Difficulty due to very Specific Preferences

[searching1992]

I'm someone who is generally in support of partners knowing everything about each other, and even I think it's crass and a bit of a red flag to ASK. What people usually do is talk about their own sexual history, and the partner reciprocates. This type of conversation usually happens a few months down the road, ESPECIALLY if the people involved are virgins.

 

Asking is only going to put off everyone, regardless of whether they are a virgin or not. And frankly I think you're placing a bit too much emphasis on the whole virgin thing. Even when I was a young woman who hadn't even made out with a guy before, there was no way I would have dated someone who absolutely NEEDED a woman to be a virgin as his #1 priority in choosing a partner. There are preferences, and then there are obsessions. Honestly the more I read your thread, the more yours sounds like an obsession to me, which is rather worrisome.

 

Maybe I just need to find one of those women who wear it as a badge of honor who wouldn't be offended. Maybe they're the only ones I'd really be compatible with. I can't imagine waiting months to ask when I would definitely break up with her if she wasn't one.

 

Also, I don't think I'm obsessed with a wife being a virgin. It's one of my dealbreakers, not my only one. It's not as though I'll just marry any virgin. Honestly, it's not too weird of a dealbreaker for a guy who is waiting until marriage to have. About half of the guys I've come across who are waiting until marriage have the same dealbreaker. A few of the girls do, too.

[losangelena]

You started this thread three weeks ago. What's the latest, have you been looking for churches?

[CTRL C]

Maybe I just need to find one of those women who wear it as a badge of honor who wouldn't be offended. Maybe they're the only ones I'd really be compatible with. I can't imagine waiting months to ask when I would definitely break up with her if she wasn't one.

 

What is more important - a person's virginity, or a person's adherence to the belief that virginity should be maintained until marriage?

 

They aren't the same, and when you ask someone about their virginity you are putting emphasis on the former. Whether they're proud of their virginity or not, some new guy asking so bluntly makes you feel like you're being appraised for purchase, like a cow. If you want to give that impression, go ahead, but if that's not your attitude then you probably want to be a little more gentlemanly about the whole matter.

 

A more civil and appropriate method to "rule out" the women you don't want would be to bring up the latter for discussion. Emphasize that you find it important to wait until marriage... that YOU are actually practicing that. No need to mention HER virginity at all. That way those who aren't going to wait will leave on their own, and you've ruled them out without being rude and running off those that do share your beliefs.

[searching1992]

What is more important - a person's virginity, or a person's adherence to the belief that virginity should be maintained until marriage?

 

They aren't the same, and when you ask someone about their virginity you are putting emphasis on the former. Whether they're proud of their virginity or not, some new guy asking so bluntly makes you feel like you're being appraised for purchase, like a cow. If you want to give that impression, go ahead, but if that's not your attitude then you probably want to be a little more gentlemanly about the whole matter.

 

A more civil and appropriate method to "rule out" the women you don't want would be to bring up the latter for discussion. Emphasize that you find it important to wait until marriage... that YOU are actually practicing that. No need to mention HER virginity at all. That way those who aren't going to wait will leave on their own, and you've ruled them out without being rude and running off those that do share your beliefs.

I agree that I should tell her I find it important to wait until marriage. I plan to lead with that. Still, I need to know if she is a virgin. She might offer up that information after I tell her I'm a virgin waiting until marriage. But, she might not. It's vital to me she be a virgin, so if she doesn't offer the information I'll have to ask.

 

losangelena, there is an 18-29 year old church group that meets at a large church (not a megachurch, but that kind of environment) fairly close to where I live. They meet on Tuesday nights. I'll admit, I'm hesitant about going. It seems very contemporary (Christian rock music looks to be a big part of it) and evangelical. That's really not my scene, but I probably just have to bite the bullet and go. I mean, where else might I meet a virgin?

[AMJ]

We have no idea where you're going to meet your gorgeous virgin. Just like no here knows where I'm going to meet my studly, smart, sexy future husband. Virgins are everywhere you'd normally meet regular women. I'm not going to reiterate all the reasons why you are having a difficult time meeting a gorgeous virgin. You keep mentioning that your friends are having great success finding gorgeous virgins and happily married, so....why aren't you asking them for advice, since they seem to have all the answers?

[CTRL C]

I agree that I should tell her I find it important to wait until marriage. I plan to lead with that. Still, I need to know if she is a virgin. She might offer up that information after I tell her I'm a virgin waiting until marriage. But, she might not. It's vital to me she be a virgin, so if she doesn't offer the information I'll have to ask.

 

No, you don't have to ask.

 

Option 1:

You: "Hi my name is X, I'm [stuff about you] and I'm looking for a nice virgin girl to hopefully marry one day. So before we go any farther I need to know if you're a virgin."

Her: "That's really none of your business. This is a first date, we're supposed to be simply learning if we're even interested in each other. Bye!"

