The double standard continues to linger?

[Wewon]

I'm not blaming men for the fact they are given that pass... Both genders look the other way when it comes to men's behavior. Why we, as a society, set such a low bar for men... At least when it comes to sex and relationships.. Is beyond me. That's not my experience among the men in my family or the men I call friends, choose to date, or have as mentors. The men in my life have high standards for themselves... And the women in their lives have the same high standards. For themselves and their partners. They aren't hypocrites.

 

The double standard is all about people looking the other way when it comes to men's behavior, but not women... That's the problem. Both genders do it. I don't. I judge both genders equally.... But it does tend to be men who have a sense of entitlement... Comes from years and years of society not holding them to the same standards as women.

 

 

I mentioned this in the earlier part of the thread, at least a modification of it.

 

The double standard isn't about setting a low bar for men, but a very different bar. Its been my observation that a lot of women put a higher premium on a man with experience (i.e. social proof) than men put on women. Its why the common on-line insult hurled at men, by women is calling him out as a <<insert age>> year old virgin. The insult doesn't swing back the other way.

 

That's always been my issue with discussions of the double standard, they are never really complete. If it was all about penis-vagina then fine, but there is an entire social dynamic at play here, and much of it is enforced by women themselves. Look at the number threads where women will next a guy for wanting sex too soon, or not soon enough, its clear why its seen an as accomplishment when a guy navigates that obstacle course.

 

The double standard is in a fairly safe place until women start to see how they feed it all the while resenting one symptom of it.

[BlueIris]

Why point out that she is entitled to her thoughts? Are you insinuating that I believe she is not entitled to think how she does? I know I have not said anything of the like. While I may disagree with Red on...pretty much everything, I do respect her openness, and I would never seek to deny someone their freedom of thought.

 

Because you misused "feminist" and were inaccurate about what is typical. Labeling is lazy argument anyway. I mean, go ahead if you want to. Just thought I'd point it out.

[joystickd]

 

There are certain habits that our society condones in men because society has a lower opinion of a man's ability to have integrity and have good judgement. It's not MY opinion. I think both genders are equally capable of being good people... Just that men aren't expected to be. Men don't expect other men to be good to women. Women don't expect men to be good to women. At least the ones who date or associate with womanizers, that is.

 

As for the stereotype. Actions speak louder than words. You could choose to act differently and make different choices. The men I choose to keep in my life act the way they do because they are self directed differently.. Not looking to see what they can get away with. They also don't view women as commodities and never have.

 

Womanizers are good at convincing women they are looking for a commitment with 'someone', even if they aren't. They know that most women wouldn't give them the time of day if they didn't at least pretend to be looking for something serious. If you ask me, men who date around are a lot worse and are a lot more to be 'feared' for anything long term than a woman who has done a lot of dating around... Mostly because the woman doesn't have to lie or make up stories. I get it that the double standard started when it was mostly men who made the rules... But these days? If there is going to be a double standard it ought to be reversed since women don't need to lie. I'd say most men who are womanizers are very good liars. That's their main talent. Otherwise, there is nothing else special about them.

Actually I think you have it backwards. Publicly a relationship goes bad man is to blame no matter what. Tiger Woods cheats and he is scum. Leeann Rimes cheats and no attacks in the media like Tiger Woods. A woman can cheat on her husband he does surveillance and catches her then she takes the victim role wanting to start an advocacy group for women like her. In life there are no passes for any action if its negative they all have consequences. If you as a person can't see that then maybe you are not that smart. A woman like you barely understands a womanizer. I've known quite a few that didn't have to lie and women went along with it. Liars are just liars not womanizers. Your bitterness would block you from seeing a womanizer.

[harrybrown]

The double standard exists in other areas.

 

So later when the wife cheats on her husband, he gets to pay for the mortgage, child support, alimony, she gets custody and replaces the H with

her AP.

 

He goes to live in a dumpy apartment in a bad part of town, his life is upside down and she gets to have her cake and he gets little or no time with his kids.

 

Wonderful double standard.

[mrldii]

...A woman like you...

 

You sure are throwing that term around quite a bit, today!

 

Please provide the citation to a legitimate source on how/what/why women like Red Robin are, right after you've provided thatcitation to the legitimate source "WomenLikeMrldii".

