The Art of Seduction

[loveweary11]

What? You mean like men do?

 

I'm sure the western men are just as bad. Don't really know more than 3 guys. Can't comment. I don't have the experience with guys.

 

Yes learn this now. It's a cardinal sin for you to have needs, express them or heaven forbid actually put someone other than your boyfriend first.

 

If you've picked the right man, detached your ego while he detaches his, he will be receptive and eager to hear your needs and to cater to them as you cater to his, It's not a battle. It's a partnership. By putting each other first, you create a healthy relationship.

 

 

Yes Stephanie, you will have to turn yourself inside out for each and every single man trying to discover who you should be so you can keep him. Enjoy that journey. Of course there are many men who want a woman to focus solely on him, pander to his whims and be as unchallenging of his self professed authority as possible. I don't date them personally as experience tells me they are more trouble than they are worth.

 

You never change *who* you are when you form a relationship based on giving. You change some actions, some outward things, to cater to the other person's needs. To make them feel good/special. So, as you voice your needs to me in a relationship, I change my behavior to make you feel good. This is what good relationships are all about. Giving, not taking.

 

Take a look at this Wikipedia link. A good relationship is based on a lot of the same principles:

 

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

 

[Stephanie91]

I am not against feminism if it's "done" right. Yes, social and economic equality are desired outcomes, however, Northern American women do it wrong. Most are too attach to their ego, unwilling to change or tolerate hardships and jump the gun at the slightest sign of discomfort. That is why there are so many divorces here and most don't last more than 5 years or so. I've met women who refused to have children, the "childfree" crowd, women who despise housework, to some even embracing their own sexual vulnerability is a sign of weakness, and my Gosh, the way some of these women dress to school/work, like a hobo, I swear, but I guess it's also part of being yourself...no wonder why the thread has become a debate and not a discussion.

[Stephanie91]

Loveweary11, exactly my point just paraphrased properly. When I say trying to seduce your man I don't mean betraying yourself or changing to the core for a man. And if your man inspires you to change to good then why not? How do you know that you're so perfect the way you are that you don't need anything more? When you give you're not weak or not the losing party, it's just you put your beloved above your ego which is only for strong people. It is not embarrassing to try to please your man/woman, you're trying to make the relationship better and it's only encouraging.

[loveweary11]

I am not against feminism if it's "done" right. Yes, social and economic equality are desired outcomes, however, Northern American women do it wrong. Most are too attach to their ego, unwilling to change or tolerate hardships and jump the gun at the slightest sign of discomfort. That is why there are so many divorces here and most don't last more than 5 years or so. I've met women who refused to have children, the "childfree" crowd, women who despise housework, to some even embracing their own sexual vulnerability is a sign of weakness...no wonder why the thread has become a debate and not a discussion.

 

Brilliant. Absolutely perfect insight.

 

This is exactly the problem of many Americans, male or female.

 

They are all too weak.

 

I've always said if there were ever an all out war, Americans would lose because they are too weak/out of shape/unable to handle discomfort.

 

You are absolutely dead on with this post. This is exactly what makes both American men and women suck in many ways.

 

All ego, no understanding of the common good, of fitness, of strength in mind and body.

[Buddhist]

I've met women who refused to have children, the "childfree" crowd, women who despise housework,

 

No.....please tell me it isn't true! That some women don't want children. Can't unsee. :roll eyes:

 

PS - Please remind me never to enter the medieval backwater that is apparently Russia.

[Stephanie91]

That followers of "being yourself" probably took it way too far...the original meaning of this phrase was probably to be true to yourself and not do things that make you unhappy. However, consider this: a woman is in a relationship/in search for a partner blindly follows the advice to be yourself and in many cases it means looking like a slob, being too lazy to look like an actual woman, cussing like a sailor, being clueless in the kitchen and hate babies? If anything, this image that I just described is being true to herself, though how does it benefit her to be more successful and happy? No wonder we have so many bitter women...

[Stephanie91]

No.....please tell me it isn't true! That some women don't want children. Can't unsee. :roll eyes:

 

PS - Please remind me never to enter the medieval backwater that is apparently Russia.

Russia is a great country with the most beautiful feminine women, so maybe you won't fit in, correct. And yes, there's nothing seductive about a healthy woman who rejects something beautiful like motherhood.

[Stephanie91]

Stephanie, I agree with most of your thoughts in this thread. I think the advice most women are given these days is that they are just the best thing ever (no matter how untrue) and that any man would be lucky to have them. It's really sad to me how many women just do not take pride in being good to their partner. Fat women are screaming about how men should find them as beautiful of fit women. I can't even remember the last time I dated a girl that could cook. Or had any interest in trying. Things like that. I just don't get it. How they they not take pride in themselves as a woman? I take pride in the fact that I am good to the woman I am with.

