Parenting after a messy split

[BeautifulIdiot]

My partner and I split when my kids were very young. It was my decision after a very long time of emotional, verbal abuse and physical threats. The final nail in the coffin for me when was he locked me in the house and threatened to kill me (on New Years Eve) with the kids in the room. That day I managed to get the kids together and found a way out through the garage, went to the police and he was arrested that night.

 

The kids were very young (both under 4) and although they would have felt the atmosphere and difficulties in the house they did not see anything direct and so have no bad feelings towards their father.

 

When we first split up I made sure we lived within minutes of each other so the kids would have as much access to their father as they wanted and made sure they spent as much time with him as they could. After around 3 months things got bad again and I had to get a restraining order against my ex. At this point formal visitation agreements were made through the court including a requirement for him to pay child support.

 

Soon after he left the country for over a month to spend time with his family and try to resolve some of his mental issues. When he returned I lifted the restraining order so I could help the kids have healthy handovers and also make sure that they were in a good environment for their visits with them.

 

He has never paid a single penny child support and will only see the kids if I physically take them to his house and pick them up again. He has also dropped out of the kids lives for extended periods of time (weeks to month at a time) as and when he feels like it and cancelled visits with them on a few hours notice. He once cancelled a visit with them while I was at his gate with the kids and I had to go tell the kids actually they couldn't see daddy today after all.

 

Throughout this he has continued to be verbally abusive to me and has not seen the kids since 16th December, didn't call to wish them happy Christmas, nothing.

 

Now, I know the guy is a POS, this is not where my question lies. This weekend he contacted me and said he wants to see the kids again. I feel like the kids are starting to adjust to life without him but they also miss him. They are only 6 and 3 years old but they obviously love and miss their dad.

 

I don't want to be the woman who stops her kids having a relationship with their dad but I am now at the point where I genuinely don't know what's best for them. He pops in and out of their life as and when he feels like it and will put no effort into seeing them. For example, when he told me he wanted to see the kids this week I said he could see them Monday, Wednesday or Thursday but he has to pick them up and drop them off and I wont be there because I don't want to put myself in that position. He refused this and said he has no way of doing that so I am stopping him seeing the kids. Although he doesn't have a car, he lives 10 minutes away (you could walk it in 45 minutes), travels 40 minutes to work every day and has money to go out every weekend, travel to other countries and date so he should certainly have money for a cab to see the kids.

 

So, now I've told you my life story (and thanks for reading if you got this far!) from your experience, either as a child from a broken home or as a parent in a similar position, what's the best thing to do for my kids at this point? I could make sure he sees them by taking them to his house and picking them up and I'm concerned that my feelings about him and his past performance as a deadbeat dad is clouding my judgement and I'm just making things difficult for him.

 

BTW - he is leaving the country for 6 weeks on Friday so will definitely not see them in person until he gets back but he wants to Skype when he is away.

[preraph]

It's worse for the kids to be around a dad who's scary and verbally abusive to you. I don't know where you live, but in the US, the state makes them pay support to the state who then gets it to you, no muss no fuss, or puts them in jail for not paying. I think most judges under these circumstances would give you full custody of the kids. You could take full custody and still get child support, too. Or if you're okay with money, you could get full custody and never mess with this bad man again.

 

If you had full custody, you could if you wanted to let him visit the kids or not, and you are certainly under no obligation to do all the running, though if I were you I'd be happier if he didn't know where I lived, even. In the US, you can get a court-appointed mediary to cart the kids too. But damn if I'd do anything to help him see them if he doesn't care enough to send money. They're young, they're going to have some issues either way you go here, I promise you. Because by letting him come around and be abusive, that sends a message to kids it IS something that's allowed, even if it's not exactly condoned. Whatever you are doing becomes "normal" for those kids.

 

So if I were you, since these kids are going to have some issues either way, I'd make things easy on myself here, get custody, and banish that and get him paying child support to the state to help you out financially. At least that way, you are showing your kids "Son, this is what happens if you're abusive to women and not supporting your kids: You lose your rights. And to your daughter, you're saying: It is not okay to let someone abusive and irresponsible stay around.

 

Yes, they will always have emotions about it, but the earlier the better. Once they're old enough, you can start explaining the truth. And if one gets old enough to demand time with him and he can get some time out of his father in a way you never could, don't facilitate it and stay out of it, but let him see how hard it is to deal with they guy.

 

If he was in jail for not paying child support, you would have a ready explanation for why he's not around anymore, at least.

