Probable divorce in the horizon

[AMarriedMan]

I'm a married man in his forties with one child in elementary school. My wife treated me with respect and love in the beginning of our life together and even some time after we got married. Those feelings have not completely died out and some of the time our live together can still be good. But if we were childless, our marriage would probably be over by now. The negatives seem to outweigh the positives. My wife and I can't but annoy each other. She is the instigator of arguments that flare up almost on a weekly basis and more often during holiday seasons. My wife has some character flaws I'm having difficulty dealing with. She has has issues with anger, envy and a sense of entitlement. She envies my mother who has been a stay-at-home since the time my sister and I were not even born yet. She also hates my sister despite that fact that she and my mother have done very little to earn such persistent animosity from my her. She is civil in their company but I get to hear ours upon hours of complaining about her after nearly every time they meet. None of this is justified, in my opinion, since my mother has done us many big favors such as providing us with free daycare for our kid for years.

 

My parents also helped me put her through college. It seemed necessary for her to swich careers since there was considerable job insecurity in her previous career. Her new career is a long time dream of hers. Unfortunately, there is some uncertainty as to whether she is able to keep her job that she was lucky to get, owing to structural changes in the company. Currently, my wife makes about the same as I, but I'm still the one who pays most of the bills. She only pays for the groceries and our kid's and her own clothes. I only have a few hundred left after all the bills are paid each month, and I save most of that money to cover future random expenses like car repairs. My wife, however, has the tendency to blow about 500 dollars, on average, on mostly what I find superfluous nonsense every month. She is, however, able to, save money for some big ticket items like furniture, and we have always been able to steer clear of any major credit card debt. To make things worse, I have long had a growing feeling that I have made the wrong career choice. Also, I have long occupied the same position and I have reasons to believe my skills have become somewhat outdated, which could lead to a very bad outcome if I were laid off or fired. I haven't been able to make any risky career moves or take any time off for additional training of any kind because someone has had to put food on the table during the time when my wife was not working. I, too, may be forced to go back to school in the coming years. Yes, I have discussed all of this with my wife but to no avail. Every time I remind my wife of certain financial realities, she becomes angry and may threaten me with divorce. Sometimes, her fits of anger start out of virtually nothing. Fortunately, her outbursts are almost always short lived but they cause stress and almost prevent all rational discussion of the actual matters, nonetheless.

 

My parents are reasonably wealthy but frugal. This is in part because my father is an entrepreneur and has always deemed necessary to keep large reserve funds to keep the family financially afloat in bad times. I have a very similar attitude towards money, and I also have quite strong future time orientation. I'm probably going to inherit enough money to pay for any education should I need it or to invest in order to provide a nice source of additional income but not to gain full financial independence. What I find most off-putting about my wife character-wise, is the fact that she has the gall to have vocalized, in salivating tone, her desire to get her hands on the inheritance. I wish to see my parents alive and well for as long as possible because I love them.

 

My wife has gained a significant amount of weight over the past decade or so. I do not find her physically attractive any longer. This, together with her behavior, causes me to have lost sexual desire for her almost completely. I feel as if I were in a prison. I cannot leave for another decade because of our kid. Because of her stressful and time-consuming job (this stress does not explain our problems, because the problems have continued much, much longer than the job), she would not be able to adequately respond to the needs of our child as a single custodial parent. She wouldn't have the time or the energy to to all the household chores that I do in addition to the ones she does and to give our child all of the attention she needs. She would be an inadequate single custodial parent. She couldn't either financially cope (despite child support - she would get no alimony) or be able to meet all the needs of our child. I have decided to soldier on as long as I can for the sake our child, just take all the bull**** quietly (= like a man), and when the time is ripe, lay down the law knowing that if she chooses to walk, it will be her loss. Our marriage might just as well end in divorce earlier, should I lose my job and the ability to bring home a monthly paycheck. The subsequent crisis might well be enough to tip the balance. My main concern after that would be to help keep our kid taken care of and out of trouble.

 

Despite the fact that I love our child and that our relationship is very warm and close, I feel regret for getting married and having a family in the first place. All the pressure, lack of freedom, and the arguments have sapped most of the joy in life I had before our marriage. I do realize, however, that had I never married and had children, I might be have worried that I had missed out on something really great.

