Done...

[LimeBlue]

well, our next conversation will be about this. i want him to tell me what is HIS decision about all this, not to wait for his wife to take the decision. i m not gonna wait around until she decides what she wants to do.

i will tellhim if he wants to stay married, to do that, but to tell me and to leave me alone!! i need closure for all of this, so i need him to tell me, with words, that he wants to stay home and that s all.

 

Good luck with trying to get him to tell you the truth. I've been asking my MM for the truth yet he continues to flip flap about like a wet rag all whilst avoiding telling me to my face. If he would just tell me that he has no intention to leave then I could find closure sooner. But it looks like I will never know the truth. I hope you will have better luck with your MM.

[dreamingoftigers]

i have suffered a lot taking the decision to abort my baby. i ve been in hell for the last 11 months. i regret that decision, of course i do, i know it was the best for the situation but it still hurts like hell.

i m not dealing well with regrets and i didn t want to take any decision regardin MM.

he was never bad with me, as a bad person, he always talked nice to me, we communicate, he would spend nights talking to me when i was sad, cook and take care of me.. he is not a bad human being. i know he is an a.ss in some aspects, and a liar, conflict avoidant and all of that. i just wanted to see how this story ends and if something can come out of this, as he was saying he will get a D.

if he had told me"look, woman, i m never going to leave my wife", i would have walked away long time ago...

 

This may sound cold to you:

 

I get that both of you have a relationship built on a series of experiences. I don't invalidate that.

 

However, it would be nice if you would reread my post and answer some of the questions.

 

Because it seems you may be avoiding the definitive reality yourself and clouding it emotionally.

 

I didn't mention your pregnancy this post because I really don't want to rub any salt in about that. There's enough else to this dynamic.

 

It isn't about him being "mean/nice/great/awful" person.

 

It's honestly about basic mechanics.

 

I am not shouting at you from a mountaintop. I am 33, not that much older than you.

 

At 26 I had my first child on the way and had been married 3-4 years. Looking back at that not-so-distant last and seeing a similar emotional constitution between the two of us (including wanting to protect the ADULT men we are involved with) I see how toxic this situation is for you and how you could easily waste YEARS on it being loyal to someone who isn't loyal to you. It's super- painful and the pain won't stop until you find somewhere far more positive to channel that energy.

 

For a long time my troubled marriage became almost my identity, it somewhat absolved me from having to go and nurture my own identity. Maybe not quite the extreme. But I was definitely over-concerned for my husband who didn't seem concerned with too much aside from his own dick.

 

I wasn't going to "talk him out of it" and the best reasoned arguments andshows of support did nothing for years.

 

What changed? I closed the door. For quite awhile and set my boundaries in stone. He responded and ended up going the extra mile

 

I learned even through the book "The Little Prince" and then other books about love and marriage that you don't love people because they are invested in you. You love people because you are invested in THEM.

 

He's not fully invested in anyone. He sits back and has two women investing in him. You are far over invested in him and there's a severe imbalance there.

 

Could you please have a look at the Qs.

[dreamingoftigers]

Good luck with trying to get him to tell you the truth. I've been asking my MM for the truth yet he continues to flip flap about like a wet rag all whilst avoiding telling me to my face. If he would just tell me that he has no intention to leave then I could find closure sooner. But it looks like I will never know the truth. I hope you will have better luck with your MM.

 

He says it without words so that you ladies will keep coming back to the table to see if you can get a payout.

 

If he were to say "the table doesn't give payouts, but you can stick around and lose your chips over time" then you wouldn't go back to the table.

 

It's a random-reward system for both him and you.

With any random-reward system there are intense highs and lows.

 

Then slowly, more lows than highs.

 

Then pretty much just lows and shame.

 

Don't invest anymore at the table.

[Dela]

This may sound cold to you:

 

I get that both of you have a relationship built on a series of experiences. I don't invalidate that.

 

However, it would be nice if you would reread my post and answer some of the questions.

 

Because it seems you may be avoiding the definitive reality yourself and clouding it emotionally.

 

I didn't mention your pregnancy this post because I really don't want to rub any salt in about that. There's enough else to this dynamic.

 

It isn't about him being "mean/nice/great/awful" person.

 

It's honestly about basic mechanics.

 

I am not shouting at you from a mountaintop. I am 33, not that much older than you.