 

 

ETA: Oh, and for the record, Tiger 'got in trouble' because he was a self-confessed serial cheater and sex addict. History is full of men who got caught cheating 'just once' and went on to do just fiiiiine, just like "Leeann".

Bill Clinton, Jimmy Falwell, and Donald Trump are just a few examples.

Edited January 24, 2016 by mrldii

[joystickd]

You sure are throwing that term around quite a bit, today!

 

Please provide the citation to a legitimate source on how/what/why women like Red Robin are, right after you've provided thatcitation to the legitimate source "WomenLikeMrldii".

 

 

ETA: Oh, and for the record, Tiger 'got in trouble' because he was a self-confessed serial cheater and sex addict. History is full of men who got caught cheating 'just once' and went on to do just fiiiiine, just like "Leeann".

Bill Clinton, Jimmy Falwell, and Donald Trump are just a few examples.

I'm entitled to say what I want. If you don't like it ignore. Yeah I said like her. She has a track record of negative posts about men. We see on here in current events state Rep caught cheating then taking victim role. She isn't seen as scum. I can point out numerous women that got a pass to cheat. I said in life there are no passes at some point everyone has to deal with consequences. It would help if you actually would read and not skim and hit points. It helps with comprehension.

[joystickd]

Love & Scandal: 10 Famous Women Who Cheated! | YourTango

For women that claim men get a pass. These women got one too.

[Timshel]

I firmly believe that a man who is considered a 'womanizer' is a man who is not in love. The mirror opposite can be said for a woman who 'nexts' lot's of men. There isn't anything inherently wrong with dating and not wanting to marry every person dated/slept with. That would be the best reason for both men and women to not engage in sexual activity in a casual manner. Saying this, however, seems to be passe' and archaic. Carry on, but if so, both men and women should not point their bony little fingers at every body else.

 

There are men who are manipulative, deceptive and straight up sociopaths. The same is true for women.

 

All others fall into the category of playing the field until meeting someone who brings it home. For men and women. Full stop.

[lino]

I mentioned this in the earlier part of the thread, at least a modification of it.

 

The double standard isn't about setting a low bar for men, but a very different bar. Its been my observation that a lot of women put a higher premium on a man with experience (i.e. social proof) than men put on women. Its why the common on-line insult hurled at men, by women is calling him out as a <<insert age>> year old virgin. The insult doesn't swing back the other way.

 

That's always been my issue with discussions of the double standard, they are never really complete. If it was all about penis-vagina then fine, but there is an entire social dynamic at play here, and much of it is enforced by women themselves. Look at the number threads where women will next a guy for wanting sex too soon, or not soon enough, its clear why its seen an as accomplishment when a guy navigates that obstacle course.

 

The double standard is in a fairly safe place until women start to see how they feed it all the while resenting one symptom of it.

 

Brilliantly said. This sums up the 'double standard' right there.

[RedRobin]

A 'woman like me' isn't a hypocrite. I don't look for things I can't deliver myself. As anyone who has posted here for any length of time can attest to.... And like the men in my life (both family and friends), I don't use society as an excuse to behave badly.

 

The only thing a womanizer and the men in my life have in common is that they both happen to have a penis. Otherwise... No similarities. The fact that so many 'men' cannot and will not disassociate themselves from the kind of behavior they get a free pass for is the problem and partly why the double standard still exists in this respect. They give the high five at worst or look the other way at best as long as it's not their partner, or sister, or daughter getting the BS.

 

As for the other double standards that favor women, I don't abide by those either... And have been very vocal on other threads about it. Unlike the 'men' here, you will never see me defending people of my own gender who cheat, or use a guy for money, or even refuse to split the check. I sure don't see that kind of activism in the other side. What I see are a lot of excuses mostly.

[joystickd]

A 'woman like me' isn't a hypocrite. I don't look for things I can't deliver myself. As anyone who has posted here for any length of time can attest to.... And like the men in my life (both family and friends), I don't use society as an excuse to behave badly.

 

The only thing a womanizer and the men in my life have in common is that they both happen to have a penis. Otherwise... No similarities. The fact that so many 'men' cannot and will not disassociate themselves from the kind of behavior they get a free pass for is the problem and partly why the double standard still exists in this respect. They give the high five at worst or look the other way at best as long as it's not their partner, or sister, or daughter getting the BS.

