Honest perspective requested

[Quiet Storm]

Like many OW, you know MM loves you. The moments you've spent together, the conversations, the intimacy shared, the look in his eye, the passion in his touch. You've felt it and truly believe that it is real.

 

Like many women, you feel compelled to follow your heart, and you are hoping that he does, too. The problem is that many men just don't feel that presence of love must lead to action.

 

I believe this difference in how the OW & MM view love and what love means is what keeps affairs lasting for years on end. The OW feels "we are in love, so we should be together" and a MM feels "I love OW, but I'm not leaving my marriage or family".

 

What often happens is that OW, who has complete faith that MM loves her, ends up waiting for years, because she believes love conquers all. And if she just waits patiently, he will see that he must follow his heart and make it happen.

 

The problem is that most MM are not compelled to make changes, even when completely in love with the OW. They often don't place romantic love above commitment or an intact family. They enjoy romantic love- it's exciting, fun and intimate- but in their minds, it isn't "big" enough for them to change their whole lives over. It's difficult for women to accept this because we often feel that love is so important to our happiness.

 

So when this dynamic plays out, you often get a never ending affair. You have an OW whose goal is "being together", who is conflicted, sad & confused but still waiting. And you have a MM who is perfectly content with his marriage + OW, and whose goal is to extend the affair as long as possible.

 

As with many OW's early posts on this forum, Rea, you are focused on the love and feel that "he loves me" will be a huge factor in the outcome of this affair, but it's not. It's not about the love.

 

Let's assume that MM genuinely does love you. He has lied to his daughter in an attempt to protect his marriage/ family- twice. He has told you that he cannot renege on his family commitment. My advise to you is- instead of focusing on the love that you know is real & true, focus on what this man is telling you. "Yes, Rea, I do love you BUT my commitment to my family is more important."

 

Focusing on the love is what the MM wants the OW to do. But focusing on the love is what keeps OW in these dead end situations for years, often wasting the best time of their life in an affair. Focus on the facts and MMs actions, and understand that although MM loves you, he could be exploiting that love to serve his own interests- to keep you loving him, while he stays married & keeps his family intact.

[sandylee1]

His marriage had issues that he was not ready to confront. I did not convince him of this, I didn't need to. We talked, discussed and shared opinions. I could see things from a different perspective.

 

Please do not make presumptions about my daughters past health issues. I never said he was her doctor.

 

Apologies for making presumptions...... but it doesn't really change anything does it now?

 

His daughter and anyone she gets on side could still hurt you and your daughter.

 

The point is that he told you he was happily married and he certainly thought he was happily married ... you have analysed what he tells you to determine he isn't happy. From day 1 he said he was happy.. but lack of appropriate boundaries led you down this road.

 

It must be quite the ego boost for him to have a younger woman as his mistress. 60 is an OAP ... so yeah he must be in 7th heaven.

[whichwayisup]

Your MM has totally rewritten history about his wife and marriage. Along the way as the A got more serious he changed his views and more or less made his wife out to be the bad guy and the devil. His daughter has been put in an AWFUL position thanks to not once, but TWICE sending her a dirty text meant for you...I hope he at least apologized to her about that.

 

There's no way he's going to leave, though I do hope his wife finds out the truth finally so she can decide if she wants to stay and give him a chance to fix things or divorce and move on.

[Rea]

Like many OW, you know MM loves you. The moments you've spent together, the conversations, the intimacy shared, the look in his eye, the passion in his touch. You've felt it and truly believe that it is real.

 

Like many women, you feel compelled to follow your heart, and you are hoping that he does, too. The problem is that many men just don't feel that presence of love must lead to action.

 

I believe this difference in how the OW & MM view love and what love means is what keeps affairs lasting for years on end. The OW feels "we are in love, so we should be together" and a MM feels "I love OW, but I'm not leaving my marriage or family".

 

What often happens is that OW, who has complete faith that MM loves her, ends up waiting for years, because she believes love conquers all. And if she just waits patiently, he will see that he must follow his heart and make it happen.

 

The problem is that most MM are not compelled to make changes, even when completely in love with the OW. They often don't place romantic love above commitment or an intact family. They enjoy romantic love- it's exciting, fun and intimate- but in their minds, it isn't "big" enough for them to change their whole lives over. It's difficult for women to accept this because we often feel that love is so important to our happiness.

 

So when this dynamic plays out, you often get a never ending affair. You have an OW whose goal is "being together", who is conflicted, sad & confused but still waiting. And you have a MM who is perfectly content with his marriage + OW, and whose goal is to extend the affair as long as possible.

