Islam....

[moimeme]

Well isn't this special. A bunch of people who have NOT studied the faith, know little about it except for visits to the mosques of extremists and rumours in the press purporting to understand the faith and spouting such utter bunk;

 

The Islam favors the men and women are considered second class citizens

 

isn't Muslim/Islam the very religion waging war shedding innocent blood in the name of Ali against the infidel?

 

I do commend you on your research, and I do hope you find the correct way to God.......but for me, Muslim/Islam is too violent, and barbaric for me.

 

But there is fanatism. And when you visit the odd mosque in most the places the imam will teach about infidels and the evil jews and death to Israel, etc.

 

There are a billion or so Muslims and there are large quantities of them who are gentle, kind, and who don't believe in violence. Just the way not all Christians are Bible-thumping proselytizers, not all Muslims are extremists. There is a lot in Islam we'd do well to emulate. For instance, Muslims believe nobody should be too rich or too poor - poverty and suffering are abhorred and all members are expected to contribute to help others.

 

And Alphamale is right about Nazism - the Nazis had some sort of 'let's do this for God' type slogan on their belts! There is no faith comprised solely of saints just the way there is no faith comprised solely of 'violent, barbaric' people

 

My suggestion to the OP is to do a study of other faiths as well. B'hai, for instance, and Quaker faiths are very interesting. Then when you make your choice you will have truly made an informed choice.

[Moose]

Please don't place Christianity above other religions as though it hasn't murdered in the name of God. It has.

Do you see anywhere where I placed Christianity above everything else?????????? Didn't you see where I wrote, "The DOCTRINE I follow............." To me.....the doctrine I follow is the ONLY religion, and is the RIGHT religion........period. To me.

[moimeme]

is the RIGHT religion........period. To me.

 

And for you. But not for everyone, thanks.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Moose

Didn't you see where I wrote, "The DOCTRINE I follow............." To me.....the doctrine I follow is the ONLY religion, and is the RIGHT religion........period. To me.

 

And "to me" are the operative words in that statement. I'm just saying, the OP asked a question. Not a survey of other posters personal faiths.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by melina

I don't find saying: "there is so much in Christianity, why go look in other religious" distasteful.

 

That's quite a harsh thing to say.

 

Read your entire comment:

 

There is so much there in Christianity. No need to convert to another religion. You'll find tolerance, forgiveness, love etc in Christianity. Why become muslim or Buddhist or worse join the latest Kabbalah?

 

I wouldn't consider Buddhism a bad alternative to Christianity.

 

And Pocky: there are no "local churches" in Islam.

 

There's a Muslim Church and a Muslim community school in my area. As I suggested, it might be helpful for her to go to one of these establishments and discuss the religion with people that have a better understanding of the teachings.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by Moose

Do you see anywhere where I placed Christianity above everything else?????????? Didn't you see where I wrote, "The DOCTRINE I follow............." To me.....the doctrine I follow is the ONLY religion, and is the RIGHT religion........period. To me.

 

I'm not the enemy, Moose. Don't be so irritable with me.

 

You wrote:

 

Originally posted by Moose

Come on, don't start with me Alpha. The doctrine that I follow is Christian and there aren't any violent commands by MY God to go out and kill anyone. Don't go off on a rabbit trail here............

 

You stated there aren't any violent commands by your God to go out and kill anyone, but if you read the Old Testament there are and you can't just erase them by inserting JC in there. Your religion, Christianity, does have in its Bible, specific instructions to wage violence against others. I'm not making it up - I just spent a semester in college studying the Old Testament. And I believe I've pointed this out in other threads.

 

I'm not questioning whether your religion is the right religion or your religion is the only religion. I'm pointing out that the Bible, the word of God, clearly instructs violence in the Old Testament. Your Bible. And while you may not follow the OT since JC died, it's still there and a part of Christianity's history.

[Moose]

Originally posted by moimeme

And for you. But not for everyone, thanks.

EXACTLEY!!!

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Moose

EXACTLEY!!!

 

Hi everybody!

 

Can we not derail the thread with our personal agendas? It's just a dang question.

[moimeme]

Good. Then let's answer the OP without trying to force her to accept YOUR idea of Christianity, shall we? No fair hijacking someone's thread to climb on a soapbox.