 

As for the other double standards that favor women, I don't abide by those either... And have been very vocal on other threads about it. Unlike the 'men' here, you will never see me defending people of my own gender who cheat, or use a guy for money, or even refuse to split the check. I sure don't see that kind of activism in the other side. What I see are a lot of excuses mostly.

Here is what you do take time and look through my post history to prove I defend male bad behavior or the history of any other male on this thread. I've even said this: Here's the problem. You assume these men are covering for their womanizing friends. Unless you are in that circle you don't know what's going on so the beliefs you have are based on negative experiences. Sometimes guys have womanizing friends and those guys are the ones encouraging them to stop their womanizing ways. Sometimes having a womanizing friend helps you see that a relationship is better than just running around. It's easy to say he has it good until you see first hand the complications that arise from it.

 

If you are going to not associate with someone because of who they are friends with then it shows immaturity because you are not there with them and know what's going on.

 

All men don't give womanizers a pass you are generalizing. The above says that. You see this is the problem with this forum as a man I generalize I have committed the most horrible act among women but someone like you does it and women just all on the bandwagon even if men said we don't do that.

 

Furthermore you can't put this all on men. A man can't womanize if women don't enable the behavior a man getting a pass from a man don't really men squat. It has no value what matters is the women that enable the behavior. A big thing I have been saying on LS for a long time is : CHECK YOUR OWN GENDER!!! In the world of dating and relationships not everything can be blamed on the opposite gender. You want it to change then you have to start with your own gender. The very day they stop enabling then womanizing will stop. It's that simple. d

[sambolini]

Here is what you do take time and look through my post history to prove I defend male bad behavior or the history of any other male on this thread. I've even said this: Here's the problem. You assume these men are covering for their womanizing friends. Unless you are in that circle you don't know what's going on so the beliefs you have are based on negative experiences. Sometimes guys have womanizing friends and those guys are the ones encouraging them to stop their womanizing ways. Sometimes having a womanizing friend helps you see that a relationship is better than just running around. It's easy to say he has it good until you see first hand the complications that arise from it.

 

If you are going to not associate with someone because of who they are friends with then it shows immaturity because you are not there with them and know what's going on.

 

All men don't give womanizers a pass you are generalizing. The above says that. You see this is the problem with this forum as a man I generalize I have committed the most horrible act among women but someone like you does it and women just all on the bandwagon even if men said we don't do that.

 

Furthermore you can't put this all on men. A man can't womanize if women don't enable the behavior a man getting a pass from a man don't really men squat. It has no value what matters is the women that enable the behavior. A big thing I have been saying on LS for a long time is : CHECK YOUR OWN GENDER!!! In the world of dating and relationships not everything can be blamed on the opposite gender. You want it to change then you have to start with your own gender. The very day they stop enabling then womanizing will stop. It's that simple. d

 

Truth.

 

These men wouldn't womanize if it wasn't a successful mating paradigm. But since they are having success, what does that say about what they're doing?

 

That it works.

 

And that is entirely within a woman's control.

[Woggle]

Just because a man is sleeping around does not mean he is using or lying to women. I don't know what world some people are living in but there are many women who are perfectly okay with this arrangement and like casual sex. A man could never womanize if there weren't a bunch of willing volunteers and as long as everybody is honest I have no issue with it. This idea that the women are innocent little victims who are led astray buy the big, bad evil man needs to go. I am not a supporter of the double standards at all but if we want it to we need to treating women as victims when they find that casual sex might not be what they want. Chalk it up to tried it, didn't like it and now I want something more. You can't say that women are empowered and strong beings in one breath then say they are poor helpless victims in another. If god forbid I ever divorced I would probably join my friend.

[Wewon]

 

As for the other double standards that favor women, I don't abide by those either... And have been very vocal on other threads about it. Unlike the 'men' here, you will never see me defending people of my own gender who cheat, or use a guy for money, or even refuse to split the check. I sure don't see that kind of activism in the other side. What I see are a lot of excuses mostly.