 

As with many OW's early posts on this forum, Rea, you are focused on the love and feel that "he loves me" will be a huge factor in the outcome of this affair, but it's not. It's not about the love.

 

Let's assume that MM genuinely does love you. He has lied to his daughter in an attempt to protect his marriage/ family- twice. He has told you that he cannot renege on his family commitment. My advise to you is- instead of focusing on the love that you know is real & true, focus on what this man is telling you. "Yes, Rea, I do love you BUT my commitment to my family is more important."

 

Focusing on the love is what the MM wants the OW to do. But focusing on the love is what keeps OW in these dead end situations for years, often wasting the best time of their life in an affair. Focus on the facts and MMs actions, and understand that although MM loves you, he could be exploiting that love to serve his own interests- to keep you loving him, while he stays married & keeps his family intact.

 

You have analysed our relationship perfectly!

[waterwoman]

I don't think this is a good man. He is happily married for years to a beautiful woman, has multiple affairs, allows a stranger to tell him about his marriage and then rewrites history to agree with her, accidentally texts his daughter TWICE and the manipulates her to lie to her mother.

 

Glad he's not my H, AP or father.

[stillafool]

I don't know why she did this. I think she was concerned at the strength of his feelings for me and the impact this is having on their relationship. By his account she has never been an attentive wife. But she has tried to improve since feeling that something was going on. She used to go out all the time and go away for weekends, now she rarely does. I think she thought she could use her adult children as leverage for him to stop seeing me. That she could humiliate him into giving me up. It didn't work.

 

Thank you for your response. Posting on this board today is my first step in trying to move forward from this positively, without him in tow.

 

How do you know all of this information about the wife? Please realize that if this information is coming from MM it is more than likely not accurate.

[ShatteredLady]

Think about what he's done to his daughter....REALLY think about it. Think about his profession. He KNOWS that he is causing terrible psychological damage to his own child!

 

Imagine being her sitting at the 'family meeting' with her Mum & siblings keeping quiet. He forced her, emotionally manipulated her, into causing terrible damage to one of the most important relationships (mother & daughter) she will EVER have in her life!

 

Think about her future relationships after knowing what her father (Number 1 male role model) has done to her!! Not just discovering that her Dad is an adulterer....using his psychological knowledge to manipulate his own child!!

[lemondrop21]

I understand how tempting it is for some of us to play the psychologist and analyze MM (or others') relationships. It's often so easy to pick out all of the flaws in others' relationships, just not our own! That said, the flaws in MM's marriage need to be his to discover, if they are there. Think about it - if he did end up leaving after you had convinced him of the existence of these flaws, when he had his moments of doubt (as almost anyone will, during a divorce/breakup), he will blame you in those moments for leading him down the wrong path, away from his wife. Your relationship would suffer due to the resentment.

 

That said, I don't think he's leaving. I also think the thing with his daughter is very concerning. My parents put me in the middle of all sorts of drama and still do sometimes (I'm 28) but I can't imagine having to lie to one parent about the other parents' affair... that would REALLY screw me up.

 

I'm sorry that this man has led you down this path and I wish you the best as you start the healing process.

[xxoo]

And you have a MM who is perfectly content with his marriage + OW, and whose goal is to extend the affair as long as possible.

 

 

This guy is so intent on extending the affair as long as possible that he manipulates his own daughter into lying to her mother. He really wants to extend this affair as long as possible. Not end it. Not divorce. Not be with his mistress exclusively. He wants to extend the affair as it is, no matter who it hurts: his wife, his kids, or his mistress.

[sandylee1]

Think about what he's done to his daughter....REALLY think about it. Think about his profession. He KNOWS that he is causing terrible psychological damage to his own child!

 

Imagine being her sitting at the 'family meeting' with her Mum & siblings keeping quiet. He forced her, emotionally manipulated her, into causing terrible damage to one of the most important relationships (mother & daughter) she will EVER have in her life!

 

Think about her future relationships after knowing what her father (Number 1 male role model) has done to her!! Not just discovering that her Dad is an adulterer....using his psychological knowledge to manipulate his own child!!

 

^^^^^^ Exactly.

 

Would you like your daughter put in this position.

 

What kind of decent man would do this to their own child? His actions lead people in his daughter's situation to seek therapy, because of the confusion and guilt she's feeling.

