Rape culture.

[cja]

I think that was less about rape culture and more about causing division. The fact that if was covered up caused more anger. People uniting because of a common enemy. Who benefits from rape culture? People that seek division.

 

I personally have benefited immensely and am even grateful for the understanding and knowledge I have gained from reading about the cultural components of sexism that provide cover for perpetrators of sexual and other violence against women by focussing on blaming or shaming women and minimization of the violence (shortened for convenience probably to "rape culture"). So I have gained and I do not want a greater divide between genders.

 

Also I'm not sure why it is assumed that feminism or discussing rape culture to increase awareness of cultural attitudes that shield perpetrators necessarily divides the genders. Plenty of women perpetuate the cultural aspects of rape culture. And, at least in the west, plenty of men recognize there are cultural elements that perpetuate violence against women and stand against them. So it's not actually dividing along gender lines. So some women and men unite against the "common enemy" of cultural attitudes and beliefs that perpetuate violence against women.

 

Just from looking at articles on the cologne attacks, minimization and victim blaming abound by both genders (cologne mayor is female).

 

(About the initial cologne descriptors of the attacks)

Even the relatively dry language of the police report issued this week — summarizing at least 90 complaints of sexual harassment — makes the situation graphically clear. It refers over and over to victims surrounded by men and “groped in intimate area,” “grabbed by breasts and bottoms,” or "fingers inserted in vagina.”

 

(Mayors response)

BERLIN — The mayor of Cologne has spurred a debate by suggesting that women can protect themselves from men on the streets by keeping them more than an arm’s length away.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Rape / rape culture deniers and apologists:

 

Why is RAPE a thing that happens to about 20% of women, and a thing that women need to take into consideration as we go about our daily lives, if it is not endemic in our culture?

[joystickd]

I personally have benefited immensely and am even grateful for the understanding and knowledge I have gained from reading about the cultural components of sexism that provide cover for perpetrators of sexual and other violence against women by focussing on blaming or shaming women and minimization of the violence (shortened for convenience probably to "rape culture"). So I have gained and I do not want a greater divide between genders.

 

Also I'm not sure why it is assumed that feminism or discussing rape culture to increase awareness of cultural attitudes that shield perpetrators necessarily divides the genders. Plenty of women perpetuate the cultural aspects of rape culture. And, at least in the west, plenty of men recognize there are cultural elements that perpetuate violence against women and stand against them. So it's not actually dividing along gender lines. So some women and men unite against the "common enemy" of cultural attitudes and beliefs that perpetuate violence against women.

 

Just from looking at articles on the cologne attacks, minimization and victim blaming abound by both genders (cologne mayor is female).

 

(About the initial cologne descriptors of the attacks)

Even the relatively dry language of the police report issued this week — summarizing at least 90 complaints of sexual harassment — makes the situation graphically clear. It refers over and over to victims surrounded by men and “groped in intimate area,” “grabbed by breasts and bottoms,” or "fingers inserted in vagina.”

 

(Mayors response)

BERLIN — The mayor of Cologne has spurred a debate by suggesting that women can protect themselves from men on the streets by keeping them more than an arm’s length away.

There are a few reasons why I see "rape culture" as a problem. The problem with this thread is the women that have issues because men didn't agree with them. These same men saw rape as wrong and want men punished to the full extent of the law. How can these men be rape deniers when they are willing to punish them to the full extent of the law?

 

Rape culture trivializes rape. It encourages women to equate things with rape that aren't rape. Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuLXTOS3r5s

Is this rape culture? According to women like the ones on here it is rape culture. The funny things is they would fail to listen to the lyrics or know the history behind the song because if they did it would be realized its a way to insult another man. The question then becomes are you really into handling the issue of rape. When women seek things like this out it opens the door for more false accusations. Also a perpetrator now has a way to get out of being accountable for rape. A rapist can now say that they are also a victim because of songs, movies, etc that formed his beliefs about rape instead of actually taking some responsibility for his actions. Now potentially there could be more rapes due to the fact they don't have to take responsibility for it.