 

I agree, I can think of several female posters that don't endorse double standards that favor women, that being said, I can also think of several that ferociously defend the double standards that benefit them, all the while pointing out this one particular double standard as the bane of western civilization. The irony, a lot of those women have very little problem using insults or otherwise implying any man's character for having a different opinion.

 

Where the men may make excuses, the women are brazen and unapologetic and the only explanation for the difference is...just because. Just look at any thread about who approaches or who pays. This doesn't even start in the threads where a female poster is trying to seuss out a guys lack of interest, only for people to slam the absentee guy as "he only wanted sex". I wonder how those same posters would respond if it was a woman that simply wanted sex, would labeling her a miscreant be seen as shaming?

 

Personally, I doubt guys have a problem with double standards in and of itself, so much as the picking and choosing between double standards as they're beneficial.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Wewon

[RedRobin]

Just because a man is sleeping around does not mean he is using or lying to women. I don't know what world some people are living in but there are many women who are perfectly okay with this arrangement and like casual sex. A man could never womanize if there weren't a bunch of willing volunteers and as long as everybody is honest I have no issue with it. This idea that the women are innocent little victims who are led astray buy the big, bad evil man needs to go. I am not a supporter of the double standards at all but if we want it to we need to treating women as victims when they find that casual sex might not be what they want. Chalk it up to tried it, didn't like it and now I want something more. You can't say that women are empowered and strong beings in one breath then say they are poor helpless victims in another. If god forbid I ever divorced I would probably join my friend.

 

I have personally never met a womanizer who was upfront with his intentions.

I know more than a few women who thought they were in a relationship with a man only to find out later he was seeing multiple women.

 

Some men would prefer to keep pushing the responsibility of sex and relationships solely onto women so they have an excuse to have no discretion and no responsibility. Not much different than women who insist a man pay for everything then act clueless why the guy feels taken advantage of when it turns out she wasn't really interested... Difference being that you can't die from having to pay for a date.

 

Both are opportunists and liars.

 

You want to keep your womanizer friends? Go ahead. But unless I know his partners personally, I will never assume that all or even most were after something casual. Sure, there are women who are just after casual. Just like there are plenty of men who are more relationship oriented. I see no reason to assume one gender vs another is more or less capable of having casual sex or not casual sex.... But we are talking about womanizers... And no way in hell anyone will convince me they aren't liars. Good enough liars, apparently, to convince you those women went along with it.

 

As for the double standard... I really don't care who womanizers sleep with. What I DO care about is when those same men turn around and expect someone who hasn't dated/slept around to associate with him or be in a relationship with him... that's where we cross paths. It's not enough for them to focus on women who are after casual sex. I have had more than one womanizer try to convince me he was looking for a relationship. What a bunch of BS. To add insult to injury, his friends cover for him and don't divulge his womanizer ways.

 

There are a lot of men who hate women out there. A lot of men who like to sit on the sidelines and see who the womanizer can play next. That makes them accessories. Call it whatever you want. Victim is a strong word. But I'll be damned if any guy here is going to convince me that most of these women knowingly went along with things. It's almost never the case.

[RedRobin]

I agree, I can think of several female posters that don't endorse double standards that favor women, that being said, I can also think of several that ferociously defend the double standards that benefit them, all the while pointing out this one particular double standard as the bane of western civilization. The irony, a lot of those women have very little problem using insults or otherwise implying any man's character for having a different opinion.

 

Where the men may make excuses, the women are brazen and unapologetic and the only explanation for the difference is...just because. Just look at any thread about who approaches or who pays. This doesn't even start in the threads where a female poster is trying to seuss out a guys lack of interest, only for people to slam the absentee guy as "he only wanted sex". I wonder how those same posters would respond if it was a woman that simply wanted sex, would labeling her a miscreant be seen as shaming?

 

Personally, I doubt guys have a problem with double standards in and of itself, so much as the picking and choosing between double standards as they're beneficial.

 

You are right about that. I haven't seen too many women defend the double standard in the other direction with much success. And you are right.. The answer is, 'just because'. Which sucks.

[joystickd]

I have personally never met a womanizer who was upfront with his intentions.

I know more than a few women who thought they were in a relationship with a man only to find out later he was seeing multiple women.