 

After the envisioned expiration date of our marriage, I plan to stay single for the rest of my life. I'm done being the wallet of an ungrateful, selfish, angry, shallow-thinking, and entitled harpy who loves to stuff her face all the time. I guess there are women out there who might have been more suitable for me but I'm not going to deal with any amount of female bull**** any longer.

[Downtown]

AMM, welcome to LoveShack. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control (e.g., shopping binges), low empathy, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

My wife treated me with respect and love in the beginning of our life together and even some time after we got married.

How long was the happy period of "some time" after you got married? I ask because, if she really does have strong BPD traits, I would be surprised to hear that her anger issues did not surface quickly after the wedding. Like nearly everyone else, BPDers crave intimacy. They are able to be intensely intimate and passionate during the honeymoon period only because their infatuation over their partner convinces them that he is the nearly perfect man who has come to rescue them from unhappiness.

 

In that way, the infatuation holds a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay. Yet, as soon as the infatuation starts to evaporate, those fears return and the partner will start triggering the two fears, releasing the anger.

 

Those feelings have not completely died out and some of the time our live together can still be good.

If your W has strong BPD traits, the problem is not that she has stopped loving you but, rather, that she frequently is completely out of touch with those loving feelings. This occurs with BPDers because they are so emotionally immature that they cannot tolerate experiencing strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, or the other grey areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

To avoid that problem, a BPDer "splits off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., her love for you) -- putting it entirely out of reach of her conscious mind. The result is that a BPDer will sometimes split you white (adoring you) and sometimes split you black (devaluing you). Moreover, because there is no middle ground, a BPDer typically will flip from one state to the other in less than a minute, often in only ten seconds -- being triggered by some minor thing you say or do.

 

She is the instigator of arguments that flare up almost on a weekly basis and more often during holiday seasons.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), you likely are seeing a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. It is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear.

 

As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed.

 

She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your W is a BPDer, you are always in a lose/lose situation. You lose no matter what you do.

 

Significantly, a BPDer's very WORST behavior typically occurs immediately after, or during, the very BEST of times. Because intimacy makes her feel like you are controlling her and she is losing her self identity, it is common for a BPDer to create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away right after a very intimate evening or a great weekend -- or in the middle of a great vacation. This might explain, then, why you are seeing your W create arguments "more often during holiday seasons."

 

My wife has some character flaws I'm having difficulty dealing with.

If your W really does have strong BPD traits, what you are seeing likely is not "character flaws" but, rather, emotional immaturity. BPDers typically have the emotional development of a 3- or 4-year-old child. This may not be readily apparent because a BPDer usually has the intelligence, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of a full grown adult. Moreover, many BPDers excel in very demanding professions -- sometimes becoming teachers, psychologists, surgeons, famous actors, and politicians.

 

She has has issues with anger, envy and a sense of entitlement. She envies my mother who has been a stay-at-home since the time my sister and I were not even born yet. She also hates my sister despite that fact that she and my mother have done very little to earn such persistent animosity from my her.

It is common for BPDers to try to isolate their partners away from all close friends and family members, thus making it easier to control those partners. Toward that end, BPDers often will bitterly criticize and find fault with those friends and relatives. This is not done, however, out of envy. Instead, it is done to enhance the BPDer's control over you -- mainly because she has a great fear of abandonment. This fear will be especially evident in her attempts to isolate you and have you devote your time to her, not to those other people. And it will be evident in irrational jealousy, where she will accuse you of wanting to be around other women or other people.

 

Yet, if you really are seeing "envy" and not jealousy, you are describing a narcissistic trait, not a BPD trait. This would not be surprising because having strong BPD traits does not rule out her having other traits as well. Indeed, one-third of female BPDers also exhibit strong NPD traits.

 

Sometimes, her fits of anger start out of virtually nothing.

With BPDers, it is common for them to create arguments over such minor issues that neither of you can recall, three days later, what the fight had been about. The apparent reason for the fight -- i.e., the absurd allegation coming from her mouth -- has little or nothing to do with her rage. Instead, it is simply an intense feeling of anger that she's been carrying inside since early childhood. This means you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. This is why it can erupt in only 10 seconds. And this is why, whenever you attempt to discuss any sensitive matter with her, you are only 10 seconds away from a rage. Sadly, there aren't many important issues in life that can be settled in 10 seconds.