 

Another issue is that in a way it goes against feminism. For a long time I saw it as empowering women and equality. Now it seems to be about promoting victimhood. Even on here some of the women fully refuse to engage in a debate but instead say they are taking the victim role saying that men are downplaying rape or being rape denier. My race even came into the debate. How is that empowering? Are you really seeking out equality? From the perspective of a man it seems like women want supremacy not equality.

 

The main reason men have a problem with feminism is that the fringe is the loudest and scariest so because of that women go along with it. Nothing will change until women are willing to work with men for equality and not associating with the extreme.

[joystickd]

When I worked as a corrections officer, there was a POS rapist on my tier. He was from my old town, and he was released a couple years ago, right back into that same old town. I often go back there, and I even saw this guy out at Walmart one night. Maybe he was the only rapist in Walmart that night, I don't know. But he was there. IMO, anything you could do to protect yourself from that POS rapist, might be wise. It is no different from how I lock my doors, I don't flash around a bunch of money in public, and I don't leave valuables in plain sight. I even have a secure safe to keep my firearms stored away. All of this to prevent myself from becoming a victim of any number of crimes. That is all people like me suggest women do, but those suggestions lead to insults being flung in my direction.

 

A rapist, like any other criminal, seeks out easy targets. Don't be one of those.

 

Why are you victim blaming? One of these wannabe feminists will have a fit! Lol

[123321]

I left my house blacked out and empty, and I was looted during a natural disaster. I can't say I liked it, and it's not my fault, but I probably could have prevented it.

[cja]

There's more unity and understanding than a defensive, surface glance would suggest:

 

That's where anti rape culture comes into play. It's not enough to just say I don't rape or directly support rape myself. Also I reiterate that I believe racism to be far worse than sexism, that's why Sojourner's truth was so clear, but there are ingrained cultural components to every "ism" and not everyone denies that.

 

Are you racist? 'No' isn't a good enough answer ? video | Opinion | The Guardian

 

"So I have a question for you: Are you “non-” or are you “anti-”?

 

Several months ago in response to Ferguson, Baltimore, the killings of Freddie Gray and Tamir Rice, my friend Katelyn put up a Facebook post breaking down the difference between non-racism and anti-racism. Most of us are non-racist. Because racism is looked upon as some moral lapse, we feel quite self-assured by simply not being racist. “I’m not a bigot. I don’t sing that ’n’ word when my favorite rap jam comes on. I didn’t vote for that guy. I’m not burning any crosses. I’m not a skinhead.”

 

“I don’t. I won’t. I’m not. I’ve never. I can’t.”

 

What you end up with is an entire moral stance, an entire code for living your life and dealing with all the injustice in the world by not doing a damn thing. That’s the great thing about “non-”: you can put it off by simply rolling over in your bed and going to sleep.

 

So why are you sitting at home and watching things unfold on TV instead of doing something about it? Because you’re a non-racist, not an anti-racist.

 

Now, do this for me: take the “c” out of racist and replace it with a “p”. “I’m not a rapist. I’m not friends with any rapist. I didn’t buy that rapist’s last album.” All these things that you’re not doing.

 

Meanwhile, people are still getting raped, and black boys are being killed. It’s not enough that you don’t do these things. Your going to bed with a clear conscience is not going to stop college students from getting assaulted. You thinking climate change is terrible is not going to stop climate change. You being so assured that you’re not anti-black, anti-[M]uslim, won’t stop the next hate crime. And it’s wonderful that you recognize how brave gay people are when they’re facing persecution. But they aren’t the ones who need to be brave. We need to get active. We need to hold people accountable. We need to accept that what hurts one of us hurts all of us. And we need to stop thinking that injustice going on in the world isn’t to an extent our fault. "

Edited January 17, 2016 by cja

[joystickd]

There's more unity and understanding than a defensive, surface glance would suggest:

 

That's where anti rape culture comes into play. It's not enough to just say I don't rape or directly support rape myself. Also I reiterate that I believe racism to be far worse than sexism, that's why Sojourner's truth was so clear, but there are ingrained cultural components to every "ism" and not everyone denies that.

