Rape culture.

[Haydn]

The most loathsome, vile disgusting act anybody could ever perpetrate on another human being that cannot ever be justified.

 

Weak men rape. Weak men make excuses for weak men because they are weak themselves.

 

End of.

[loveweary11]

Losangelina's post is quite balanced and I think she's right.

 

Rape, like murder, is common between people who know each other already.

 

I was looking at the first post and first page. Has any guy here ever had a woman feel threatened in his presence or had her say "no means no" or whatever when sex is starting??

 

I feel like it's an imaginary problem.

 

No woman is going to stop sex and say no if you've initiated it correctly.

 

I've never, in my entire life, asked for "consent" to have sex. It's just not like that in real life.

 

 

 

I think I had better be crystal clear here.

 

I'm referring back to then first page where men fear a "rape culture".

 

It's my experience that this rape culture is imaginary in real life.

[Rejected Rosebud]

 

I'm referring back to then first page where men fear a "rape culture".

 

It's my experience that this rape culture is imaginary in real life.

It might be imaginary in YOUR real life, but it's not imaginary in the lives of women. That doesn't mean that you or anybody else that women choose to have sex with are rapists, even if the consent was implied.

 

Women are the ones who have something to fear from what we call rape culture. Not men - except those who fear being 100% accountable for anything they do sexually with another person, particularly a woman in this conversation.

 

As long as a discussion like this one keeps going back to "if she goes in a dark alley dressed like a skank - whatever," the point of rape culture is proven.

 

Sure, SHE did put herself in harm's way and used terrible judgement, was stupid, etc. The fact that a sexual crime committed by a man is what might happen to her is a different issue.

 

There shouldn't be a separate category of violent crime that women can "ask for" from men. As long as there is -

[Woggle]

I am full agreement that men who rape are the ones who should be held accountable and women should be free to walk wherever they want without fear of being raped. To me it is more misandrist to suggest that women need to police themselves because men can't be trusted.

 

That being said what some extremists want to do especially on some campuses is blur the line between sex and rape so much that any man can be considered a rapist. I have actually read some views online that say if a man has consensual sex with a woman where she says yes the entire way if she regrets it the next day for whatever reason or she is mad at him for whatever reason that it should be considered rape. Does that not trivialize actual rape victims?

[losangelena]

I am full agreement that men who rape are the ones who should be held accountable and women should be free to walk wherever they want without fear of being raped. To me it is more misandrist to suggest that women need to police themselves because men can't be trusted.

 

That being said what some extremists want to do especially on some campuses is blur the line between sex and rape so much that any man can be considered a rapist. I have actually read some views online that say if a man has consensual sex with a woman where she says yes the entire way if she regrets it the next day for whatever reason or she is mad at him for whatever reason that it should be considered rape. Does that not trivialize actual rape victims?

 

Yes, of course. Accusing someone of rape when they didn't actually rape you should have some social/legal ramifications as well.

 

I think this is another reason why rape is such a messy issue, many-headed hydra. A woman who's blamed for being raped and one who makes false accusations are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[loveweary11]

One thing that might be a good strategy for guys worried about the rape culture is to have sex in a normal fashion.

 

Flirt a lot, get her going, get her to jump *you*.

 

Makes for much better sex too...

 

You should never have to force a sex agenda on women at all... they should want it as much as you do.

 

Can't be rape if they insigated it.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Pretty much all of this rape culture nonsense trivializes the real victims of rape.

YOU are trivializing rape, and you seem quite gleeful about doing it. There are victims of rape participating in this discussion who don't agree with you that this is "nonsense," you might think twice about being so dismissive.

 

What do you think about the link I posted pages ago about how this guy (who you probably follow, you sound pretty much exactly the same as him) called "Roosh" talks about making rape completely legal if done on private property? I'd like to hear your defense of this.

[Rejected Rosebud]

One thing that might be a good strategy for guys worried about the rape culture is to have sex in a normal fashion.

 

Flirt a lot, get her going, get her to jump *you*.

 

Makes for much better sex too...

 

You should never have to force a sex agenda on women at all... they should want it as much as you do.