 

But he probably wouldn't be gone long. Good luck. Do what's best for you, because you're the only parent with the welfare of these kids in mind, so what you do for yourself filters down to them and sets a good example and something to model when they're older.

[still_an_Angel]

I'm in a similar position with my stbxh, very similar circumstances regarding promises of their Dad promising to pick them up and showing up 3 hours late or not at all. That went on for some years until the kids learned not to believe half of what he promises. In the beginning I tried to cover it up like you do, doing all the running around for the kids to spend time with their dad, but that gets really tiring. He had no respect for my time at all and expected me to be always available for whenever he decides to pick up the kids or drop them off. It had been pretty tough years.

 

 

I finally decided not to include him when we make plans, and not rely on him to show up when he says he would. Its tough work doing it all by myself, including all the kids activities, school events, plans with friends, etc. but I'm doing it. No use waiting for him or including him in all the pick ups, etc as he messes up all the rest of the plans. My stand on this is I never stop him from joining the kiddie activities but I will not wait for him either, he can decide if he wants to join or not but I'm not relying on him in any shape or form. I think he has finally realized that he has been missing out on a lot of things so he has been trying to keep up. I know and see that the kids miss out on time with him but that is no longer my lookout.

 

 

With regards to child support, I don't know how it works in the US but where I am, it took many months for the government to get something in place as he kept changing jobs (slipping through all the supposed payment arrangement made by CS department). I am deeply in debt with school fees, etc. and just managing to keep above the line with bills. I struggled of course, had made payment arrangements so utilities are not disrupted, cut some sport activities because I couldn't pay for fees or uniforms and after many months, sat the kids down and explained why we are no longer able to attend sports or go to McDonalds or stuff like that. I had to make them understand where we are financially and that saddened me a lot because finances are not their worry but we have to live within my means.

 

 

With all the financial struggles, he had the gall to show up at my house wearing designer shoes, clothes, etc and I seethed at that, I stopped going to facebook years ago because I hated seeing his updates or photos having parties, travelling and eating at fine restaurants with his friends while he avoided paying child support.

 

 

I'm sorry I'm not painting a nice picture but that is how it went with me, I knew he was doing it to "force" me to reconcile, using the kids and my barely there finances to show me that being together is so much easier and better for everyone. Its been years now since we separated, I am still struggling but Child Support department has finally gotten some money out of him but he owes me thousands of dollars. My secret with money is not getting a credit card. I forced myself to live on what I earn. So getting child support since December is now extra money because I don't rely on it.

 

 

I wish you the best in your situation, its not easy to co-parent with a person who doesn't take their parenting seriously. But there are ways and I find there have been a lot of "help" sent my way by someone above, be it child care or other forms like clothes, school stuff or the like. I don't take charity but it seems there's always help when I'm in dire straits. There had been many weekends when all I had is $20 cash, for petrol and food, etc and so far we're still alive

[Tayla]

The court order agreement for child support and visitation take precedence. Review it for clarification. Once its entered into the courts, both parents are accountable to adhere to it , til its challenged by either party.

 

OP, I think you are best getting proper counsel as you are the primary guardian.

 

I think its rather counter productive to stability to be lenient on his accountability. If he is not abiding by the support payments or regular visitations, a review by the court appointed adversary is in order. She/He will review the file, so have your paperwork prepared. Dates of no show, any police records and any witness statements.

 

You may consider counseling for yourself. There are events that need resolved for good mental health. You sound like a caring parent.

[lollipopspot]

When he returned I lifted the restraining order

 

Big mistake, and if your story is accurate, confusing why you would do it. This abusive and dangerous guy oughtn't to be in your or the kids' lives.

[mrs rubble]

Big mistake, and if your story is accurate, confusing why you would do it. This abusive and dangerous guy oughtn't to be in your or the kids' lives.

 

She's lifted the restraining order so that she can try and dictate the fathers access to his children, if you read the original post she explains that she wants him to have them on certain days which don't suit his employment yet makes no mention of her own obligations or reasons why she couldn't negotiate a deal that would suit both.... Sounds like she's using her kids as pawn to me. Not cool.

[lollipopspot]

She's lifted the restraining order so that she can try and dictate the fathers access to his children, if you read the original post she explains that she wants him to have them on certain days which don't suit his employment yet makes no mention of her own obligations or reasons why she couldn't negotiate a deal that would suit both.... Sounds like she's using her kids as pawn to me. Not cool.

 

Not sure what post you read, but the one I read says pretty much the opposite.