 

Are you racist? 'No' isn't a good enough answer ? video | Opinion | The Guardian

 

"So I have a question for you: Are you “non-” or are you “anti-”?

 

Several months ago in response to Ferguson, Baltimore, the killings of Freddie Gray and Tamir Rice, my friend Katelyn put up a Facebook post breaking down the difference between non-racism and anti-racism. Most of us are non-racist. Because racism is looked upon as some moral lapse, we feel quite self-assured by simply not being racist. “I’m not a bigot. I don’t sing that ’n’ word when my favorite rap jam comes on. I didn’t vote for that guy. I’m not burning any crosses. I’m not a skinhead.”

 

“I don’t. I won’t. I’m not. I’ve never. I can’t.”

 

What you end up with is an entire moral stance, an entire code for living your life and dealing with all the injustice in the world by not doing a damn thing. That’s the great thing about “non-”: you can put it off by simply rolling over in your bed and going to sleep.

 

So why are you sitting at home and watching things unfold on TV instead of doing something about it? Because you’re a non-racist, not an anti-racist.

 

Now, do this for me: take the “c” out of racist and replace it with a “p”. “I’m not a rapist. I’m not friends with any rapist. I didn’t buy that rapist’s last album.” All these things that you’re not doing.

 

Meanwhile, people are still getting raped, and black boys are being killed. It’s not enough that you don’t do these things. Your going to bed with a clear conscience is not going to stop college students from getting assaulted. You thinking climate change is terrible is not going to stop climate change. You being so assured that you’re not anti-black, anti-[M]uslim, won’t stop the next hate crime. And it’s wonderful that you recognize how brave gay people are when they’re facing persecution. But they aren’t the ones who need to be brave. We need to get active. We need to hold people accountable. We need to accept that what hurts one of us hurts all of us. And we need to stop thinking that injustice going on in the world isn’t to an extent our fault. "

Lets focus on rape culture and not black people. Women on here seem to have no valid argument to defend their point but talking about black people.WTF

[123321]

Lets focus on rape culture and not black people. Women on here seem to have no valid argument to defend their point but talking about black people.WTF

 

Need a 'lame' tag beside like for the post you're replying to.

[joystickd]

Here's the deal instead of talking about my blackness address this:

 

The term “rape apologist” is the primary tool used by feminists to protect their “rape culture.” Anyone who questions feminist assumptions or pronunciations about rape is doing so out of support for rape itself. The fear of being labeled a rape apologist keeps feminism’s critics in line, but it is hypocritical. It is so powerful only because of the “patriarchal” taboo against rape that feminists deny.

 

Feminists clearly understand that their definition of rape is not “equal,” not gender-neutral, but pointing that out would hurt the effectiveness of rape as propaganda. So they don’t. They promote the “patriarchal” version and use “patriarchy” with its primeval archetypes to amplify their message that rape is male on female “patriarchal terrorism,” and furthermore that the rape of women is ubiquitous in our culture and tacitly condoned. The fact that the “patriarchy” already conditions us to see women as victims makes this an appallingly easy sell.

 

People naturally joke about topics they fear or that make them uncomfortable. Those jokes in no way promote their subject matter. Rape is one of those uncomfortable topics, but to feminists any rape joke is evidence of a vast rape conspiracy. Any common sense suggestion that women take steps to protect themselves, like they would against any other crime or misfortune, is called victim blaming and is part of the vast rape culture conspiracy. The rape culture conspiracy that all males are complicit in, like the rapists themselves, is inescapable.

And the threat is constantly expanding in feminist rhetoric. A woman is catcalled? Rape. A woman is ogled? Rape. Almost anything a man does vis a vis a woman can be construed as “rape.” All women, not just 1 in 5, are fated to a life of rape and more rape.

“Rape culture” is mass hysteria, a full-blown moral panic, complete with torches and pitchforks.

