Difficulty due to very Specific Preferences

[normal person]

The problem is I never meet girls who have never had sex, let alone has only lightly kissed. On top of that, I can't find many girls I'm physically attracted to.

 

Think about why you can't meet anyone like this. You're looking for a subset of a subset of a subset.

 

Let's say you live in a metro area of 4 million people. 20-25 year old women make up 6.5% of that, so your dating pool is now 260K. Let's say 175K are single.

 

Let's say 1% have only "light kissed" and won't go further on principal (I say 1% because I've never heard of this stipulation). And that's very generous. You're down to 1750 women.

 

On top of that, you need her to be conventionally gorgeous. So take 5% (very generous again ) of the remaining 1750 and you're down to 88.

 

You also want her to be compatible mentally with you. This is more subjective, but let's just be generous once again and say that applies to 33% of the remaining girls. You're left with 30 women.

 

Now if that wasn't enough, for there to be a relationship, she has to be attracted to you too. Maybe 3-5 of those women might have an interest.

 

So you're left with a hypothetical 3-5 potential women in your metro area of 4 million. Do you still wonder why you can't find them?

 

More challenges:

 

- If your metro area is smaller than that, your pool shrinks even more.

- The bigger your metro area, the more sexually liberal everyone will likely be, which also shrinks your very specific pool.

- On top of that, I feel like religion is falling out of favor with the younger generations (at least where I've lived). I can only think of 2-3 people my age who go to church, believe in God, or have any sort of religious affiliation like that. So your pool is probably diminishing.

 

 

I'd say you're shooting yourself in the foot with the "light kissing" proviso. People have a biological urge to reproduce and kissing is a precursor to that. Everyone likes it. No one thinks "just kissing" is at all harmful. I'd say you're right to say you can't change your preferences, but this is more circumstantial than biologically preferential. If you found a woman who met all other criteria, but then you found out she had, in a previous relationship, done moderate or (gasp) heavy kissing, would you instantly become unattracted to her? No, you still would be, but you'd have to disqualify her because of this incredibly restrictive limitation you've implemented.

 

The only way to find your girl is to drop that limitation. By the time she's 22 every attractive girl will have done more than "light kissing."

 

Best of luck.

[losangelena]

Perhaps even consider converting to Islam or Morman or some other highl conservative culture that still practices arranged marriage and make good with the elders in that community and someone may have a daughter or granddaughter or niece or something that meets your criteria and she will be offered up to you.

 

 

The cultures where men expect to marry desirable virgins are almost all cultures that practice arranged and even forced marriages. Men with that rigid of criteria are attractive to potential father's in law, not to the young women themselves. In those cultures it is also common for young women to marry full grown or even middle aged and in extreme cases even elderly men.

 

With all due respect, oldshirt, this seems ... a bit extreme (unless you're suggesting it in a tongue-and-cheek manner).

 

He's a Christian man who's chosen to hold off on sex until he marries. There are plenty of other men and women who feel similarly, ones who willfully choose that path for themselves.

 

I know several women (and men!) who didn't kiss until their weddings, and even though it's not common, that aspect is not impossible to find. I think tacking on the requirement that she be "model-gorgeous" as well makes it harder by two-fold, but probably not as hard as legitimately converting to a new and rather strict religion.

 

I dunno, those two notions together don't really jive with me. I think the desire to keep oneself pure before marriage comes from a place of pursuing righteous obedience towards God, but it's not enough for a woman to simply share that desire, she has to be "conventionally gorgeous" as well. I feel like OP is wanting to have his cake and eat it, too in a way, as if he wouldn't necessarily value what a strong and righteous woman could bring to a relationship. Maybe not.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I'd say you're shooting yourself in the foot with the "light kissing" proviso.

 

Yeah, I'm Christian and I dated a woman that told me this...I launched her. I remember sharing this info with other Christians, and they even found that VERY odd.