 

At 26 I had my first child on the way and had been married 3-4 years. Looking back at that not-so-distant last and seeing a similar emotional constitution between the two of us (including wanting to protect the ADULT men we are involved with) I see how toxic this situation is for you and how you could easily waste YEARS on it being loyal to someone who isn't loyal to you. It's super- painful and the pain won't stop until you find somewhere far more positive to channel that energy.

 

For a long time my troubled marriage became almost my identity, it somewhat absolved me from having to go and nurture my own identity. Maybe not quite the extreme. But I was definitely over-concerned for my husband who didn't seem concerned with too much aside from his own dick.

 

I wasn't going to "talk him out of it" and the best reasoned arguments andshows of support did nothing for years.

 

What changed? I closed the door. For quite awhile and set my boundaries in stone. He responded and ended up going the extra mile

 

I learned even through the book "The Little Prince" and then other books about love and marriage that you don't love people because they are invested in you. You love people because you are invested in THEM.

 

He's not fully invested in anyone. He sits back and has two women investing in him. You are far over invested in him and there's a severe imbalance there.

 

Could you please have a look at the Qs.

 

 

Why are you so hooked on this guy?

 

What's your FOO like?

 

What's your bottom line with this guy? You have already said you aren't happy with your current station in his life. But that's the relationship you have.

 

So what's the "uncrossable" line?

 

 

 

these were your questions. i think i answered in my post.

 

i will give u an example. for me communication is very important. i have that with MM. if he is conflict avoidant, he wasn t with me. we communicate about everything and anything.

 

another thing, respect. i don t know how much it applies in this situation, but exclusivly in our affair/relationship, i had that.

 

i m not happy with the situation, yes. bottom line is i was waiting for a chance to a normal relationship.

 

another thing, more psychological probably, there is a strong bond between us because of the pregnancy story...

 

the uncrossable line would be bad behavior, abuse and being dishonest in "our relationship". i didn t have that, he didnt tell me from the very first day that he s getting a D, after few months he said he s thinking about taking a decision and few months ago he said he did and he s getting a D. now he says that because the wife found out it makes that harder...

 

did i answer your questions?

[NewLeaf512]

This may sound cold to you:

 

I get that both of you have a relationship built on a series of experiences. I don't invalidate that.

 

However, it would be nice if you would reread my post and answer some of the questions.

 

Because it seems you may be avoiding the definitive reality yourself and clouding it emotionally.

 

I didn't mention your pregnancy this post because I really don't want to rub any salt in about that. There's enough else to this dynamic.

 

It isn't about him being "mean/nice/great/awful" person.

 

It's honestly about basic mechanics.

 

I am not shouting at you from a mountaintop. I am 33, not that much older than you.

 

At 26 I had my first child on the way and had been married 3-4 years. Looking back at that not-so-distant last and seeing a similar emotional constitution between the two of us (including wanting to protect the ADULT men we are involved with) I see how toxic this situation is for you and how you could easily waste YEARS on it being loyal to someone who isn't loyal to you. It's super- painful and the pain won't stop until you find somewhere far more positive to channel that energy.

 

For a long time my troubled marriage became almost my identity, it somewhat absolved me from having to go and nurture my own identity. Maybe not quite the extreme. But I was definitely over-concerned for my husband who didn't seem concerned with too much aside from his own dick.

 

I wasn't going to "talk him out of it" and the best reasoned arguments andshows of support did nothing for years.

 

What changed? I closed the door. For quite awhile and set my boundaries in stone. He responded and ended up going the extra mile

 

I learned even through the book "The Little Prince" and then other books about love and marriage that you don't love people because they are invested in you. You love people because you are invested in THEM.

 

He's not fully invested in anyone. He sits back and has two women investing in him. You are far over invested in him and there's a severe imbalance there.

 

Could you please have a look at the Qs.

 

Hi DOT

 

What an amazingly self aware and thoughtful post for Dela. Thank you for stripping down and sharing your raw truth with us. I recognise what you just gave us.

 

Dela darling .... One time in the not too distant past we had some messages about you only being responsible for you and that if you changed how you responded and acted in this situation (not being at his beck and call for example) it would give you some space, some sense of self-control and give you some breathing room to work on yourself whilst changing the atmosphere of your interaction with MM. Do you remember? DOT is saying that is what she did. Can you see it?