 

Fortunately, her outbursts are almost always short lived but they cause stress and almost prevent all rational discussion of the actual matters, nonetheless.

If she is a BPDer, the typical outburst and hissy fit will be several hours -- and on very rare occasions may last 18 hours. When the rage ends, a BPDer is capable of suddenly flipping back to adoring you (splitting you white). She therefore will be puzzled at your inability to do the same. This is why BPDers accuse their partners of "holding grudges" and being unwilling to "let go" of hurt feelings.

 

My wife has gained a significant amount of weight over the past decade or so.

Likewise, my BPDer exW gained 80 pounds during the first year after our wedding. It is common for sexual activity to go off a cliff after the wedding because, as I noted earlier, a BPDer's fear of engulfment returns when the infatuation evaporates. Moreover, if your W had been sexually abused during childhood -- as had occurred with my exW -- gaining weight is a way of reducing that threat. And, even if no sexual abuse had occurred, putting on weight is a passive-aggressive way of denying you sexual pleasure without having to explicitly do so by rejecting your advances.

 

I'm not going to deal with any amount of female bull**** any longer.

The prevalence of BPD (about 6%) is the same for both genders. Hence, if your W has strong BPD traits, the bull**** you are dealing with has nothing to do with being "female."

 

I plan to stay single for the rest of my life.

I suggest that, before committing to that plan, you take a little time to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your child are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance -- and might help you avoid spending another ten years in a toxic relationship. Take care, AMM.

[Majormisstep]

Welcome AMM. Your post appears to be a vent only?

 

No one ever said marriage was easy. It takes BOTH of you to put in 100% effort. You sound embittered by her selfish lifestyle...but maybe you contributed in allowing her to behave this way. I'm not trying to lay blame AMM but when couples spend years together they develop healthy and unhealthy patterns. She may be harbouring some resentment as well.

 

You say you can't leave until your child is finished school. Yes you can but you are choosing not to. If it was that bad you would. So why not turn the ship around, get into counselling and work on your marriage. That option is much easier than riding it out for the next 10 years or so...all while your child is growing up in a home of animosity and anger.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have decided to soldier on as long as I can for the sake our child, just take all the bull**** quietly (= like a man), and when the time is ripe, lay down the law knowing that if she chooses to walk, it will be her loss.

 

How can you think you're doing your child a favor with this passive approach to the very real problems in your life? You want this toxic mess to be her relationship model and for her to grow up thinking this is how marriage works?

 

A real man works to address the issues one naturally encounters over decades of marriage. If, having exhausted every possibility, those problems remain then a proactive approach involves taking the well-disclosed steps required to maintain a healthy emotional environment for you and your child.

 

Quit hiding behind your anger and resentment...

 

Mr. Lucky

[AMarriedMan]

Hi Downtown,

 

thank you very much for your response. You have put a lot of thought into it. I appreciate that.

 

 

How long was the happy period of "some time" after you got married? I ask because, if she really does have strong BPD traits, I would be surprised to hear that her anger issues did not surface quickly after the wedding. Like nearly everyone else, BPDers crave intimacy. They are able to be intensely intimate and passionate during the honeymoon period only because their infatuation over their partner convinces them that he is the nearly perfect man who has come to rescue them from unhappiness.

 

 

I'd say the anger and the other issues surfaced gradually, becoming worse as time went on and as one relationship milestone after another was passed. I never experienced an about-face where a previously lovely woman suddenly became a monster. During the very first weeks of our relationship, she was strongly infatuated with me. Our first tense moments followed about four months into the relationship. I don't remember very accurately but sometime around that time I had moved into her apartment officially. About a year into the relationship, we bought our first home together and got married about six months after that. A few months after the marriage ceremony, she told me she was going to be working part time because of the situation at work (she did not lie about it, only omitted telling me about it before marriage). A year after that, she went back to college for seven years. The sex was always nothing to write home about but, after marriage, it became somewhat more lackluster. She started badmouthing my mother and my sister to me about three years into the relationship. Our kid was born four years after into the marriage.