 

Option 2:

You: "Hi my name is X, I'm [stuff about you]. I still hold strongly to the belief that people need to wait until marriage before losing their virginity, because [XYZ]. So I'm looking for a partner who shares my beliefs. It's kind of a deal breaker for me."

Her: "Really? Me too! [chatter on shared beliefs]" or "Really? Interesting, sorry I don't believe the same so I guess we won't work out. Nice to meet you anyways."

 

Human interaction 101: asking without *asking*

[Cablebandit]

Op do you masturbate?

[searching1992]

No, you don't have to ask.

 

Option 1:

You: "Hi my name is X, I'm [stuff about you] and I'm looking for a nice virgin girl to hopefully marry one day. So before we go any farther I need to know if you're a virgin."

Her: "That's really none of your business. This is a first date, we're supposed to be simply learning if we're even interested in each other. Bye!"

 

 

Option 2:

You: "Hi my name is X, I'm [stuff about you]. I still hold strongly to the belief that people need to wait until marriage before losing their virginity, because [XYZ]. So I'm looking for a partner who shares my beliefs. It's kind of a deal breaker for me."

Her: "Really? Me too! [chatter on shared beliefs]" or "Really? Interesting, sorry I don't believe the same so I guess we won't work out. Nice to meet you anyways."

 

Human interaction 101: asking without *asking*

Of course I was never going to go the Option 1 route. It's just, even with Option 2, she might not be a virgin. I've come across people who wait until marriage now, but had sex in the past. If she doesn't explicitly say she's a virgin, it might be tough to know. I wouldn't just blurt out "Are you a virgin?" but I do think I'll need to find a gentle way to ask.

 

AMJ, I never said I had friends who are successfully marrying gorgeous virgins. I said they have been able to meet people they start a relationship with without going on 20 dates. You claimed, even when not looking for a gorgeous virgin, it takes many, many dates to find someone to enter into a relationship with. I was refuting that. I also mentioned other guys only looking for virgins, but only some of them have already married. They're also not as particular about looks as I am. Plus, these are people I've only come across on the internet.

[GunslingerRoland]

And the thing that is getting lost in this thread too is the huge jump from wanting a virgin to wanting someone who has never even had a real kiss.

 

 

Similarly with the difference between wanting a beautiful woman to wanting a gorgeous woman.

 

 

I think you can find a beautiful virgin. I don't think you are going to find a gorgeous girl who has never been kissed. Those distinctions which you say are critical to you, IMO are decreasing your likelihood of finding someone from difficult but reasonable to the point where you may meet a couple of girls who match your criteria. And you'd better hope everything else is perfectly compatible between the two of you.

 

 

Unless you've changed your standards, I wouldn't even worry about the virginity conversation because after a couple of dates, when she is expecting a kiss you're going to have to bring up your never been kissed rule, and it'll probably be a deal breaker more often than not.

[AMJ]

Well, it DOES takes some people many, many dates before they find a relationship. Some people are just more selective than others. My best friend is not selective. She lost her virginity at 14 and has probably been single for all of maybe a year of her life since then. When she ends a relationship, she has literally started a new long-term relationship with the very next guy she dates. And then she spends the whole relationship trying to change this guy into the type of guy she's really looking for. 20 years later- after losing her virginity, she's engaged. I'm crossing my fingers these two will make it.

 

I am extremely selective. I have other friends who are extremely selective. People are different. But I just meant that if you know people who are happily married to a virgin, you should ask them for advice. Whenever someone has traveled down the road you're trying to go down, you should ask them how they got there. I don't know what else to tell you, and am not really sure what kind of advice you're looking for.

 

If you'd like to see other people elaborate about how difficult it can be to find chemistry, simply wander around the "dating" section of this site. Specifically the thread about not wanting to go on a second dates with women the guy meets online.

Edited February 1, 2016 by AMJ

[searching1992]

And the thing that is getting lost in this thread too is the huge jump from wanting a virgin to wanting someone who has never even had a real kiss.

 

 

Similarly with the difference between wanting a beautiful woman to wanting a gorgeous woman.

 

 

I think you can find a beautiful virgin. I don't think you are going to find a gorgeous girl who has never been kissed. Those distinctions which you say are critical to you, IMO are decreasing your likelihood of finding someone from difficult but reasonable to the point where you may meet a couple of girls who match your criteria. And you'd better hope everything else is perfectly compatible between the two of you.

 

 

Unless you've changed your standards, I wouldn't even worry about the virginity conversation because after a couple of dates, when she is expecting a kiss you're going to have to bring up your never been kissed rule, and it'll probably be a deal breaker more often than not.

Well, I'll give a girl who has made out a chance. I just lean more toward thinking I won't be okay with it. I think I'm probably deadset on gorgeous, though. I'm not saying I'm looking for the world's most beautiful woman, but I definitely have only one specific type I'm attracted to.