 

I am spelling this out for you honey because I want to treat you gently and carefully now that you are so emotionally frail.

 

I am sending you a PM

 

NL x

[Bittersweetie]

Dela, could it be possible that you are more addicted to the drama this MM causes in your life than the MM himself?

 

Or, as an avoidance of facing your own issues? If the MM/drama was gone then you'd be focusing more on yourself rather than this jerk and what he says/does.

 

Just a couple of theories to think about...

[Midwestmissy]

The noise and drama do enable inaction. Think people on Jerry Springer who scream and rant and walk away from really tough spots with no plan or self reflection. That's an extreme example, not necessarily Dela, but a very common one. Tweens and teens do it a lot. It's not intelligent, it's not mature. it's just not. Making. Decisions. Also, I'm very sorry about the decision you made in regards to the abortion - not the choice you made, I've made the same one and believe in that choice, but the distress it still causes you. It's a lonely place to be, living with those regrets - even though it was the right decision to make - but do not let it define you or be the thread that keeps you attached to him. It's not.

[ladydesigner]

This may sound cold to you:

 

I get that both of you have a relationship built on a series of experiences. I don't invalidate that.

 

However, it would be nice if you would reread my post and answer some of the questions.

 

Because it seems you may be avoiding the definitive reality yourself and clouding it emotionally.

 

I didn't mention your pregnancy this post because I really don't want to rub any salt in about that. There's enough else to this dynamic.

 

It isn't about him being "mean/nice/great/awful" person.

 

It's honestly about basic mechanics.

 

I am not shouting at you from a mountaintop. I am 33, not that much older than you.

 

At 26 I had my first child on the way and had been married 3-4 years. Looking back at that not-so-distant last and seeing a similar emotional constitution between the two of us (including wanting to protect the ADULT men we are involved with) I see how toxic this situation is for you and how you could easily waste YEARS on it being loyal to someone who isn't loyal to you. It's super- painful and the pain won't stop until you find somewhere far more positive to channel that energy.

 

For a long time my troubled marriage became almost my identity, it somewhat absolved me from having to go and nurture my own identity. Maybe not quite the extreme. But I was definitely over-concerned for my husband who didn't seem concerned with too much aside from his own dick.

 

I wasn't going to "talk him out of it" and the best reasoned arguments andshows of support did nothing for years.

 

What changed? I closed the door. For quite awhile and set my boundaries in stone. He responded and ended up going the extra mile

 

I learned even through the book "The Little Prince" and then other books about love and marriage that you don't love people because they are invested in you. You love people because you are invested in THEM.

 

He's not fully invested in anyone. He sits back and has two women investing in him. You are far over invested in him and there's a severe imbalance there.

 

Could you please have a look at the Qs.

 

DOT you are the best! Great great post!

[dreamingoftigers]

Why are you so hooked on this guy?

 

What's your FOO like?

 

What's your bottom line with this guy? You have already said you aren't happy with your current station in his life. But that's the relationship you have.

 

So what's the "uncrossable" line?

 

 

 

these were your questions. i think i answered in my post.

 

i will give u an example. for me communication is very important. i have that with MM. if he is conflict avoidant, he wasn t with me. we communicate about everything and anything.

 

another thing, respect. i don t know how much it applies in this situation, but exclusivly in our affair/relationship, i had that.

 

i m not happy with the situation, yes. bottom line is i was waiting for a chance to a normal relationship.

 

another thing, more psychological probably, there is a strong bond between us because of the pregnancy story...

 

the uncrossable line would be bad behavior, abuse and being dishonest in "our relationship". i didn t have that, he didnt tell me from the very first day that he s getting a D, after few months he said he s thinking about taking a decision and few months ago he said he did and he s getting a D. now he says that because the wife found out it makes that harder...

 

did i answer your questions?

 

Okay I see more context in the post when I reread it. You were answering the " why are you so hooked?"

 

I see that. You've spent a lot of time together that had a lot of meaning and he took care of you. (Not in a bad way, it is also the same thing that initially attracted me to my own husband, he took care of me when emotionally I was a wreck).

 

I could even see the way I phrased the question looking like an attack on him. I've made others because I don't respect how he is treating you, his wife or his kids.