 

 

In that way, the infatuation holds a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay. Yet, as soon as the infatuation starts to evaporate, those fears return and the partner will start triggering the two fears, releasing the anger.

 

If your W has strong BPD traits, the problem is not that she has stopped loving you but, rather, that she frequently is completely out of touch with those loving feelings. This occurs with BPDers because they are so emotionally immature that they cannot tolerate experiencing strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, or the other grey areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

To avoid that problem, a BPDer "splits off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., her love for you) -- putting it entirely out of reach of her conscious mind. The result is that a BPDer will sometimes split you white (adoring you) and sometimes split you black (devaluing you). Moreover, because there is no middle ground, a BPDer typically will flip from one state to the other in less than a minute, often in only ten seconds -- being triggered by some minor thing you say or do.

 

If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), you likely are seeing a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. It is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear.

 

 

I understand the dynamic you're describing. But to say there is no middle ground is not an accurate description of things in my wife's case. She can be very cranky in the morning, especially at weekends. There is an eruption that lasts from half an hour to a couple hours, at at worst, on every weekend out of two, on average. The first four hours after waking up are the danger zone. After that, any outbursts, while entirely possible, happen more rarely and last a considerable shorter time. Most of the time, she is quite normal.

 

 

As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed.

 

 

After a typical fight, or rather a negative emotional outburst by my wife, my drawing close to her elicits a positive response from her. Then things cool down to neutral.

 

 

She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your W is a BPDer, you are always in a lose/lose situation. You lose no matter what you do.

 

Significantly, a BPDer's very WORST behavior typically occurs immediately after, or during, the very BEST of times. Because intimacy makes her feel like you are controlling her and she is losing her self identity, it is common for a BPDer to create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away right after a very intimate evening or a great weekend -- or in the middle of a great vacation. This might explain, then, why you are seeing your W create arguments "more often during holiday seasons."

 

 

Or it could be that spouses simply come into much more contact during holidays.

 

 

If your W really does have strong BPD traits, what you are seeing likely is not "character flaws" but, rather, emotional immaturity. BPDers typically have the emotional development of a 3- or 4-year-old child. This may not be readily apparent because a BPDer usually has the intelligence, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of a full grown adult. Moreover, many BPDers excel in very demanding professions -- sometimes becoming teachers, psychologists, surgeons, famous actors, and politicians.

 

It is common for BPDers to try to isolate their partners away from all close friends and family members, thus making it easier to control those partners. Toward that end, BPDers often will bitterly criticize and find fault with those friends and relatives. This is not done, however, out of envy. Instead, it is done to enhance the BPDer's control over you -- mainly because she has a great fear of abandonment. This fear will be especially evident in her attempts to isolate you and have you devote your time to her, not to those other people. And it will be evident in irrational jealousy, where she will accuse you of wanting to be around other women or other people.

 

 

My wife has never accused me of wanting to be around other women, except for once when I had been drinking with my best buddy until 5 am one weekend before we had kids. When I told her what I had been doing, she believed me. She seems to be fully confident in that I will not cheat on her. She has a tendency to find faults in a lot of people, not just people close to me. My wife has complained to me about her own mother, her brother's wife, her boss, some co-workers of hers and a many others. If my wife had really been trying to alienate me from everyone close to me, then she would have worked to alienate me from my best friend, as well. In fact, she has never done anything to that effect. My wife has never given me any cause for jealousy.

 

 

Yet, if you really are seeing "envy" and not jealousy, you are describing a narcissistic trait, not a BPD trait. This would not be surprising because having strong BPD traits does not rule out her having other traits as well. Indeed, one-third of female BPDers also exhibit strong NPD traits.

 

 

I think it really is envy. She has said a couple of times that she'd like to be a stay-at-home mom and live on a man's dime without any work-related stress like my mother. Who wouldn't mind having a robot to go to work on one's behalf and hand over most of the money? I wouldn't. (That's a genuine male-female issue for you, by the way. For a human female, a human male is fundamentally a source of resources. And for a human male, a human female is fundamentally a functioning womb. The entire landscape of our sexual instincts and feelings is shaped by that fact.)

