First emails in OLD, examples & insight.

[Hyperfocal]

Hello, so I am transitioning back into OLD. In the past I've had an 8% response rate to my first emails. I am a hetero male, mid 30's. My method is to message only top candidates of interest, not bulk, i.e. 2 per week or less. So I am trying to adjust the following two I am about to send out for getting a response. Once I get a response, I am very solid at getting to a date or rel if desired, no issues there, just trying to fix the first step... I haven't posted my profile, but it's good, it's mature, it's interesting. Thanks for any notes of advice!

I tweaked the sentence structure of these a little for privacy, content conceptually identical.

CANDIDATE PROFILE #1) "I work a lot, I really like it, and actually that is why I moved from (European location) to (University name) for my research in medicine. Even though I seem to work a lot, I balance live and keep free time.

 

I am good at, eh, not too good at, photography, & exploring new places, & dealing with travel to and from Europe. I'm pretty good at staying active and outdoors.

 

I keep a broad musical interest & collection of books. I recently read (title of book), it was rather good. I eat pretty much anything."

OUTBOUND EMAIL FROM ME:

Hi, it seems like we have much common ground after reading your profile. I also work at (name of univ) in research, and enjoy a lot of outdoor exercise.

 

What sort of outdoor activities do you enjoy?

 

I look forward to hearing from you!

 

(my name)

 

 

CHALLENGES: I know this lady is of limited English, it is hard to be too witty or eloquent with her language level, yet she is bright... My outbound message strikes me as too plain? Insight?

------------------

CANDIDATE PROFILE #2)

"I grew up in (Coastal town), moved to (my city) for work. I love to work out, usually intense stuff, be outside, and attend concerts. I enjoy food, both cooking and eating it.

 

I work in a (type of science) laboratory while working thru grad school. I recently completed a (womans mud runner event) in September.

 

While I am not perfect at it, I do enjoy playing pool and raquetball, perhaps more practice is in order?

 

I am a great listener, dream interpreter , and giver of advice."

OUTBOUND EMAIL FROM ME:

Hi, I like your interests. I haven't done a (mud event) event yet, but I do spend a lot of time outdoors.

 

I found it comical that you mention interpreting dreams. So last month I had this dream that involved (known dictator), some snow, and a little diplomacy. It was fascinating, yet seemingly meaningless to me. I guess the neurons in my head were having a party that night!?

 

I look forward to the opportunity to get to know you better. Have you ever eaten at (Restaurant name)?

 

(my name)

CHALLENGES: Is my (true) dream introduction a witty engagement, or too much too soon? Is my conclusion that is a half invitation to dinner timed and delivered ideally? Other ideas?

 

Thanks!

[five2nine]

I think those are very decent first messages. I wouldn't mind receiving a message like that on OLD. At least it shows you put some thought into it.

 

The type of first messages I receive on match consist of:

 

"hi"

"hi how are you"

"hi my name is marc"

"CATS? how many cats....."

 

I usually don't reply to those messages. And I have only one cat >.>

 

Truth be told, I think most people only care about your pictures though.

Edited January 4, 2016 by five2nine

[TheArtist]

I would say they're pretty good openers too. Maybe on the first one you could say what outdoor event you like rather than the generic, 'I like outdoor activities'. Something more like 'I take part in a lot of extreme croquet, what kind of outdoor sport are you into?'

 

That opens it up a little more so she can ask you about the extreme naked fireball croquet you're into.

[hasaquestion]

hmm... if I were you...

 

CANDIDATE PROFILE #1) "I work a lot, I really like it, and actually that is why I moved from (European location) to (University name) for my research in medicine. Even though I seem to work a lot, I balance live and keep free time.

I am good at, eh, not too good at, photography, & exploring new places, & dealing with travel to and from Europe. I'm pretty good at staying active and outdoors.

I keep a broad musical interest & collection of books. I recently read (title of book), it was rather good. I eat pretty much anything."

 

Europe. I bet this is the point which a lot of guys who message her cling onto. Also, its complicated, you don't want to offend. I'd not bring it up in my message.