Anger goes hand in hand with the fear. Anger is the response that feminists want–a self-righteous anger. Fear is clearly useful in propaganda, but the self-righteous anger it provokes gets people to act. It gets men to enlist in wars and it gets women up in men’s faces, calling their representatives and taking to the streets in Slut Walks.

This anger is always channeled, always directed at men–not rapists, but men, another clear tell that rape culture is a propaganda exercise. Rapists commit rape, and would be the natural targets of anger. After all, except for maybe the worst radfems, no one blames men as a class for murder or theft. In a rape culture, men and their sexuality are threats to women indistinguishable from the act of rape. Men and maleness are the enemies of feminism and so they are demonized as a class by rape culture.

 

 

The point I've been making:

 

 

Through their rape culture rhetoric, feminists are the ones who normalize rape. All men are rapists, even nice guys, and all women are victims. This is actually counterproductive to helping real victims because it minimizes their experience as “normal.” If the rapist is just a “nice guy” who made a mistake, a woman might feel conflicted about reporting an actual rape (as opposed to an accusation based on regret or intoxicated consent). If feminists actually portrayed rapists correctly as a small number of repeat-offending sociopaths, who would do it again to other women, more rapes would be reported and more rapists brought to justice.

^

I think this makes more sense than the phantom menace of rape culture.

 

 

 

The main purpose of feminism now is:

 

 

If feminism were really a movement to smash the “patriarchy” and achieve equality between the sexes, we would have seen the following actions regarding rape after 50+ years of the movement:

 

1. Gender-neutral definition of rape that does not specify penetration used in research.
   
2. No suppression of the idea that women can rape (they can do anything a man can do after all), leading to more men reporting the crime and more women arrested and convicted.
   
3. Recognition that when two people are both drunk beyond a certain point, one shouldn’t be considered the rapist automatically just because of their gender.
   
4. Rape advocates pushing for laws, programs and funding to help all victims of rape equally regardless of gender.
   

We have not and never will see those things in our society as a result of feminism. They will only come about as the result of anti-feminism.

However, if feminism were an ideology of misandry, of fighting to control and benefit from sexism rather than eliminate it, if feminism were a parasite in a symbiotic relationship with its host the “patriarchy,” what would we see? Exactly what we are seeing now: rape and its victims cynically exploited for “rape culture” propaganda.

 

 

 

 

Address all this instead of talking about my Blackness.

[joystickd]

The words above are not mine. Hope the wannabe feminists are happy now. I posted here because the closed minded women are not open to new ideas that go against the "equality" that they want to feed the public. The propaganda that is supposedly equality isn't. It's just a way to get special privileges and destroy masculinity.

[ufo8mycat]

Lets focus on rape culture and not black people. Women on here seem to have no valid argument to defend their point but talking about black people.WTF

 

Many valid arguments have been presented. You choose to invalidate them. Just because you don't experience something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Taramere]

People naturally joke about topics they fear or that make them uncomfortable. Those jokes in no way promote their subject matter. Rape is one of those uncomfortable topics, but to feminists any rape joke is evidence of a vast rape conspiracy.

 

The problem isn't necessarily that women or feminists think there is a vast rape conspiracy. I think a frequent concern is that rapists tend to believe that their behaviour is normal. Something "all men do or would do if they could get away with it".

 

The word "rape" is very loaded. A lot of studies out there suggest that while few men are likely to report - even in anonymous studies - "I would rape if I could get away with it", a higher number (though still a minority) will admit that they would force a woman into sex if they could get away with it. The study referenced here says 31% of the sample college students polled

 

The ugly truth about sexual assault: More men admit to it if you don?t call it rape - Salon.com

 

...reported that they would force a woman into sex if they could get away with it. Which I find quite staggering. I don't know what was going on there, or if it's a figure that is supported by other studies, since it's certainly far higher than I would have thought....but if you polled people questions about whether they would steal or kill if they knew they were going to get away with it, no doubt the results wouldn't be too comforting either.