 

 

With BPDers, it is common for them to create arguments over such minor issues that neither of you can recall, three days later, what the fight had been about. The apparent reason for the fight -- i.e., the absurd allegation coming from her mouth -- has little or nothing to do with her rage. Instead, it is simply an intense feeling of anger that she's been carrying inside since early childhood. This means you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. This is why it can erupt in only 10 seconds. And this is why, whenever you attempt to discuss any sensitive matter with her, you are only 10 seconds away from a rage. Sadly, there aren't many important issues in life that can be settled in 10 seconds.

 

 

We have been able to discuss even the sensitive stuff, but it can be hard many times.

 

 

If she is a BPDer, the typical outburst and hissy fit will be several hours -- and on very rare occasions may last 18 hours. When the rage ends, a BPDer is capable of suddenly flipping back to adoring you (splitting you white). She therefore will be puzzled at your inability to do the same. This is why BPDers accuse their partners of "holding grudges" and being unwilling to "let go" of hurt feelings.

 

 

My wife's outbursts typically last from a few minutes to a couple of hours. She has never accused me of holding grudges. But I can tell there is splitting going on as during her fits, she holds a very negative opinion of me, while she has moments when I'm the best thing in the world, on an emotional level. Most of the time, she's calm and rational and does not go off completely unexpectedly. Often, I do or say something or raise an issue that irritates her two or three times in a row, causing her to escalate her response to shouting.

 

 

Likewise, my BPDer exW gained 80 pounds during the first year after our wedding. It is common for sexual activity to go off a cliff after the wedding because, as I noted earlier, a BPDer's fear of engulfment returns when the infatuation evaporates. Moreover, if your W had been sexually abused during childhood -- as had occurred with my exW -- gaining weight is a way of reducing that threat. And, even if no sexual abuse had occurred, putting on weight is a passive-aggressive way of denying you sexual pleasure without having to explicitly do so by rejecting your advances.

 

 

I have no reason to believe there was any serious abuse like that in my wife's history. Her parents divorced when she was a toddler and she's never seen her father since. The first few years, we had a pretty normal sex life that declined after a pretty standard fashion. There was no cliff in sexual activity but a gradual decline to a point where *I* am not really feeling like it any longer. My wife has undergone efforts to rein in her weight gain. She has been able to lose weight on a couple occasions but it seems that she's taking after her mother and that she just can't push away from the table. Losing weight can be hard. I know that from my own personal experience. Maintaining ideal weight at middle age can be even harder.

 

 

The prevalence of BPD (about 6%) is the same for both genders. Hence, if your W has strong BPD traits, the bull**** you are dealing with has nothing to do with being "female."

 

 

BPD is not the only personality disorder around. Also, there are relationship issues that have nothing to do with mental health.

 

 

I suggest that, before committing to that plan, you take a little time to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your child are dealing with.

 

 

That is definitely worth considering.

 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance -- and might help you avoid spending another ten years in a toxic relationship. Take care, AMM.

 

Thank you very much for your input and your tips!

[Downtown]

I'd say the anger and the other issues surfaced gradually.... to say there is no middle ground is not an accurate description of things in my wife's case.... My wife has never accused me of wanting to be around other women.... She has a tendency to find faults in a lot of people, not just people close to me.

AMM, thanks for clarifying your W's behavior in your very thoughtful and detailed response. I agree with you that you are not describing a strong pattern of BPD warning signs. Indeed, a primary BPD trait -- emotional instability -- is inconsistent with your observation that "Most of the time, she's calm and rational and does not go off completely unexpectedly." Has she had her hormone levels (e.g., thyroid) checked in recent years? I ask because that might explain her irritability in the morning. Edited December 28, 2015 by Downtown

[AMarriedMan]

AMM, thanks for clarifying your W's behavior in your very thoughtful and detailed response. I agree with you that you are not describing a strong pattern of BPD warning signs. Indeed, a primary BPD trait -- emotional instability -- is inconsistent with your observation that "Most of the time, she's calm and rational and does not go off completely unexpectedly." Has she had her hormone levels (e.g., thyroid) checked in recent years? I ask because that might explain her irritability in the morning.

