Old Maids in the future will be men

[thefooloftheyear]

Both of these post mention Harley type (Jax Teller being one).

 

I'm a HUGE Jax Teller fan. Why? Because he's strong and protective. That's extremely attractive, for reasons that are obvious to me. The crime and violence of the show is very unattractive, and I don't watch those scenes!

 

It's easy for me to articulate what masculine features are attractive to me: physical and emotional strength, protectiveness, ability and desire to provide.

 

I'm getting an idea that when a "nice" boy/man sees a masculine man having success with women, he focuses on his perceived bad qualities rather than his good qualities, and conclude that women like him for the negative reasons. That makes no sense.

 

Good post....

 

See bolded...These traits have been slowly devolving from men for some time now..Add to that the fact that technology has turned a lot of guys into types that cant change a light bulb or fix a leaky faucet, and you have a recipe for something very unappealing to most women...

 

I mean, just look around...Grown guys carrying backpacks like a school age kid and getting all jerked off over Star Wars or ComiCon...

 

Most of the fathers of guys my age fixed stuff, built stuff, and prided themselves as types that can protect and provide for their families...

 

I shake a lot of hands and I have big powerful meaty hands...I am absolutely amazed that most guys now have softer and squishier hands than women....

 

TFY

[xxoo]

Honestly, and I am sorry this will offend you...

 

For me it's because they are disingenuous and followers.

 

My opinion, as much as you won't agree, is that they think they're all tough because they went to the store and bought a particular brand of motorcycle and orange and black costume to go along with it.

 

Reeks of being a p*ssy and a follower in my book.

 

All image.

 

They try too hard and aren't as tough as the fake persona they wear.

 

Sorry again. I know you're going to hate me...

 

Had to be honest.

 

I don't hate you for your opinion, but I don't know any Harley guys like this. This is a stereotype.....

 

So much of this thread is stereotypes. Masculine men come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and careers. Good, kind men can be masculine, and can even ride Harleys.

[joystickd]

While I'm genuinely sorry for your experience, one only needs to walk through the halls of a high school to see that masculinity is highly prized. The cheerleaders are with the football players, even now in 2015.

 

How do so many boys completely miss the masculine examples throughout teen years?

They also miss it because a lot of boys at that time haven't found that thing. Thing meaning a situation that can display their qualities that will make them attractive to women.

 

I will use myself as an example. I lost my virginity at 25. I went though high school and college and had buddies that got lots of women. I followed their advice and it never worked for me. At 28 I went back to school and became a nurse. Nurse is a stereotypical female field but in regards to me it was my thing. I met women and had nurses, CNAs, and female family members that were attracted to me. I was mystified how I went from having no luck to now having these women attracted to me and having sex in the parking lot and getting blowjobs while at work.

 

I really thought about it and what it was that nursing was my thing. Some people is sports and some its being out partying. It something you do that demonstrates your masculine qualities and the potential for you to be a relationship partner or even an husband and parent. It's the thing that displays that you are confident. Once you find that then the challenge becomes how to take that into other things that may not be in your comfort zone so you can show those same qualities with those things

[joystickd]

Why do Harley guys get such a bad rap?

 

I'm married to a wonderful Harley guy All his motorcycle enthusiast buddies are equally great guys.

It's the outlaw biker stereotype

[joystickd]

Both of these post mention Harley type (Jax Teller being one).

 

I'm a HUGE Jax Teller fan. Why? Because he's strong and protective. That's extremely attractive, for reasons that are obvious to me. The crime and violence of the show is very unattractive, and I don't watch those scenes!

 

It's easy for me to articulate what masculine features are attractive to me: physical and emotional strength, protectiveness, ability and desire to provide.

 

I'm getting an idea that when a "nice" boy/man sees a masculine man having success with women, he focuses on his perceived bad qualities rather than his good qualities, and conclude that women like him for the negative reasons. That makes no sense.

It's not necessarily features but more like advice.

 

Not really focusing on bad qualities but looking at it like this:

 

I'll pull an example from my life when I had trouble with women. I was raised to be a nice guy so I spent a lot of time getting rejected. I had buddies that got lots of women. They guys I hung with were basically criminals and bad boys. Mentally you ask yourself why and the common theme ends up becoming you are too nice because you see them do things that because of how you were taught to believe are not nice. It happens because to them logically that is what makes sense. You tend to avoid the fundamental reasons of why. For a long time I had that thought. Hell I even ventured in to crime for a while. When I did that and had no success then I really felt lost and it was years before I had that EUREKA! moment.

[Alamo657]

While I'm genuinely sorry for your experience, one only needs to walk through the halls of a high school to see that masculinity is highly prized. The cheerleaders are with the football players, even now in 2015.

