My brother screwed me over and it's killing my family

[Jon96]

He refuses to appologize, because he doesn't care about your feelings. He refuses to pay even a tiny price, that could give you a great relief. He refuses to pay one cent that can benefit you with a million $. That's the kind of brother you have.

 

His inability to apologize is what has convinced me he is in the wrong.

 

If I put myself in his shoes and I drunkenly kissed his GF because she came onto me, once I found out I would be apologizing to both of them. Instead he is firmly accusing my GF of initiating it all, effectively calling her a slut. Even if that was true I still deserve an apology.

 

On the other hand my GF wont stop apologizing.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Let's take a leap and say your brother is telling the truth. So, from his perspective, his brother's gf comes onto him and a) knowing that the two of you look exactly alike and that he had even changed into clothes that matched yours, he didn't bother to ask her if she thought she was talking to you instead of him, and b) let's say he did point this out to her, he still jumped at the chance to cheat with his brother's gf.

 

I wonder what part of that story he thinks in any way makes him look good, absolves him, or means he has nothing to apologize for. He doesn't sound at all like a very moral person and doesn't even seem to care about you at all. Most people would at least apologize for betraying a family member in such a way. I think he's very self-serving and basically narcissistic.

 

 

 

That's the problem with this whole story and the way it is told here.

 

As the brother never faces his own concern over which brother is which, he has every right not to have that question/concern cross his thoughts.

 

The girlfriend, on the other hand, must have at least as much responsibility for discerning exactly who she's fondling as the twin brother did for telling her anything.

 

Now if this same girlfriend wandered into their shared home, and into her boyfriend's bedroom and bed, THEN and only then, she is free of knowing any responsibility for discerning in advance who she's going to bang there.

 

Outside of that, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee needed to know definitively who she was squeezing, touching, approaching before she did so.

 

If you approach some woman at a mall, who looked from behind just like the girlfriend you arrived there with, youuuuuuuuuuuuu are still guilty of assault when you grope that woman only to find out that it wasn't your girlfriend.

 

This mentioned girlfriend cannot be NEW to the idea of needing to take special efforts to identify her boyfriend. So she's at least as guilty as the twin brother, and perhaps even more so. (she could have assaulted the non-boyfriend before he even had a chance to make his identity clear) and just because HE's male, and SHE's female, does NOT make the scenario ANY different that way than would be the case if the twins were female and the then-boyfriend were male.

 

Imagine a boyfriend who dates one of two twin sisters... approaching the other one (if only by mistake) and grabbing her breasts or the like perhaps because then-he is a little drunk.... Nobody in his right mind would be blaming the non-dating twin female for the incident. ('he grabbed my breasts {for the fifth time in two weeks?}, so this time I banged him just to get him in trouble with my sister')

 

And a twin dressing like the other twin is NOT at all freakish, so that really doesn't wash here either.

Edited January 1, 2016 by SincereOnlineGuy

[anika99]

That's the problem with this whole story and the way it is told here.

 

As the brother never faces his own concern over which brother is which, he has every right not to have that question/concern cross his thoughts.

 

The girlfriend, on the other hand, must have at least as much responsibility for discerning exactly who she's fondling as the twin brother did for telling her anything.

 

Now if this same girlfriend wandered into their shared home, and into her boyfriend's bedroom and bed, THEN and only then, she is free of knowing any responsibility for discerning in advance who she's going to bang there.

 

Outside of that, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee needed to know definitively who she was squeezing, touching, approaching before she did so.

 

If you approach some woman at a mall, who looked from behind just like the girlfriend you arrived there with, youuuuuuuuuuuuu are still guilty of assault when you grope that woman only to find out that it wasn't your girlfriend.

 

This mentioned girlfriend cannot be NEW to the idea of needing to take special efforts to identify her boyfriend. So she's at least as guilty as the twin brother, and perhaps even more so. (she could have assaulted the non-boyfriend before he even had a chance to make his identity clear) and just because HE's male, and SHE's female, does NOT make the scenario ANY different that way than would be the case if the twins were female and the then-boyfriend were male.

 

Imagine a boyfriend who dates one of two twin sisters... approaching the other one (if only by mistake) and grabbing her breasts or the like perhaps because then-he is a little drunk.... Nobody in his right mind would be blaming the non-dating twin female for the incident. ('he grabbed my breasts {for the fifth time in two weeks?}, so this time I banged him just to get him in trouble with my sister')

 

And a twin dressing like the other twin is NOT at all freakish, so that really doesn't wash here either.

