Honest perspective requested

[Rea]

I have been seeing my MM for 15 months. We met at a time when I had just come out of a relationship. I was 44 years old and he was 60 years old - yes 60!

My teenage daughter was in hospital for six months. He was a Consultant at the hospital. He did a double take when he first saw me. He had no idea who I was, nor I he. We built up a friendship. Nothing happened between us until after my daughter was discharged. I needed some information, so contacted the hospital. He called me personally and invited me to meet.

He has been married for 32 years, has three adult children and a beautiful, successful wife. He had no issues with his wife and told me his marriage was a happy one. He was completely honest with me about his marriage before anything happened between us. He said that from the moment he laid eyes on me, he wanted me. I felt very confused. I knew I felt the same, but I was dealing with so much emotionally, I could not cope with the thought of an affair. He asked if we could remain friends. We got on so very well, still do. For three months we met for lunch fortnightly, then weekly. It would always end with a passionate kiss. We would text and talk every day. He has given me so much support emotionally, both with my daughter and my separation. He had offered to help me financially, but I refused, telling him I need to stand on my own two feet, even though I find this a struggle. Finally the relationship turned physical. We love and adore each other. We enjoy so many of the same things in life.

I would marry this man with no hesitation. He struggles to leave his wife and to walk away from the life he has known for so long. I understand that. Last Summer he sent me a very long, rather raunchy text declaring his love for me as he had done so very often, but he mistakenly sent it to his youngest daughter (27). She immediately responded. As he had used my name there was no way of pretending it was for her mother! He told his daughter it was over between us, that he had finished it and begged her not to tell his wife. I was heartbroken. He said we could remain friends, but seeing the pain in his daughters eyes, he could not leave his family. He was truly distressed at the thought of losing me as his lover and best friend.

We remained in contact as friends, but the next time we met we professed our love for each other again and so the cycle continued.

His wife knows there is something going on. She has on many occasions tried to discuss this with him. She says things like "I hope she makes you happy." He dismisses my existence to her.

About two months ago his wife called their three children home, unbeknown to my MM. She sat everyone down and quietly catalogued all the reasons she feels their father is cheating on her. He said everyone was upset and devastated. He denied my existence, but said it pained him terribly to do so as he loves me so much. His youngest daughter told him she would not tell her mother, because she knows her mother is struggling with issues to do with their son. He said if it was a straight choice between being with me or his wife, he'd choose to be with me. But his kids have made it clear they will be there for their mother, not him. He leaves her, he leaves the family. Ten days before Christmas he again sent a text to his daughter that was meant for me. She was furious as he had promised her it was over. She has told him she will not talk to her mother about it, but he needs to decide who he wants to be with, still insisting he will lose his relationship with his children if he leaves their mother.

His contact with me has diminished greatly when he is at home since then. He used to text me/call me all the time when he was home. Now he calls me daily on his way home from work. He changed jobs in November which means we see each other every two - three weeks now.

I have found myself increasingly ignoring his texts/telephone calls.

My period is late this month, which is very unusual. I told him this yesterday and he was actually excited that I could be pregnant. We never use protection as he had chemo treatment for cancer many years ago. He told me that it left him infertile. He has always bitterly regretted this as he has always said he would love for us to have a baby, despite our age. I think he feels if we could, he would have a justifiable reason to renege on his marriage/family as he would have a duty of responsibility to me and our child.

I took a test this morning which was negative. I have not yet told him of this as he has not yet contacted me since yesterday morning proclaiming his initial excitement at a pregnancy.

I honestly do believe that he loves and adores me but he cannot bare the thought of walking away from a life he has known so long. It is the fear of the fallout.

Should I walk away now? Should I give an ultimatum? I feel like I am going insane. My work is suffering. I cannot confide in anyone about this. No one would believe that I have gotten myself in such a situation. I have never done anything like this before. I was always the person that would think an affair a horribly despicable thing to enter into.

Oh, until you wear another's shoes and walk their path....

[Cymbeline]

I'm not convinced he sent the text to his daughter completely by mistake. It isn't uncommon for unfaithful partners to do this in order to have someone - in this case daughter - pull them from their behaviour.