 

I get that you are probably relatively okay with how he's treating you. It probably looks as though he has a lot on his plate that he isn't able to handle emotionally etc.

 

I am not sure what you mean by the exclusivity?

 

Do you mean its just you and the wife? Or is he saying he isn't intimate with her (I think that's the case in this one, the are so many here on LS).

 

I would like to warn you that hysterical bonding is not uncommon after the discovery of an affair. I honestly suspect he is not celibate from his wife anyhow. I know that you disagree.

 

I am not actually trying to threaten his credibility (at this time) I would like you to consider the basic mechanics of his living environment.

 

I kind of wonder how comfortable you would be with him living with a female roommate that he's had sex with before. Wouldn't that be a flag? It would be for me.

 

I can get that this guy took up an affair without thinking through the long-term consequences in the beginning. As time passes though, the very things that create stability in an LTR are becoming less apparent, no?

 

The more invested you become through time and energy, theore you have to lose. And I think you've lost a lot. I think you've lost more than you expected to and more than you realize.

 

You've said that having a normal relationship is what you are waiting for. Do you think that is also part of your bottom line? That you want this to normalize? I ask because you've already expressed being unhappy being OW.

 

If you were one of the older, more jaded OW who are pretty okay with "whatever he does" I wouldn't bother posting to you. They already have the relationship they want and are causing the suffering for others, not also suffering.

 

You seem to be really suffering this. I totally get that, probably in ways that most people who weren't OW wouldn't understand. You thought you were getting one thing, regardless of the fact he was married, and you're getting another. The adjustment there is pretty taxing mentally and emotionally.

 

Is lying about you not similar to lying to you? Do you not so much care about that? Just wondering.

 

FOO. I am still going to bug you about your FOO.

[HappyAgain2014]

i just wanted to see how this story ends and if something can come out of this, as he was saying he will get a D.

if he had told me"look, woman, i m never going to leave my wife", i would have walked away long time ago...

 

It ends when you decide you deserve more. Why is he the decision maker? Why do you believe he'd treat you better than he has done up to this point? Don't tell me he's been nice and cooked you a meal. Love is the daily grind, good and bad together, not stolen moments and lies.

 

The something you seek out of this is a lying selfish man who puts his ego above everyone else. Why do you want a man who tells you to abort your child because it's not part of his affair fantasy?

 

The directness you mentioned above will never come from him. It's in direct contradiction to his lying, ego serving ways. He feeds you a steady stream of somedays and maybes and you eat it up.

 

He risks you every day he stays with his wife, discards your child, and plays the victim. Seriously, losers like this are a dime a dozen. Do you deserve a single man who wants to build a family with you? Until you do, you won't get it.

 

You've invested love and time into this. It's time to stop the bleeding. Tell his wife the truth and move on. You don't want this man. If you got him, you'd simply take her place and get a front row seat to his selfishness. Then you'd see how little anyone, including his children, mean to him.

[anika99]

well, our next conversation will be about this. i want him to tell me what is HIS decision about all this, not to wait for his wife to take the decision. i m not gonna wait around until she decides what she wants to do.

i will tellhim if he wants to stay married, to do that, but to tell me and to leave me alone!! i need closure for all of this, so i need him to tell me, with words, that he wants to stay home and that s all.

 

Dela come on! You know already how that conversation is going to go. He is not going to openly choose his wife and let you go. He is going to tell you that he chooses you, that he loves you and wants to be with you but you just have to wait. That he needs time to leave his wife in the way he wants to do it, but he really really loves you and wants to be with you, just a couple of more months, then just wait until summer comes, then just wait until the dog dies, then just wait for for this and for that. Before long another year will go by while you're just waiting and waiting.

 

Asking him to make a decision is just giving him more opportunity to manipulate you and convince that the sky is green and the grass is blue. You don't need a definitive decision from him, you need to start making your own decisions

[anika99]

i need closure for all of this, so i need him to tell me, with words, that he wants to stay home and that s all.

 

He is not going to tell you this. He is going to keep stringing you along, so what are you going to do?

[Dela]

He is not going to tell you this. He is going to keep stringing you along, so what are you going to do?

 

 

when i will have that conv with him and i see he manipulates me, i will have an answer. that s my closure. i NEED to hear it from him in order to move on.

