Fiancee says things that trigger arguments

[mo mo]

Let's see if this has any more responses than my other thread: I think I know what's going on there, I just wanted confirmation.

 

 

OK so this is about my relationship.

 

 

We've been together for a little over 4 years, lived together for 3, and are going to get married next summer. I used to be a member of this forum years ago when I was single and looking for something serious. I met this wonderful woman and I have been happy, for the most part.

 

 

I say "for the most part" because something has been going on for a while, and I don't see it getting any better.

 

 

She says or does things that trigger arguments. We could be discussing an issue that isn't that serious, and then instead of trying to meet me halfway on the issue, she will say something extreme that escalates the argument- to the point where she will take the engagement ring off.

 

 

Example: I'll explain how I don't like issue x. I try to explain in a civil manner why issue x bothers me, hoping that she'll understand where I'm coming from, and she will take that into account for the future. Instead, she will say, "well if you don't like x, then you can forget about me ever doing y again". Then I'll say "that's not what I'm asking, I'm just saying you need to work with me on x" she goes "no it's going to be no y from now on, end of story".

 

 

At this point I get frustrated and ask her to try to meet me halfway, because that's what happens in healthy relationships. Then at this point it will escalate even further to the point where she will cancel plans/take off the ring/threaten to go to her mother's.

 

 

I don't think this is fair to me, nor is it healthy to our relationship. The thing is, she won't take any advice from me because I'm "the enemy" so to speak. I doubt she tells her friends about these issues, or at least she isn't 100% honest about them- she's not the type to share these kind of private issues.

 

 

I want to make her see that if she wants to be serious about the relationship, she needs to meet me halfway at times, and respect my boundaries.

 

 

For instance: one time early in the relationship I called her something. I was just being playful, didn't mean anything by it, never meant to offend her. She got really upset however. I recognized this as a "hot button" and since I didn't want to see that reaction, I never called her that again. I care about what she thinks, I want to see her happy, and I respect her boundaries. All I want is for her to return the favor.

[xxoo]

Basically, you're describing a power struggle. Learn to speak about your own needs using "I" statements without the "you need to" statements. Try asking for her help with your concern, rather than approaching it as something she's doing wrong and needs to change. Appeal to her desire to feel empowered by approaching her as a partner whose good ideas are needed to resolve the issue.

[d0nnivain]

Put this wedding on hold immediately NOW before you can't get your money back. Get into marriage counseling. Taking the e-ring off is a huge red flag. She's playing brinkmanship games. Every time she does that -- or threatens divorce over these same issues later when you are married -- it's a sign that she doesn't know how (or want) to communicate effectively to maturely resolve a conflict. It will chip away at the foundations of your relationship until it collapses. Do not marry until you both improve your communication

[dobielover]

Can you give an example of what X and Y are? Because I can think of examples where her bringing up a Y in response to an X are fair and reasonable, particularly where finances and sex are concerned.

[SoleMate]

I recommend checking out the work of David Burns, such as Feeling Good Together. Be prepared to learn that making changes in the way you communicate with her is one of the best ways to solve the problem.

[mo mo]

I recommend checking out the work of David Burns, such as Feeling Good Together. Be prepared to learn that making changes in the way you communicate with her is one of the best ways to solve the problem.

 

I see what you and xxoo are saying.

 

 

That said, I'm not too fond of the idea of working around her issues, so to speak. It sounds like you are asking me to take the high road and be the stronger one in these situations by removing my feelings and using calculated communication. I'd like to think we are equals in this relationship but as time has shown me, we really aren't.

[BlueIris]

Can you give an example of what X and Y are? Because I can think of examples where her bringing up a Y in response to an X are fair and reasonable, particularly where finances and sex are concerned.

 

More specifics are definitely needed.

 

There are certain circumstances in which I might respond the way she does. For instance, if I typically did your laundry for you and you said, “the way you do laundry bothers me,” after asking you why or how, and depending upon your answer, I might answer, "ok, I won’t do it any more." If you then said, "that's not what I'm asking, I'm just saying you need to work with me on how you do laundry," I might respond, “No, that’s ok. You can just do it.” So it’s important to know the specifics.