[Moose]

I'm not the enemy, Moose. Don't be so irritable with me.

I'm not meaning to be Pocky......you know I love you!

 

I just want it clear that it's an individual choice. Yes, I may Christian, and there may have been a time when God commanded us to seek and destroy. That time is past, all things are new. The OT to me is history, the NT to me is for today and tomorrow.

 

I haven't received any new orders recently, or ever from God to go out and kill anyone.

 

I'm sure that the OP is on the right track questioning and researching like she's doing. I wish her the very best of luck!

[Moose]

Originally posted by moimeme

Good. Then let's answer the OP without trying to force her to accept YOUR idea of Christianity, shall we? No fair hijacking someone's thread to climb on a soapbox.

Where in the world do you gather I was FORCING the OP to accept my idea?????? You assume tooooo much! I've said it before and I'll say it again, good luck to the OP I hope she finds what she's looking for!

[quankanne]

Pocky: Christians believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, that all the stuff they talk about (an eye for an eye, etc) in the O.T. is superceded by his simple commandment to love God, and to love one another. Love, not retaliate. Love, not hate. However, there are some groups of Christians who overlook the love aspect and go straight back to the O.T. roots of Christianity and latch on to the eye for an eye mentality, then attempt to justify it by saying it is part of Christian history, and therefore, it's okay.

 

As for Christians Gone Wild, like Hitler and the other nuts who claim they follow Jesus but live otherwise -- you cannot hold them up as a standard because it's a warped standard at best. If anyone, look at people like the Martin Luther King Jrs., the Mother Teresas, like the people who evangelize through their love as does Christ. THOSE folks set the standard as followers of Christ, not the mentally or spiritually kooks. Because Christianity is a 2000-year-old entity, you're going to see a fair share of those misguided attempts to "model" Christ -- think of the Inquistion, the Crusades, Hitler/the Nazis, etc.

 

getting back on track here: Sarah, your parents will be upset and/or scandalized because you appear to be rejecting the faith values they worked so hard to instill in you, and believe me, it'd be no different if you'd announced that you decided to join the Baptist church, study Buddhism or Judaism, or follow an agnostic lifestyle. It's not what they want for you, therefore, they're not happy about it.

 

Naive had a post in which she said she questioned her belief in God, and how her uncle was being an ass about her faith journey. You are in a similar situation, you are on your faith journey, which right now is leading you to explore a non-Catholic, non-Christian area. You may decide that the Muslim faith is where you want your life to be, or you may decide that after studying about it, there's something else out there that is a better spiritual "fit," and all of that is okay.

 

as to handling your family, someone suggested being respectful of other's beliefs will garner their grudging respect. Now, you may have to yell a little louder than they do to get it through their head that your journey isn't meant to be a threat to anyone

 

I love my family to death, and it's not a matter of chosing my parents over a boyfriend in this case, it's a matter of my happiness and faith, in my opinion. This may not seem like a big deal to many people, but faith is something that is very important to me and something i *need* in my life.

 

assure your family that even though they may feel you are abandoning them in your search for a spiritual home, the love you have for them doesn't change. That you questioning and seeking is just part of your spiritual journey, and that's between you and God. It'll be a struggle, because no one wants to see their belief system shunned (or their values system, at that), but you can do it in a respectful way that doesn't give others cause to complain without appearing churlish.

 

(an aside for Alpha -- Detroit won the Eastern division? When do the playoffs start, and where? I'm gunning for the Spurs, a hometown favorite. And Really Nice Guys, Too!)

[RecordProducer]

Some people like to make all things equal. In an ideal world overweight women would apply on beauty contests. But some facts are well known and discussing them insults our intelligence.

I subjectively find it cool when someone converts to Buddhism or Judaism. Some people think it's stupid, some think it a sin. Christians convert within groups (e.g. Orthodox to Catholic), but usually it's not necessary.

Muslims insist on conversion on the woman's part. A Muslim man will never convert to another religion, but a non-Muslim woman is expected to convert if she marries a Muslim guy.