 

None of the above matters when it comes to the brother. It doesn't matter if she knew who he was or not because even if she was 100% fully aware that she was fondling the brother and not her bf, the brother was still wrong for making out with his twin's gf. The only concession is that both the brother and the gf agree that she is the one who approached him and initiated which means at least he didn't actively plot and plan to fool around with her, but rather went along in the moment,unless we believe the insinuation that he brought a t-shirt to the party that was similar to the t-shirt the OP was wearing solely for the purpose of changing into it later and fooling the gf but that sounds pretty far fetched although I guess anything is possible. In any case he should have has the integrity to push her away even if she was throwing herself at him, and since he didn't do that, why isn't he apologizing to is brother?

 

However, I too wonder why the gf was so quick to assume that the twin was her bf, considering that she is fully aware that her bf has a twin that is almost 100% identical to him. They are always hard to tell apart and now they even both have shaved heads. OP what happened immediately before they started making out? Did your gf just grab him and start making out or did your brother actually do or say something to deliberately mislead your gf about his identity?

[bathtub-row]

To me, based on the fact that the brother changed clothes that matched his brother's, then it was perfectly logical that gf assumed she was with the right guy. Secondly, the fact that no correction was made on the part of the wrong brother was probably further proof to her. In other words, in her mind, there was no reason to question who she was with.

 

I once walked up to a guy from behind while he was talking to a group of people and looped my arm in his because, from behind, he looked exactly like my husband. Same height, build, hair color. I never once noticed this until that day. This guy was a friend of ours and he turned to me in complete shock at what I had done. We all laughed pretty hard about it. But, given that experience, I have to wonder why the wrong brother didn't react in the same way. His deceit was very deliberate.

[lollipopspot]

To me, based on the fact that the brother changed clothes that matched his brother's, then it was perfectly logical that gf assumed she was with the right guy. Secondly, the fact that no correction was made on the part of the wrong brother was probably further proof to her. In other words, in her mind, there was no reason to question who she was with.

 

It seems logical to assume that, because I sincerely doubt that in the first 2 seconds of their meeting he was feeling her up. I think there would have been at least some small conversation or buildup where her assumption that it is the OP is being confirmed/not corrected.

[Jon96]

However, I too wonder why the gf was so quick to assume that the twin was her bf, considering that she is fully aware that her bf has a twin that is almost 100% identical to him. They are always hard to tell apart and now they even both have shaved heads. OP what happened immediately before they started making out? Did your gf just grab him and start making out or did your brother actually do or say something to deliberately mislead your gf about his identity?

 

I feel the need to defend my GF a little here. I can totally understand how the mistake could have been made. I was wearing a white t-shirt with a black print of an eagle facing right on it. My brother was wearing a red t-shirt. He changed into a t-shirt that was white with a blue print of an eagle facing left. Like I said, almost identical. When she went looking for me and saw "me" with my white t-shirt there would be nothing that would suggest I need to be sure. At least that's how I see it.

 

Most people were inside but my brother and a few others were outside. The others left and he was outside alone. He was just sitting back in a chair by the fire when my GF saw him. She came up from behind and started kissing his neck, he pulled her around onto his lap and they kissed and then suggested they move to a more discreet location. Of course she agreed thinking it was me all along.

 

When some random person was kissing his neck I understand he had no control over that but once she was on his lap and they were face to face that's when he should have said "oh ****" and stopped. He knew (I dont care how drunk he was) that he shouldn't be doing that. She thought she was with me so had no reason to stop or second guess herself.

 

Sorry if I sound a little protective of her but I truly believe it was not her fault. If the situation was reversed I don't think I would have done one thing different.

[road]

I feel the need to defend my GF a little here. I can totally understand how the mistake could have been made. I was wearing a white t-shirt with a black print of an eagle facing right on it. My brother was wearing a red t-shirt. He changed into a t-shirt that was white with a blue print of an eagle facing left. Like I said, almost identical. When she went looking for me and saw "me" with my white t-shirt there would be nothing that would suggest I need to be sure. At least that's how I see it.