 

How do so many boys completely miss the masculine examples throughout teen years?

 

It's not because you witness something that you can reproduce it.

 

Some are born with the right genes and have the right upbringing regarding masculinity.

 

Others struggle all their lives with consistent masculinity because they were raised in a feminine mindset, or lack the genes to pull it off, or worse, both.

[GoodOnPaper]

Skaters are masculine. So are snowboarders. Athletes, risk takers....masculine.

 

I've got kids. My boy is masculine and popular with the girls (he skates AND plays football ). My girl is feminine and popular with the boys. She likes masculine boys--athletes. The natural magnetism of feminine and masculine is alive and well from what I can see.

 

If boys aren't getting a masculine example at home, I really don't know how they are missing it in school. Even in elementary school, the tallest, strongest, fastest, boldest boy is King.

 

If you don't naturally have the athletic talents and a personality type and tastes that fall within the narrow range of what's considered acceptable, the situation becomes much more complex and frustrating.

 

I lettered in varsity sports eight times in high school but that wasn't enough to erase that at my core I was/am a nerdy, introverted, sensitive science-type who saw many of the qualities that the popular, masculine guys exhibited as negatives.

 

My path followed the nice-guy pop psych message to a tee: Men will attempt to make themselves stand out from their competition for mates. Being nicer and more sensitive -- trying to be the opposite of the "jerks" that I didn't like -- seemed to be the most natural and easiest way to do that. And just like that, you are on the friendzone-filled "nice guy" road.

 

The notion that the same assertive, masculine mindset and approach to dating and sex would work for opposite types of men can be very difficult to wrap one's head around.

[xxoo]

It's not necessarily features but more like advice.

 

Not really focusing on bad qualities but looking at it like this:

 

I'll pull an example from my life when I had trouble with women. I was raised to be a nice guy so I spent a lot of time getting rejected. I had buddies that got lots of women. They guys I hung with were basically criminals and bad boys. Mentally you ask yourself why and the common theme ends up becoming you are too nice because you see them do things that because of how you were taught to believe are not nice. It happens because to them logically that is what makes sense. You tend to avoid the fundamental reasons of why. For a long time I had that thought. Hell I even ventured in to crime for a while. When I did that and had no success then I really felt lost and it was years before I had that EUREKA! moment.

 

This is a good explanation. Of course becoming a criminal didn't work, because women aren't actually attracted to criminal behavior.

 

Do you have thoughts on what could've brought that EUREKA! clarity at a younger age? What would be helpful for current young men? I feel like women try to explain this a lot by stressing confidence and leadership and going for something and how attractive these qualities are, and struggling dudes dismiss it insisting "bad boys". And then I tend to assume laziness and unwillingness--which really are unattractive.

[William]

Topic check:

 

This thread is apparently about an increasing number of men becoming eligible for 'old maid' status due to changing demographics in recent decades, apparently due to more male babies surviving and thriving than in the past.

 

Threads about masculinity, masculine and feminine men, their success or failure, their challenges, their lot in life, can certainly be discussed in threads of those titles, as well as the effects of feminism on men. This isn't the thread for that, rather how more and more men surviving to an old age creates a class of 'old maids'. Thanks in advance for your cooperation with this moderation directive. As of this bookmark, no deletions or sanctions.

[nittygritty]

I think this could be true but for different reasons. 1 in 42 boys are now being diagnosed with autism compared to 1 in 169 girls born in the US. I have a nephew that has it and it's really heartbreaking. I worry about his future and the future of all kids that have autism. I don't know if more boys are being born than girls but if 1 in 42 of them has autism it could certainly result in a larger number of men not ever marrying.

[xxoo]

In generations past, mothers and parents would bring up their daughters on how to primp and preen themselves and how to dress attractively and how to act and behave in a manner that would make her competitive for the available males.

 

 

Boys on the other hand were pretty much brought up that as long as they were a good person (aka "nice") and as long as they were employed and somewhat sober, they would be able to get a nice and attractive wife and for most men of that caliber, it turned out to be true.

 

 

That will not be true going into the future however. It will not be enough for a man to be nice, sober and employed to get a wife of any desirability.

 

 

The future man is going to have to develop a lot more desirable traits that simply being decent, employed and sober. He is going to have to be fit, well groomed and styled, well dressed, well educated, very well employed, have good social graces and interpersonal skills, will have to be competitive and dominant and will have to be able to both work collaboratively with other men as well as be able to fight off other men and keep other men out of his mate's pants.

 

 

Men of the future are going to have to put as much time, energy and effort into being attractive to opposite sex as what our great grandmothers did to get men's attention.