 

AMJ, I have asked those people before. I came on here because I was looking for as many more ideas as I can get. As is the case here, the others I have asked generally said church and religious activities.

[WaitingForBardot]

I'm genuinely curious and actually asked earlier in the thread but you didn't respond...

 

How are you going to determine that the girl is actually a virgin or (more difficult to determine) that she has never even made out before? Are you going to take them at their word?

[searching1992]

I'm genuinely curious and actually asked earlier in the thread but you didn't respond...

 

How are you going to determine that the girl is actually a virgin or (more difficult to determine) that she has never even made out before? Are you going to take them at their word?

It would be a combination of trusting her and observing if she's a liar, otherwise. if I catch her lying to me about other issues or if she often lies to her friends/family, then I'll be suspicious of what else she could be lying about. If she's an honest person, then I'll be inclined to trust her.

[WaitingForBardot]

It would be a combination of trusting her and observing if she's a liar, otherwise. if I catch her lying to me about other issues or if she often lies to her friends/family, then I'll be suspicious of what else she could be lying about. If she's an honest person, then I'll be inclined to trust her.

If you are generally a good judge of character this is likely possible, but obviously not without risk. I have always been a good judge of character but it wasn't until my mid to late twenties that I developed sufficient confidence in my judgment to make it really useful. Both would be necessary in order to accomplish what you want. There's a pretty good book and TED talk called (I think) Lie-Spotting. If you haven't already read/listened to them I recommend you do so. You might find them useful in your quest.

 

And I have another question, something I've been thinking about recently. Again I'm just curious, so no worries if you think it's too personal and don't want to respond.

 

I have seen a number of threads where people say, after discovering infidelity, that their entire relationship was a lie, that their partner was not who they thought they were, that they didn't know them. So...

 

Let's say you find your beautiful, never-been-kissed virgin, marry her, and proceed to enjoy 10-15-20 years of marital bliss. She and your relationship are basically everything you always wanted. Then one night, haunted by guilt, she admits to you that she actually did make out with someone before you had met. Or even more alarming, even let them fondle her breasts. How would you react? Would your opinion of her immediately change in spite of the fact that you had been happily married for all these years? Would you think you'd been living a lie? Would you then make the assumption she was a pathological liar? Would you feel you had been robbed of your opportunity to find the real woman of your dreams?

Edited February 3, 2016 by WaitingForBardot

[AMJ]

The world is full of men who are twos and threes and believe they deserve women who are nothing less than a nine. Much to our amusement!

 

SO TRUE! I have a group of guy friends who used to love to rate girls in bars when we'd all hang out. Almost every girl was a 6, or a 7, or less. I'd be thinking, well if SHE's a 6, then you're a 2, so....yeah.

[searching1992]

If you are generally a good judge of character this is likely possible, but obviously not without risk. I have always been a good judge of character but it wasn't until my mid to late twenties that I developed sufficient confidence in my judgment to make it really useful. Both would be necessary in order to accomplish what you want. There's a pretty good book and TED talk called (I think) Lie-Spotting. If you haven't already read/listened to them I recommend you do so. You might find them useful in your quest.

 

And I have another question, something I've been thinking about recently. Again I'm just curious, so no worries if you think it's too personal and don't want to respond.

 

I have seen a number of threads where people say, after discovering infidelity, that their entire relationship was a lie, that their partner was not who they thought they were, that they didn't know them. So...

 

Let's say you find your beautiful, never-been-kissed virgin, marry her, and proceed to enjoy 10-15-20 years of marital bliss. She and your relationship are basically everything you always wanted. Then one night, haunted by guilt, she admits to you that she actually did make out with someone before you had met. Or even more alarming, even let them fondle her breasts. How would you react? Would your opinion of her immediately change in spite of the fact that you had been happily married for all these years? Would you think you'd been living a lie? Would you then make the assumption she was a pathological liar? Would you feel you had been robbed of your opportunity to find the real woman of your dreams?

 

I would feel betrayed if she had lied like that. To an extent, I would feel like I'd been living a lie. If she had made out with a guy and had her breasts fondled over clothes, I think I would still stay with her, though. I wouldn't be able to go back and become a virgin who has never made out again, so it wouldn't be worth it to divorce her and try and find a virgin girl who has never made out to marry. If she had been naked with another guy or had sex before I would leave her, though. Even though I could never go back and be a virgin again, I would probably try and marry a virgin still. Even though I couldn't get what I really want (to be a virgin who has never made out married to a virgin who has never made out), I would still want to experience having sex with a virgin.