I don't think this is in the cards for these guys, they are still hoping to be able to do whatever because she "asked for it" by wearing a sleazy outfit, leaving her drink unguarded, being drunk at a party, or making out with a guy.

[Radu]

The facts don't support your position.

 

Rape Health Information - Causes, Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment - NY Times Health

 

"Nearly half" of the assailants know their victims, at least casually; that means most are strangers to the victims. The majority of rapes ("80-90%") go unreported. Not one of the suggestions to protect against rape mentions wearing different clothes or picking a different type of guy to hang out with.

 

One out of three women will be sexually assaulted. That's 33.3% of women.

 

According to MADD, drunk drivers killed 9,878 people in 2011; according to the FBI, in that same year the number of reported rapes was 83,425.

 

8.5 times more people are raped than are killed by drunk drivers and yet no one questions whether or not drunk driving is an issue that needs to be addressed. More importantly, no one suggests that the victims of drunk drivers shouldn't have been on the road at that hour or should have taken better precautions so as to NOT end up a victim.

 

 

"Rape culture", indeed.

 

Nowhere did i mention weather rapist knows victim or not, that was completely attributed to me.

Nor do i get the comparison of rape with murder (accidental or not); with rape at least the victim remains alive and has a chance at rebuilding life, murder is pretty final for the victim.

 

I fail to see at which point we can have a discussion about what can the victim do to minimize the chances of being raped without resorting to emotion (where such minimization can happen obviously).

Afterall, following your own comparison, we have these discussions when it comes to murder.

 

PS: Also, sexual assault =/= rape.

Also, rape as defined by the standards of the rape culture (prevalent in US/UK), excludes men who have been raped, unless they were sodomized, and even then it's debatable if they were sodomized by a woman. A horrible misscarriage of justice.

And finally, i do not believe that 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 statistic.

I believe the # is high, but the way sexual assault is defined and how it's moved towards rape, you would think that despite the advances (to not call it power) that feminists have achieved in the past 3-4 decades, men overnight decided to abuse women, right now.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Radu

[Radu]

One thing that might be a good strategy for guys worried about the rape culture is to have sex in a normal fashion.

 

Flirt a lot, get her going, get her to jump *you*.

 

Makes for much better sex too...

 

You should never have to force a sex agenda on women at all... they should want it as much as you do.

 

Can't be rape if they insigated it.

 

And if she says it was, who is going to be believed ?

[loveweary11]

And if she says it was, who is going to be believed ?

 

TBH, it's my opinion you shouldn't have had sex with someone like that in the first place.

 

When does that even happen?

 

I can't even think of a time in my life there has ever been even a thought of that crossing anyone's mind.

 

Women just don't act like that. They take rape seriously. They don't screw around with it. (in the states. only had sex in other countries a couple times)

 

If you're to the point of having consensual sex with someone, you already know them well enough, or it's a hook up.

 

I guess it comes down to personality. I've nevet, in my whole life had a girl wake up from sex mad. Why would that ever happen unless you treated her poorly?

 

This stuff just doesn't happen in real life...

[Radu]

 

Do I think rape is horrible? Yes. Do I think there are sometimes things a woman can do to try and avoid being raped? Yes. Feminists call it victim blaming when someone tries to help another person avoid a bad situation. Me, I know better than to walk down dangerous streets alone at night. I know better than to get blackout drunk around people I don't know. I know to watch my drink when I go to the bar, because it is possible for someone to slip something in another person's drink. I know that the police will not protect me, so I carry a weapon at all times. I try to do what I can to protect myself and those I care about from harm. For some reason, suggesting that a woman do the same is victim blaming. If one woman decides to carry some pepper spray with her and is able to ward off an attacker as a result, I will live with the title victim blamer.

 

Despite all precautions, sometimes bad things still happen. Sometimes there really is nothing we can do to avoid them. Situations like that do occur, but that is no reason to pretend we have no power over our lives and what happens to us.

 

With that said, I'm done here. I have long learned that trying to debate a feminist issue is a waste of breath. I'm gonna go have sex with my GF. Maybe I'll even get a consent form. Merry Christmas.

 

To the bolded.