 

But anyway that's 31% of those guys polled saying "if I thought I could get away with it, I would force a woman into sex..." and appearing not to recognise that rape and forcing somebody into sex are the same thing. The "if there were no consequences" part was, I suspect, problematic in that study. Some of those polled might argue that they took that to mean "no consequences in terms of the woman suffering from long term trauma/possible mental or sexual health problems". The article looks at that possibility I think (eg - some men thinking that women are conditioned into saying no when they mean yes). Otherwise, the study suggests to me that it's only the application of a word associated with arrests, criminal trials and possible prison time that makes those "I would do it" students understand that rape is a wrong thing to do.

 

I think that what the term "rape culture" refers to is an undermining of the notion that rape is all that serious an offence. When a guy is thinking along the lines of "yeah I would do it if I could get away with it" he probably thinks most other men would feel the same way. And will perhaps perceive rape jokes as a sign of that. A kind of nudge nudge, wink wink "it's perfectly normal...we would all do it if we could get away with it, mate."

Edited January 18, 2016 by Taramere

[joystickd]

The problem isn't necessarily that women or feminists think there is a vast rape conspiracy. I think a frequent concern is that rapists tend to believe that their behaviour is normal. Something "all men do or would do if they could get away with it".

 

The word "rape" is very loaded. A lot of studies out there suggest that while few men are likely to report - even in anonymous studies - "I would rape if I could get away with it", a higher number (though still a minority) will admit that they would force a woman into sex if they could get away with it. The study referenced here says 31% of the sample college students polled

 

The ugly truth about sexual assault: More men admit to it if you don?t call it rape - Salon.com

 

...reported that they would force a woman into sex if they could get away with it. Which I find quite staggering. I don't know what was going on there, or if it's a figure that is supported by other studies, since it's certainly far higher than I would have thought....but if you polled people questions about whether they would steal or kill if they knew they were going to get away with it, no doubt the results wouldn't be too comforting either.

 

But anyway that's 31% of those guys polled saying "if I thought I could get away with it, I would force a woman into sex..." and appearing not to recognise that rape and forcing somebody into sex are the same thing. The "if there were no consequences" part was, I suspect, problematic in that study. Some of those polled might argue that they took that to mean "no consequences in terms of the woman suffering from long term trauma/possible mental or sexual health problems". The article looks at that possibility I think (eg - some men thinking that women are conditioned into saying no when they mean yes). Otherwise, the study suggests to me that it's only the application of a word associated with arrests, criminal trials and possible prison time that makes those "I would do it" students understand that rape is a wrong thing to do.

 

I think that what the term "rape culture" refers to is an undermining of the notion that rape is all that serious an offence. When a guy is thinking along the lines of "yeah I would do it if I could get away with it" he probably thinks most other men would feel the same way. And will perhaps perceive rape jokes as a sign of that. A kind of nudge nudge, wink wink "it's perfectly normal...we would all do it if we could get away with it, mate."

No man thinks it's normal and honestly for that to even happen women would have to be on board with it. Like I've said before in cases a more male jurors were the thing to have for a long time because women on a jury see rape victim as asking for it or any of the excuses.

 

Rape study shows female dominated juries don?t convict | Irish Examiner

 

There are many studies to support this. The ugly truth is feminist elite want to make this a man issue but women normalize rape just like the men they believe to do it.

[joystickd]

Interesting conversation

[turnera]

Nearly one in three rape victims in India is under the age of 18. One in 10 are under 14. Every 20 minutes in India, a woman is raped.

 

And yet India only ranks third for the number of rapes reported each year. What country ranks first? The United States. In India, a country of over 1.2 billion people, 24,206 rapes were reported in 2011. The same year in the United States, a nation of 300 million, 83,425 rapes were reported. In the United States, every 6.2 minutes a woman is raped.

Is India the Rape Capital of the World? | MORE Magazine

[joystickd]

Is India the Rape Capital of the World? | MORE Magazine

 

So every 6 minutes and 12 seconds a woman is raped? How is that relevant to the discussion of rape culture?

[hotgurl]

I don't deny that rape culture exists in some places, like college campuses for example. How do we fix that? Women should take self defense classes? I'm all for it.