 

Photography is cool. I'd consider saying something about that in my message. Asking if she takes good profile pictures for the site might be too cheeky but I am so I'd do it.

 

Eats everything? That is worth exploring. Will she eat me? What do you mean the book was good? Was it a good read? Did it taste good?

 

I think "what kind of outdoor activity do you enjoy" is too bland personally. Maybe a similarly formal but more engaging thing to ask is what is the one new place you really would like to explore? That way instead of rattling off information it makes her think. In general you need to make questions count with people. Don't interview.

 

CANDIDATE PROFILE #2)[/b]

"I grew up in (Coastal town), moved to (my city) for work. I love to work out, usually intense stuff, be outside, and attend concerts. I enjoy food, both cooking and eating it.

I work in a (type of science) laboratory while working thru grad school. I recently completed a (womans mud runner event) in September.

While I am not perfect at it, I do enjoy playing pool and raquetball, perhaps more practice is in order?

I am a great listener, dream interpreter , and giver of advice."

 

Why are you offering to go to a restaurant? Sounds like she's begging to get taken out to play billiards if you ask me.

 

Since she says she's good at it, maybe you should ask her for advice on what your first message to her should be? I think that could be funny.

 

Giving her a dream to interpret is a good idea. I think you should have done something more creative with it though. Not just dump the specifics of the dream in there and say you don't know what its about. I'm sure there's a joke in there depending on who the dictator was.

 

And I don't like the restaurant bit. You haven't heard from her and you're offering to take her to a restaurant? Meh. Looks desperate imo. Make her at least open up a bit for you first.

 

***

 

My .02 is that you could stand to write less formal and wordy messages while still being respectful. Maybe people who are closer to your age and female can chime in on that.

[hasaquestion]

I don't mean to tear you down or anything btw, I think you're doing great and putting yourself out there in a mature way not just copy-pasting messages to everyone. Just trying to contribute to the thought process discussion.

[Hyperfocal]

Thanks folks.

 

What I'm gleaning:

1) Go for specifics... outdoor activity, etc. Got it.

2) Less formal, yes my friends have said the same, my intro messages are too formal, my in person self is certainly approachable, working on it!

3) Cut out the half restaurant invite, yep, I thought it might be too direct. (In reality I only message a very small few... if I'm messaging one, I am willing to take her to dinner, no fear here.

 

Candidate #1) The European lady... I work at the same univ as her, and know her full identity. She has poor English and is quite bright. Some of her profile chatter is likely fluff, as she is assimilating to OLD marketing! So I am a little hesitant to ask about some of her "Eats everything? That is worth exploring. Will she eat me?" specifics, as that's just her poor English at work. I happen to know she is a runner, just fyi.

Truth be told, I think most people only care about your pictures though.

True, it's also true for me too when browsing. ( I also tend to glean personality traits from OLD photos, so maybe 60% of my conclusions are photo based.)

 

I have very good photos of me in diverse activities, etc. I am very athletic, and have no scars, tats, 5'11. I do wonder why I seem to only get 8% response (30% actually never read my message or view my profile). Anyone who follows a similar strategy care to share your response rate to messages?

 

Europe. I bet this is the point which a lot of guys who message her cling onto.

So she is from France, American's opinion of the french people is a bit divided, but you think some fellows like that aspect of her? Strong brains and limited English? I can deal with it, but I'd think some guys would say why bother?

 

Since she says she's good at it, maybe you should ask her for advice on what your first message to her should be? I think that could be funny.

I like that, carefully worded, to appear as a joke and not just odd, is nice, thanks!

 

Thanks,

Edited January 4, 2016 by Hyperfocal

[aprilisi]

Very good messages. They show you actually read the profile. My first messages are usually hey, hey (insert generic petname may it be bae, doll or beautiful) how are you. Or the worst hru.

 

Its a good way for you to stand out. Among these lame messages.

[Hyperfocal]

Thanks, I think at this point I have a bit of a consensus on the messages. Now, onto the profile. Here's most of the text. It strikes me as accurate, but less emotionally goopy than some. Hopefully appeals to who I'm looking for. Ideas?