[oldshirt]

With all due respect, oldshirt, this seems ... a bit extreme (unless you're suggesting it in a tongue-and-cheek manner).

 

He's a Christian man who's chosen to hold off on sex until he marries. There are plenty of other men and women who feel similarly, ones who willfully choose that path for themselves.

 

I know several women (and men!) who didn't kiss until their weddings, and even though it's not common, that aspect is not impossible to find. I think tacking on the requirement that she be "model-gorgeous" as well makes it harder by two-fold, but probably not as hard as legitimately converting to a new and rather strict religion.

 

I dunno, those two notions together don't really jive with me. I think the desire to keep oneself pure before marriage comes from a place of pursuing righteous obedience towards God, but it's not enough for a woman to simply share that desire, she has to be "conventionally gorgeous" as well. I feel like OP is wanting to have his cake and eat it, too in a way, as if he wouldn't necessarily value what a strong and righteous woman could bring to a relationship. Maybe not.

 

Islam and Mormons etc were just an example. There probably are some fringe Christian sects that practice arranged and forced marriage.

 

 

My point isn't so much about converting to a completely different religion but to find a religious or cultural group where the elders and/or fathers still determine their daughters mates.

 

 

I wish I could be tongue-in-cheek about it but if he is putting on the stipulations that his future bride be conventionally gorgeous as well as never been seriously kissed, then assuming we are talking about someone of legal age, then it will likely need to be from a religious/cultural sect where daughters are basically sheltered and monitored and their dates and marriages are arranged for all practical purposes.

 

 

The Duggar girls are what are immediately coming to mind. They are nice looking and if you exclude them being molested by their brother, they were monitored and directed to the point that they were relatively unkissed.

 

 

And even though they may not have been arranged marriages in the classical sense, they were certainly well brokered courtships and marriages set up by Papa Dugger.

 

 

The young men that have been courting and marrying the Dugger girls were men associated with Dad Dugger and entered into courtships and eventual marriage with Dad Dugger's brokerage.

 

 

I see that concept as the OP's best chance of finding such a mate. Converting to Islam/mormanism etc is certainly extreme and probably woefully impractical. But as a concept I think that the OP needs to find a religious/cultural circle that shares and enforces the values that he holding and get in good with the fathers and the elders of that circle. They are the ones that will be instrumental in the brokering of who has access to their sheltered and supervised daughters.

[oldshirt]

you see here's the thing, groups that highly value sexual purity where the men expect to marry virgin brides, almost always keep their daughters under lock and key and then determine who they meet, who can court them, supervise the courtships and then approve the marriage or not.

 

 

In a free society where women choose who they date and have sex with, are almost going to virtually never choose an adult male virgin-by-choice who will judge them and exclude them for even kissing. When women have free access to available men and choose their own partners, they will almost always have their first encounters with good looking, sexually assertive, charming men that flirt with them and make their jay-jays tingle. In other words they will initially hook up with the jocks and the playa's and the so called 'alpha' males. They are not going to save themselves for the studious, post graduate, adult virgin who hasn't even kissed a girl and who looks down on any woman who has had any sexual contact. Woman who save themselves for that kind of man are women who have been sequestered and kept away from everyone else, pending the approval of their parents and church elders.

 

 

If he is going to have those restrictions and criteria, then he is going to need to find a cultural group that sequesters it's young women and then brokers their courtships and marriages and then get in good with the fathers and elders of that group.

[oldshirt]

.... so in a nutshell, if he wants to find a girl like he describes, he's going to have to have to find someone's daddy that has her locked up at home and have that daddy hook him up with her.

 

 

And again, the Dugger girls are the Christian, modern day examples of that. Find a group like the Duggers belong to and get in good with fathers and the elders of the group and someone will have a daughter locked up at home.

 

 

 

 

(ok the term "locked up" isn't quite technically accurate but it's close enough to make the point)

[No_Go]

Ok, you want:

- a virgin (what do you mean by "light kissing" - no tongues? no lip kissing?)

