Brown Fat

[Robert Z]

I just heard about "brown fat" and some very interesting, recent new findings that could help with weight loss. It could be as simple as turning down the thermostat.

 

Further, recent studies using positron emission tomography scanning of adult humans have shown that it is still present in adults in the upper chest and neck (especially paravertebrally). The remaining deposits become more visible (increasing tracer uptake, that is, more metabolically active) with cold exposure, and less visible if an adrenergic beta blocker is given before the scan. The recent study could lead to a new method of weight loss, since brown fat takes calories from normal fat and burns it. Scientists were able to stimulate brown fat growth in mice, but human trials have not yet begun.[6][7][8][9] However, recently published results from study of mouse models demonstrate that cold exposure promotes atherosclerotic plaque growth and instability from activation of brown fat.[10] It should be noted that the article describes mice subjected to sustained low temperatures of 4°C for 8 weeks, which may cause a stress condition that shows rapid forced change rather than a safe acclimatisation that can be used to understand the growth of brown fat in adult humans during modest but comfortable reductions of ambient temperature by just 5 to 10 °C. Long term studies of adult humans are needed to establish a balance of benefit and risk, in combination with historical research of living conditions of recent human generations prior to the current increase of poor health related to excessive accumulation of white fat. Pharmacological approaches using β3-adrenoceptor agonists have been shown to enhance glucose metabolic activity of brown adipose tissue in rodents.[11][12][13]

 

 

In rare cases, brown fat continues to grow, rather than involuting; this leads to a tumour known as a hibernoma.

 

 

Wiki "Brown Fat"

Edited December 25, 2015 by Robert Z

[angel.eyes]

I just heard about "brown fat" and some very interesting, recent new findings that could help with weight loss. It could be as simple as turning down the thermostat.

 

The ambient temperature where those rats were kept for eight weeks was 4°C (i.e.. 39°F). Assuming this finding could be replicated in humans (and it hasn't), good luck finding humans who would be willing to live with minimal clothing at 39° for any sustained period of time! Realistically, how practical would this be when we can't even get people to adhere to the basics--e.g. stop overeating or stop smoking?

[losangelena]

Welp, I recently read that a temp of 64F has an effect as well. Probably not AS great as 39F, but maybe worth trying.

 

Incidentally, I notice that when it's cold in my house (we don't have central heat) that I'm hungrier, so maybe I'm burning more calories while shivering, but who actually knows.

[OldRover]

If this is for weight loss, I've got a much better solution that ALWAYS works.

 

Loosing weight is about TWO things only.

 

The amount you eat (Intake)

 

And the amount you exercise (Outgo)

 

If you balance them, you won't gain... if you have more exercise and less food you WILL loose weight.

 

The vast majority of overweight people just eat to much and are lazy.

[Robert Z]

Welp, I recently read that a temp of 64F has an effect as well. Probably not AS great as 39F, but maybe worth trying.

 

 

Yes, it says right in the quote that I posted [guess it was hard for some people here to see] that they need to explore more comfortable temperature ranges for humans.

 

ncidentally, I notice that when it's cold in my house (we don't have central heat) that I'm hungrier, so maybe I'm burning more calories while shivering, but who actually knows.

 

I don't think there is any question that cold temperatures demand more energy from us. But here we are talking about brown fat actually burning white fat due to activation by low temps, and not just raw energy demand. It appears to be an entirely new [new to us] mechanism for burning fat.

[alphamale]

dude i'm not giving up my gravy

[Robert Z]

If this is for weight loss, I've got a much better solution that ALWAYS works.

 

Loosing weight is about TWO things only.

 

The amount you eat (Intake)

 

And the amount you exercise (Outgo)

 

If you balance them, you won't gain... if you have more exercise and less food you WILL loose weight.

 

The vast majority of overweight people just eat to much and are lazy.

 

 

Sure, I can tell you all about it. I lost 70 pounds 4 years ago and have kept it off. But how efficiently we burn fat is a another matter entirely. How hard is it to lose weight? Our bodies sabotage our efforts at every step by trying to maintain fat. It isn't as simple as you would like to think.