[WaitingForBardot]

I would feel betrayed if she had lied like that. To an extent, I would feel like I'd been living a lie. If she had made out with a guy and had her breasts fondled over clothes, I think I would still stay with her, though. I wouldn't be able to go back and become a virgin who has never made out again, so it wouldn't be worth it to divorce her and try and find a virgin girl who has never made out to marry. If she had been naked with another guy or had sex before I would leave her, though. Even though I could never go back and be a virgin again, I would probably try and marry a virgin still. Even though I couldn't get what I really want (to be a virgin who has never made out married to a virgin who has never made out), I would still want to experience having sex with a virgin.

Thanks for that honest response searching. Although I have a hard time understanding your desire, as I've never cared about the virginity thing one way or the other, you sound like a thoughtful guy and I hope you can find what you're looking for. It will be an uphill battle for sure...

[searching1992]

Thanks for that honest response searching. Although I have a hard time understanding your desire, as I've never cared about the virginity thing one way or the other, you sound like a thoughtful guy and I hope you can find what you're looking for. It will be an uphill battle for sure...

 

Thanks for the well wishes. Despite what some who have responded to my thread seem to think, I understand how difficult things are for me. I wouldn't have posted on here in the first place if it were easy. I rarely ever see gorgeous girls and I've never met a girl I know is a virgin, and I'm looking for someone who is both. I really don't want to die single and never having gotten to experience sex, but gorgeous virgins really are the only women I'm interested in. It's just the way it is.

 

I'm hopeful things will be a bit better once I move when I'm done with school. I'm really not having much luck here. Of course I'll still look in the meantime, but it's not going well so far.

[VeveCakes]

How do you know they are the only thing you are interested in if you haven't been with another type?

 

You can't tell a virgin from looking at someone so you must still get attracted to women?

 

This seems like a major mental block more than anything.

[searching1992]

How do you know they are the only thing you are interested in if you haven't been with another type?

 

You can't tell a virgin from looking at someone so you must still get attracted to women?

 

This seems like a major mental block more than anything.

I think most people need at least a little initial spark to be interested in going on a date with someone. When a girl isn't gorgeous, I don't get even that little spark. As far as virginity goes, I really don't feel anything for girls until I know about their sexual past. Maybe I will think a girl is physically attractive, but I have no real desire to have sex with her. When I know they're not a virgin, any chance of me having interest evaporates.

[VeveCakes]

Being a virgin doesn't make someone great. It just means they have never had PIV sex. That's it. It's not some golden ticket.

 

I agree you need to figure out WHY these things are so important to you. It is strange that you can't feel attracted to a woman without knowing her sexual history. You have some hang ups about sex, that is clear.

[searching1992]

Being a virgin doesn't make someone great. It just means they have never had PIV sex. That's it. It's not some golden ticket.

 

I agree you need to figure out WHY these things are so important to you. It is strange that you can't feel attracted to a woman without knowing her sexual history. You have some hang ups about sex, that is clear.

I already know why it's important to me. Hypothetically, let's say I don't, though. Let's say I come up with a reason that's satisfying to everyone on here. Then what? What does it really matter? I'm looking for suggestions about how to find such a girl. I'm not looking for commentary on my psychological state of being.

 

Also, I didn't imply that being a virgin makes a girl great. I just mean I'm working on myself to make myself appealing to the type of girl I'm interested in.

[AMJ]

Even though I could never go back and be a virgin again, I would probably try and marry a virgin still. Even though I couldn't get what I really want (to be a virgin who has never made out married to a virgin who has never made out), I would still want to experience having sex with a virgin.

 

This, right here? This just crossed a really gross and creepy line. We all keep asking why you have this gorgeous virgin hangup because the "why" does really matter. It's not so strange when it's about your religious beliefs. But with you, it really is about buying a brand new car that no one has test-driven. Which means you literally think of women as objects, and it seriously creeps me out that there are men on this planet who still view us as property.

[VeveCakes]

I already know why it's important to me. Hypothetically, let's say I don't, though. Let's say I come up with a reason that's satisfying to everyone on here. Then what? What does it really matter? I'm looking for suggestions about how to find such a girl. I'm not looking for commentary on my psychological state of being.

 

Also, I didn't imply that being a virgin makes a girl great. I just mean I'm working on myself to make myself appealing to the type of girl I'm interested in.

 

You did say "could find such a great girl" referring to a virgin who is gorgeous.

 

Anyways, it matters because it's going to hamper you from many things in life like dating, having a relationship, exploring your sexuality and such relationships, and it is a very specific request and I'm sure it's based off something in your head that you are insecure about or similar.

 

You are sentencing yourself to a very frustrating life.

[searching1992]

AMJ, my main desire is to have the experience of us being each others' onlys. It's not about wanting to own a woman. Experiencing sex with a virgin if I wasn't a virgin would be a sad consolation, but it is something I still would be interested in experiencing. In a certain sense, no different than a guy who wants to experience a threesome or something like that. It's not about wanting to own a woman.

Edited February 4, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
redacted response to deleted post ~6