 

This is the second recent thread where a father has been deceitful to their child as a result of their knowledge of an affair...... this is one of the ways an affair makes you a terrible parent. You are part of everything he's doing.. you can't have an affair by yourself.. you are the partner in crime.

 

I'm sure his daughter has already lost respect for him. What a catch eh.

[Doublegold]

I'm sure his daughter has already lost respect for him. What a catch eh.

 

Obviously the wife thinks so "A house built on lies has a weak foundation".

Edited January 5, 2016 by Doublegold
Quote.

[Poppy47]

If this man is 60, how old is the daughter.

 

Seriously, if she is an adult, how could he force her to lie to her mother???

 

Maybe he holds her purse strings or there are other secrets in the closet.

 

Poppy.

[Cloudcuckoo]

Like many OW, you know MM loves you. The moments you've spent together, the conversations, the intimacy shared, the look in his eye, the passion in his touch. You've felt it and truly believe that it is real.

 

Like many women, you feel compelled to follow your heart, and you are hoping that he does, too. The problem is that many men just don't feel that presence of love must lead to action.

 

I believe this difference in how the OW & MM view love and what love means is what keeps affairs lasting for years on end. The OW feels "we are in love, so we should be together" and a MM feels "I love OW, but I'm not leaving my marriage or family".

 

What often happens is that OW, who has complete faith that MM loves her, ends up waiting for years, because she believes love conquers all. And if she just waits patiently, he will see that he must follow his heart and make it happen.

 

The problem is that most MM are not compelled to make changes, even when completely in love with the OW. They often don't place romantic love above commitment or an intact family. They enjoy romantic love- it's exciting, fun and intimate- but in their minds, it isn't "big" enough for them to change their whole lives over. It's difficult for women to accept this because we often feel that love is so important to our happiness.

 

So when this dynamic plays out, you often get a never ending affair. You have an OW whose goal is "being together", who is conflicted, sad & confused but still waiting. And you have a MM who is perfectly content with his marriage + OW, and whose goal is to extend the affair as long as possible.

 

As with many OW's early posts on this forum, Rea, you are focused on the love and feel that "he loves me" will be a huge factor in the outcome of this affair, but it's not. It's not about the love.

 

Let's assume that MM genuinely does love you. He has lied to his daughter in an attempt to protect his marriage/ family- twice. He has told you that he cannot renege on his family commitment. My advise to you is- instead of focusing on the love that you know is real & true, focus on what this man is telling you. "Yes, Rea, I do love you BUT my commitment to my family is more important."

 

Focusing on the love is what the MM wants the OW to do. But focusing on the love is what keeps OW in these dead end situations for years, often wasting the best time of their life in an affair. Focus on the facts and MMs actions, and understand that although MM loves you, he could be exploiting that love to serve his own interests- to keep you loving him, while he stays married & keeps his family intact.

 

Bravo Quiet Storm! What an awful lot of sense your enlightening post suggests.

 

Rea, the fact that you appear to be taking note of those who are attempting to help you here gives me hope that you will take stock of all the surrounding circumstances of your desire for this man, and will eventually come to a healthy conclusion that sees you regain your personal integrity, self respect, and use the valuable lessons from this experience so that the man who comes into your life (and he will, I assure you, if you open yourself to real, unselfish love) is just the kind of person you need.

 

You don't currently have a truly trusting, respectful and openly loving relationship at the moment, it's one sided in the majority don't you think? really, and secrets of any kind are not conducive to healthy relationships, but of course you're not silly, you know this.

 

I support, wholeheartedly, your continued recognition of this unhealthy and destructive situation, and sincerely wish you a more positively productive and healthy relationship in the future. Happy New Year to you and your daughter, and lots of luck!

 

Cuckoo X

[Cloudcuckoo]

Apologies for making presumptions...... but it doesn't really change anything does it now?

 

His daughter and anyone she gets on side could still hurt you and your daughter.

 

The point is that he told you he was happily married and he certainly thought he was happily married ... you have analysed what he tells you to determine he isn't happy. From day 1 he said he was happy.. but lack of appropriate boundaries led you down this road.

 

It must be quite the ego boost for him to have a younger woman as his mistress. 60 is an OAP ... so yeah he must be in 7th heaven.

 

..60 is not pensioner age, not in the Uk... I'm a bit age sensitive as I approach my 57th year! hahaha, so please be kind Sandy!

 

I agree, it's a tenuous situation and subject to volatility. Boundaries as you mention...always...good ones don't land one in trouble ..