In Europe (but especially in Eastern Europe and even Italy), leaving your drink out in the open on the train can result in getting mickey finned and having your stuff stolen.

Weather you are a guy or not, or how big you are, it does not matter.

Most of the victims tend to be men though.

I have yet to hear anyone get shamed for suggesting they be less dumb.

Nor did i have yet to hear anyone say that they deserve it, and the criminals should go unpunished.

 

But for some reason, we cannot apply the same standard of punishing the crime and looking at it from a neutral perspective to rape.

Why ?

[Radu]

TBH, it's my opinion you shouldn't have had sex with someone like that in the first place.

 

When does that even happen?

 

I can't even think of a time in my life there has ever been even a thought of that crossing anyone's mind.

 

Women just don't act like that. They take rape seriously. They don't screw around with it. (in the states. only had sex in other countries a couple times)

 

If you're to the point of having consensual sex with someone, you already know them well enough, or it's a hook up.

 

I guess it comes down to personality. I've nevet, in my whole life had a girl wake up from sex mad. Why would that ever happen unless you treated her poorly?

 

This stuff just doesn't happen in real life...

 

It does happen.

If it hasn't happened to you, it does not mean it hasn't happened.

 

I never had it happen to me, but i know someone who got falsely accused (it was for money and the one behind it was her dad).

 

My point is that once the accusation flies, and before you are judged in a court of law, you are judged publicly, in the community.

And because false rape accusations are little acknowledged, you are already sentenced.

If you care about your life, about your future, you have already gotten a huge hit against your life.

[loveweary11]

What Radu and Enigma32 both said is important too.

 

An ounce of prevention...

 

Rape can be the least of a woman's concerns in situations like the bolded.

 

Rape may happen just before murder in those cases, or possible just murder.

 

The same common sense preventions work for men, for women, for rape and for murder in those situations.

 

None of that "i can wear what I want and walk in any neighborhood" bs should apply, because you might end up dead as well taking those security risks.

[Rejected Rosebud]

What Radu and Enigma32 both said is important too.

 

An ounce of prevention...

 

Rape can be the least of a woman's concerns in situations like the bolded.

 

 

None of that "i can wear what I want and walk in any neighborhood" bs should apply, because you might end up dead as well taking those security risks.

 

{sigh} WHY is the point so hard for you to understand? This is NOT what women wear or where we go or how much we drink. It's about the specific crime of rape. It's about those who PERPETRATE the crime and what drives the crime. Whatever the victims do or don't do is not relevant to this discussion. Anyway, I give up. I agree with Haydn above. Apologists, deniers and defenders of rape are just weak and sad.

[BettyDraper]

Pretty much all of this rape culture nonsense trivializes the real victims of rape. We now have women saying they have been verbally raped thanks to feminists cooking up this rape culture crap. Verbally raped? GTFO.

 

Lucky for us, feminists are letting us know the classic song, "Baby, it's Cold Outside" is rape culture. They are suggesting it be reworded.

 

I had sex with my GF and did not ask for consent. According to the rape culture feminists, I am now a rapist, and so is pretty much every other guy out there who has ever gotten laid.

 

Why can't the feminists who hate that song simply not listen to it?

 

I don't understand the notion that if some people are offended by something, it should be changed or completely done away with. I once posted a quote by Eminem on my Facebook page. I was reamed out by some of my Facebook friends because they hated Eminem's misogynistic lyrics. I responded by telling them that I was not required to hate Eminem's music just because they did.

 

I think "Baby, It's Cold Outside" is very suggestive and cute. The sex is only implied; we don't even know if the man is going to have sleep with the woman. For all we know, he could have just let her sleep over because of the weather!

 

My husband has never explicitly asked if we could have sex. I suppose I'm married to a rapist then?

Edited January 3, 2016 by BettyDraper

[joystickd]

The fringe feminists won in terms of rape culture. It's creating this divide on here. The dialogue needs to be men and women coming together to find solutions. I will admit I'm anti feminism but there are reasons that are for another thread. My whole problem with this rape culture is the attack on men. Women will say that's not what's happening but that's what's happening. The very moment you accept this idea then you look at men differently. It's like looking at a person from the Middle East differently because of terrorism. Now because of the actions of a few everyone in a group gets punished. Where is the justice in that? All it does is create anger and animosity that hurts the cause.