 

Or maybe teach guys not to rape women.

[joystickd]

Or maybe teach guys not to rape women.

If you were actually aware of the world around you they actually do. This is the problem with some people these days. Using common sense is victim blaming. How is crime prevention victim blaming? If that was the case then ADT makes money off of victim blaming. Are you women gonna get up in arms about the victim blaming that ADT does?

[hotgurl]

I didn't go out looking at my HS boyfriend or friend in college as a potential rapist. They didn't think what they were doing was wrong, either. The culture told them it was ok to push past a girl's very clear "no" and keep trying for sex, and to touch a girl who is drunk sexually (even if she is vomiting at the moment). They really didn't see anything wrong with it. Boys being boys. The culture accepted these behaviors, and that's why it is being called a rape culture. We need to teach young men that these things are not consent, and are in fact sexual assault---because the culture taught them otherwise.

 

I so agree with this. In High school especially but in college as well, boys always pushed the boundaries. Always. Even when you said no. It was come on it will feel good etc.... I had the same experience where a boyfriend was really aggressive, WE too were interrupted by parents before it went to far.

[joystickd]

I so agree with this. In High school especially but in college as well, boys always pushed the boundaries. Always. Even when you said no. It was come on it will feel good etc.... I had the same experience where a boyfriend was really aggressive, WE too were interrupted by parents before it went to far.

Like I said if you were aware of the world around you that it is taught but women like you all ignore it because it's goes against the struggle.

[hotgurl]

So what are you saying, that if I am dating a guy I should never be only with him or physical with him unless I want sex.

 

Especially is high school when you are dealing with young kids who are virgins, they need to respect each other boundaries. A no should be respected.

[joystickd]

So what are you saying, that if I am dating a guy I should never be only with him or physical with him unless I want sex.

 

Especially is high school when you are dealing with young kids who are virgins, they need to respect each other boundaries. A no should be respected.

If actually read these posts you would know men actually respect a no. Yes I would suggest you wouldn't get a certain level of physical unless you wanted sex. That's not passing the blame on anyone that is just common sense.

 

Think about your response before typing it on here and answer this:

If you were actually aware of the world around you they actually do. This is the problem with some people these days. Using common sense is victim blaming. How is crime prevention victim blaming? If that was the case then ADT makes money off of victim blaming. Are you women gonna get up in arms about the victim blaming that ADT does?

Address that. From the perspective of a man, women want special treatment and not have to be accountable for their actions even if it leads to problems for them. How is that equality? How is it equality when you attack men then beg for men to protect you from rape culture and accountability like you are the damsel in distress archetype?

[hotgurl]

If actually read these posts you would know men actually respect a no. Yes I would suggest you wouldn't get a certain level of physical unless you wanted sex. That's not passing the blame on anyone that is just common sense.

 

Think about your response before typing it on here and answer this:

 

Address that. From the perspective of a man, women want special treatment and not have to be accountable for their actions even if it leads to problems for them. How is that equality? How is it equality when you attack men then beg for men to protect you from rape culture and accountability like you are the damsel in distress archetype?

 

well I am only to page 5, it is a long thread. And I disagree that women want special treatment.

[joystickd]

well I am only to page 5, it is a long thread. And I disagree that women want special treatment.

If you are a woman seeing using common sense as victim blaming then you want special treatment.

[turnera]

If you were actually aware of the world around you they actually do.

Not necessarily.

it was ultimately determined that, while as a society we make an effort to teach girls methods to avoid getting raped, we ironically do not teach boys not to rape. As a mother of a son, I have recently given this notion great thought. As it relates to acting to minimize the risk of sexual assault, parents and safety educators know to teach girls about the buddy system, to watch what they wear and the dangers of getting drunk or high, but what do we teach boys?

 

The answer is “not much.” However, overwhelmingly, it is our sons who commit rape. In instances in which a female was the rape victim, a man was the perpetrator 98% (link is external) of the time. For male rape victims, a man was the perpetrator in 93% (link is external) of the instances.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-new-teen-age/201501/teaching-our-sons-not-rape