- a gorgeous woman

- willing to wait for sex until marriage

 

If that's all, I think your best bet will be a young girl (how old are you? If under 25, 18-22 age range would be best for you for attractive virgins )

Also, a religious girl would be great (are you religious? Sorry I haven't read all posts). You can look at churches or targeted dating sites for the religion that you belong to.

 

I think there are plenty of women satisfying your requirements, if you're looking for a very young girl and not Miss Universe, just reasonably attractive.

 

 

Hello, forum.

 

I'm just going to be blunt and admit I have specific, unusual preferences. If you disagree with my preferences, that's fine. That's why you have your preferences and I have mine. The problem is I can't meet girls who match my preferences.

 

First, I'm waiting until marriage to have sexual contact (nothing besides light kissing until marriage). I'm looking for a girl who has never gone beyond light kissing before. Second, I'm picky about physical appearance. No, I'm not shallow and of course I'm looking for a girl who I'm compatible with mentally, as well. But, I find I'm only attracted to girls who are considered conventionally gorgeous. I'm just being honest.

 

I'm working to make myself appealing to such a girl. I work out and am in graduate school with the goal of having a solid career. I've been told I'm attractive. It's not as though I sit around doing nothing all day and am hoping a gorgeous girl will fall for an out of shape guy doing nothing with his life.

 

The problem is I never meet girls who have never had sex, let alone has only lightly kissed. On top of that, I can't find many girls I'm physically attracted to. Does anyone have any advice about where to find the type of girl I'm looking for? Please don't try and change my preferences or insult them. I'm looking for serious advice.

[Els]

Church and/or traditional cultures. However there is a tradeoff in each case that you might have to be willing to accept or adapt to.

[angel.eyes]

searching1992, there are certainly women out there who share your values and would prefer a man who has chosen abstinence. The key is to look where you are most likely to find them. A few suggestions:

• Church and Christian activities (bible study groups, etc) since you're Christian: If you go this route, find a church and/or groups that have an active singles ministry and lots of people in your age range. The caveat of course, is don't assume that every single person in a church or in a Christian activity group shares your views and/or values. Understand that some Christians choose not to abstain and many will rationalize why they don't. You aren't a match. Find those that share your convictions.
   
  
• School: while in the minority, there are sizeable groups of the student population that choose to abstain, particularly once you get to graduate school. At least, in my experience, it seemed way more common in graduate school.
   
  
• Hobbies: I've been really surprised by the number of people (men and women) I've met randomly who choose to be abstinent. Rather than make assumptions, keep an open mind and have the conversation. See who shares your views and values. You'll be surprised.
  

Bear in mind regardless of what characteristics you seek in a date or potential partner, everyone finds the search process challenging, and at times frustrating. The key is to keep looking rather than giving up.

 

Best of luck!

[searching1992]

Thanks for the influx of replies. I'll try to hit on multiple points raised. I'm 23, for people asking about my age. As to why I'm hesitant to date an evangelical girl, it's because I'm not evangelical. They seem to be the only Christians who wait until marriage, though. In response to questions about why she has to be gorgeous, it is simply what I'm attracted to. I don't see the contradiction in wanting both a virgin and a gorgeous girl. While it is true that Christians who wait due so because it is part of Christian moral teaching, many people who wait have additional motivations. Also, I realize the number of girls fitting my criteria is small. I'm not really asking for much more than I can offer, though. I'm also waiting until marriage and I work out and have been told I'm attractive. I don't think it's too odd to want a fit girl with a pretty face. Lastly, by light kissing I mean a quick kiss on the mouth. Maybe I could overlook a girl having made out with a guy for a few minutes before, but would that really drastically increase my number of potential mates?