[mrs rubble]

Not sure what post you read, but the one I read says pretty much the opposite.

 

I read between the lines. Two sides to every story. The op only shares half of the (truth?)

[lollipopspot]

Well if her half of the truth is accurate, he's too abusive and negligent to be around those kids. Not sure what you're reading - can you be more exact? If you're just accusing her of lying, I guess that's something different, but I don't know what would lead you to that.

[Taramere]

So, now I've told you my life story (and thanks for reading if you got this far!) from your experience, either as a child from a broken home or as a parent in a similar position, what's the best thing to do for my kids at this point? I could make sure he sees them by taking them to his house and picking them up and I'm concerned that my feelings about him and his past performance as a deadbeat dad is clouding my judgement and I'm just making things difficult for him.

 

BTW - he is leaving the country for 6 weeks on Friday so will definitely not see them in person until he gets back but he wants to Skype when he is away.

 

I'm not in either of the categories you mention (child of broken home/parent in similar position), but professionally I've seen plenty of people in situations not dissimilar to those you describe.

 

You're caught on the horns of a dilemma in that on the one hand, as you're clearly aware of, you have a duty to promote contact between the children and their father. On the other hand, you have to do what's in the children's best interests...which is difficult when, from what you describe, their father has a very inconsistent approach to contact - which obviously isn't great for your kids. That lack of consistency seems to stem from a variety of things. You mention he has mental health issues and employment demands. On top of that there is the acrimony between the two of you, which has resulted in him behaving abusively towards you in front of the children - which absolutely isn't something you ought to tolerate.

 

I'm not sure why anybody would perceive you (from your post, or from reading between the lines) as using your children as a pawn. You sound to me like somebody trying to figure out what's best for her children in a messy situation. I'm guessing that the children are now of school age. What kind of reports are you getting from their schools? Any problems being reported? Schools generally have good links with other resources which could perhaps assist you in figuring out what a good approach to this difficult situation might be, but there's also a strong chance that if there aren't any particular problems at school they will advise you that this is a matter you'd be better discussing with a lawyer.

 

If you can afford to go and see a reputable family lawyer, or if you're entitled to legal aid for this, I would suggest making an appointment with one to have a chat about this...making it clear that your aim is to resolve this with the minimum of acrimony, and to focus on the children's best interests. It should go without saying, of course, but unfortunately there are some lawyers out there who practice family law with their fee targets (rather than the child's best interests) in mind. So shop around and get recommendations from other people before committing to an appointment.

[TaraMaiden2]

I'm not in either of the categories you mention (child of broken home/parent in similar position), but professionally I've seen plenty of people in situations not dissimilar to those you describe.

 

You're caught on the horns of a dilemma in that on the one hand, as you're clearly aware of, you have a duty to promote contact between the children and their father. On the other hand, you have to do what's in the children's best interests...which is difficult when, from what you describe, their father has a very inconsistent approach to contact - which obviously isn't great for your kids. That lack of consistency seems to stem from a variety of things. You mention he has mental health issues and employment demands. On top of that there is the acrimony between the two of you, which has resulted in him behaving abusively towards you in front of the children - which absolutely isn't something you ought to tolerate.

 

I'm not sure why anybody would perceive you (from your post, or from reading between the lines) as using your children as a pawn. You sound to me like somebody trying to figure out what's best for her children in a messy situation. I'm guessing that the children are now of school age. What kind of reports are you getting from their schools? Any problems being reported? Schools generally have good links with other resources which could perhaps assist you in figuring out what a good approach to this difficult situation might be, but there's also a strong chance that if there aren't any particular problems at school they will advise you that this is a matter you'd be better discussing with a lawyer.

 

If you can afford to go and see a reputable family lawyer, or if you're entitled to legal aid for this, I would suggest making an appointment with one to have a chat about this...making it clear that your aim is to resolve this with the minimum of acrimony, and to focus on the children's best interests. It should go without saying, of course, but unfortunately there are some lawyers out there who practice family law with their fee targets (rather than the child's best interests) in mind. So shop around and get recommendations from other people before committing to an appointment.

 

mrs rubble is male.

 

'Nuff said.

[BeautifulIdiot]

She's lifted the restraining order so that she can try and dictate the fathers access to his children, if you read the original post she explains that she wants him to have them on certain days which don't suit his employment yet makes no mention of her own obligations or reasons why she couldn't negotiate a deal that would suit both.... Sounds like she's using her kids as pawn to me. Not cool.