 

Actually, she has. About four years ago she obtained a result near the lower end of the range of normal values. Her mother has been treated for hypothyroidism for many years. I vividly remember the difference between the pre and post-treatment versions of my mother-in-law. I've been going on about my wife needing to see a specialist for a year or two now. Her refusal to do so somewhat frustrates me because the reasons to believe she might have a thyroid problem are piling up: the weight gain, her being tired often, clumsiness (hitting her toes on chair legs etc. much more frequently than I do), irritability, and even slight hair loss at the hairline in the front (pointed out by herself). It has begun to even affect her work.

 

I think she has issues beyond probable hypothyroidism, though. I read the 18 signs of BPD checklist. After scoring each item between 0-1 points, allowing for fractional points, I arrived at a sum of 6-7 in my wife's case. That's not "most". I think she is further towards the extreme along the BPD scale than the average person but probably does not meet the diagnostic criteria.

[Downtown]

About four years ago she obtained a result near the lower end of the range of normal values. Her mother has been treated for hypothyroidism for many years.

I suggest she see an endocrinologist to check for hypothyroidism. One reason is that, even when a person tests at the lower end of the normal value, they can suffer from the symptoms of hypothyroidism. What is important is how bad the symptoms are, not the exact level of the test -- because different people need different levels.

 

Another reason is that, when the thyroid is failing, it is common for it to sputter out slowly over several years. That is, it will produce a normal hormone level for many hours and then suddenly produce a greatly reduced level. The result is that it can take many repeated trips to the doctor to actually be able to observe the reduced level.

 

As I noted earlier, we all exhibit BPD traits. It is normal to get flareups of our BPD traits -- sometimes lasting as long as a year or two -- when we experience a large change in hormones. This is why many of us behave like BPDers for several years following puberty. And this is why many women exhibit BPD flareups during PMS, pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause -- or with strong changes in other hormones (e.g., the thyroid hormones).

[sandylee1]

Why have you accept her bad mouthing your family?

 

Had you challenged her the first time she said it, that would have been the last time.

I can tell you that if my husband did that I WOULD divorce him for that alone, never mind anything else.

 

You have sat back and allowed her to behave in this way. You've been something of a punching bag.

 

Why not write down the issues you have in bullet point format....have a conversation with your wife in a calm way prior to the new year. Broach it as though you want to go into the new year and have a better marriage, where you're both happy and try and have it like when you first got married..in as much as that is practical.

 

Start with the positive about her...talk of the happy times for you... then go on to explain how HER actions and behaviour make you feel. Especially the talk of your mother and sister... say how you would never talk about her family like that and you find it rude and disrespectful you.

 

Be very clear about what needs to change for you to be happier in the marriage. ..and be clear about what you'll have to do if there isn't a change. That includes the finances as well....discuss those things and be clear on how you want it going forward.

 

If she thinks she'd have more money living alone...she can try that out.

You have to be prepared to loose your marriage to save it though. Start standing firm and don't let her push you around as she's been doing. Women don't respect weak men and that's how you come across.

 

If she loves you. ..she won't want you to be unhappy. She will look at making changes...if she doesn't..then have the confidence to leave the marriage. If your son sees your wife berating you and talking to you anyhow..he'll think it's normal..set him a good example.

[Popsicle]

You don't sound like you want to be married to her anymore, yet you sound scared that she will divorce you.

[AMarriedMan]

Why have you accept her bad mouthing your family?

 

Had you challenged her the first time she said it, that would have been the last time.

 

 

That is actually partly my fault. I set a bad example myself by openly squabbling with my mother in front of my wife and complaining about my mother's actions to my wife occasionally in the beginning of our marriage. Now I know why "Honor your mother and your father" is in the big book.

 

 

I can tell you that if my husband did that I WOULD divorce him for that alone, never mind anything else.

 

 

I'm not inclined to take such proclamations at face value, at least having heard tough talk about divorce dozens of times by now. But if I heard that from a woman I was dating, I'd take her down a notch or two on the list of candidates for a serious relationship.

 

 

You have sat back and allowed her to behave in this way. You've been something of a punching bag.

 

 

Actually, I had my guard up in the beginning of our relationship. Before I thought I knew what to expect of her, I used to sometimes look at her in the eyes for a minute or two with an inscrutable, calm expression on my face when we were sitting in the living room together. She told me it made her a little bit afraid, and it possibly turned her on a little.