 

Moose, not all religions have the same approach to life; Christianity or Judaism is used by people for the purpose of having faith. Islam uses people to serve purposes that are higher on the priority scale than honor, life, and love.

 

Yes, there are secular Muslims, but why convert to another religion and be secular? Plus secular people don't reflect the religion; if you want to know the core then look at those who truly believe.

 

Look at the roots of Islam: polygamy, women covering their faces and bodies, being treated like animals, killed if suspected to be unfaithful, and so many other rules that basically understands that a woman is a piece of sh*t! It's the religion that enforces this cruel behavior. If you have found some answers in Islam then use them, but why convert for god's sake and volunteer to be a part of a religion that has no mutual points with your country and the way you were raised?

 

d'Arthez, religion is a mass happening, not an exception from the rule so don't give us exceptions as examples please!

[blind_otter]

Feh. She asked a question. Step off the freaking soap boxes! Can we just like answer her question without lecturing her about what a dumbass she is to think about converting to a religion we dislike? Obviously millions of muslims like it just fine and dandy. Are we going to march into the middle east, crusade like, and convert the idiotic muslims?

 

No. That's wrong. They are entitled to their beliefs - extremists in any religion are bad, mmmkay? fundamentalist christians, fundamentalists muslims, fundamentalist cult followers - bad bad bad.

 

A person with a genuine question? let her be!

[alphamale]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Look at the roots of Islam: polygamy, women covering their faces and bodies, being treated like animals, killed if suspected to be unfaithful, and so many other rules that basically understands that a woman is a piece of sh*t! It's the religion that enforces this cruel behavior.

actually R.P. the above is totally false. Number one, all cultures and religions have degraded and usurped women's authority at some point in time. The Catholic Church does not allow female priests. Orthodox Jews make women sit in the back seat of the car and walk behind the man.

 

Yes there is persecution of women in Islamic countries BUT it is mostly a cultural thing and not based upon religion. The two are very very different.

 

Actually, women are persecuted and downtrodden all over the world regardless of faith. So what else is new??

[Pocky]

Originally posted by quankanne

Pocky: Christians believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, that all the stuff they talk about (an eye for an eye, etc) in the O.T. is superceded by his simple commandment to love God, and to love one another. Love, not retaliate. Love, not hate. However, there are some groups of Christians who overlook the love aspect and go straight back to the O.T. roots of Christianity and latch on to the eye for an eye mentality, then attempt to justify it by saying it is part of Christian history, and therefore, it's okay.

 

 

I do understand that. We've had this discussion before on another thread. My point, however, is that while Christianity focuses on the New Testament, the Old Testament obviously still has its place in the religion or it would have been completely removed when JC came along. It's inaccurate to claim that God, the God you refer to in the Old Testament and New Testament, hasn't condoned violence when God has in fact done that. While the religion may now offer a more peaceful approach with the second book, it doesn't completely erase the first.

 

I felt it important to point this out - especially when one religion is compared as different from another.

[sad123]

RecordProducer,

 

I have been reading your post on Islam. I must say that alot of of what you are saying is untrue, if not very stereotypical. I can speak because I am Muslim. I can tell you first hand, in the Qur'an (our holy book), women are to be treated EQUAL to men, so equal that it is said that heaven is located under the mother feet.

 

Every religion/community has bad apples. You shouldn't generalize and stereotype any religion based on what you see on t.v. or what you hear from some bad apples in the community.

 

More Importantly, you really need to read and research before posting something where you have little to no knowledge of.

 

You will never hear me say anything about Christianity/Juddaism since I don't have much knowledge of either religions. There are alot of bad apples (ie. Catholic priest molesting younger boys/girls in the catholic church) but I am not going to generalize/stereotype all Catholics. List goes on and on.....

 

With all do respect, please research about Islam or any other religion before posting anything as we all know that religion is a very sensitive topic for many of us.

[moimeme]

As for Christians Gone Wild

 

 

like Hitler and the other nuts who claim they follow Jesus but live otherwise -- you cannot hold them up as a standard because it's a warped standard at best

 

Quank that's exactly the point!!!! The extremists of any religion ought not be considered representative of the majority - and every religion has its nuts.

 

you really need to read and research before posting something where you have little to no knowledge of.