 

Most people were inside but my brother and a few others were outside. The others left and he was outside alone. He was just sitting back in a chair by the fire when my GF saw him. She came up from behind and started kissing his neck, he pulled her around onto his lap and they kissed and then suggested they move to a more discreet location. Of course she agreed thinking it was me all along.

 

When some random person was kissing his neck I understand he had no control over that but once she was on his lap and they were face to face that's when he should have said "oh ****" and stopped. He knew (I dont care how drunk he was) that he shouldn't be doing that. She thought she was with me so had no reason to stop or second guess herself.

 

Sorry if I sound a little protective of her but I truly believe it was not her fault. If the situation was reversed I don't think I would have done one thing different.

 

 

 

 

I could never forgive your brother.

[whichwayisup]

So he kisses exactly like you? I am betting somewhere along the line your gf figured out it wasn't you. She should "know" your taste, smell etc.. Unless you and your bro wear the same cologne and deodorant? He's a shi.t for doing this, he knew it was wrong.

 

Just keep in mind though, bro's are for life and as much as he hurt you (has he ever done anything like that before, or treated you badly?) eventually you have to forgive him. Just to keep the peace in your family. Doesn't mean you two have to go back to being best friends and close, but enough that you can be in the same room without wanting to punch him.

[lollipopspot]

So he kisses exactly like you? I am betting somewhere along the line your gf figured out it wasn't you. She should "know" your taste, smell etc.. Unless you and your bro wear the same cologne and deodorant?

 

Nah, in that environment it's completely understandable she might now know. People don't kiss the same every time.

 

Just keep in mind though, bro's are for life and as much as he hurt you (has he ever done anything like that before, or treated you badly?) eventually you have to forgive him.

 

If the story is correct, the guy sexually assaulted someone. I might forgive a betrayal, but this is criminal behavior

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

[SincereOnlineGuy]

None of the above matters when it comes to the brother. It doesn't matter if she knew who he was or not because even if she was 100% fully aware that she was fondling the brother and not her bf, the brother was still wrong for making out with his twin's gf. The only concession is that both the brother and the gf agree that she is the one who approached him and initiated which means at least he didn't actively plot and plan to fool around with her,

 

 

 

Your point doesn't wash in light of the fact that the girlfriend may have committed a CRIME in the way which everyone agrees this all played-out (her initiating).

 

The brother, twin or not, did not commit a crime in the process.

 

 

And the part about twins and t-shirts does not wash (as a mark against the brother) in light of the simple fact that, while you and your random neighbor don't intentionally wear indiscernible clothing in too many scenarios, it is PERFECTLY NORMAL (and typical) for identical twins to do so, particularly at social gatherings.

 

 

 

What our twin (the OP) is guilty of, is (the very common) seeing his girlfriend in that perfect light when it is clearly not appropriate to do so in this case.

 

The rest of us typically point out that "blood is thicker than water" in cases like these, but we don't even have IDENTICAL DNA to further underscore the priority here.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I feel the need to defend my GF a little here. I can totally understand how the mistake could have been made. I was wearing a white t-shirt with a black print of an eagle facing right on it. My brother was wearing a red t-shirt. He changed into a t-shirt that was white with a blue print of an eagle facing left. Like I said, almost identical. When she went looking for me and saw "me" with my white t-shirt there would be nothing that would suggest I need to be sure. At least that's how I see it.

 

Most people were inside but my brother and a few others were outside. The others left and he was outside alone. He was just sitting back in a chair by the fire when my GF saw him. She came up from behind and started kissing his neck, he pulled her around onto his lap and they kissed and then suggested they move to a more discreet location. Of course she agreed thinking it was me all along.

 

When some random person was kissing his neck I understand he had no control over that but once she was on his lap and they were face to face that's when he should have said "oh ****" and stopped. He knew (I dont care how drunk he was) that he shouldn't be doing that. She thought she was with me so had no reason to stop or second guess herself.

 

Sorry if I sound a little protective of her but I truly believe it was not her fault. If the situation was reversed I don't think I would have done one thing different.

 

 

 

 

You're just... typical (of most any boyfriend), but wrong.

 

 

it doesn't matter whether that was your twin brother, an army drill sergeant, or the ice cream man.

 

Your girlfriend has zero right to approach someone who had NOT consented TO it, and touch them sexually. She had no more right to do that, than I do to approach your mother and touch her sexually without her permission.