[LookAtThisPOst]

Church and Christian activities (bible study groups, etc) since you're Christian: If you go this route, find a church and/or groups that have an active singles ministry and lots of people in your age range. The caveat of course, is don't assume that every single person in a church or in a Christian activity group shares your views and/or values. Understand that some Christians choose not to abstain and many will rationalize why they don't. You aren't a match. Find those that share your convictions.

 

Right, there are even engaged couples that go to the same church that live together outside of marriage. So if you meet a woman in church, this wouldn't mean she would share your beliefs either, so you'll have to consider that, too.

[Els]

Maybe I could overlook a girl having made out with a guy for a few minutes before, but would that really drastically increase my number of potential mates?

 

Very much depends on where you live and who you meet. At 23 in some cultures it is normal for the majority to still be virgins (though never having made out before, not so common). But it would definitely be akin to looking for a needle in a haystack in other cultures.

[veggirl]

OMG you want a gorgeous, young, Christian girl - but not too Christian - who has only peck-kissed. Its probably not happening, sorry. Needle in a haystack. Even the crazy religious Mormons I knew in HS who got married straight out of it were making out with their SOs. Maybe join like a Christian (but not TOO CHRISTIAN?) message board and ask for some advice. Or see how many of the Christian girls on there fit your criteria. I can't imagine many do.

[lino]

Good luck, you will need it.

 

Either that or a lot of money

[d0nnivain]

. In response to questions about why she has to be gorgeous, it is simply what I'm attracted to. I don't see the contradiction in wanting both a virgin and a gorgeous girl.

 

 

This is actually where I think you have the biggest challenge. I don't know what you mean by gorgeous. I can understand wanting somebody you are attracted to but for the most part gorgeous women have secular interests & those interests often include some sexual component. It's very difficult live in the modern world & not be bombarded with sexual images: push up bras, make-up, pills to overcome ED etc. If she's really focused on her looks she isn't going to be the innocent you seek.

[stillafool]

Hello, forum.

 

Does anyone have any advice about where to find the type of girl I'm looking for? Please don't try and change my preferences or insult them. I'm looking for serious advice.

 

Yes. I assume you mean a white girl. Move to the midwest or the south and join a church there. I think you can find what you're looking for there. Stay away from large cities.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I can understand wanting somebody you are attracted to but for the most part gorgeous women have secular interests & those interests often include some sexual component.

 

Exactly...usually women in their 20s that are still virgins are at most very plain looking, sometimes overweight, and don't fall in the gorgeous category.

 

It's easier for them to stay virgins longer only because not a lot of men...I hate to say...desire them.

[normal person]

Also, I realize the number of girls fitting my criteria is small. I'm not really asking for much more than I can offer, though. I'm also waiting until marriage and I work out and have been told I'm attractive. I don't think it's too odd to want a fit girl with a pretty face.

 

If by "small" you mean "nonexistent to microscopic," then yes. Saying you're not asking for more than you can offer is totally irrelevant.

 

What you're offering isn't what's preventing you from finding someone. The reason you can't find anyone is because you've already disqualified 99.99% of the population. It's no so much "odd" as it is incredibly unlikely.

 

Your reasoning is illogical. It's like saying "I'm a perfectly nice guy with a lot going for me. So why is it so hard to find an incredibly specific needle in a haystack?" What you're offering isn't what determines the availability of women to you. It's the criteria you impose on them first and foremost. Your dating pool would increase exponentially if you dropped your kissing limitation. I'll go as far to say I don't think you'll ever meet any girl your age, gorgeous or otherwise, who's never (at least) made out with a guy unless she lives in the middle of nowhere (in which case you're unlikely to ever meet her) or she belongs to one of those ultra conservative religious sects.

 

As to why I'm hesitant to date an evangelical girl, it's because I'm not evangelical.

 

Lastly, by light kissing I mean a quick kiss on the mouth. Maybe I could overlook a girl having made out with a guy for a few minutes before, but would that really drastically increase my number of potential mates?