 

The first part of this quote, regarding girls, isn't really accurate ime. Girls (naturally? socially?) study other girls and young women to learn about how to be attractive to boys. Girls idolize more attractive and successful girls, and want to be like them, look like them, act like them.

 

Boys don't do the same, I guess? Rather, they look at more successful boys as the enemy?

 

If there was ever a time when men only needed to be nice and provide an income to attract a mate, that was probably a historical anomaly. For most of history, men and women both have needed to step up their game to attract a desirable mate. For most of us, it's a strong drive and well worth the effort. Each individual will need to decide if it's worth the effort, but the attitude that no effort should be needed is definitely a disadvantage. I'd say that, if anything, it's going to be men going back to putting in as much effort as our great-grandfathers did, and did happily.

 

The autism issue is a very real problem, and will unfortunately result in many women looking for suitable mates in the future, as well. Depending on the level of disability, many of the men with autism may not be capable of or even interested in relationships with women.

[dichotomy]

[/url]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

 

 

In a study around 2002, the natural sex ratio at birth was estimated to be close to 1.06 males/female.[7] In most populations, adult males tend to have higher death rates than adult females of the same age (even after allowing for causes specific to females such as death in childbirth), both due to natural causes such as heart attacks and strokes, which account for by far the majority of deaths and also to violent causes, such as homicide and warfare (for example, in the USA as of 2006, an adult non-elderly male is 3 to 6 times more likely to become a victim of a homicide and 2.5 to 3.5 times more likely to die in an accident than a female of the same age),[8] resulting in higher life expectancy of females. Consequently, the sex ratio tends to reduce as age increases, and among the elderly there is usually an excess of females. For example, the male to female ratio falls from 1.05 for the group aged 15 to 65 to 0.70 for the group over 65 in Germany, from 1.00 to 0.72 in the USA, from 1.06 to 0.91 in mainland China and from 1.07 to 1.02 in India.

[dichotomy]

Another interesting thing I read recently was that (in the United States) women getting college educations were expected to outnumber men getting college degrees.

 

Conversely (at least in some countries) I still see women outliving men. Generally speaking I think they take better care of their health and suffer less issues. In my town and area, there are lots of of widows.

Edited December 30, 2015 by dichotomy

[joystickd]

The first part of this quote, regarding girls, isn't really accurate ime. Girls (naturally? socially?) study other girls and young women to learn about how to be attractive to boys. Girls idolize more attractive and successful girls, and want to be like them, look like them, act like them.

 

Boys don't do the same, I guess? Rather, they look at more successful boys as the enemy?

 

If there was ever a time when men only needed to be nice and provide an income to attract a mate, that was probably a historical anomaly. For most of history, men and women both have needed to step up their game to attract a desirable mate. For most of us, it's a strong drive and well worth the effort. Each individual will need to decide if it's worth the effort, but the attitude that no effort should be needed is definitely a disadvantage. I'd say that, if anything, it's going to be men going back to putting in as much effort as our great-grandfathers did, and did happily.

 

The autism issue is a very real problem, and will unfortunately result in many women looking for suitable mates in the future, as well. Depending on the level of disability, many of the men with autism may not be capable of or even interested in relationships with women.

Like I said before boys look to boys but attraction we all know is different in men and women. When a boy looks to a boy he gets the simple answer which doesn't provide true insight to how and why the attraction happened. A boy gets from a boy well I did this. The sad part is usually doing that doesn't work and thats because there is a lot more involved in attracting a woman than a woman attracting a man. Also the attraction process is different for woman than men.

 

Males do see other males as competition but not the enemy. That happens after years of constant rejection from women. Your are looking at this from a woman's perspective.

[carhill]

Here's how it goes for another world power and industrial nation, Russia:

 

This age bracket, if reflective of history, shows men to be in the slight minority and explained, in part, why I was so popular there when dating and seeking a spouse.

 

25-54 years: 45.8% (male 31,928,886/female 33,319,671)

 

If one is older, it gets more unbalanced, with an increasing dearth of men:

 

55-64 years: 13.8% (male 8,408,637/female 11,287,153)

 

If one is fortunate enough to live to age 65 in Russia, this, where there are more than two times the number of women as men:

 

65 years and over: 13.3% (male 5,783,983/female 13,105,896) (2014 est.)

 

In addition, Russia is experiencing a net death rate, where deaths are exceeding births, so their population is declining. So, Russia would provide a current counterpoint to the assertion that men will become or are becoming the new old maids. However, in any country, men can certainly choose to live alone at any age and, as society's and parent's socializing evolves, perhaps it will come to pass regardless of the actual numbers. In my age group, I can't imagine any of my friends choosing to live their lives out alone. In fact, just this past weekend I was admonished, of course in a friendly manner, for my choices in that regard. I see things differently. Will that view result in a changing of the old maid guard irrespective of births of boys and girls? IDK. I guess we'll find out.