 

Unfortunately, it seems to be a growing trend for people to think they are entitled to an opinion no matter how little they know about what they are talking about It only reveals their ignorance, and what's really sad is they don't figure that out.

 

And, though it sticks in my craw to admit it, AM is absolutely right:

 

Number one, all cultures and religions have degraded and usurped women's authority at some point in time. The Catholic Church does not allow female priests. Orthodox Jews make women sit in the back seat of the car and walk behind the man.

 

Yes there is persecution of women in Islamic countries BUT it is mostly a cultural thing and not based upon religion. The two are very very different.

[HokeyReligions]

Well Sarah, judging by the replies in this, and every other religious thread all I can say is, do your research, think about what you learn and when you can defend and promote the faith of your choice the way others defend and promote theirs I think you will have found the faith that suits you.

 

Perhaps that is a way to judge your own feelings of the faith -- pretend (or come on LS!) to defend it against people's mis-conceptions and beliefs about the faith, and expand on others' descriptions for the faith. You will probably be able to answer your own questions.

[Sarah12385]

i'm 21 years old.

 

my boyfriend and his fmaily both have to be the most amazing people i've ever met in my life. his mother is pratically placed on a pedistool and highly respected. his family seems to me like any other, they joke around all the time together, they don't seem as strict as some of you seem to think, and in *NO* way are the barbaric in any way, quite the opposite.

 

i find their way of life *and* religion blissful. they are so happy. they're from Bosnia, they've lived here for almost 10 years now - AMAZING PEOPLE.

 

i've known them for about a year now, and i've never been welcomed into a home so much before in my life. i have so much respect for them, their religion *is* an important part of their life, on the top of their list, but family and children and health/happiness seems to be right up there with it.

 

people get the wrong image...there's more Muslims than just the people of the middle east. when you mention Muslims, more times than not, people think of indian people who treat their women like dogs. i've talked to my boyfirend's father about this, and unfortunetely there *are* people who take the religion too far, who *do* treat their women like nothing, but not all Muslims

 

yes, it depends where you came from. different countries have different cultures, even if it's the same religion, Islam isn't the same in all countries. i know that for a fact.

 

 

 

~Sarah~

[Chris777]

Religion in any form, (true or false)

 

is not like choosing a pair of pants, or what shirt to wear for the day.

 

this wishy washy if it feels good attitude. "well if you like it"

 

would you people have the same attitude towards a marrage?

 

or rasing a child?

 

if your intention (anyones) is to just half heartedly follow it, or to just pick and choose what you like , as if you are assembling some sort of fashion, why do you even bother?

 

there are all these "examples" of each religions "poster children" yet upon inspection, do they really match the teachings of whatever belief, they are ascribed to?

 

Good, or bad works do not make them followers.

 

they make them accesorizers.

 

If religion, any of them, don't really matter to you, then why do you even care?

 

 

If you actually compare Martin Luther King, to the bible, it really doesn't matter what good "works" he presumably has done. If he were in fact a "genuine" true christian, would you not expect, him to be more associated with the promotion, of Jesus Christ , rather than some temporary so called rights?

 

this country has only existed for some 200 years, any so called moral changes be it womens lib, or the color of ones skin are temporary at best.

 

I say this not to insite anger, but because it is true. Every nation in the history of the globe has fallen, and any so called moral, or scientific , advancement, has fallen with them.

 

like a changing fashion.

 

as a Christian, my purpose, in life is to spread the Good news, of Jesus Christ.

 

If that offends you , then so be it.

 

if you choose to follow some other belief, (and it is belief, not faith, not tradition, or culture, but belief)

all I can do is off you my hand, and a prayer. If you slap it away, I cant make you follow.

 

But don't pretend.

 

People do all sorts of things trying to fit in, or make others conform to them.

 

but in the end they are putting on a show.

 

Do you really think that the nazis had that many people following hitler?

or were they just trying to fit in, with the crowd.

 

and when it became unfashionable well history speaks for itself.

 

 

I know its an extreme example, but frankly many people cannot follow a simpler one.

 

and religion, (any of them) are far more reaching than the current trend, they deal with your very soul.

 

be it a salvation of it, or a damnation of it.