 

Very generally, it’s important to look at who is asking for something and who is giving something. The person who is doing something for the other person has more say in whether they’ll change or keep doing it than the person who is asking for something does. The person who is giving always has the option of just stopping.

 

Also, I agree that this is a power struggle issue and that you two could read books and articles to help or use counseling learn to work things out rather than arguing and escalating. You never have to argue or escalate.

[anika99]

You are being to vague for anyone to know exactly who is triggering arguments. It could be that your fiancé is immature and and unable to listen with an open mind. Anytime you try to talk to her about issues she feels attacked and comes out swinging. Instead of seeing the issue as mutual problem for both of you to work on together, she thinks you are telling her that the problems in the relationship are her fault and her responsibility. She feels like you are telling her she is a bad partner and a bad person.

 

Now the question is, why is she receiving your words that way? It could be something that stems from her childhood where she was overly criticized, made to feel bad about herself and made to feel responsible for the feelings of others. That's a strong possibility. There is also the possibility that you are triggering the arguments by the way you are going about communicating. There are definitely wrong buttons that can be pushed during a difficult conversation. Saying 'you always' or 'you never' is always a bad idea. 'You make me feel like....' is another bad one. Most importantly, if you want to be listened to, then you have to be willing to listen too. If communicating with her means you want to tell her what she's doing wrong but you aren't willing to accept that maybe you have areas that need improving as well, you are not going to get very far.

[GingerVixen]

She sounds really immature in my opinion, and you're assertive and trying to have a mature, collected conversation with her.

 

When she throws a tantrum again, when she even takes off her ring, you say

 

"You know what? Take off the ring if you want. I KNOW I love you and want to be with you and I want a decent, mature conversation with you. There is no way a long term relationship can work without a little disagreement every now and then, and we have to deal with this in a rational way. Now if you wanna be immature and act this way everytime we have a little argument, do whatever you want. When you decide not to be childish again, tell me. "

 

Then you turn your back and leave her there. And go NC until she realizes she's acting like a spoiled brat.

 

Seriously, that's how people like her learn how to be assertive and mature.

[mo mo]

More specifics are definitely needed.

 

There are certain circumstances in which I might respond the way she does. For instance, if I typically did your laundry for you and you said, “the way you do laundry bothers me,” after asking you why or how, and depending upon your answer, I might answer, "ok, I won’t do it any more." If you then said, "that's not what I'm asking, I'm just saying you need to work with me on how you do laundry," I might respond, “No, that’s ok. You can just do it.” So it’s important to know the specifics.

 

Very generally, it’s important to look at who is asking for something and who is giving something. The person who is doing something for the other person has more say in whether they’ll change or keep doing it than the person who is asking for something does. The person who is giving always has the option of just stopping.

 

Also, I agree that this is a power struggle issue and that you two could read books and articles to help or use counseling learn to work things out rather than arguing and escalating. You never have to argue or escalate.

 

Didn't want to give specifics because the issue last night was squashed, but I have a feeling something similar will happen in the future.

 

Basically, yesterday she was hanging out with her friend all day, I went to work (she is off from work this week). I called her after work to ask what she was up to, she was still with friend. I asked if she ate, she said yes, she ate earlier. I asked when she will be home, she wasn't sure. I said ok, have fun.

 

I ran errands, got home, showered, started making my own dinner. She got home as I was finishing up and asked what is she supposed to eat. I said I thought she was good, but then it turned into us not having communication. I said ok, you're right, but you should have a backup plan, because it feels like it's always my responsibilty to figure out what we are going to eat.

 

That's when she said something about not cooking anything for me anymore again. That's when I said I didn't think that was right for her to say that, in a relationship we have to meet halfway, etc. That's when the ring came off

 

Anyway, like I said, this has been settled, but I keep thinking about it, because this morning she was talking to her brother, I overheard some if the conversation. She kept repeating what their plan was for a certain situation over and over again. That's when I was wondering, "why does she have to keep repeating?" What doesn't he get?

[anika99]

Okay, based on that extra info, if it's true and accurate, I would say that your fiancé is immature and unreasonable. You asked her about her food situation before you made any plans. She told you she ate and didn't even know when she would be home. So you understandably fed yourself and then she had the audacity to complain about it. Then had a ridiculous over the top reaction to your suggestion that she take some responsibility for feeding herself. I don't see this getting better anytime soon. She is behaving like a child. Do you want to marry a child?