 

 

 

Source, republished from the CIA world factbook.

[carhill]

The future man is going to have to develop a lot more desirable traits that simply being decent, employed and sober. He is going to have to be fit, well groomed and styled, well dressed, well educated, very well employed, have good social graces and interpersonal skills, will have to be competitive and dominant and will have to be able to both work collaboratively with other men as well as be able to fight off other men and keep other men out of his mate's pants.

 

IDK about the future but can relate this back, oh, 20 to 30 years ago in my demographic, perhaps even earlier, where men already outnumbered women in the reproductive age groups. I think we're around 52 men to 48 women now in my age group, perhaps a bit closer for the younger folks. I've already seen signs of social reversal where I'm moving to, where the numbers are essentially reversed and women, even casually, are paying far more attention to me because, well, there are more single women and a single man my age and in my style is noticed. The road from notice to a life partnership, however, respects your quote, in that women can be very demanding in those aspects and some definitely are. Hey, good on them. If I don't measure up, it's a fishing pole and some quiet time in the forest. OK.

[Popsicle]

I don't know, I'm already an old maid.

[Popsicle]

You are right, though, oldshirt, that single wifeless men cause more problems (namely violence) in society. I just watched a documentary the other day about how ISIS recruits mostly young shiftless men by promising them a wife and a job. In ancient days an overpopulation of males usually was paired down by wars.

[Tayla]

You are right, though, oldshirt, that single wifeless men cause more problems (namely violence) in society. .

 

May we have data to support that general view point? Have you calculated in the Ages? Because in a few years the Seniors of the nations will out number. And when that happens the only thing they are going to be arguing over is parking spaces and discounts. To convey that a "single" Man is violent takes in varying ranges of ages. Most commonly seen in the Teens on thru the 30's. After that I think they just plum get tuckered out.

 

Here are my summations: They live, and they choose. Some will prefer to stay single and some will be forced by culture , economy , health or even their habitat. A Good example is the Alaska Frontier, where the ratio speaks volumes about this topic. Most warriors are okay surviving off the land and making do.

[Popsicle]

Single YOUNG males go to war...

[dichotomy]

and in the future realistic AI sex robots will be available anyway. Nobody will need anyone we will all be "alone" and connected

[lollipopspot]

oh never mind

[thefooloftheyear]

You are right, though, oldshirt, that single wifeless men cause more problems (namely violence) in society. I just watched a documentary the other day about how ISIS recruits mostly young shiftless men by promising them a wife and a job. In ancient days an overpopulation of males usually was paired down by wars.

 

 

What a bargain.....:lmao:

 

TFY

[Quiet Storm]

My thoughts...

 

I think since porn is so readily available, teenagers/young guys who aren't naturally good with women get their needs met with porn.

 

When my husband and I were in high school in early 90s, porn was not a part of daily life. Kids might steal a porn tape from their dad or older brother, but other than that, we just had Skinemax. Teenage guys had all this testosterone and it prompted them to pursue girls. Their sex drive pushed them to learn to flirt, make girls laugh, go in for the kiss, etc.

 

These days, I think many young guys use porn so much that it dulls their natural drive to pursue women. They are content enough with the satisfaction and variety that porn provides them, so they don't feel that desire & hunger that prompts guys to make moves and take risks with women. If they are jerking off to porn all through high school, they are missing out on so much practice with women and tolerance for rejection that will benefit them later in life.

 

The guys that are naturally good with women will always attract lots of girls, as they always have. They couple up or become lifelong bachelors enjoying a variety of women. But the guys who aren't naturals often end up awkward, lost and depressed because they never pushed themselves out of their comfort zone. They are sensitive to rejection because they didn't get that toughness that comes from being rejected, brushing themselves off and trying again.

 

Young guys who aren't naturally good with women, seem to just avoid the hassle of trying and getting rejected because they can substitute with porn. They waste the years where they are eager, bright eyed and bushytailed. Then years go by and when they are ready to settle down, they have no experience or confidence with women. Their energy and drive fades, and they end up old maids.

 

I'm definitely not anti porn- I think it can be fun and harmless for many people. I just think guys shouldn't rely on porn to the point that they aren't driven to pursue real women. I think they should tell the boys in sex ed how porn could affect them if they rely on it as a substitute.

 

.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Quiet Storm

[loveweary11]

Quietstorm: wait until they have good sex robots!