 

************

Summary

I enjoy a complete and content life, relationships with people I treasure, and a career that matches my calling.

 

My life is active, cycling daily and more recently canoeing. My sense of humor is dry, yet sprinkled with optimism. I do not take myself too seriously, am empathetic, and often find a way to keep a conversation going with a variety of types of people.

 

What I’m doing with my life

My career is in mechanical engineering, related to a particle accelerator project. I also help with a non-profit organization that attends to local poverty issues.

 

I’m really good at

I am most talented at throwing pineapple shells really far from the house so they are not noticed!

 

Favorite books, movies, shows, music, and food

I cook fresh food, in a healthy manner often. Seafood, pineapples, and rice are high on my list. My musical preferences are diverse (Lists are too boring for this). Oh, and I know how to sound a Kudu Shofar trumpet! As far as movies, there is something special about 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea; perhaps it's the balance of justice and suffering in the plot that offers food for thought.

*************

Edited January 5, 2016 by Hyperfocal

[normal person]

 

OUTBOUND EMAIL FROM ME:

Hi, it seems like we have much common ground after reading your profile. I also work at (name of univ) in research, and enjoy a lot of outdoor exercise.

 

What sort of outdoor activities do you enjoy?

 

I look forward to hearing from you!

 

(my name)

 

Read it back to yourself as if you were receiving it. Would your interest in this person be piqued based based on the writing alone? Probably not, it needs a lot of personality still. It sounds like a computer wrote it for you.

 

- "We have a lot in common after reading your profile."

Unnecessary to say and too formal. It doesn't sound good when you try to assure her of anything or "sell" yourself. Obviously you read her profile so you don't even have to say that. You could probably omit this whole passage, it's totally unnecessary. Less is more.

 

- "You like X, I also like X."

People are way more complex than you want to give them credit for. Millions of men and women like football, does that mean they all should date? No, there are countless other factors that come into play. Liking the same general thing isn't really a component of compatibility, I don't think. A better method would be to mention the football while showing a bit of personality so it doesn't sound so robotic.

 

- "What sort of outdoor activities do you enjoy?"

Who cares? Was what she wrote in the profile not sufficient enough? You want to make her do work and think of more trivial stuff? If she said "kayaking" would you not be attracted to her all of a sudden? You get the point.

 

 

How about this: Instead of saying "I read your profile and I believe we're compatible. We both like football. What else do you enjoy?" why not something like:

 

"So what do you think about the Peyton Manning HGH allegations? I mean, his forehead is pretty big."

 

Something like that would be my whole message. It accomplishes everything way more efficiently: it's obvious you read her profile without literally saying you did. Humor and personality is displayed, you showed you have a mutual interest without saying "we have a mutual interest" (which makes you seem like a very boring robot)" or trying to convince her on your compatibility, and you engaged her personality and sensibilities so she's not just listing trivial things to you.

 

General rules of thumb:

 

- Try to generate things like laughter, excitement, intrigue, etc rather than just list general information which accomplishes next to nothing.

 

- You're emailing her so obviously you're interested. If you display much more interest, seem eager, or try to convince her of your compatibility, it'll be a turn off. Play it cool. Be curious about her, not eager. Almost make it seem like you're taking a flyer on the profile, and if you like the supplemental info you get in conversation then maybe you might take an interest.

 

- Ask her why she likes things as opposed to just whether or not she does. When you start figuring out what makes her tick, you'll start getting somewhere.

 

Best of luck.

Edited January 6, 2016 by normal person

[normal person]

 

Summary

I enjoy a complete and content life, relationships with people I treasure, and a career that matches my calling.

 

I'd elaborate here in a sentence or two.

 

My life is active, cycling daily and more recently canoeing. My sense of humor is dry, yet sprinkled with optimism.

 

Don't talk about your sense of humor unless you're capable of displaying it. Anyone can say they're funny, it's meaningless. No one's going to believe you until you actually do something funny. It doesn't "take" otherwise.