[d0nnivain]

Her reaction to such a petty thing was over the top. She has communication issues & her threatening to end everything every time you have a fight is out of proportion.

 

DH does the food thing to me all the time. I'll say are you hungry. He'll say no I ate a late lunch. I'll say do you want me to make something anyway. He'll say no. I'll make myself something & as soon as the aroma wafts through the house, he comes into the kitchen looking to be fed. So I always make enough that I can split mine or last night I just left all the left overs on the counter after fixing my plate so he could help himself. Assume this will be an on-going pattern & learn to share.

 

Get some communications counseling before you move forward with the wedding. A booked called Fight For Your Marriage opened my eyes to why threatening to end the relationship is one of the most destructive things you can do. http://www.amazon.com/Fighting-Your-Marriage-Best-seller-Preventing/dp/0470485914 At the very least make her read it before you spend another dime.

[mo mo]

Okay, based on that extra info, if it's true and accurate, I would say that your fiancé is immature and unreasonable. You asked her about her food situation before you made any plans. She told you she ate and didn't even know when she would be home. So you understandably fed yourself and then she had the audacity to complain about it. Then had a ridiculous over the top reaction to your suggestion that she take some responsibility for feeding herself. I don't see this getting better anytime soon. She is behaving like a child. Do you want to marry a child?

 

I fully expected responses like this one.

 

She isn't like this all the time. Last time this kind of thing happened was months ago.

 

She is very ambitious and a hard worker. Going for a master's in education while holding down a full time teaching job. Very caring for friends and family.

 

She has a lot going for her, just not in these kinds of discussions. If she were childish I wouldn't be with her.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Have you noticed a pattern where these outbursts occur when shes hungry?

 

Not that its an excuse, but I have a hard time managing my emotions when my blood sugar dips. I almost laughed reading your description of the event because it is something I could totally see myself doing when Im starving, though I probably would stop before taking off the ring. My bf has a good strategy for handling this issue.... he hands me a snack.

 

If low blood sugar is not partly to blame, then I have to wonder if she is trying to sabotage he engagement. Did you have these issues before you got engaged? Maybe she has cold feet.

[Mr. Lucky]

Get some communications counseling before you move forward with the wedding. A booked called Fight For Your Marriage opened my eyes to why threatening to end the relationship is one of the most destructive things you can do. http://www.amazon.com/Fighting-Your-Marriage-Best-seller-Preventing/dp/0470485914

 

My MC had a theory that no relationship or marriage is the same once that threat is uttered by either party. Regardless, to drop it that casually is a huge red flag...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

She has a lot going for her, just not in these kinds of discussions. If she were childish I wouldn't be with her.

 

That's a bit like saying she's a part-time arsonist but overall a very responsible member of the community, Doesn't make sense.

 

In the situations you've described, she's acting like a child. Supply your own adjective...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mo mo]

That's a bit like saying she's a part-time arsonist but overall a very responsible member of the community, Doesn't make sense.

 

In the situations you've described, she's acting like a child. Supply your own adjective...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I do agree that it doesn't make sense but I disagree with the implication that she's childish all the time.

 

Let me put it this way: she has a teaching job in one of the worst areas of new York City with a school that specializes in educating at-risk populations. She has a number of emotionally disturbed children, adopted children, children who live in shelters, etc. in her classroom. The stress these kids provide has been unbearable for many teachers and most do not last a year. This is her second year there and not only is she planning on staying, the board has given her bonuses and more responsibility as she is considered to be an exemplary employee.

 

The fact that she has been not only deal with daily issues such as kids fighting, using teachers out, etc., but also prove to be among the best they have in the staff is proof of her sense of maturity, ambition, and responsibility.

 

I think a few posts ago someone said something about her upbringing causing her to react a certain way in these discussions. I think there is definitely something to look into there: I know for a fact that her father has been absent for most of her life and she has a very bad relationship with him. She saw how he didn't do much to sustain the household or marriage and she is terrified of something similar happening to us.

 

Thing is, I'm not her father, and I don't have any of those qualities. I'm in it for the long run, don't know if she really gets that.