[sandylee1]

..60 is not pensioner age, not in the Uk... I'm a bit age sensitive as I approach my 57th year! hahaha, so please be kind Sandy!

 

I agree, it's a tenuous situation and subject to volatility. Boundaries as you mention...always...good ones don't land one in trouble ..

 

Lol

I'm in the UK. ...and you get your freedom pass (free bus pass) from that age I believe. There's an upside to everything.

 

But hey old is the new young...☺

[Midwestmissy]

I loved and trusted my h unconditionally for 27 years. And for that love, he cheated. Loving someone doesn't make things safe or good. Rotten lesson for an ancient 45 yr old to learn.

[spice4life]

Rea said:

" He used to profess to his marriage being happy, but over the past 15 months he and I have had many deep conversations about this, where I have pointed out why I believe this isn't true. He used to strongly deny my observations, but would later reflect on them to be true, calling me his psychologist.

His marriage had issues before I was on the scene, this he can now admit. Not that I am excusing my part in this affair."

 

A reality check here. Of course his marriage has issues. He is a cheater. His poor wife and kids have been fighting an unfair battle. If he were a man with integrity he would be dealing with his marital problems head on instead of taking the cowards way out by cheating. HIS affairs are creating the problems not his wife and you are his partner in this crime against his family.

 

Your advice about his troubled marriage (based on his words aka lies because he is a self professed cheater) is a manipulation on your part. You want him for yourself and conscious or not you are planting poison seeds to achieve your goal. You are in a toxic relationship that is not based on reality. It is all based on fantasy. HIS fantasy of which you are his little escape that is filling his need for variety.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh and apologize if it comes off that way.

[Midwestmissy]

Spice4life, you nailed it. What bumps in the road we had before the affair suddenly became insurmountable once my h introduced a third party into the marriage. He couldn't believe that he could be in a hotel with a fawning harpie who "got him", leave, walk through the front door and not be given a hero's welcome. Um, yeah. The marriage went into the sh!**er because if the affair. The whole family was in distress because of him, but the mow would text and we would seem like monsters compared to her. He was conflict avoidant, she was used to getting what she wanted professionally via sex. To be fair, she had not gotten far professionally in 25 years of behaving like that, the qualified younger folks kept (and continue to) move on above her. I believe a wise person once said "don't stick your **** in crazy." And for women, "don't sh*! where you eat".

 

What he would do to only be dealing with the original marriage issues.

[xxoo]

If this man is 60, how old is the daughter.

 

Seriously, if she is an adult, how could he force her to lie to her mother???

 

Maybe he holds her purse strings or there are other secrets in the closet.

 

Poppy.

 

From the OP:

 

Last Summer he sent me a very long, rather raunchy text declaring his love for me as he had done so very often, but he mistakenly sent it to his youngest daughter (27)

 

His youngest daughter told him she would not tell her mother, because she knows her mother is struggling with issues to do with their son.

 

Basically, manipulating the daughter into keeping quiet. Telling would upset mom, who is already struggling.

[Popsicle]

Like many OW, you know MM loves you. The moments you've spent together, the conversations, the intimacy shared, the look in his eye, the passion in his touch. You've felt it and truly believe that it is real.

 

Like many women, you feel compelled to follow your heart, and you are hoping that he does, too. The problem is that many men just don't feel that presence of love must lead to action.

 

I believe this difference in how the OW & MM view love and what love means is what keeps affairs lasting for years on end. The OW feels "we are in love, so we should be together" and a MM feels "I love OW, but I'm not leaving my marriage or family".

 

What often happens is that OW, who has complete faith that MM loves her, ends up waiting for years, because she believes love conquers all. And if she just waits patiently, he will see that he must follow his heart and make it happen.

 

The problem is that most MM are not compelled to make changes, even when completely in love with the OW. They often don't place romantic love above commitment or an intact family. They enjoy romantic love- it's exciting, fun and intimate- but in their minds, it isn't "big" enough for them to change their whole lives over. It's difficult for women to accept this because we often feel that love is so important to our happiness.

 

So when this dynamic plays out, you often get a never ending affair. You have an OW whose goal is "being together", who is conflicted, sad & confused but still waiting. And you have a MM who is perfectly content with his marriage + OW, and whose goal is to extend the affair as long as possible.

 

As with many OW's early posts on this forum, Rea, you are focused on the love and feel that "he loves me" will be a huge factor in the outcome of this affair, but it's not. It's not about the love.