 

What are you going to do, ask a girl if she timed her last make out and then inform her that she went over the time limit by 30 seconds so you can't go out with her? You're going to come off very judgmental and that's another thing working against you. No one will want to go out with someone like that.

 

At your age have you ever even heard of, let alone met, a girl in her 20s who's never made out with someone before? Of course it would drastically increase your chances.

 

If you're not hindered by religious reasons, what's the big deal?

I'm sort of wondering if you're trolling. Every girl your age has made out with someone and most have done plenty more than that. Where do you live and what is the big problem with kissing? I'm not trying to be offensive, but you seem a bit out of touch with reality.

 

 

Good luck, you will need it. Either that or a lot of money

 

Don't be so sure.

 

Celebrity sports personality, object of desire to countless women Tim Tebow net worth: $4 million. Dumped by his girlfriend Miss USA because he wouldn't have sex with her.

 

Humans in their 20s are programmed to want to have sex. Denying or resisting the biological urge to reproduce, or even kiss, is just dating suicide in my opinion. The 20s are your prime reproductive years. Everything boils down to sex at that age whether people are conscious of it or not.

[losangelena]

.... so in a nutshell, if he wants to find a girl like he describes, he's going to have to have to find someone's daddy that has her locked up at home and have that daddy hook him up with her.

 

 

And again, the Dugger girls are the Christian, modern day examples of that. Find a group like the Duggers belong to and get in good with fathers and the elders of the group and someone will have a daughter locked up at home.

 

 

 

 

(ok the term "locked up" isn't quite technically accurate but it's close enough to make the point)

 

I don't necessarily agree. I know a few women, a few, who waited for marriage to even kiss. They were not "locked away," they picked their eventual spouses themselves, and though at least one of them was home-schooled, they are "modern" women with careers living in the city.

 

I also don't agree that all or even most women/girls have their first physical/sexual encounter with a jock or a player. Do you really think a nerdy/shy girl is going to try and win the attention of the football star for her first kiss or to play handsies? No, of course not. There are homely, shy, nerdy people hooking up all the time.

 

Also, it's vagina, not jay-jay.

[VeveCakes]

What's the reasoning behind pecking only?

[losangelena]

Thanks for the influx of replies. I'll try to hit on multiple points raised. I'm 23, for people asking about my age. As to why I'm hesitant to date an evangelical girl, it's because I'm not evangelical. They seem to be the only Christians who wait until marriage, though. In response to questions about why she has to be gorgeous, it is simply what I'm attracted to. I don't see the contradiction in wanting both a virgin and a gorgeous girl. While it is true that Christians who wait due so because it is part of Christian moral teaching, many people who wait have additional motivations. Also, I realize the number of girls fitting my criteria is small. I'm not really asking for much more than I can offer, though. I'm also waiting until marriage and I work out and have been told I'm attractive. I don't think it's too odd to want a fit girl with a pretty face. Lastly, by light kissing I mean a quick kiss on the mouth. Maybe I could overlook a girl having made out with a guy for a few minutes before, but would that really drastically increase my number of potential mates?

 

OK, couple of questions:

 

Have you dated before?

What do you consider "gorgeous?" (give examples)

Can you articulate why it's so important that this women be pure to the point of kissing?

Likewise, how did you yourself end up being a spiritual but not very religious, but with a very strict moral code around purity? Did you grow up in a church community?

 

Sorry for all the questions, you just seem to have such an odd mix of qualities. I'd assume that most men who want what you're after would already be part of a community where this attitude is prized or at least accepted. Most "Christian but not religious" types are that way frankly because they want a bit more leeway in the sex department. Anyway, I'm really curious for some context.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I don't necessarily agree. I know a few women, a few, who waited for marriage to even kiss. They were not "locked away," they picked their eventual spouses themselves, and though at least one of them was home-schooled, they are "modern" women with careers living in the city.

