Ladies, Why is it so hard for you to just say "no"?

[FNKP7M85]

Every time I manage to find someone I'm interested in and approach it seems to end in the same way...with me being alone and confused.

 

Unless my comprehension abilities are so off that I'm totally misreading their verbal & nonverbal cues, initially they've generally been very agreeable. That is until it comes time for details. Then suddenly they seem to become too busy for a relationship and I'm left standing there like a fool.

 

Outright rejection would be much more preferable than what I seem to experience. I even go so far as to tell them that if they'd rather not get involved I'm completely OK with it.....just say so. Rejection is black or white and something I can at least wrap my head around.

 

What I get instead is "sure" or "OK" which apparently/ eventually means that they will have excuses for not taking me up on my offer.

 

To add to my frustration, I frequently run in to these girls and they are just as congenial and warm as they were when I first asked them out. Even chatty. I'm not sure what to make of all this.

 

It's all very confusing and being emotionally confused is not a mindstate that I care to be in.

 

I supervise a department of women and only women and we get along great. Our outlying departments are predominantly female too and I do just fine with almost all of them. I even supervise one of my exes and we still consider ourselves to be friends. So I'm not sure where the disconnect is when it comes to working out relationships beyond the coworker/ friend from work type that I live every day.

 

I've had older/ bolder women offer unsolicited compliments regarding my personality and looks. And for what it's worth, a few have even go so far as to tell me that they found me attractive and if they were 20 years younger, etc. etc.... So that is encouraging ....and I think that they're being sincere. Now if I could just find someone that I want to share these attributes with....someone in my own age group would be nice too;)

 

Help Meeeeeeeee.....

[Heather4]

I wish I could help you but I am literally having the same problem with guys. id rather be outright rejected than played with

[basil67]

You've left me a little bit confused. Are you getting first dates and then the girls lose interest? Or are you getting no dates at all?

[Heather4]

Im a female. Guys take me on 2/3 dates then lose interest. And I never hear from them again

[road]

When asking out be direct, short, and to the point. Such as: mid week, let's go out to a movie this weekend.

Now she has to give a direct response.

[FNKP7M85]

OK I'll follow up w. examples:

 

Situation #1: I decide to ask a slightly younger (mid-40's) widow out. I stop unannounced mid day at her house because I know her well enough/ confident enough to just do so.

 

I expect a yes or no at her door step, but instead am invited in and have 5 hr. visit. She does 95% of the talking and I buy pizza because of hunger. Apparently she's cool w. me because she's in her pajamas and doesn't feel the need to change (she works MN's). Also let me bring my dog in to her house to play w. her two dogs. Thought that was very cool.

 

In the course of conversation she invites me for Xmas dinner w. her & her kid & his GF.

 

Not sure how I feel about her after leaving. She says she's sworn off men but is cool w. friendship and not ruling out the possibility of it becoming more. None of this was prompted & was totally coming from her.

 

A couple days later I check back and see if she wants to take the dogs for a walk. She says sure, give her a call before I go. When I do she says "sorry can't" dishwasher leaked all over and made a mess. Thinking it'd kind of an A-hole move to just go on w/o her I offer & stop by to fix it. Don't over play the act & go for the walk on my own.

 

Might of asked one more time....can't remember.

 

Any way, I got this vibe that the Xmas invite would not actually happen. Thought so when she first said it. The day before Xmas eve I still hadn't heard anything (I had alternatives and kind of needed to know) so I text saying to the effect "hey, still have plans? need to know, have other offers but would prefer to spend it w. you but am OK if you'd prefer to be alone w. your family, etc."

 

She winds up having a legitimate for not having dinner (got called in to work.....healthcare) and it doesn't happen.

 

So I do know that I've been blown off. A loose invite and a few informal text messages just to confirm this fact go nowhere & has me closing the book.

 

I just have to ask any female readers what's up with that if you care to try to explain it. I didn't impose myself on her, tried to be chivalrous and all that BS. Why couldn't she have just done me a favor and said "no" to begin with and spare me the headgames? I'm not crushed by this.... But definitely baffled. I see her at work and act like nothing happened.....because it didn't.

Edited January 3, 2016 by FNKP7M85

[LookAtThisPOst]

Wow...now ain't that somethin'. You know, in the good ol days an invite into her home and doing what she did, would indeed mean you were "In" as a new boyfriend pretty much.