[alphamale]

The vast majority of overweight people just eat to much and are lazy.

thats a deadly combo OR

[Robert Z]

For example, I can jump on the elliptical and go like a bat out of hell for an hour. Unfortunately, for the last 30 minutes I'm burning fat AND muscle. Burning muscle is bad and I would undermine my effort to reduce my percent body fat.

 

 

You can also starve yourself and burn muscle, not fat. So it isn't as simple as energy in and energy out. What was the source of that energy output?

[losangelena]

Yes, it says right in the quote that I posted [guess it was hard for some people here to see] that they need to explore more comfortable temperature ranges for humans.

 

 

 

I don't think there is any question that cold temperatures demand more energy from us. But here we are talking about brown fat actually burning white fat due to activation by low temps, and not just raw energy demand. It appears to be an entirely new [new to us] mechanism for burning fat.

 

Oops sorry, missed that.

[Robert Z]

Oops sorry, missed that.

 

 

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you. As you mentioned, more moderate temperatures might be effective. And it sounds like there could be a trigger mechanism to activate the brown fat. So perhaps short but frequent exposures would have an effect. It sounds like there is a lot that we don't know yet.

 

It got my attention because it seems to be an entirely new mechanism for burning fat.

[angel.eyes]

Yes, it says right in the quote that I posted [guess it was hard for some people here to see] that they need to explore more comfortable temperature ranges for humans.

 

Correct. Currently, there are no well-designed human studies that demonstrate that moderate drops in ambient temperature result in:

• Weight loss
  
• Preferential activation of brown fat
  

 

I don't think there is any question that cold temperatures demand more energy from us. But here we are talking about brown fat actually burning white fat due to activation by low temps, and not just raw energy demand. It appears to be an entirely new [new to us] mechanism for burning fat.

Brown fat has been studied since at least the early 1970's. Many factors (e.g. diet, sleep, exercise, genetics) are felt to impact brown fat distribution and its preferential activation in humans.

[losangelena]

Sure, I can tell you all about it. I lost 70 pounds 4 years ago and have kept it off. But how efficiently we burn fat is a another matter entirely. How hard is it to lose weight? Our bodies sabotage our efforts at every step by trying to maintain fat. It isn't as simple as you would like to think.

 

Having lost over 150 pounds, I agree with that last statement.

[lollipopspot]

The ambient temperature where those rats were kept for eight weeks was 4°C (i.e.. 39°F). Assuming this finding could be replicated in humans (and it hasn't), good luck finding humans who would be willing to live with minimal clothing at 39° for any sustained period of time! Realistically, how practical would this be when we can't even get people to adhere to the basics--e.g. stop overeating or stop smoking?

 

Poor mice. Humans need to experiment on themselves instead rather than finding some unwilling victim. It's not hard to figure out what to do to lose weight. Whether humans have the will to do it is another matter, which is fine, but leave the animals alone.

[OldRover]

Sure, I can tell you all about it. I lost 70 pounds 4 years ago and have kept it off. But how efficiently we burn fat is a another matter entirely. How hard is it to lose weight? Our bodies sabotage our efforts at every step by trying to maintain fat. It isn't as simple as you would like to think.

 

Robert,

 

Good points.

 

Our whole society is programed to make people fat, so one needs to recognize that. Everytime you go to eat at a friends, they offer you seconds, thirds, dessert, another drink.... You even see that as kids... gotten "eat up". TV ads tell you to eat, drink, snack, etc. Restaurants do more to advertise quantity than quality... and most restaurants serve WAY too much for a meal.

 

We need a little bit of common sense (which very few fat people have). The quality of food IS important, too, and not hard to get. Harder if you eat out a lot, but there's LOTs of things one can do.... share a meal with their SO, and if still need a bit more, split a salad of veggy. Never ever go to buffets with all you can eat, unless you're totally in control and don't worry about how much you can stuff down. Totally eliminate fried food... and you'll eventually hate it.