 

Some men would prefer to keep pushing the responsibility of sex and relationships solely onto women so they have an excuse to have no discretion and no responsibility. Not much different than women who insist a man pay for everything then act clueless why the guy feels taken advantage of when it turns out she wasn't really interested... Difference being that you can't die from having to pay for a date.

 

Both are opportunists and liars.

 

You want to keep your womanizer friends? Go ahead. But unless I know his partners personally, I will never assume that all or even most were after something casual. Sure, there are women who are just after casual. Just like there are plenty of men who are more relationship oriented. I see no reason to assume one gender vs another is more or less capable of having casual sex or not casual sex.... But we are talking about womanizers... And no way in hell anyone will convince me they aren't liars. Good enough liars, apparently, to convince you those women went along with it.

 

As for the double standard... I really don't care who womanizers sleep with. What I DO care about is when those same men turn around and expect someone who hasn't dated/slept around to associate with him or be in a relationship with him... that's where we cross paths. It's not enough for them to focus on women who are after casual sex. I have had more than one womanizer try to convince me he was looking for a relationship. What a bunch of BS. To add insult to injury, his friends cover for him and don't divulge his womanizer ways.

 

There are a lot of men who hate women out there. A lot of men who like to sit on the sidelines and see who the womanizer can play next. That makes them accessories. Call it whatever you want. Victim is a strong word. But I'll be damned if any guy here is going to convince me that most of these women knowingly went along with things. It's almost never the case.

You are not the all knowing seer of what goes on in every interaction. All you have is your experience and that or anyone's experience covers the full spectrum. It's easy to place blame on men for everything that goes wrong in an interaction. Women need to be accountable too. They choose these men and that in itself says a lot. People see the red flags but avoid them because of their attraction to this person.

 

One truth that women hate to acknowledge is that women are attracted to men that other women are having, had, or desire. Go into a situation where it's mostly women and have one woman take interest or say they had dated or had sex with a guy. It then becomes other women noticing him too. Some know he has a girlfriend, wife, etc but they pursue. Who take the blame the man for being the womanizer or the women for pursuing the man? I say they both do.

[RedRobin]

You are not the all knowing seer of what goes on in every interaction. All you have is your experience and that or anyone's experience covers the full spectrum. It's easy to place blame on men for everything that goes wrong in an interaction. Women need to be accountable too. They choose these men and that in itself says a lot. People see the red flags but avoid them because of their attraction to this person.

 

One truth that women hate to acknowledge is that women are attracted to men that other women are having, had, or desire. Go into a situation where it's mostly women and have one woman take interest or say they had dated or had sex with a guy. It then becomes other women noticing him too. Some know he has a girlfriend, wife, etc but they pursue. Who take the blame the man for being the womanizer or the women for pursuing the man? I say they both do.

 

Interesting word... Choice. It depends on having accurate information... Which the womanizer almost never offers accurately, and his friends cover to avoid ratting him out and spoiling his chances of another notch.

 

It would be nice if the so called womanizer actually was upfront enough to offer someone a choice, but they don't.

 

... As for the women trying to pilfer a man in an established relationship... We have a name for that... OW. I blame both people. I don't blame the woman whose partner is messing around behind her back.

 

I can't tell you how many men over the years have flirted and tried to get me to go out with him, only to find out he is seeing someone, or heck, even living with someone! A few married men too.. Try to tell me he and his wife have an arrangement. I say, ok, Give me her phone number and we'll see what kind of arrangement you have. Lol. They look like deer in the headlights. My oh my.

 

Always looking for that back up plan... (Shaking head).

[joystickd]

Interesting word... Choice. It depends on having accurate information... Which the womanizer almost never offers accurately, and his friends cover to avoid ratting him out and spoiling his chances of another notch.

 

It would be nice if the so called womanizer actually was upfront enough to offer someone a choice, but they don't.

 

... As for the women trying to pilfer a man in an established relationship... We have a name for that... OW. I blame both people. I don't blame the woman whose partner is messing around behind her back.

 

I can't tell you how many men over the years have flirted and tried to get me to go out with him, only to find out he is seeing someone, or heck, even living with someone! A few married men too.. Try to tell me he and his wife have an arrangement. I say, ok, Give me her phone number and we'll see what kind of arrangement you have. Lol. They look like deer in the headlights. My oh my.

 

Always looking for that back up plan... (Shaking head).