[whichwayisup]

She says or does things that trigger arguments. We could be discussing an issue that isn't that serious, and then instead of trying to meet me halfway on the issue, she will say something extreme that escalates the argument- to the point where she will take the engagement ring off.

And...You react, take her bait and then she reacts more? How it stops is...You stop. Don't react. Set your boundaries and tell her that you're going there, or better yet, walk away from the discussion. Don't let things escalate to the point she takes her ring off.

[whichwayisup]

Let me put it this way: she has a teaching job in one of the worst areas of new York City with a school that specializes in educating at-risk populations. She has a number of emotionally disturbed children, adopted children, children who live in shelters, etc. in her classroom. The stress these kids provide has been unbearable for many teachers and most do not last a year. This is her second year there and not only is she planning on staying, the board has given her bonuses and more responsibility as she is considered to be an exemplary employee.

 

Okay, so if one of her bosses wants to have a discussion with her, or they need to point out something to her that could improve and help her teaching, how would she react to that? Ask her. Listen carefully to her answer (and I'm assuming she is professional and does NOT react like an immature brat like she does with you) and let her know she has to treat it the same way with you as she does at work. Maybe that will open her eyes.

 

Sounds like you two need couples counseling to learn how to listen and communicate in a healthier way. Would she be willing to go with you?

[Mr. Lucky]

Let me put it this way: she has a teaching job in one of the worst areas of new York City with a school that specializes in educating at-risk populations. She has a number of emotionally disturbed children, adopted children, children who live in shelters, etc. in her classroom. The stress these kids provide has been unbearable for many teachers and most do not last a year. This is her second year there and not only is she planning on staying, the board has given her bonuses and more responsibility as she is considered to be an exemplary employee.

 

All props to her, sounds like she's making a huge contribution. My wife taught for a decade in a similar environment, to this day she still gets letters and cards from kids who's life she affected.

 

Having said that, I have a hard time believing she only acts this way with you. Just means she has some room for personal growth - like all the rest of us ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[xxoo]

And...You react, take her bait and then she reacts more? How it stops is...You stop. Don't react. Set your boundaries and tell her that you're going there, or better yet, walk away from the discussion. Don't let things escalate to the point she takes her ring off.

 

Exactly.

 

Also, expect the best and give the benefit of the doubt--all while holding boundaries. In the original situation, you could've given benefit of the doubt and assumed "communication breakdown", and simply offered to make her something. Think how that night would've ended.

[BettyDraper]

Your fiancee needs help with communication and anger management.

I say this as a woman who struggled with similar issues in the past.

Have you ever tried telling your fiance that if she throws the ring at you one more time, she isn't getting it back and there will be no wedding? Sometimes people need consequences to change.

[OldRover]

Put this wedding on hold immediately NOW before you can't get your money back. Get into marriage counseling. Taking the e-ring off is a huge red flag. She's playing brinkmanship games. Every time she does that -- or threatens divorce over these same issues later when you are married -- it's a sign that she doesn't know how (or want) to communicate effectively to maturely resolve a conflict. It will chip away at the foundations of your relationship until it collapses. Do not marry until you both improve your communication

 

Mo mo,

 

Pay attention to the above, that is GOOD advise. If you can't solve such a petty situation LONG before marriage, you'll find that after the wedding it doesn't get any easier... and perhaps a lot harder.

 

This is a HUGE red flag, even if it's occasional. It shows that she is not giving you 110% and you both need to be on that page.

 

First, you both probably need some serious counseling, but getting a good counselor is hard.

 

Second, you both need to establish some rules on ANY disagreement. There's lots out there on how to argue successfully. Never give ultimatums unless that's the absolute last resort (taking the ring off is like that). Always go to bed happy and put off the argument (which is now a discussion) until tomorrow. When you discuss things, don't add things to it (if you don't do this, then I won't do that). She needs to understand that.

 

Something as petty as what am I going to eat for dinner is just plain childish. She needs to grow out of that. When she said that, I might have tried "what would you like" and later, if you would let me know ahead of time, I could have it waiting for you. Give her the message that you're there to do anything she wants, but at the same time, you expect the same from her. It may take awhile to get to that point, but that's the goal.

 

Yes, hold off on the wedding until this is solved.