 

But now, I've experienced the same as you, in a diff. way. With women agreeing to dates, but making the plans nebulous, but she'll make invites and plans with you, too...just to keep you ON the hook and keep YOU thinking "She hots for me!" all the way you keep calling her back to "firm" plans that never get "firmed.", but she keeps coming back makign even MORE unintended dates/plans with you.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Don't worry,you'll eventually find her out and about cuddling with another man that is not you.

 

 

 

OK I'll follow up w. examples:

 

Situation #1: I decide to ask a slightly younger (mid-40's) widow out. I stop unannounced mid day at her house because I know her well enough/ confident enough to just do so.

 

I expect a yes or no at her door step, but instead am invited in and have 5 hr. visit. She does 95% of the talking and I buy pizza because of hunger. Apparently she's cool w. me because she's in her pajamas and doesn't feel the need to change (she works MN's). Also let me bring my dog in to her house to play w. her two dogs. Thought that was very cool.

 

In the course of conversation she invites me for Xmas dinner w. her & her kid & his GF.

 

Not sure how I feel about her after leaving. She says she's sworn off men but is cool w. friendship and not ruling out the possibility of it becoming more. None of this was prompted & was totally coming from her.

 

A couple days later I check back and see if she wants to take the dogs for a walk. She says sure, give her a call before I go. When I do she says "sorry can't" dishwasher leaked all over and made a mess. Thinking it'd kind of an A-hole move to just go on w/o her I offer & stop by to fix it. Don't over play the act & go for the walk on my own.

 

Might of asked one more time....can't remember.

 

Any way, I got this vibe that the Xmas invite would not actually happen. Thought so when she first said it. The day before Xmas eve I still hadn't heard anything (I had alternatives and kind of needed to know) so I text saying to the effect "hey, still have plans? need to know, have other offers but would prefer to spend it w. you but am OK if you'd prefer to be alone w. your family, etc."

 

She winds up having a legitimate for not having dinner (got called in to work.....healthcare) and it doesn't happen.

 

So I do know that I've been blown off. A loose invite and a few informal text messages just to confirm this fact go nowhere & has me closing the book.

 

I just have to ask any female readers what's up with that if you care to try to explain it. I didn't impose myself on her, tried to be chivalrous and all that BS. Why couldn't she have just done me a favor and said "no" to begin with and spare me the headgames? I'm not crushed by this.... But definitely baffled. I see her at work and act like nothing happened.....because it didn't.

[FNKP7M85]

Relieved that I'm not alone in my confusion brother. It probably wouldn't have bothered me much except I'm minus two-for-two and have gone down the same way both times. I'll follow up with that one a little later.

 

I'm pretty sure there's nothing nefarious going on w. her...I respect her for her outspokeness (not necessarily something I would normally be attracted to) and actually approached because I figured she'd be up-front w. me. I even told her this......But left out the part about attraction...ha, ha.

 

So basically she's always been too busy to make good on anything she's agreed to do. Yeah, that's blowing someone off.

 

She made it clear it was a friend's only thing and she likes her space.....I get that and it is exactly what I want/ how I'd like to pursue a relationship. Been suffocated myself in the past. But geeze us, but if this is what I can expect from someone I hold in high regard for honesty, what chance do I have w. the average female?

 

Thought that maybe I was trying too hard/ too often.....But they were just casual approaches..... And a few texts Merry Xmas, Happy NY and all that ****. Wondering why she asked me for my # and gave me hers if she didn't want me to get a hold her once in a while.

 

Then there are the mixed signals.....or am I making this up? She wasn't too ashamed to tell a mutual friend over a call she got while visiting that I was there. Or bringing it up casually in front of a co-worker. She's not out my league in any sense.....So it's not like she's mocking me. Besides, that wouldn't be like her. It's straight up flaky behavior.

 

It's probably been said before on this forum; "why couldn't I have just been born gay?" Seriously, I love women but kind of wish I didn't.

 

 

Wow...now ain't that somethin'. You know, in the good ol days an invite into her home and doing what she did, would indeed mean you were "In" as a new boyfriend pretty much.