 

it is not a whim decision to make.

 

seek and you will find.

[melina]

For all of those who have been criticizing the fact that some people mentioned the reasons why they liked Christianity and advised Sarah to look within her own religion: Sarah did say the following:

 

"I'm at a stand-still now tho. i'm not sure what to do from here on out."

 

So, she isn't just looking for info on Islam but generally doesn't know what to do. Somewhat torn between two religions. That's when I and a few other people stated why we like Christianity.

 

I suggest it is not a bad thing to maybe try and open new doors for her in the religion she has been brought up in.

 

I really find EVERYONE naive who has been brought up in that little village in Tennessee or wherever and is now trying to convince me about Buddhism (just like Richard Gere, Madonna or Posh Spice with her Kabbalah band).

 

I really don't want to brag but my dad was an ambassador and I have lived in so many different places! There is so much more to any religion than just a few lines and reading a book by Dalai Lama!

 

All i'm saying is that (taken the fact that we are not Imams, priests or whatever) we can probably best argue about our own religions.

 

Sarah, have a look around. It never does any damage! Just realize that Bosnia is a very different place. There is a lot of Machoism, Sexism etc. I am 100% convinced that your boyfriend and his family are different. Still doesn't change the fact that their relatives etc. are very very different from you.

 

Unfortunately, anyone from former Yugoslavia has a very bad reputation in my country. (of course not always justified). It always depends how long this family has been in the new country, whether your boyfriend has grown up here etc.

 

I'm sorry I'm so wary in my posts. But believe me, when it comes to different cultures and countries: I have been there.

 

But go and make your experiences. Just don't give your family less credit than they deserve. To someone from poor Bosnia that not long ago was involved in a horrible war, etc. your family probably seems perfect as well!

[moimeme]

My what lengths people go to to justify their unfair generalizations.

[melina]

Whatever toimeme! (and anyway, is your name "moimeme" from french "myself") this is how you write it correctly:

 

moimême

 

We all know that there is good and bad in every country, religion etc. Blah blah.

 

Doesn't change the fact there is such a thing as "a people's character". Of course, you cannot generalize the Italians, the Swiss, the Swedish or the Muslims (as a religion) Of course not! How many more times do we have to say that!

 

Still, often the Muslim community in Sweden will share common beliefs, struggle with common problems and know about certain things better or worse. They'll come across similar stereotypes in Stockholm and that will form them!

 

I worked as a language teacher during studies and it always struck me how eg American expat wifes would always ask me the same sort of questions and tell me the same sort of worries and problems they had. Russian expat wives had different interests, values etc. And Parisians as well. etc.

 

OF COURSE you cannot generalize. Move on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has nothing to do with being intolerant if we share our experiences with different cultures!

 

Even by just living in Europe. By the age of five you will have come across so many different languages and cultures. I have been schooled in Switzerland and used to ski down the mountain to Italy or France to have lunch. Of course there is a people's character. Italians are different from the french, and people from Kurdistan are different from people from Latvia. And if I meet a French person who has lived in Latvia for a while I will happily sit down with him/her and listen to his/her experiences. (without thinking that he is intolerant if he says: they all love to eat this strange thing callled "whatever") I am aware that there is one or two Latvians that don't like this certain dish, but generally it is very popular and generally in Islam you should cover your body up! Like in the Catholic church women used to cover their head when they went to church.

 

Why is it so bad to have an opinion on other nations and people. Good or bad? (and now please don't lecture me about that strange chap with moustache who had a strong opinion on the Jews and gipsys....)

 

I absolutely insist that my home country, its people and values and my religion have formed me. I am a certain way because the people I grew up with are like that! I have no problem admitting that I believe in certain things because I have been brought up that way. Some people feel they are so special from everyone else but they're not! It's the TV programmes we watched, the books we read, the food mummy cooked for us etc. that formed us to a certain point.

 

And there will be a very big chance that a lady in Afghanistan has different interests, values and worries than a lady in Rome.

 

Period!

[moimeme]

That's all well and fine, however your earlier statements were not 'every culture is different'. Rather, you made it a point to say:

Unfortunately, anyone from former Yugoslavia has a very bad reputation in my country

 

which is quite a different matter.