 

The other crazy thing is the women that mention stats and upon looking at them its a study created by a feminist. The results are skewed. Where's the objextivity in that. Then the statement is made basically men can't get raped. There goes equality right there.

 

There comes a time when women need to have good sense and realize if feminism was really about helping you then it would open the dialogue with men. It would involve men also. It would teach skills and empower not use vulnerability as an excuse but to build strength at the same time. You can never be equal if when something happens you whine about being smaller. There are small men out in the world. Some smaller than a lot of women but they don't whine about it. They figure out how to make it an asset instead of a liability

[Woggle]

Basically the extreme feminists treat all men the way Trump treats all Muslims or immigrants.

[joystickd]

Basically the extreme feminists treat all men the way Trump treats all Muslims or immigrants.

Yeah that is the way I see it. When you have women that are "feminists" that make statements like these: "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." Sally Miller Gearhart, The Future – If There Is One – Is Female

 

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." Sheila Cronin, leader of the National Organization of Women

 

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." Andrea Dworkin

 

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression."Sheila Jeffrys

 

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." Catherine Comins

 

"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women…he can sexually molest his daughters… The vast majority of men in the world do one more more of the above." Marilyn French

 

It kinds of makes the movement be seen as man hating instead of being about equality.

[turnera]

Oh please. I just read a thread where a man describes his wife, on a business trip, who realizes a man has broken into her hotel room and is about to rape her, so she just lies there and lets him do it, to get it over with and stay alive. And this man has the disgusting balls to say 'why didn't she just DO something to avoid it? How could she just lie there?' Her HUSBAND!

[Popsicle]

Just watched "India's Daughter" - the docu that was BANNED in India about Jyoti Singh who was gang raped and left to die. In the docu they give great examples of what people who live in a rape culture look and think like. They blame the woman.

 

India's Daughter | Documentary about Gang Rape in India | PBS

[123321]

You don't learn about a movement through cherry picking quotes in a search set up to prove your point (I'm sure that you put in "worst feminist quotes"!!!! "man hating feminists!!!!" or something like that).

 

There are some neighborhoods that are considered "safe" in my city. Yet no woman feels comfortable walking through them alone late at night. You'll find men walking around my city alone everywhere at night. Why do you think that is?

 

We carry Glocks.

[cja]

Seriously this thread exemplifies the reality of a persistent rape culture. I can't say it better than Louis CK, one of many guys who do get it. At least it's no loner a hopeless situation: "In his new HBO special, comedian Louis C.K. articulates how women have been and continue to be alarmingly at risk of violence from men. “The courage it takes for a woman to say yes [to a date with a man] is beyond anything I can imagine. A woman saying yes to a date with a man is literally insane, and ill-advised,” he says (see video at right). “How do women still go out with guys, when you consider the fact that there is no greater threat to women than men? We’re the number one threat! To women! Globally and historically, we’re the number one cause of injury and mayhem to women. We’re the worst thing that ever happens to them!”

 

He goes on to make an apt analogy: “If you’re a guy, imagine you could only date a half-bear-half-lion. ‘Oh, I hope this one’s nice! I hope he doesn’t do what he’s going to do.’”

 

- See more at: Louis C.K. Jokes That Women Are Courageous to Date Men?Sadly, He's Right

[joystickd]

The way I see this now after spending time thinking about it is this. Feminism needs a villain and rape culture is the new villain. The problem with that is it not a clear cut villian like Hitler, Pharaoh, or ISIS. It's an idea and the problem is that when you have something like that all men end up being the villain. Feminism in general has no villain and essentially has to create on which ends up being a sort of phantom menace. No actual person or group of people that are creating a problem with women. Where's the men that actually perpetuate rape culture? I don't mean the men that say things like on this thread but the clear cut people that support rape?

 

That's the problem with feminism is that it has become a create or pull out of your a$$ a villain to unite women against the evils of the phantom patriarchy. Now you have women that hate men that would help their cause.

[Woggle]

I think in many cases patriarchy is just another word for men in general when some feminists say it.