 

I do not take myself too seriously, am empathetic, and often find a way to keep a conversation going with a variety of types of people.

 

How don't you take yourself too seriously? How are you empathetic? Show, don't tell. It's all meaningless until you can demonstrate it.

 

What I’m doing with my life

My career is in mechanical engineering, related to a particle accelerator project. I also help with a non-profit organization that attends to local poverty issues.

 

What do you like about it? What's challenging about it? What are your thoughts on it? Why is it important to you? Show some personality, don't just tell facts, they're pretty much irrelevant.

 

I’m really good at

I am most talented at throwing pineapple shells really far from the house so they are not noticed!

 

Good, but don't use contractions, they sound way too robotic.

 

Favorite books, movies, shows, music, and food

I cook fresh food, in a healthy manner often. Seafood, pineapples, and rice are high on my list. My musical preferences are diverse (Lists are too boring for this). Oh, and I know how to sound a Kudu Shofar trumpet! As far as movies, there is something special about 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea; perhaps it's the balance of justice and suffering in the plot that offers food for thought.

*************

 

No one really gets excited by what specific food you eat or really anything anyone could write here in a list. Instead of listing it all, maybe just give one or two things with an interesting fact or anec dote. As in "My favorite thing is X because (something funny or interesting).

 

Best of luck.

 

 

 

Very good messages. They show you actually read the profile. My first messages are usually hey, hey (insert generic petname may it be bae, doll or beautiful) how are you. Or the worst hru.

 

Seriously?

 

"Hi, we have the same interests. What else are you interested in?" is in instant delete for me. I probably won't even look at the picture again if that's her first message out of the gate. Merely reading the profile should be expected, not applauded. If she reads a whole profile and can't offer up anything or interesting or insightful to respond with, I don't want to go out with her.

[hasaquestion]

^normal person gets it^

 

Show don't tell. Don't say you have a sense of humor. Be funny. Don't say you love biking. Put up a picture of you at a race in all your gear. Don't say you both like something. Engage her about it.

 

Don't be that guy trying to win people over with the messages, its a waste of time. Messaging isn't about getting her interested, its more about the reveal. If she liked your pictures then she'll be interested. If she didn't she won't.

 

IMO, a good rule of thumb for life (not just dating) is that if you can see someone's aunt asking them a question at a family gathering, then its a bad question. So leave the interview-style line of discussion to her aunt and ask her a real question. I like the HGH one.

 

If she likes your pictures/vibe she'll open up when given the opportunity. She'll say, I like this dude, I want to invest in him and share stuff about me. And you'll get a signal to return the favor.

 

Questions that get to the 'why' behind things are an opportunity for people to really connect. 'What' is for acquaintances.

[Hyperfocal]

Normal Person, thank you very much! You seem to be onto something. What's odd is that I entertain women very well in real life, and after the first message. It's the first message that's an epic fail. Oh, well, Below is a revision of my profile following your tips. By the way, the contractions you mention like "I'm" are form fill at OKC, those are part of the site... all boldface elements are part of the OKC header system.

 

*****

My self-summary

I enjoy a complete and content life, relationships with people I treasure, and an inspiring career.

My life is very active with cycling, canoeing, and occasional hiking. I enjoy being able to keep a conversation going with a variety of types of people.

 

What I’m doing with my life

My career is in mechanical engineering, related to a university particle accelerator project. I am passionate about the scientific quandries we investigate, and more personally, I enjoy the variety of tasks and autonomy that I find at work.

 

I also help with a non-profit organization that attends to local poverty issues.

 

I’m really good at

I am most talented at throwing pineapple shells really far from the house so they are not noticed!

 

Favorite books, movies, shows, music, and food

I really have a thing for cooking yucca root, it is hard to prepare, but the texture is fantastic. Yea, I like music, but I also know how to sound a Kudu Shofar trumpet! As far as movies, there is something special about 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea; perhaps it's the balance of justice and suffering in the plot that offers food for thought.

 

As far as reading, I do that too Most of my reading is in the weekly Economist magazine.