 

But now, I've experienced the same as you, in a diff. way. With women agreeing to dates, but making the plans nebulous, but she'll make invites and plans with you, too...just to keep you ON the hook and keep YOU thinking "She hots for me!" all the way you keep calling her back to "firm" plans that never get "firmed.", but she keeps coming back makign even MORE unintended dates/plans with you.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Don't worry,you'll eventually find her out and about cuddling with another man that is not you.

[BlueIris]

One possibility is that the first drop-by was a bad start. Never stay longer than a half an hour when you stop by unannounced. It is an etiquette mandate to be a gracious host or hostess when someone appears at your door. But it is also an etiquette mandate not to stay too long. Maybe a book on etiquette or manners would help explain what's going on.

[Imported]

Are all these women you ask out under your supervision at work? Or work where you work?

 

I have no problem dating women at work, but I mostly don't because......there's a whole world of women outside of work.

 

If they are all women at your work, I'd have to guess that they don't just look at you as a guy they don't want to date, but as a guy they have to see at work the next day and the day after and the day after that.

[FNKP7M85]

I don't think so because I tried to excuse myself a couple times......and didn't need to do any talking, she took care of that for me...mostly about herself, enthusiastically... And the dinner invite was definitely unexpected (do I like turkey or ham? What kind of pie?, etc.) I didn't bring anything up. She asked for my # as I was getting ready to leave, etc. I could've been cut loose at any time....I hadn't planned on staying, was actually ready to get out of there, and if she was annoyed she had a funny way of displaying it. Nope, I don't think that is it.

 

I kind of walked out of there feeling like "am I sure I want to do this?"

 

Just really wondering about my social skills/ ability to read someone. Maybe it is me...I saw something that's not really there? Just can't figure out how the above as it happened was a way of conveying "Get Lost!"

 

We're talking about mature adults too. Never thought I'd be through this HS **** at my age. Welcome to the world of dating?

 

One possibility is that the first drop-by was a bad start. Never stay longer than a half an hour when you stop by unannounced. It is an etiquette mandate to be a gracious host or hostess when someone appears at your door. But it is also an etiquette mandate not to stay too long. Maybe a book on etiquette or manners would help explain what's going on.

[FNKP7M85]

Yes, they are....But not under my supervision. I'm the guy who's considered OK amongst the hourly wage-slaves despite being in management.

 

It's an extremely small and isolated community with few employers. So most the quality singles work there......and it's an extremely limited pool. I have it from reliable sources that my eligibility is higher than most for where I live.....which may not mean much if you knew where I live.

 

Do you think it could be something that simple? It's like they are pretty fired up about at first but then have second thoughts.

 

I've been informed that I can be a little direct....A question for any females reading this, do you find directness combined with courtesy off-putting? It's not like I'm walking up them and saying "do you wanna?"

 

Are all these women you ask out under your supervision at work? Or work where you work?

 

I have no problem dating women at work, but I mostly don't because......there's a whole world of women outside of work.

 

If they are all women at your work, I'd have to guess that they don't just look at you as a guy they don't want to date, but as a guy they have to see at work the next day and the day after and the day after that.

[JustBoston]

I wish I could help you but I am literally having the same problem with guys. id rather be outright rejected than played with

 

This applies to both sexes: People cannot handle the truth.

 

Many years ago, back when I thought honesty is the best policy, I went on a blind date with a chick who, my bad luck, happened to be overweight.

 

To me (very personal opinion) being overweight is a weakness which extends beyond the physical one. I am not going to expand on here, but suffice to say that I do not date such women.

 

After our very short date she wanted to meet me again and I politely refused. She asked me for the reason and I gave her one of these "I didn´t feel spark" type of thing. She knew something was fishy an keep asking and I made the mistake of being honest.

 

You can guess what followed: Insults, hatred, and shouts.

 

And yeah yeah sure we are all the exceptions and none of us would act like that because we are oh so civilized but think about it: Is it worth it?

 

Boys and girls, forget about the words and look at the actions: If I like someone, I call them back right away. If I do not call, I do not like you. Full stop.

 

Specially for guys: Next time you are on a date ask the girl about her past relationship. Chances are she will tell you about that loser piece of this and that, the one she loved so much, the one she had so much sex with, but he was a creep so unreliable and so unpredictable and never wanted to commit, so she had to end it up but still to this day she cannot stop thinking about it.