 

I would also be very wary of believing what he says to you about making a life together. He probably means it, or thinks he does, in the moment but not when he returns home.

David Hare's play, 'Skylight' deals with this very phenomenon. An article in 'The Times ' recently included an interview with several men - one a hospital consultant who said that he wrote a passionate text to his girlfriend then deliberately sent it to his wife, so that she would know and he would be forced to sort himself out and admit the truth to her. My own husband 'left' emails between him and his AP open when he found himself breaking NC and felt out of his own emotional control.

 

He is an elderly man, engaging in a life affirming relationship with a younger woman. The idea of a baby makes him recall his younger self and is a romantic idea. The reality of fatherhood at 60+ with horrified older children is rather different. The things he has told you are reminiscent of the things my mid life crisis husband said to his young AP. They didn't result in any real action towards her. Feelings and actions need to be aligned before you place any credence in them.

 

I hope you look after yourself first.

[cocorico]

He is an elderly man

 

At 60? She's 44, FFS, not 12 - it's a mere 16 year gap, hardly cradle snatching on his part (or grave snatching on hers).

 

Rea, take a look at the facts, not the rhetoric. His kids are all grown and out the house. If he wanted, he could leave very easily. The fact that his daughter was willing to keep his secret *twice* shows that there is enough R there that any threats of cutting him dead would be hollow. He's a consultant, which suggests he's comfortable financially and could afford a split. So, he can. He's choosing not to.

 

The "possible pregnancy" response also makes me wary. Would you want to be with someone who was only there out of a sense of duty? If he's not willing to leave for you, but would do so to provide for your baby, that's telling you all you need to know.

 

He's helped you through a rough time; remember him fondly, but it's time to move on.

[Ms. Faust]

He sent a text to his daughter twice? Is he senile? Also, I get the strong impression he has done this before. Too smooth, knows the ropes too well. Are you in the States? It seems like financially secured men who have been in 30+ year marriages are the worst when it comes to leaving. Their love has limits, and it usually has to do with $$$$. As Cocorico pointed out, he could leave but he chooses not to. He says it hurts to deny you, but it must not hurt that bad as he has not hesitated to do it twice.

[Maddieandtae]

Rea this treatment this mans gives to ALL the woman in his life is just so disgusting. Do you really see redeeming qualities in a man who gaslights his own daughter to lie for him?! I believe that the grown kids will side with their Mother and that their family will be in tatters for along time coming. Believe this mans actions over his words. He's given his true answer loud and clear on what your outcome is to be once this is over. Take care of YOU.

[sandylee1]

Whilst this all sounds very romantic ... it's time to get a grip on reality. His kids. ..yes I know they are grown up would HATE you for splitting their parents up. They'll see you as being after a rich man.. whether it's true or not and he would be kept at a distance. He's old enough to be a grandfather..you better start using protection because you having a child by him.. will make his family hate you even more.

 

Set a better example for your daughter... she doesn't need people calling you all kind of nasty names. He told you he was happily married in the beginning..but inappropriate boundaries led to more.

 

Do not make ANOTHER woman's husband your best friend. Just don't. You both have no respect for his marriage and have his daughter keeping this horrible secret.

 

How would you like it if your daughter was put in that situation? Start developing some empathy towards the family and put your desires aside.

[Samhain]

First of all this guy has put his daughter in an extremely uncomfortable, not to mention damaging, position not once, but twice. She is now inadvertently lying to her mother, knowing that she has worries and concerns about her husbands fidelity, if it ever comes out, that could be a damaged beyond repair relationship ruined. But he doesn't care.

 

So consider for a moment, your MM would rather put his own flesh and blood in a horrible situation that will possibly cause serious damage one day than be honest to his wife. Doesn't sound like the kind of man who will one day pluck up the courage to leave, and put you first above himself, does it?

 

Because make no mistake, himself is the only person that truly matters to him.

 

I also agree with the others who have said he's done this before. The smoothness of it all was probably a common script for him.

 

These people never leave their marriages, and he doesn't love you. I'm sure he adores the attention and excitement of the sex after 32 years of marriage, but he probably quite likes his married life and is happy and content, that's why he has mistresses to fill in the other needs he has.