 

 

Now if your mother dressed up like my (unrelated, dissimilar) girlfriend to help lure me into the commission OF that crime, then I might at least have SOME line of defense (flimsy as it may be). BUT as your girlfriend *knew* she was at a party at which two people shared the same DNA, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and she alone was still responsible for (at least not committing a crime during the evening).

 

By your own description here, your girlfriend committed a crime.

 

(and if that remains unclear to you - go to a nearby shopping mall and walk up to anyone and begin kissing them on the neck without their permission... )

 

 

We understand the reason for your lack of objectivity over this, but your lack of objectivity IS your greatest hurdle at this point.

 

 

 

The apology is clearly owed to your brother BY the girlfriend, before anything else.

 

 

Your parents should probably consider how they'd feel if they'd had twin daughters, one of which was sitting alone at a party, and was fondled and groped without her permission... and then they should urge you to break-up with the criminal.

 

 

Jan and Jen are a couple of hotties who share the same DNA... they attend a party together, and get separated... and later Jan is alone, sitting in a chair by the fire... and some guy who had not been invited to touch Jan sexually... walked up and "started kissing her neck".

 

 

The first thing we do is go after the criminal, and stop blaming the victim. Something else we do, in time, is wonder why Jen left Jan at the party before this all took place.

[bathtub-row]

I think it's unfair to blame the gf, saying she should know his smell, kiss, etc. People are not that consistent and we're not all aware of certain subtleties. I agree with Jon. She had no idea she was with the wrong guy, and the shirt and shaved heads were the key factors here.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Nah, in that environment it's completely understandable she might now know. People don't kiss the same every time.

 

 

 

If the story is correct, the guy sexually assaulted someone. I might forgive a betrayal, but this is criminal behavior

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

 

 

Um, no, the only person who committed a crime here, was the girlfriend, and she even admits as much.

 

It would even be fair for an identical twin brother to believe that his brother's girlfriend was one person who *knew* some way to tell them apart. So in such a scenario, he bears even less responsibility for imagining a "mistake".

 

 

He's there, minding his own business, "alone"... and someone approaches HIM... so some of his thinking has to be "She MUST know it's ME (the brother)... as SHE's the one I *KNOW* would know..."

 

 

AFTER she committed the crime that was her approach... then we're just back to a parallel to the Loveshack stories we read every day, where some woman wants to cheat on her boyfriend, and does... The twin brother never knows whether or not the girlfriend wants HIM-him, but he is surely correct in thinking that she of all people would knoooooooooow (to even bother telling them apart).

 

 

 

And why would you cite a link to wikipedia which lists nothing relevant to the situation described in this thread? In one case, a woman was "sleeping in a dark basement" (when the perp arrived) ... and in this thread, a man was alone in a chair by a fire, at which point you wrongly believe that the victim arrived and began by committing a crime.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I think it's unfair to blame the gf, saying she should know his smell, kiss, etc. People are not that consistent and we're not all aware of certain subtleties. I agree with Jon. She had no idea she was with the wrong guy, and the shirt and shaved heads were the key factors here.

 

 

(and the boyfriend's brother "had no idea" that it wasn't her intent to give (the brother) a spin, to see how she liked him)

 

The girlfriend still committed a crime.

 

 

What you say is akin to a man firing a bullet into a crowd of people intent upon hitting a certain target and instead killing an innocent 3rd party... and then not blaming the man because he had no idea the bullet killed the wrong guy.

[anika99]

You're just... typical (of most any boyfriend), but wrong.

 

 

it doesn't matter whether that was your twin brother, an army drill sergeant, or the ice cream man.

 

Your girlfriend has zero right to approach someone who had NOT consented TO it, and touch them sexually. She had no more right to do that, than I do to approach your mother and touch her sexually without her permission.

 

 

Now if your mother dressed up like my (unrelated, dissimilar) girlfriend to help lure me into the commission OF that crime, then I might at least have SOME line of defense (flimsy as it may be). BUT as your girlfriend *knew* she was at a party at which two people shared the same DNA, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and she alone was still responsible for (at least not committing a crime during the evening).

 

By your own description here, your girlfriend committed a crime.