 

The six things I could never do without

Outdoor exercise

Pineapples

NPR radio

Thunderstorms

Introspection

Asking questions

 

You should message me if

If your life is reasonably in order, your life goals include the potential for a relationship.

 

 

********

[kodakgirl]

"Hi, we have the same interests. What else are you interested in?" is in instant delete for me. I probably won't even look at the picture again if that's her first message out of the gate. Merely reading the profile should be expected, not applauded. If she reads a whole profile and can't offer up anything or interesting or insightful to respond with, I don't want to go out with her.

 

Agreed! I don't even look at pics if a message doesn't refer to a single specific thing in my profile. If it does refer to at least 1 thing, is respectful, and the pic isn't inappropriate, I'll go look at the profile. Then it's a matter of "does he seem like my kind of person to a reasonable degree," "are there any of my dealbreakers apparent? (eg smoking)," and yes, "do I find his pictures at least not unattractive?"

 

If all looks great I'll respond even if the first message isn't a standout. If I'm a bit 'meh' on the profile, that's where the message itself plays more of a part-- if he's said something he thinks I specifically might find interesting or interesting to chat about, that'll sway me to write (extra points if it's a fleeting reference in my profile). If I feel 'meh' on the profile AND message, I probably won't. If the message AND profile stand out to me--extremely rare--I'm already intending to ask to meet up within a couple messages, haha.

 

Just thought I'd provide that perspective into my own thought process, since from the examples you've provided I'd probably be roughly the 'type' you might consider.... every individual of course is different, but perspectives never hurt!

 

Beyond that, I agree with pretty well everything normal person has to say. Great advice there, for men and women alike!

[bluestealth]

All else being equal in my profile, I've had pretty good luck and a high response rate (about 40%) from my first messages. It might be even higher depending on how many of those were fake profiles. I follow the same format but customize it for each woman I message. I start out with a greeting using their name followed by a compliment, add a funny comment related to their profile or something we both can relate to, ask a question, and sign my first name at the end. Here are a couple of examples:

 

 

Hey there Hannah, you have a pretty smile and a nice profile I'm jealous you got to experience that ride for 4 year olds haha. How's life and college treating you?

 

~ J

 

 

Hey there Chelsea, you have a pretty smile and an interesting profile I'm glad you like the outdoors since I live in the country and have Amish neighbors haha. It's pretty rare to find another serious Christian on here! So how's life treating you?

 

~ J

 

 

I used to struggle even getting any responses but now it's really improved and this message format seems to have helped a lot. Keeping the conversation going and getting a date is a whole other battle. I've had 4 women in the last two weeks agree to go out but flake on me!

[Hyperfocal]

Thanks Kodak.

Bluestealth... you're getting 40% response with that process, Wow. If you don't mind, what is your age bracket?

 

How does a man in his 30's come across speaking of a "pretty smile." what do you think of "Your smile looks genuine," reasonable?

 

Having a question is good sense, is the "how's life treating you" working better than the specific questions?

 

I think I'll certainly incorporate some of your pattern in this, thanks!

[bluestealth]

Thanks Kodak.

Bluestealth... you're getting 40% response with that process, Wow. If you don't mind, what is your age bracket?

 

How does a man in his 30's come across speaking of a "pretty smile." what do you think of "Your smile looks genuine," reasonable?

 

Having a question is good sense, is the "how's life treating you" working better than the specific questions?

 

I think I'll certainly incorporate some of your pattern in this, thanks!

 

 

I'm 31 and over 90% of my messages are to girls in their early to mid 20's. I think a man of any age saying that to a woman would do well since it's not an overly sexual compliment like calling her sexy or hot. Saying her smile is genuine may work too but I personally like to say her smile or eyes are pretty. Specific questions are great too especially if you can relate them back to you also. If a woman's profile doesn't have much detail I'll go with "How's life treating you?" or some variation of it. Sometimes I'll ask "How's the online dating world treating you?" since we can both relate to that. Good luck and let us know what kind of results you get from the changes.