 

Then carefully take mental notes of the characteristics of that individual (unreliable etc...) and understand the connection between her having sex with him and not stop thinking about him, and him being "a creep".

 

And the understanding is simple: If you want to get what he got, act like he did.

[Kamille]

If I'm going to be rejected, I prefer direct rejection too, as do the majority of us.

 

Turns out though, when it comes to handing out rejection both men and women tend to prefer to use "indirect rejections". They either pretend they're busy or go silent.

 

Think about it, we do it all the time. A friend you don't very much like invites you to do something - how would you reject them? Would you tell them "sorry bud, I don't like you" or would you say "I'm busy". Studies have shown that most of us reject people indirectly, be it in romantic, professional or just friendly relationships.

 

Short answer: it's cultural. We use indirect rejection more often than direct rejection in most aspect of our lives. Aziz Ansari does a pretty good job summing up the research in his recent book.

[FNKP7M85]

You're right. I can tell I'm being rejected and perhaps over analyzing it. And I know the point is moot and maybe my expectations are too unreasonable.

 

This behavior is probably a good indicator of character and I should thank my lucky stars that I didn't get roped in. Communication wasn't something that flourished in my previous partners....been there and don't care to go thru it again. You know what I mean, the partner who expects you to read their mind and gets pissed if you either don't notice or guess wrong.

 

I'd be lying if I said I have never done this to girls in the past....in my teens. It was an ******* thing to do and I regret the hurt that I inflicted on others to this day. I'm more of a self-aware ******* these days. Can anyone say Karma?

 

I'm excellent at putting relationships behind me when I've determined the time has come....just trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense at all.

 

Aziz nails it every time too.

 

 

 

If I'm going to be rejected, I prefer direct rejection too, as do the majority of us.

 

Turns out though, when it comes to handing out rejection both men and women tend to prefer to use "indirect rejections". They either pretend they're busy or go silent.

 

Think about it, we do it all the time. A friend you don't very much like invites you to do something - how would you reject them? Would you tell them "sorry bud, I don't like you" or would you say "I'm busy". Studies have shown that most of us reject people indirectly, be it in romantic, professional or just friendly relationships.

 

Short answer: it's cultural. We use indirect rejection more often than direct rejection in most aspect of our lives. Aziz Ansari does a pretty good job summing up the research in his recent book.

Edited January 3, 2016 by FNKP7M85

[Toodaloo]

Sounds to me like you are doing something or saying something that is putting them off.

 

Met a guy yesterday. Good looking, tall... complete and utter *pick an insulting swear word*.

 

He was rude, obnoxious, self opinionated and it was a total waste of 2 hours of my life. I would rather have been cleaning toilets it was that bad. Even the old couple sat on the table next to us tried to "save" me by engaging me in conversation etc... It was just awful. He however thinks he is absolutely wonderful... I can normally find something good to say about people but this one? Nah. Total and utter twassock.

 

He even had the gall to slag off Beethoven and Vivaldi, Coldplay and Queen... There was nothing that this guy liked and no one he thought was better than him. His head was so far up his own back side it was frightening.

 

So to put it bluntly there is no point at all in me doing anything other than go silent on him. He would not listen to anything I said anyway. So I am not wasting my time.

 

If this is happening time and time again there must be something that you are doing or saying that makes them back off.

[FNKP7M85]

Hmmmm. Not sure that's it.

 

Played my cards very carefully w. another girl from work. Thought I was in....She agreed to go out. Said she was interested in outing w. a fun non-threatening group outing. But wouldn't commit. After a couple attempts pulled the plug and let it die.

 

Funny thing she occasionally approachs me and chats it up to the point that I'm tempted to try it out again (I know better. Not going to happen) Originally thought she despised me until a co-worker pushed me to approach her and she turned out to be very nice....I think. She doesn't seem too uncomfortable to talk in the hallway (not the best place to get to know someone)

 

I think Imported's thoughts might be closer to the truth. There's all the drama of the work environment. Maybe a workplace relationship isn't such a great idea once they've given it some more thought. Plus I'm mutual friends with some of their friends. I suspect one of those mutual friends may have feelings for me. The little voice tells me so. The little voice also screams out danger at times. Never totally ignore the little voice.

 

Sounds to me like you are doing something or saying something that is putting them off.

 

Met a guy yesterday. Good looking, tall... complete and utter *pick an insulting swear word*.