 

Loveweary, I have said a few times on this forum the same thing you are saying, that a successful relationship requires two people who put the feelings and needs of their partner before their own. Too many people out there demanding what they want from a partner, yet have little to no interest in what they can offer that partner. That attitude is prevalent in this thread.

Yes, I see that many girls receive that advice which really does not serve them in the future. It's really naive to think that you're the best thing ever and be proud for not knowing how to cook/not wanting children/looking like a hobo...I feel sorry for you that you have been dating girls like that. I am pretty sure there are some normal ones left just difficult to find. Most are media saturated and false-empowered these days.

[Buddhist]

be yourself and in many cases it means looking like a slob, being too lazy to look like an actual woman, cussing like a sailor, being clueless in the kitchen and hate babies? If anything, this image that I just described is being true to herself, though how does it benefit her to be more successful and happy? No wonder we have so many bitter women...

 

Wait! I've got to get a pen and take notes here.

 

Your posts are rife with gross assumptions and a total lack of understanding of the country you are now calling home. If Russian ideals are so fantastic why have you emigrated?

 

Since when does being yourself equal any of the things you've mentioned above? They don't. You've just decided they do because it's convenient for your argument and you happen to side with the male responders who also hold the same gross generalisations that you do.

 

Not one of the people advocating being yourself has said, be fat, unattractive, lazy and hate babies. In fact all of them have said they are into personal development, they don't dress like slobs nor are they unfit or unhealthy. I personally dress impeccably, have a great body and am also a generous and loving partner. But don't let that hold you back from attacking something you just don't understand and don't care to.

 

As for having to love babies because I have ovaries. No sorry I will never agree with you there. I am a free person, I have choices including the choice not to spend my lifetime supporting, raising and feeding children. Do you also look down upon men who don't want to marry or have babies? Is it a sin in your eyes for the person who owns testicles to not want children? See how ridiculous this statement of yours is.

 

You've been entirely rude to most of the female respondents on this thread simply because no-one lined up to pat you on the back for your idea's. What you're advocating is the silly trap most young women fall into which is investing heavily in their appearance and sexuality as being their prime quality and sense of self worth. Those of us who've now passed mid-life know exactly where that leads. To a midlife crisis if you fail to develop any other sense of self beyond your ability to be sexually appealing to a man. News flash, basing your self worth on something as fleeting as the blush on your cheeks is a bad idea. And thats all the female respondents were referring to. But you chose to take that idea to mean that we are all advocating being fat and unattractive, which isn't anyone's natural state btw, and push your own agenda of investing in sex appeal instead.

 

You're welcome to build your sense of self on anything you please. Just don't expect everyone else to jump on your bandwagon, particularly older people who actually know better because they've lived consequences. At 23 no-one could tell me anything. I was much like you, sure I knew everything about life etc etc. That's just the obstinance of the young and inexperienced. We've all said our piece and it's clear you don't care to listen. That's okay.

 

Enjoy your journey of investing in your sex appeal. In time you will come to understand why it's not the best choice in life.

[Samhain]

Russia is a great country with the most beautiful feminine women, so maybe you won't fit in, correct. And yes, there's nothing seductive about a healthy woman who rejects something beautiful like motherhood.

 

Speaking as somebody who stayed in Russia for 3 months I can honestly say I never encountered any of these uber feminine seductive beauties. I did however witness two drunk pretty looking women in the hotel bar. I'll never forget it because when one collapsed drunk, the other one literally threw her over her shoulder and walked out while tugging her own panties out of her crack.

 

It was amazing.

[Stephanie91]

Wait! I've got to get a pen and take notes here.

 

Your posts are rife with gross assumptions and a total lack of understanding of the country you are now calling home. If Russian ideals are so fantastic why have you emigrated?

 

Since when does being yourself equal any of the things you've mentioned above? They don't. You've just decided they do because it's convenient for your argument and you happen to side with the male responders who also hold the same gross generalisations that you do.

 

Not one of the people advocating being yourself has said, be fat, unattractive, lazy and hate babies. In fact all of them have said they are into personal development, they don't dress like slobs nor are they unfit or unhealthy. I personally dress impeccably, have a great body and am also a generous and loving partner. But don't let that hold you back from attacking something you just don't understand and don't care to.

 

As for having to love babies because I have ovaries. No sorry I will never agree with you there. I am a free person, I have choices including the choice not to spend my lifetime supporting, raising and feeding children. Do you also look down upon men who don't want to marry or have babies? Is it a sin in your eyes for the person who owns testicles to not want children? See how ridiculous this statement of yours is.