 

(and if that remains unclear to you - go to a nearby shopping mall and walk up to anyone and begin kissing them on the neck without their permission... )

 

 

We understand the reason for your lack of objectivity over this, but your lack of objectivity IS your greatest hurdle at this point.

 

 

 

The apology is clearly owed to your brother BY the girlfriend, before anything else.

 

 

Your parents should probably consider how they'd feel if they'd had twin daughters, one of which was sitting alone at a party, and was fondled and groped without her permission... and then they should urge you to break-up with the criminal.

 

 

Jan and Jen are a couple of hotties who share the same DNA... they attend a party together, and get separated... and later Jan is alone, sitting in a chair by the fire... and some guy who had not been invited to touch Jan sexually... walked up and "started kissing her neck".

 

 

The first thing we do is go after the criminal, and stop blaming the victim. Something else we do, in time, is wonder why Jen left Jan at the party before this all took place.

 

You are making some really bizarre twists and turns here in an effort to somehow pin this on the GF.

 

Your comparing this to walking up to a complete stranger and kissing them is ridiculous and nowhere close to this situation. The girl thought she had consent because she thought she was kissing her bf. Sure the twin wasn't at fault for the initial kiss and one couldn't even fault him for sitting there in stunned silence for a bit but then he actively participated in the kissing and fondling and at that point he was in the wrong.

 

Even if the gf knew he wasn't her BF and she was consciously betraying her bf, this twin also made the decision to betray his brother and he needs to be held accountable for that. His only possible defense would be that he was so drunk he didn't know that the girl he was making out with was his brother's gf but that would be pretty far fetched considering she did not have a twin sister there and I don't think that's what he's claiming anyways.

 

And beside the brother did consent to the groping and kissing.

Maybe not the initial kisses on his neck but the moment he enthusiastically responded and reciprocated was him giving his non-verbal consent. You are making up nonsense about the twin brother being assaulted, as even he is not making such an absurd claim. Consent doesn't have to be verbal and he definitely gave non-verbal consent.

 

OP in light of the additional information you provided and the way you have explained everything I'm leaning to towards believing your gf really did think your brother was you. The people suggesting she should have been able to tell by smelling and identifying which kind of alcoholic drink your brother had on his breath (this one was truly laughable) or by knowing how you kiss are victim blaming.

[Jon96]

If the story is correct, the guy sexually assaulted someone. I might forgive a betrayal, but this is criminal behavior

 

The story is correct and we are well aware of the implications.

 

Your girlfriend has zero right to approach someone who had NOT consented TO it, and touch them sexually

 

I'm not really impressed with the tone of these posts and I don't want to get in a fight on a forum so I will just point out a few flaws and leave it at that.

 

My GF thought she was approaching me. She has every right to do that, in fact she has my implied consent to touch me whenever she pleases. As far as she knew she was not approaching someone "who had not consented to it", she was approaching me.

 

He's there, minding his own business, "alone"... and someone approaches HIM... so some of his thinking has to be "She MUST know it's ME (the brother)... as SHE's the one I *KNOW* would know..."

 

You must have missed the post where I explained that even our parents can't tell us apart. I'm sure if anyone could tell twins apart it would be their parents before the GF's.

 

(and the boyfriend's brother "had no idea" that it wasn't her intent to give (the brother) a spin, to see how she liked him)

 

I'm not sure how you live your life but I hope it's not to these standards. If my brothers Gf or any of my friends GF's came and made a move on me you would be right to say that I would have no idea that they didn't want to give me a "spin".

 

The thing is though that I absolutely would not just accept the advance and go along with it. I would be stopping it and if it was a mistake I might leave it at that but if she was doing it deliberately I would be telling her BF.

 

I'm not sure of your logic in saying that if someone approaches you you have the right to continue on with it even knowing the person has a partner.

[road]

So he kisses exactly like you? I am betting somewhere along the line your gf figured out it wasn't you. She should "know" your taste, smell etc.. Unless you and your bro wear the same cologne and deodorant? He's a shi.t for doing this, he knew it was wrong.

 

Just keep in mind though, bro's are for life and as much as he hurt you (has he ever done anything like that before, or treated you badly?) eventually you have to forgive him. Just to keep the peace in your family. Doesn't mean you two have to go back to being best friends and close, but enough that you can be in the same room without wanting to punch him.

 

 

 

 

That brother made himself an OM.