[whichwayisup]

when i will have that conv with him and i see he manipulates me, i will have an answer. that s my closure. i NEED to hear it from him in order to move on.

 

HE has already!!

 

and after all this, i still hear "is she will want to reconcile, i probably will"...

[HappyAgain2014]

when i will have that conv with him and i see he manipulates me, i will have an answer. that s my closure. i NEED to hear it from him in order to move on.

 

Forget what you hear... Clearly he lies like he breathes. If you pay attention to what he DOES (actions), you'll see he's been telling you all along that he's staying in his marriage. M

 

You're really saying you'll stay until he says goodbye. Why wait? Closure cones from within. It starts by telling him to never contact you again.

[Popsicle]

Walk away from both him and her and never speak to them again. He was never going to leave his wife anyway.

[Popsicle]

Oh and she's never going to leave him either.

[WestEndGirl]

Oh and she's never going to leave him either.

 

If neither of them has the wits to call it quits after BOTH have cheated and now this whole c-f*ck, nope. She's not. Nor is he. I'm trying to imagine the dynamic in that home right now. It must be pure hell.

[Popsicle]

If neither of them has the wits to call it quits after BOTH have cheated and now this whole c-f*ck, nope. She's not. Nor is he. I'm trying to imagine the dynamic in that home right now. It must be pure hell.

 

Not hell enough if neither of them leave. That's the bottom line.

[Dela]

well, from what he told me, she s asking questions about how was the sex, how many times, whwere, when, if i had an orgasm, if we had oral sex, stuff like that...

 

i asked her if he told her it was just sex between us and she told me that she doesn t think it was just sex... when i talked to him after he said she asked him to tell her that she s the only woman he loves and he didn t do that. this explains why she told me it wasn t just sex...

[Popsicle]

well, from what he told me, she s asking questions about how was the sex, how many times, whwere, when, if i had an orgasm, if we had oral sex, stuff like that...

 

i asked her if he told her it was just sex between us and she told me that she doesn t think it was just sex... when i talked to him after he said she asked him to tell her that she s the only woman he loves and he didn t do that. this explains why she told me it wasn t just sex...

 

It doesn't matter what the details revealed are of the A, they'll both still stay.

[WestEndGirl]

It doesn't matter what the details revealed are of the A, they'll both still stay.

 

Knowing what I know about the situation, here's what I think: the W will stay as long as she remotely thinks that Dela and her H are still involved. She'll stay out of sheer stubbornness and the desire to "win". The goal appears to be to stop her H's A at all costs. MM's reasons ... f*ck his reasons, he clearly is hand-flailingly confused.

 

If Dela exits and the W knows that she's "won", she'll realize that she's won nothing, and she'll make her exit. The M is pretty much trashed by this point, and she needs some quiet time to observe the wreckage. You do not get over something like this, ever.

 

I give it a year.

[Dela]

Knowing what I know about the situation, here's what I think: the W will stay as long as she remotely thinks that Dela and her H are still involved. She'll stay out of sheer stubbornness and the desire to "win". The goal appears to be to stop her H's A at all costs. MM's reasons ... f*ck his reasons, he clearly is hand-flailingly confused.

 

If Dela exits and the W knows that she's "won", she'll realize that she's won nothing, and she'll make her exit. The M is pretty much trashed by this point, and she needs some quiet time to observe the wreckage. You do not get over something like this, ever.

 

I give it a year.

 

 

 

thanks. she didn t tell me to leave him alone or something. she said i can have him if i want (lol). as far as she knows, we don t communicate anymore, the A is over and we had sex 2 times.... i also don t think they will remain married for a long time... but i do know that the only way MM will get a D is if she will file!! he doesn t have the balls to do it

[GollumsNightmare]

I.just.want.to.shake.you.

 

Run. Run from this man who is hurting you. Stop allowing him to hurt you even one more minute. He caused you to abort your child. His wife had an affair and he is STILL not leaving her for you. He is a pig because he is conflict avoidant and playing BOTH of you, lying to BOTH of you.

 

He.is.not.worth.one.more.second.of.your.time.

 

Please love yourself enough to run the other way.

[Popsicle]

but i do know that the only way MM will get a D is if she will file!! he doesn t have the balls to do it

 

And neither does she. Yep. Watch.

 

She might lord over him for the rest of his life though. (And they both will enjoy that in a twisted way)