 

You've been entirely rude to most of the female respondents on this thread simply because no-one lined up to pat you on the back for your idea's. What you're advocating is the silly trap most young women fall into which is investing heavily in their appearance and sexuality as being their prime quality and sense of self worth. Those of us who've now passed mid-life know exactly where that leads. To a midlife crisis if you fail to develop any other sense of self beyond your ability to be sexually appealing to a man. News flash, basing your self worth on something as fleeting as the blush on your cheeks is a bad idea. And thats all the female respondents were referring to. But you chose to take that idea to mean that we are all advocating being fat and unattractive, which isn't anyone's natural state btw, and push your own agenda of investing in sex appeal instead.

 

You're welcome to build your sense of self on anything you please. Just don't expect everyone else to jump on your bandwagon, particularly older people who actually know better because they've lived consequences. At 23 no-one could tell me anything. I was much like you, sure I knew everything about life etc etc. That's just the obstinance of the young and inexperienced. We've all said our piece and it's clear you don't care to listen. That's okay.

 

Enjoy your journey of investing in your sex appeal. In time you will come to understand why it's not the best choice in life.

Why are you so focused on the sex appeal though? I've never said it's the main thing to pay attention to, though it's essential. And stop hating on Russia, you don't **** about that country

[Leigh 87]

OP is Russian. If she is living in Russia or if she is recently in North America it explains her thinking. Maybe she was born here but those beleif were taught to her from her birth. We are debating important cultural differences and nothing will break through her. I had 2 close experiences with Russian women and this is how they think. There is no changing their minds.

 

My good friend is Russian.

 

They are the warmest family; always feeding me and my bf by default even if we just drop by. Her mother is the first to highlight when I have lost weight. Very complimentary people.

 

Yet I would hand my friend lollies and treats and her mother would berate her. LOL.

 

Being attractive and making an effort to remain slim is important to them. That's for sure.

[Stephanie91]

My good friend is Russian.

 

They are the warmest family; always feeding me and my bf by default even if we just drop by. Her mother is the first to highlight when I have lost weight. Very complimentary people.

 

Yet I would hand my friend lollies and treats and her mother would berate her. LOL.

 

Being attractive and making an effort to remain slim is important to them. That's for sure.

Though I was talking about so much more than just being slim and attractive...

[Buddhist]

Why are you so focused on the sex appeal though? I've never said it's the main thing to pay attention to, though it's essential. And stop hating on Russia, you don't **** about that country

 

What were you saying about cussing like a sailor?

[Stephanie91]

What were you saying about cussing like a sailor?

I am just being myself

[Buddhist]

I am just being myself

 

Then clearly your idea of being yourself and mine vary by miles.

[Popsicle]

I grew up in the 80's and was raised to be very traditional in almost every sense, which I have found that some men like and some men don't. When I look around I see women of all types and NONE of them have a problem getting men so I've concluded that it really doesn't matter how you act. Anything goes. I am in America by the way.

[jen1447]

Why did this thread suddenly stop in the middle of the night?

 

Points to some points ....

 

It sounds like you missed the entire 1980's and 1990's when every other article was telling men to cry, not cry, talk about their feelings, not talk about their feelings, how to dress, grow a beard, shave a beard etc.

I don't read men's magazines but it does seem like a lot of online articles mainly advise men on how to be pussies.

 

Be yourself is pretty useless advice. When was the last time a guy saw a porky lady with jean-overalls and pigtails walking down the street and wolfing down ice cream, and thought god DAMN, she's really being herself... oh mama?

You have sth of a point here but I wish ppl would avoid the example-by-absurdity approach. It's indeed possible that someone would find an overweight, overall-wearing, pigtail-having woman attractive, like forex someone who's already in love w/her who doesn't happen to subscribe to your personal sensibilities. It's true that a recommendation to start out trying to attract men by pushing conventionally unattractive attributes is bad advice, but that's not what "be yourself" advice is really saying. It's saying don't fundamentally change to accommodate anyone.

 

I did get it the first time, being French doesn't justify typing with errors, English is my second language as well but I check things before posting...but yeah, still has no relevance to the topic...

Criticizing her spelling is an ad hominem logical fallacy. Her spelling doesn't actually affect her ability to judge situations and doesn't disqualify her from participation in the discussion, but it's a convenient way to distract from and dismiss the points she's actually making in favor of a superficial shortcoming that can be disingenuously applied to her character overall.

 

My friend and I were talking about various ways to keep your man interested/come back for more or what makes them choose you over and over again. Among the things that I mentioned was taking care of your physical appearance, learn to be great at sex, having great cooking skills, being adventurous, considerate, be supportive to your man/being his cheerleader, not leaning in too much, develop seductive vocabulary...Any inputs? Interesting viewpoints on the subject? What are some tricks and tips you guy have that make your man melt/guys what made you super attracted to your woman?

 

Honestly I never made much effort that would be considered specific to retaining a guy. Like others have said, I try to generally be as good as I can be but it's not for the express purpose of impressing anyone really. More of a philosophical approach ....be the best version of you you can be and the rest will take care of itself.