 

He was rude, obnoxious, self opinionated and it was a total waste of 2 hours of my life. I would rather have been cleaning toilets it was that bad. Even the old couple sat on the table next to us tried to "save" me by engaging me in conversation etc... It was just awful. He however thinks he is absolutely wonderful... I can normally find something good to say about people but this one? Nah. Total and utter twassock.

 

He even had the gall to slag off Beethoven and Vivaldi, Coldplay and Queen... There was nothing that this guy liked and no one he thought was better than him. His head was so far up his own back side it was frightening.

 

So to put it bluntly there is no point at all in me doing anything other than go silent on him. He would not listen to anything I said anyway. So I am not wasting my time.

 

If this is happening time and time again there must be something that you are doing or saying that makes them back off.

[Heracles]

There is so much I can say to help you understand and hopefully better your chances but you wouldn't listen. How do I know this? Reading your thread has demonstrated that you've ignored all the comment that could be helpful to you.

 

You're are using the wrong set of books and if you expect Women to give you applicable and effective answers to help you have sex with them, you still don't get it.

 

To conclude I will say this:

1- no man who is trying to have sex with a woman will sit 5 hours in 1 day to listen to her ramble about random things.

2- an interaction starting with, sex might lead to a good friendship or even relationship but starting with friendship can only lead to lackluster sex at best.

[Toodaloo]

So to put it bluntly there is no point at all in me doing anything other than go silent on him. He would not listen to anything I said anyway. So I am not wasting my time.

 

Hmmmm. Not sure that's it.

 

Couldn't resist.

 

Let this one go. You work with her, she is not interested. There is no up side to this at all.

 

Go get a hobby or do some voluntary work or something and meet someone doing that. At least then you will have fun even if you do't meet a woman there.

[FNKP7M85]

Not sure that I follow you.

 

Enlighten me.......

 

There is so much I can say to help you understand and hopefully better your chances but you wouldn't listen. How do I know this? Reading your thread has demonstrated that you've ignored all the comment that could be helpful to you.

 

You're are using the wrong set of books and if you expect Women to give you applicable and effective answers to help you have sex with them, you still don't get it.

 

To conclude I will say this:

1- no man who is trying to have sex with a woman will sit 5 hours in 1 day to listen to her ramble about random things.

2- an interaction starting with, sex might lead to a good friendship or even relationship but starting with friendship can only lead to lackluster sex at best.

[FNKP7M85]

Yeah....I figured it out and am over it.

 

If anything, I need to learn to not project.

 

V

Couldn't resist.

 

Let this one go. You work with her, she is not interested. There is no up side to this at all.

 

Go get a hobby or do some voluntary work or something and meet someone doing that. At least then you will have fun even if you do't meet a woman there.

[GravityMan]

I think you need to learn to be able to better read queues from women to know which ones you should be asking out. There is a big difference between women getting along with you and women trying to have sex with you. You are asking out the wrong ones, and probably asking them out in the wrong way.

 

Agreed, especially with the bolded. (Although I think you meant to say "cues", not "queues".)

 

OP, recognizing the body language and the verbal/nonverbal/direct/indirect social cues of women (and people in general) is a vital ability to have in just about any social situation, including dating. A significant amount of communication is indirect. You yourself probably communicate subtly and indirectly far more than you realize.

 

If you can learn how to decently read women and build some rapport before deciding whether to ask them out, then you may find yourself getting turned down far less often. A guy who is good at that stuff will often already have a strong gut feeling as to whether she'll say yes or no before he even makes his move. If the vibe or dynamic between him and her is bad, unattractive and/or unromantic in some way, he'll sense that, he'll refrain from asking her out, and (if he has decent social skills) he'll try to gracefully bring the conversation to an end.

[Maggie4]

She says she's sworn off men but is cool w. friendship and not ruling out the possibility of it becoming more. None of this was prompted & was totally coming from her.

 

That's a pretty big NO right there.

[Maggie4]

It's not like I'm walking up them and saying "do you wanna?"

 

How come men don't do that more?

[mirandasbuddy]

When you've been cursed at, called a bitch or "frigid," had all of your flaws recited, etc. just because you were honest enough to tell a man no, you learn to try to avoid it and be vague.

 

If a man wants direct no's he needs to not be an ass when he gets one. Same for women.