 

You are being naive to think anything good will ever come of this. He is 60 with a good job, a wife and a family, he is set for the rest of his days. You are 44 hanging on waiting for something that will never materialize while swallowing the BS a seasoned multi-affair chasing married seducer feeds you. That sounds like a miserable existence.

[Rea]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I think I knew deep down what would be said, but sometimes you just need to hear it from somebody else to believe it.

 

I am starting to see this man for what he is. I still want to believe he loves me the way he claims to. He has shared so much really personal family stuff with me, I find it difficult to believe someone would do that if they were not completely in love and trusting of another. Maybe it's my naivety, I know I am prone to that. I wonder if I didn't just open myself up to total manipulation at an extremely vulnerable time in my life.

 

I do feel terrible guilt for my part in all of this, I really do.

 

For the person that asked, I am in the UK.

 

He is a Consultant Psychiatrist, and has probably appeared to be the most loving, adorable man I have ever met. This morning I'd have said he IS the most loving and adorable man I've ever met, but reading all of your responses has made me look at this in black and white and the mist has began to clear. I know you are all right, he could leave if he wanted, but chooses not to.

 

I am actually starting to feel mad at him now. I know I have to cut contact with him and start taking care of myself.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Rea

[Ms. Faust]

Have you two discussed the prospect of him leaving his wife?

[Rea]

Have you two discussed the prospect of him leaving his wife?

 

We did last summer. We had made a plan (of sorts). I had told him I could not continue having a relationship with him as the guilt was tearing me apart and I do not like feeling like a dirty little secret. I told him that if he loves me and wants to be with me, he needs to choose what is right for him. He said he would leave. I told him I want to be with him properly once my daughter starts uni this Autumn. Not long after that he sent the first text to his daughter that was meant for me. I get that was his first sign he was a runner, I should have opened my eyes wide. His daughter was going to tell the rest of the family, that is when he told her it was over between us. He did try to stop seeing me. I did not contact him, he contacted me. In truth, that is usually how it is between us. I rarely initiate contact. But if he contacts me and does not get a response, he tries and tries. There have been times when I have wondered whether he is actually slightly obsessed with me, by the way he acts, then at other times I think 'How can he be?' He could have me if he wanted me, but says he cannot renege on his family Committment.

 

I have decided to write down how I feel in a text to him. I will tell him that he should not contact me again unless he has left his wife and his marriage is well and truly over.

 

He has had other extra marital relationships, but nothing as long term or serious as ours, and not for many years. They have all been with work colleagues and when he was much younger. His wife knew of his last and they separated for a while, but he went back. He talks very openly to me about this.

 

He used to profess to his marriage being happy, but over the past 15 months he and I have had many deep conversations about this, where I have pointed out why I believe this isn't true. He used to strongly deny my observations, but would later reflect on them to be true, calling me his psychologist.

His marriage had issues before I was on the scene, this he can now admit. Not that I am excusing my part in this affair.

[S2B]

IF he intended to leave/end the marriage he would have done so when he sent that revealing text.

 

But he didn't...he covered it up and did everything needed to stay married.

 

 

He will keep you as the OW as long as you allow it.

 

 

I hope you end it/ want more for your life than to be his secret for decades.

[Samhain]

He has had other extra marital relationships, but nothing as long term or serious as ours, and not for many years. They have all been with work colleagues and when he was much younger. His wife knew of his last and they separated for a while, but he went back. He talks very openly to me about this.

 

 

I wouldn't pin much truth to this. I guarantee all of his extra marital affairs have lasted for as long as these other women allowed them to, and I also guarantee he has fed them all the same script that he does you.

 

He's not going to tell you he's had several long term,meaningful affairs and that he told these women he loved and adored them because then you'd get a little wiser a little faster.

 

He's manipulated his own daughter into lying for him. He is not honest, and he certainly isn't being honest with you. He knows just what to say to you because he knows what you want to hear. Some of his other affairs probably were short term, because it takes a certain personality type to put up with this kind of behaviour, and I doubt many of these women stuck around to take his crap when it became obvious he was all talk and would never leave his marriage.