 

If I were to do it all over again, I'd try to put any women I were dating at as much ease as possible and try to encourage them to be their true selves while really listening to what they were saying. At the sight of any red flags, I would stop considering them serious prospects.

 

 

Why not write down the issues you have in bullet point format....have a conversation with your wife in a calm way prior to the new year. Broach it as though you want to go into the new year and have a better marriage, where you're both happy and try and have it like when you first got married..in as much as that is practical.

 

Start with the positive about her...talk of the happy times for you... then go on to explain how HER actions and behaviour make you feel. Especially the talk of your mother and sister... say how you would never talk about her family like that and you find it rude and disrespectful you.

 

Be very clear about what needs to change for you to be happier in the marriage. ..and be clear about what you'll have to do if there isn't a change. That includes the finances as well....discuss those things and be clear on how you want it going forward.

 

If she thinks she'd have more money living alone...she can try that out.

You have to be prepared to loose your marriage to save it though. Start standing firm and don't let her push you around as she's been doing. Women don't respect weak men and that's how you come across.

 

If she loves you. ..she won't want you to be unhappy. She will look at making changes...if she doesn't..then have the confidence to leave the marriage. If your son sees your wife berating you and talking to you anyhow..he'll think it's normal..set him a good example.

 

What you say, sounds good on principle. Should my wife and I divorce, we'd probably both retain custody and our daughter would live with her mother. My wife has expressed as her opinion that children belong with their mothers in a context unrelated to a hypothetical divorce of her own. If I wanted my daughter to live with me, we'd be in for a bitter battle. From what I have observed, she would not be able to give our daughter adequate care and attention while working full time in her demanding profession. I am vital in seeing to it that our kid gets to school every morning on time, that none of her important appointments (doctor, dentist etc.) are forgotten, and that at least one of her parents is able to give her attention in the evening (my wife works very long hours during some parts of the year). If I were out of the picture twelve days out of fourteen, our daughter's attention seeking behavior would result in her being dismissed or even yelled at by her mother, probably resulting in the development of behavioral problems in the future. I might get more time with my daughter then the standard every other weekend, but who knows how bad it could get in case of divorce.)

 

Besides, it is not a hard fact that at least one parent feeling dissatisfied with the marriage necessarily results in the children suffering. There are many things going on in a marriage that are none of the children's business. That said, I do acknowledge that if the children, for example, never or very seldom see any warmth between their parents, their idea of intimate relationships can be distorted.

[VeveCakes]

You said she could not be a good single parent but have you considered taking full custody?

[AMarriedMan]

You said she could not be a good single parent but have you considered taking full custody?

 

You don't "take" full custody just like that, especially if the other parent is against the idea.

[VeveCakes]

You don't "take" full custody just like that, especially if the other parent is against the idea.

 

Aside from focusing on the semantics of what I posted, have you ever thought about battling for sole custody?

[howtomoveon]

Hi AMM, I hope this doesn't come off preachy, just take this as the opinion of someone who chose to do things differently for the sake of my child.

I'm in the camp that believes any kid will end up better-adjusted growing up with two parents in separate but happy, or at least not unhappy, households, more so than in the midst of a bitter union. Kids are incredibly perceptive of both negative and positive emotions, but also very adaptable to change.

My honest opinion would be similar to the others who suggest taking some sort of action to improve your marriage, but if it does not improve, strongly consider ending it, and the sooner the better. You don't have to stick to the traditional every-other-weekend schedule. My ex and I split with this mentality and have had an amicable and even friendly relationship all of the time. He sees our daughter 3x a week.

Yes, there is a loss in the sense of "tradition" but when tradition is not healthy I don't think it's the better option or the best example. And yes, we both work full-time to maintain our separate households, so maybe she doesn't get the same quality of life in a logistical sense, but she gains in other areas. She has never seen a negative interaction between her parents. We each spend a good amount of real quality time with her. And, she gets twice the presents

 

I personally want my child to grow up to be independent and have happy relationships with healthy boundaries. It is no secret children learn from what they see, and we tend to repeat negative patterns throughout our lives. You may then ask yourself, what do you want your child to learn, and grow up to be?

 

PS - I also recommend you do something nice for yourself and begin working on the things that only you can improve for your own sake, whether this is your career, or your happiness via the addition of hobbies, counseling, exercise, special daddy/daughter dates, etc. Best of luck.