 

But, bottom line is INPUT and OUTGO. I have no problem adjusting my weight within a few pounds just by regulating the above.... anyone can do it.

 

Just for an experiment .... just watch fat people. The always eat too much, always snacking on junk, always there for the second helping, always worried about the next meal. And their only exercise is opening the fridge door, or raising a drink.

 

Heaving drinking is part of the too much INPUT, also an easy problem. Insert a glass of water between drinks. Drink low calorie drinks... light beer, vodka, etc., if you have to drink.

 

There are a million "diet programs" that sell for millions. When the problem is dirt simple. INTAKE and OUTGO.

 

Every fat friend I have, lost weight just by controlling the INTAKE and OUTGO, even with a limited amount of exercise.

[ufo8mycat]

 

But, bottom line is INPUT and OUTGO. I have no problem adjusting my weight within a few pounds just by regulating the above.... anyone can do it.

 

 

I used to think so as well. I never had major issues with my weight and if I did put on a few kegs it was easily managed by tightening things up.

 

Then my ability to manage the output changed dramatically after I was hit by a car.

 

So did my ability to manage the input through depression, medication, emotional eating, extreme stress - physically and emotionally. I used to think - just don't eat so much and move more. Now I have to eat my words (literally).

 

In that equation there it is more calories in > calories out adjusted for hormonal, emotional and physical factors.

 

I have a great deal more compassion now.

 

As for the low temperatures, many have made a fortune of insane, low effort ways to loose fat. Maybe this is just another opportunity?

[AspenBaldwin]

Thought this was a thread on Oprah...

[OldRover]

I used to think so as well. I never had major issues with my weight and if I did put on a few kegs it was easily managed by tightening things up.

 

Then my ability to manage the output changed dramatically after I was hit by a car.

 

So did my ability to manage the input through depression, medication, emotional eating, extreme stress - physically and emotionally. I used to think - just don't eat so much and move more. Now I have to eat my words (literally).

 

In that equation there it is more calories in > calories out adjusted for hormonal, emotional and physical factors.

 

I have a great deal more compassion now.

 

As for the low temperatures, many have made a fortune of insane, low effort ways to loose fat. Maybe this is just another opportunity?

 

UFO,

 

There are a few that have extra situations that make things a lot more difficult, but not most. You had a major change and can see how it would affect your weight differently. With depression, medication, emotional eating, extreme stress (physically and emotionally), you'll need a LOT more help, and probably professional help. Once you get those solved (and they are all solvable), the weight control should be simple.

 

The problem with MOST people (unlike you), is that they are lazy and just not willing to try. One must try and make an effort to accomplish anything.

[SomeDude16]

Once again people look for a shortcut to use instead of hard work and effort.

[Robert Z]

There are a million "diet programs" that sell for millions. When the problem is dirt simple. INTAKE and OUTGO.

 

Every fat friend I have, lost weight just by controlling the INTAKE and OUTGO, even with a limited amount of exercise.

 

It just isn't that simple; at least not for everyone. And the older you get, the harder it gets. Health issues can play a huge role as well. I can eat carbs and have no available energy because insulin gobbles it up and converts it to fat before I can use it. In my case the problem it is blood-sugar related but other people have other problems. I had to learn what to eat and when to eat it, as well as reduce portion size, and exercise. And then I had to learn how to exercise correctly and what exercises to do, and when. You can burn muscle and actually do yourself more harm than good. That's one reason why long-distance runners are rail thin. They don't have any muscle mass in spite of constant workouts.

 

Another factor, adding muscle helps to burn fat. Hormones play a role as well. Many factors go into our ability to burn fat and maintain a healthy level of body fat. It is our nature to accumulate fat for survival so we are actually fighting nature to get and stay thin.

 

Eating less was just the starting point for me. If something like a cold immersion after a workout activates brown fat, which in turn helps to metabolize white fat, it is an easy thing to do. We will just have to see if there is a viable mechanism for burning fat or not.