 

On the very very very doubtful prospect that he will leave his wife and come back to you and be exclusive, do you really want to be in his current wifes position? Being lied to, cheated on, having the people closest to you lying to you, all for a cowardly manipulator? If so, then by all means send that text message to him. Or salvage some integrity, be strong, and walk away. Stay away. And find somebody who treats you with respect.

[Ms. Faust]

Yeah, I wouldn't put much faith in you being the longest term and him having a dry spell. Text book serial cheater.

[stillafool]

His story and excuses not to leave sound exactly like every other MMs. He's full of it. He doesn't want to leave his beautiful, successful wife. He does want the affair and fantasy to continue with you though. What do you want?

[Doublegold]

About two months ago his wife called their three children home, unbeknown to my MM. She sat everyone down and quietly catalogued all the reasons she feels their father is cheating on her. He said everyone was upset and devastated.

 

 

Did she do this to prepare them for her leaving their Father? I know of that happening to a man who was in a 16 year affair--one day the BS had enough (once her peers knew and she was embrassed by that) and did just that. If not, what was the end game for her? Problems with a son, let's throw Dad into the mix for a Happy Holiday? Sounds like an extremely dysfunctional Marriage/Family dynamic that you are best to step away from.

 

Take care of yourself. Be true to yourself. Don't allow yourself to be beat up on here--these threads can fill up with tons of transference.

[S2B]

He does nothing to end his marriage and everything to secure he has some semblance of an OW.

 

He's a serial cheater and his wife isn't ever ending the marriage. He's not ending it!

 

He's just being sure you will still be his OW.

 

 

Stop being that for him!

[NewLeaf512]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I think I knew deep down what would be said, but sometimes you just need to hear it from somebody else to believe it.

 

I am starting to see this man for what he is. I still want to believe he loves me the way he claims to. He has shared so much really personal family stuff with me, I find it difficult to believe someone would do that if they were not completely in love and trusting of another. Maybe it's my naivety, I know I am prone to that. I wonder if I didn't just open myself up to total manipulation at an extremely vulnerable time in my life.

 

I do feel terrible guilt for my part in all of this, I really do.

 

For the person that asked, I am in the UK.

 

He is a Consultant Psychiatrist, and has probably appeared to be the most loving, adorable man I have ever met. This morning I'd have said he IS the most loving and adorable man I've ever met, but reading all of your responses has made me look at this in black and white and the mist has began to clear. I know you are all right, he could leave if he wanted, but chooses not to.

 

I am actually starting to feel mad at him now. I know I have to cut contact with him and start taking care of myself.

 

Bloody hell darling. He is risking his practice and he will NEVER be with you and forfeit that. Please tell me you weren't his patient.

 

I'm in the UK too and I've prosecuted people for this when I was in CPS.

[whichwayisup]

The guy is a wimp, he has NO backbone. Instead of owing what he's done, he's lied, denied and made his whole family, look like fools! He's had TWO chances to come clean and just admit the truth. This man is selfish and FULL of flaws. Sadly I doubt this is his first affair, he's probably done this in the past and gotten away with it.

 

Anyway I hope you walk away. This man has way too much baggage, unless you want to deal with his ex and his children in a nasty way for the rest of your life, I'd bail out now. 32 years of marriage, that's a long history with friends, family, in laws to give up and walk away from. If he truly wanted you, loved you enough he'd do it and admit he's in love with someone else, but he hasn't and he won't.

[sandylee1]

FROM THIS:

 

"He has been married for 32 years, has three adult children and a

beautiful, successful wife. He had no issues with his wife and told me his marriage was a happy one"

 

TO THIS:

 

"He used to profess to his marriage being happy, but over the past 15 months he and I have had many deep conversations about this, where I have pointed out why I believe this isn't true. He used to strongly deny my observations, but would later reflect on them to be true, calling me his psychologist.

His marriage had issues before I was on the scene, this he can now admit.

 

**************************

Suddenly the marriage isn't a happy one anymore? He certainly thought it was........but it appears you've convinced him otherwise.

 

Ask yourself if he's really going to leave his beautiful successful wife for you...... and loose his standing in society and be made to look life a fool having a post mid life crisis.

 

Instead of saying he initiates contact.. Block him from making that contact.