 

If they look for that that's their choice. Why even waste the energy to hate them?

[joystickd]

Interesting word... Choice. It depends on having accurate information... Which the womanizer almost never offers accurately, and his friends cover to avoid ratting him out and spoiling his chances of another notch.

 

It would be nice if the so called womanizer actually was upfront enough to offer someone a choice, but they don't.

 

... As for the women trying to pilfer a man in an established relationship... We have a name for that... OW. I blame both people. I don't blame the woman whose partner is messing around behind her back.

 

I can't tell you how many men over the years have flirted and tried to get me to go out with him, only to find out he is seeing someone, or heck, even living with someone! A few married men too.. Try to tell me he and his wife have an arrangement. I say, ok, Give me her phone number and we'll see what kind of arrangement you have. Lol. They look like deer in the headlights. My oh my.

 

Always looking for that back up plan... (Shaking head).

 

If they look for that that's their choice. Why even waste the energy to hate them? It's simple if that's not what you want walk away. Honestly you come off as a bitter woman not satisfied about her status among men but can't change it. You come off angry about men. Why is that?

[joystickd]

Interesting word... Choice. It depends on having accurate information... Which the womanizer almost never offers accurately, and his friends cover to avoid ratting him out and spoiling his chances of another notch.

 

It would be nice if the so called womanizer actually was upfront enough to offer someone a choice, but they don't.

 

... As for the women trying to pilfer a man in an established relationship... We have a name for that... OW. I blame both people. I don't blame the woman whose partner is messing around behind her back.

 

I can't tell you how many men over the years have flirted and tried to get me to go out with him, only to find out he is seeing someone, or heck, even living with someone! A few married men too.. Try to tell me he and his wife have an arrangement. I say, ok, Give me her phone number and we'll see what kind of arrangement you have. Lol. They look like deer in the headlights. My oh my.

 

Always looking for that back up plan... (Shaking head).

We all have a choice. Women like you wouldn't recognize a womanizer if it jumped on you. You see a guy that maybe an opportunist. It's sad to live in fear like you

[RedRobin]

We all have a choice. Women like you wouldn't recognize a womanizer if it jumped on you. You see a guy that maybe an opportunist. It's sad to live in fear like you

 

I wouldn't know a womanizer if it jumped on me? Please. I know a liar when I see one.

 

Live in fear? Aren't all you guys here telling women it's our fault? That we are supposed to be responsible for men lying? Not the liar?

 

His friends cover or cheer him on, so there's few people to get the truth from to make an informed decision? Certainly not going to get it from the womanizer.

 

Whatever. Guys blame women for men lying, then they blame women again for avoiding liars. How about men stop being liars and protecting them. World would be a better place. If all you want is a piece of tail then say so upfront. Stop pretending to be looking for a relationship. It's not that hard. Of course, being honest will cut in on the action... And that's the problem. At the very least, don't trash women who did the same things as the guy. Heck, these are the women he should be pushing for a relationship... Not women who don't share his values... Just to see what he can get away with.

Edited January 25, 2016 by RedRobin

[joystickd]

I wouldn't know a womanizer if it jumped on me? Please. I know a liar when I see one.

 

Live in fear? Aren't all you guys here telling women it's our fault? That we are supposed to be responsible for men lying? Not the liar?

 

His friends cover or cheer him on, so there's few people to get the truth from to make an informed decision? Certainly not going to get it from the womanizer. Is it because it goes against your negative beliefs about men?

 

Whatever. Guys blame women for men lying, then they blame women again for avoiding liars. How about men stop being liars and protecting them. World would be a better place.

Actually if you read without bitterness you would notice I said women choose to be with these guys. Can you be a guy on here or provide proof that one of us cheered womanizers? I asked a similar question earlier and you avoided it. I've noticed if you are called to task on something you avoid it.

 

In the real world not all men protect liars and the very fact you believe that shows you are either stupid, immature, bitter or all the above. What is your problem or do you choose to avoid that? Why are you bitter?

[Woggle]

I don't protect liars at all but I won't drop one of the best friends I have because he is an honest playboy.

[joystickd]

I don't protect liars at all but I won't drop one of the best friends I have because he is an honest playboy.

 

You know we all do. It happens in our secret club meeting