 

 

I would say obesity is fairly easy to beat. But getting down to an ideal level of body fat is another matter altogether.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Robert Z

[TheFinalWord]

I just heard about "brown fat" and some very interesting, recent new findings that could help with weight loss. It could be as simple as turning down the thermostat.

 

Interesting. Epidemiologists have posited air conditioning as a possible contributor to the obesity epidemic.

 

As you pointed out, obesity is a lot more complex than calories in/calories out. Genetics and environment play a significant direct role, in addition to behavior (many behaviors are also dependent upon genetics and environment as well; behaviors extend beyond the individual level too; for example, the behaviors of mothers during gestation probably plays a role in addition to behaviors after conception like breast feeding).

Edited December 29, 2015 by TheFinalWord

[Robert Z]

Interesting. Epidemiologists have posited air conditioning as a possible contributor to the obesity epidemic.

 

That appears to be a different mechanism at work - the desire to eat

 

 

Evidence that remaining in the thermoneutral zone promotes adiposity

 

The thermoneutral zone (TNZ) is the range of ambient temperature in which energy expenditure is not required for homeothermy. Exposure to ambient temperatures above or below the TNZ increases energy expenditure, which all other things being equal, decreases energy stores (i.e., fat). This effect was shown in short-term controlled human experiments41, 42 and the decreases in adiposity were evident in controlled animal experiments; these effects are widely exploited in livestock husbandry, where selecting the environment to maximize weight gain is critical.43

 

Animal44 and human45 studies show that excursions above the TNZ markedly reduce food intake. Herman45 cited a consumer survey suggesting that after an air-conditioning breakdown, restaurant sales drop dramatically.

International Journal of Obesity - Putative contributors to the secular increase in obesity: exploring the roads less traveled

[OldRover]

It just isn't that simple; at least not for everyone. And the older you get, the harder it gets. Health issues can play a huge role as well. I can eat carbs and have no available energy because insulin gobbles it up and converts it to fat before I can use it. In my case the problem it is blood-sugar related but other people have other problems. I had to learn what to eat and when to eat it, as well as reduce portion size, and exercise. And then I had to learn how to exercise correctly and what exercises to do, and when. You can burn muscle and actually do yourself more harm than good. That's one reason why long-distance runners are rail thin. They don't have any muscle mass in spite of constant workouts.

 

Another factor, adding muscle helps to burn fat. Hormones play a role as well. Many factors go into our ability to burn fat and maintain a healthy level of body fat. It is our nature to accumulate fat for survival so we are actually fighting nature to get and stay thin.

 

Eating less was just the starting point for me. If something like a cold immersion after a workout activates brown fat, which in turn helps to metabolize white fat, it is an easy thing to do. We will just have to see if there is a viable mechanism for burning fat or not.

 

 

I would say obesity is fairly easy to beat. But getting down to an ideal level of body fat is another matter altogether.

 

Robert,

 

Well, you did it with some issues, I did it, other did it... it's just a "way of life" that one needs to adapt. It's not any harder that other goals, like getting an education, learning how to drive, even learning how to read and write.

 

MOST people that are overweight are just plain lazy. Yes, there's a few that have issues, but rarely a thing that can't be mastered.

 

I see fat people all the time that just can't put the spoon down, and never think of walking to the store. I'm not sympathetic for them. They choose to be fat. Now, they may be nice people and that's fine, but I don't want to hear them constantly complain about being fat and doing nothing about it.

 

YES, it is not only that easy, it's a really good way to enjoy life. I know several people that got their weight under control and all the other problems they had disappeared.

[Emilia]

For example, I can jump on the elliptical and go like a bat out of hell for an hour. Unfortunately, for the last 30 minutes I'm burning fat AND muscle. Burning muscle is bad and I would undermine my effort to reduce my percent body fat.

 

 

You can also starve yourself and burn muscle, not fat. So it isn't as simple as energy in and energy out. What was the source of that energy output?

 

Forget the elliptical, build muscle and cycle your carbs. Dead easy. You don't want to be skinny ripped, especially when older.