 

You may think there are no repercussions because you're single... if his wife or kids get hold of your daughter and tell her that you are having an affair with her dad.....that may just cause her mental illness to start over..... I bet you never thought of that did you? Actions have consequences.... I'm saying this to point them out and not be mean.

 

I speak as someone who at the age of about 10 had to hide infidelity from my mother ... it's horrible.....it felt like I was betraying my mom. I may have forgiven my dad for that.. but I will never forget...... and he never even knew that I knew about it.

 

With the help of my sister and an older relative...... We unleashed hell on the OW ...... and she had no idea where it came from or why.

 

Be very very careful.....

 

His daughter could decide that YOU'VE interjected in her parent's marriage and caused her this tremendous stress .... so why should she suffer alone and not have your daughter suffer like she is.

[I4givehim]

When I confronted my STBXH with the info the OW gave me he said, "I only told her what she wanted to hear. If anyone was lied to it was her." I believe your MM is doing the same to you. You say you were the kind of person that would NEVER get into a relationship with a MM. Go back to being that person. It is the right person to be. If your daughter came home and told you this same exact story what would you tell her.

My STBXH A hurt the children so badly. They have no respect for him. They see him at family functions and they turn their back on him. Is this how you want your daughter to treat you. Love and respect yourself and you will see good things come your way.

[Popsicle]

You both are in textbook affair fog.

 

And yes walk away now.

[Rea]

Bloody hell darling. He is risking his practice and he will NEVER be with you and forfeit that. Please tell me you weren't his patient.

 

I'm in the UK too and I've prosecuted people for this when I was in CPS.

 

No, I have never been his patient.

[Rea]

FROM THIS:

 

"He has been married for 32 years, has three adult children and a

beautiful, successful wife. He had no issues with his wife and told me his marriage was a happy one"

 

TO THIS:

 

"He used to profess to his marriage being happy, but over the past 15 months he and I have had many deep conversations about this, where I have pointed out why I believe this isn't true. He used to strongly deny my observations, but would later reflect on them to be true, calling me his psychologist.

His marriage had issues before I was on the scene, this he can now admit.

 

**************************

Suddenly the marriage isn't a happy one anymore? He certainly thought it was........but it appears you've convinced him otherwise.

 

You may think there are no repercussions because you're single... if his wife or kids get hold of your daughter and tell her that you are having an affair with her dad.....that may just cause her mental illness to start over..... I bet you never thought of that did you? Actions have consequences.... I'm saying this to point them out and not be mean.

 

His marriage had issues that he was not ready to confront. I did not convince him of this, I didn't need to. We talked, discussed and shared opinions. I could see things from a different perspective.

 

Please do not make presumptions about my daughters past health issues. I never said he was her doctor.

[Rea]

About two months ago his wife called their three children home, unbeknown to my MM. She sat everyone down and quietly catalogued all the reasons she feels their father is cheating on her. He said everyone was upset and devastated.

 

 

Did she do this to prepare them for her leaving their Father? I know of that happening to a man who was in a 16 year affair--one day the BS had enough (once her peers knew and she was embrassed by that) and did just that. If not, what was the end game for her? Problems with a son, let's throw Dad into the mix for a Happy Holiday? Sounds like an extremely dysfunctional Marriage/Family dynamic that you are best to step away from.

 

Take care of yourself. Be true to yourself. Don't allow yourself to be beat up on here--these threads can fill up with tons of transference.

 

I don't know why she did this. I think she was concerned at the strength of his feelings for me and the impact this is having on their relationship. By his account she has never been an attentive wife. But she has tried to improve since feeling that something was going on. She used to go out all the time and go away for weekends, now she rarely does. I think she thought she could use her adult children as leverage for him to stop seeing me. That she could humiliate him into giving me up. It didn't work.

 

Thank you for your response. Posting on this board today is my first step in trying to move forward from this positively, without him in tow.

[Rea]

IF he intended to leave/end the marriage he would have done so when he sent that revealing text.

 

But he didn't...he covered it up and did everything needed to stay married.

 

 

He will keep you as the OW as long as you allow it.

 

 

I hope you end it/ want more for your life than to be his secret for decades.

 

I know you are right in what you say. Thank you.