[AMarriedMan]

Aside from focusing on the semantics of what I posted, have you ever thought about battling for sole custody?

 

Such a battle would be very expensive and would probably result in a loss. Also, it would probably seriously harm our ability co-operate in raising and looking after our child.

[AMarriedMan]

Hi AMM, I hope this doesn't come off preachy, just take this as the opinion of someone who chose to do things differently for the sake of my child.

I'm in the camp that believes any kid will end up better-adjusted growing up with two parents in separate but happy, or at least not unhappy, households, more so than in the midst of a bitter union. Kids are incredibly perceptive of both negative and positive emotions, but also very adaptable to change.

My honest opinion would be similar to the others who suggest taking some sort of action to improve your marriage, but if it does not improve, strongly consider ending it, and the sooner the better. You don't have to stick to the traditional every-other-weekend schedule. My ex and I split with this mentality and have had an amicable and even friendly relationship all of the time. He sees our daughter 3x a week.

Yes, there is a loss in the sense of "tradition" but when tradition is not healthy I don't think it's the better option or the best example. And yes, we both work full-time to maintain our separate households, so maybe she doesn't get the same quality of life in a logistical sense, but she gains in other areas. She has never seen a negative interaction between her parents. We each spend a good amount of real quality time with her. And, she gets twice the presents

 

 

Thank you for you comment. I'm glad you have had an amicable divorce. I'm going to have to take into account all the details of our situation and plan accordingly. And yes, I'm going to have to do something the problem with boundaries. I am not about to drop any bombs or make ultimatums any time soon. I will take a gradual approach.

 

 

I personally want my child to grow up to be independent and have happy relationships with healthy boundaries. It is no secret children learn from what they see, and we tend to repeat negative patterns throughout our lives. You may then ask yourself, what do you want your child to learn, and grow up to be?

 

 

That is a good question. Divorce is the last resort, however.

 

PS - I also recommend you do something nice for yourself and begin working on the things that only you can improve for your own sake, whether this is your career, or your happiness via the addition of hobbies, counseling, exercise, special daddy/daughter dates, etc. Best of luck.

[Popsicle]

AMarriedMan, you have spent this entire thread talking about how much you don't want to divorce (despite the problems) because of fears. Why did you even make this thread, in this section nonetheless? If you just wanted to vent and/or discuss how to cope with the situation while staying, there are other sections that will be more focused on that.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Popsicle

[dreamingoftigers]

Actually, she has. About four years ago she obtained a result near the lower end of the range of normal values. Her mother has been treated for hypothyroidism for many years. I vividly remember the difference between the pre and post-treatment versions of my mother-in-law. I've been going on about my wife needing to see a specialist for a year or two now. Her refusal to do so somewhat frustrates me because the reasons to believe she might have a thyroid problem are piling up: the weight gain, her being tired often, clumsiness (hitting her toes on chair legs etc. much more frequently than I do), irritability, and even slight hair loss at the hairline in the front (pointed out by herself). It has begun to even affect her work.

 

I think she has issues beyond probable hypothyroidism, though. I read the 18 signs of BPD checklist. After scoring each item between 0-1 points, allowing for fractional points, I arrived at a sum of 6-7 in my wife's case. That's not "most". I think she is further towards the extreme along the BPD scale than the average person but probably does not meet the diagnostic criteria.

 

I was diagnosed with BPD in my early 20s. I went through years of treatment and a successful re-evaluation. I am no longer BPD, as of 10 years now.

 

Nothing in your post spring up as BPD to me.

 

It seems that she most has a conflict-avoidant husband that resents her. And she resents him in equal measure.

 

Instead of trying to work out the issues in your marriage, but hoping she suppresses how she feels (like you do), you try to come off as a " nice guy" or saint while she is a terribly flawed, fat human being.

 

In fact, an inadequate parent as well.

 

No wonder she resents you. You judge her instead of trying to talk to her or figure out what her needs are.

 

I bet you aren't adequately meeting them

 

BTW. If she shows symptoms of hypo thyroidism, you are focusing more on her weight and how that affects YOU instead of caring for what can be a very serious medical condition for your partner.

 

Time to do some navel-gazing.