 

I also don't agree that all or even most women/girls have their first physical/sexual encounter with a jock or a player. Do you really think a nerdy/shy girl is going to try and win the attention of the football star for her first kiss or to play handsies? No, of course not. There are homely, shy, nerdy people hooking up all the time.

 

Also, it's vagina, not jay-jay.

 

I've met a couple women like this. They were 18 19 at the local community college and had boyfriends, but parents that chaperoned them or wouldn't let them go on typical "dinner and a movie dates" alone for the sake of temptation. If you think your young adult children are THAT week, that's an entirely different conversation altogether.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this even socially stunts them.

 

I found this quite unnatural myself. But the one thing they all had in common was they married VERY young, usually before the legal drinking age (21).

 

I knew of a high school couple that got married like 2 months after graduating. I wonder if they got married for the purpose of making sex not a sin? I recall making a remark to the friend of the couple that told me about their wedding date and I said, "People who wind up marrying that young, their marriages don't typically last, because they miss out on a chance at freedom and independence."

[losangelena]

I mean, I do agree with oldshirst that this kind of mindset is strange, even in evangelical or fundamentalist circles. Yes, I knew of a couple of women who waited to kiss, but I remember hearing that and thinking it was extreme. And as someone else said, most "model gorgeous" women take a lot of primping to get there, so it sounds like you want someone pure but also quite vain. Do you see the inherent contradiction there? In circles where chastity is prized, so too is modesty. In the immortal words of '90s christian rap group DC Talk, "charm is deceitful and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord, she ain't playin'."

[losangelena]

I've met a couple women like this. They were 18 19 at the local community college and had boyfriends, but parents that chaperoned them or wouldn't let them go on typical "dinner and a movie dates" alone for the sake of temptation. If you think your young adult children are THAT week, that's an entirely different conversation altogether.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this even socially stunts them.

 

I found this quite unnatural myself. But the one thing they all had in common was they married VERY young, usually before the legal drinking age (21).

 

I knew of a high school couple that got married like 2 months after graduating. I wonder if they got married for the purpose of making sex not a sin? I recall making a remark to the friend of the couple that told me about their wedding date and I said, "People who wind up marrying that young, their marriages don't typically last, because they miss out on a chance at freedom and independence."

 

Oh my god, yes of course that's why. Christians typically marry younger and faster, typically so they can have sex and not be living in sin, yes. I'm telling you, watch that documentary I posted. It is about this very topic.

 

See, the women I know who did this, you would NEVER know that to be the case unless they told you. They weren't locked up or weirdly chaperoned—they just chose to wait. In fact, now that I'm thinking about this, I think one of my roommates is like this—she's 35 and has never even kissed anyone. I'm sure she would once in a relationship, but she's never been in one of those. She's very beautiful, too, has definitely dated, has her phd, etc. she just grew up in an extremely conservative Romanian baptist tradition, and even though she's more liberal now, she sexual standards have not lowered. She is strange, though.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Oh my god, yes of course that's why. Christians typically marry younger and faster, typically so they can have sex and not be living in sin, yes. I'm telling you, watch that documentary I posted. It is about this very topic.

 

See, the women I know who did this, you would NEVER know that to be the case unless they told you. They weren't locked up or weirdly chaperoned—they just chose to wait. In fact, now that I'm thinking about this, I think one of my roommates is like this—she's 35 and has never even kissed anyone. I'm sure she would once in a relationship, but she's never been in one of those. She's very beautiful, too, has definitely dated, has her phd, etc. she just grew up in an extremely conservative Romanian baptist tradition, and even though she's more liberal now, she sexual standards have not lowered. She is strange, though.

 

Right, the "strange" part is what's concerning. Usually there's a type of behavior associated with these beliefs. And the personality of said individual can be quite odd.

 

Don't get me wrong, I might want a woman like that, it would be a bonus considering people friggin' sleepin' around left and right these days...so it would be refreshing. But I don't really demand it.