 

 

There must be NC, no contact with all OM forever.

[Wewon]

What is an OM?

[bathtub-row]

What is an OM?

 

It typically means "other man", as in a married woman sleeping with the OM. The same as OW means the "other woman".

 

In this case, the term doesn't really make any sense.

[Robert]

Folks, let's stay on topic to the OP and not another member's viewpoint. The OP has already addressed that with his on topic response in rebuttal and in a respectful manner.

 

Thank you,

 

~ V

[pureinheart]

OP, I'm not sure how much your thread has progressed, although did read some of the first page.

 

There are a lot of identical twins in my family. I know a lot of identical twins also... I can't speak to the 'drunk' part of this situation as I can see a little where that might make a difference. IMO it's easy to find some difference where identical twins are concerned, especially in an intimate relationship.

 

This would be my suggestion... it's easy to see you don't want to loose your gf or your brother, so believe both of them and let it go for the sake of everyone involved. Sometimes justice comes in time, the guilty one always rears their ugly head at some point. Don't let this break up your family.

[Taramere]

Jon96, you sound like a guy who has a very sensible head on his shoulders who should probably trust his own judgement on this one re who to trust. I would have thought that identical twins whose own parents often can't tell them apart would be so used to correcting other people's mistakes that it would become second nature to do so...and that the risk of one twin's partner making a romantic mistake leading to embarrassment would be something to be particularly alert to.

 

There was sexual contact here. What you do know is that your brother knew exactly who he was having that sexual contact with. If he had sexual contact with your gf in the knowledge that she had mistaken him for you, that's a serious issue. However people want to argue on here regarding the rights and wrongs, I think we probably all know how the authorities would realistically be liable to perceive this one. They'd almost certainly regard your brother as the wrongdoer in this scenario.

 

His defence, if it came to that, would surely be "I thought she knew it was me she was kissing, rather than my brother." Putting myself in your gf's shoes and assuming that your instincts (that she's being truthful here) are correct, I'm not surprised she feels violated. To kiss what you believe to be your boyfriend, engage in intimate petting and then discover that it's actually his brother would be horrific.

 

You're in a very unenviable situation right now. However much of a sh*t he's been, and however angry, he's still your twin brother and that's a bond that must make this particularly nightmarish for you. He's not going to apologise to her. You sound like a smart guy, presumably your brother isn't stupid either. He must know that if he apologises to your girlfriend then presumably that could get him into crap....inasmuch as that apology could be used as evidence against him. Your gf probably doesn't want to go to the authorities, but at the same time she would want some resolution to this which your brother (for reasons of self preservation) isn't going to give.

 

I suppose all you can really do is discuss that with your gf and make it clear that the next step is her decision. The extent to which you support her in that decision (if it involves going to the authorities) is up to you. Not an easy call to make, but the important decisions here aren't really yours to make. The issue of whether or not your gf is going to make a report to the police about this is probably the main hurdle to be faced right now. I don't think you can even begin to resolve this messy situation until that decision (and any follow up action) has been taken.

[Mr. Lucky]

What you do know is that your brother knew exactly who he was having that sexual contact with.

 

To me, this is the only salient issue in the entire account and makes the fact they're identical twins irrelevant.

 

Here's two facts:

 

1). My brother looks nothing like me. People have a hard time believing we're from the same DNA.

 

2). Drunk or sober, I'd never kiss, feel up or have sex with his GF regardless of the circumstances of initiation.

 

That's not what brothers do.

 

Any forgiveness should be based on your - and your GF's - timetable and comfort level...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited January 4, 2016 by Mr. Lucky

[SincereOnlineGuy]

makes the fact they're identical twins irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

The fact that they are identical twins is irrelevant.

 

 

Thus, the girlfriend had no right whatsoever to commit what was certainly assault or battery as she approached someone sitting alone and minding his own business.

 

You cannot just walk up and kiss someone as an intro, when you don't previously have their permission for so doing.

 

 

The girlfriend wants to use the fact that they are twins as her excuse, and it simply has no bearing on anything other than, potentially, her sincere intent. Yet that doesn't change the fact that she made the first move onto someone who had not consented to the physical approach, and who was potentially too drunk to give consent no matter what she initiated.

[turnera]

Say what? She had no right to approach her BOYFRIEND and start making out?