 

Let's assume that MM genuinely does love you. He has lied to his daughter in an attempt to protect his marriage/ family- twice. He has told you that he cannot renege on his family commitment. My advise to you is- instead of focusing on the love that you know is real & true, focus on what this man is telling you. "Yes, Rea, I do love you BUT my commitment to my family is more important."

 

Focusing on the love is what the MM wants the OW to do. But focusing on the love is what keeps OW in these dead end situations for years, often wasting the best time of their life in an affair. Focus on the facts and MMs actions, and understand that although MM loves you, he could be exploiting that love to serve his own interests- to keep you loving him, while he stays married & keeps his family intact.

 

Yes this is spot on. You have to Ned this madness now.

[Rea]

Bravo Quiet Storm! What an awful lot of sense your enlightening post suggests.

 

Rea, the fact that you appear to be taking note of those who are attempting to help you here gives me hope that you will take stock of all the surrounding circumstances of your desire for this man, and will eventually come to a healthy conclusion that sees you regain your personal integrity, self respect, and use the valuable lessons from this experience so that the man who comes into your life (and he will, I assure you, if you open yourself to real, unselfish love) is just the kind of person you need.

 

You don't currently have a truly trusting, respectful and openly loving relationship at the moment, it's one sided in the majority don't you think? really, and secrets of any kind are not conducive to healthy relationships, but of course you're not silly, you know this.

 

I support, wholeheartedly, your continued recognition of this unhealthy and destructive situation, and sincerely wish you a more positively productive and healthy relationship in the future. Happy New Year to you and your daughter, and lots of luck!

 

Cuckoo X

 

Thank you for your heartening, positive response. It is much appreciated, especially today as I am feeling pretty low and struggling to hold it together.

Thank you Cuckoo for the Happy New Wishes. I wish you the same.

 

Thank you also to those of you who have shown a more positive attitude towards age difference. I cannot ever see *this* MM (note the use of *this* as opposed to *my* MM) (small steps) applying for a bus pass! lol

 

Thanks to all those that have responded constructively to this thread, you'll know in your hearts who you are. The time you have taken to give well thought out, constructive responses (instead of giving me negative digs, and then returning to dissect other responses and give more of negative vibes) has aided me in seeing this relationship more clearly and in a way that allows me to be more constructive in how I push forward in this. x

Edited January 5, 2016 by Rea
Spelling

[Ms. Faust]

I actually thought that sending a text asking him to choose was a good idea. It's do or die at this point. He has a clear way out. If he feels you are his soul mate then he will move heaven and earth to be with you... if he makes more excuses, then you know where you stand.

 

But if he decides to be with you, keep this in mind: It sounds cliche, but it is true, he has no idea how NOT to cheat in a relationship. He has been married 32 years, cheated in the beginning and more then likely cheated much more recently than what he told you. As someone else noted, it's not like he's going to divulge to you "why, yes, just a couple of years ago I was madly in love with this one woman, but it didn't work out, and hey, now I have you!"... He has already proven himself to be a liar, so you cannot take anything he says at face value, no matter how sincere he appears.

 

At least if you get him you will know what's up when he's cheating. He sounds absolutely terrible at covering his tracks, and don't think for a minute that is not on purpose. And accidentally sending not one, but TWO raunchy texts to his daughter? Come on... He wants to almost get caught for whatever reason; but it's obviously not to be with you, since he denied you existed twice.

[eye of the storm]

As to sending the daughter a raunchy text, did he? Or is it just another way of keeping the OP unsettled.

 

Also, I cannot imagine a 27 year old daughter with proof that her dad is cheating not tell her mom, when the mom is calling her children around her for support about "alleged" cheating. It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Esp since it happened, supposedly, twice.

 

The MM has said he would chose the AP over his BS, but he has been given several opportunities (the 2 texts, the intervention, every night over the dinner table) to tell his W that he wants to move on. But where is he? There, with her.

 

Also, I suggest you go and get a pregnancy test like yesterday. You have some decisions to make.

[sandylee1]

 

Your advice about his troubled marriage (based on his words aka lies because he is a self professed cheater) is a manipulation on your part. You want him for yourself and conscious or not you are planting poison seeds to achieve your goal.

 

^^^^^^^^^Well said.

 

This is exactly what I meant about Rea psychoanalysing their marriage. All done to try and win the prize.

[Ruffian1]

You have gotten a lot of good advice here. One more thing to think about:

 

When you you are 65, retirement age, he will be 81. If he is still around, men generally don't live as long as women either.

 

You love him enough to be his nurse while you are still fairly active at that age?

 

Think about it.