 

I just want to clarify this. He actually suggested the court appointed visitation days, all I did was sign to agree to them. The visitation was all on his terms as I wasn't in a great place when it went through so I agreed to everything he asked for (every Wednesday afternoon, every second weekend and alternate weeks during holidays). He was not able to do this and I lifted the restraining order for a few reasons:

 

1. I felt really uncomfortable with the kids going with a stranger for handover and what impact that would have on them

2. He wasn't able to adhere to the court appointed visitation by collecting the kids from school and dropping them off so the only way they would see him is if I physically took them to him. I couldn't do that with a restraining order in place

3. Yes, I wanted to see what state he and his place was in when the kids were going there. He has always been loving to the kids (all of the aggression is solely aimed at me, not another human in the world. If you knew him you'd probably think he was a stand up guy) but as I know how unstable he can be I know that can spill over to his living arrangements and general stability

 

I take your point about using the kids as pawns and that's the very thing I dont want to allow myself to become. Finding the balance between allowing them to have that relationship with their father and do my best to ensure their future mental well being over this whilst not compromising my own integrity is the crux of my original post.

[BeautifulIdiot]

The court order agreement for child support and visitation take precedence. Review it for clarification. Once its entered into the courts, both parents are accountable to adhere to it , til its challenged by either party.

 

OP, I think you are best getting proper counsel as you are the primary guardian.

 

I think its rather counter productive to stability to be lenient on his accountability. If he is not abiding by the support payments or regular visitations, a review by the court appointed adversary is in order. She/He will review the file, so have your paperwork prepared. Dates of no show, any police records and any witness statements.

 

You may consider counseling for yourself. There are events that need resolved for good mental health. You sound like a caring parent.

 

Thank you Tayla, I did start counseling when the relationship ended. I needed it, I'd lost myself and become someone I didn't recognise. I'm stronger now and can stand up to him in ways I could never have done in the past.

 

I do have legal council but they are taking a very hard line on wanting to send him to jail and have him removed from everyone's lives.

[BeautifulIdiot]

I'm not in either of the categories you mention (child of broken home/parent in similar position), but professionally I've seen plenty of people in situations not dissimilar to those you describe.

 

You're caught on the horns of a dilemma in that on the one hand, as you're clearly aware of, you have a duty to promote contact between the children and their father. On the other hand, you have to do what's in the children's best interests...which is difficult when, from what you describe, their father has a very inconsistent approach to contact - which obviously isn't great for your kids. That lack of consistency seems to stem from a variety of things. You mention he has mental health issues and employment demands. On top of that there is the acrimony between the two of you, which has resulted in him behaving abusively towards you in front of the children - which absolutely isn't something you ought to tolerate.

 

I'm not sure why anybody would perceive you (from your post, or from reading between the lines) as using your children as a pawn. You sound to me like somebody trying to figure out what's best for her children in a messy situation. I'm guessing that the children are now of school age. What kind of reports are you getting from their schools? Any problems being reported? Schools generally have good links with other resources which could perhaps assist you in figuring out what a good approach to this difficult situation might be, but there's also a strong chance that if there aren't any particular problems at school they will advise you that this is a matter you'd be better discussing with a lawyer.

 

If you can afford to go and see a reputable family lawyer, or if you're entitled to legal aid for this, I would suggest making an appointment with one to have a chat about this...making it clear that your aim is to resolve this with the minimum of acrimony, and to focus on the children's best interests. It should go without saying, of course, but unfortunately there are some lawyers out there who practice family law with their fee targets (rather than the child's best interests) in mind. So shop around and get recommendations from other people before committing to an appointment.

 

Thanks Taramere. Both kids are at school and have glowing reports both in terms of emotional and academic development. They also go to a school that is not in their native English so they're doing spectacularly considering they're learning another language.

 

In terms of him being abusive to me in front of the children, I have recordings of him doing that which is with the court. Thankfully I'm financially stable and dont need the child support so I'm also using the fact that he's not paying any child support as grounds to be awarded full custody.

 

Unfortunately the last time he saw them in December for the first time I lost my temper in front of the kids. It was drop off at his house and he spent the entire time antagonizing me and saying that he wouldn't bring the kids back to the gate when they were due to come home (the doorbell and phone dont work so there's no way for me to call to say I'm there) and all I saw was that here we are, years later and he's still treating me the same way, like something on the sole of his shoe. I lost my temper and started screaming at him, the kids started crying, I started crying. It was horrible, I'm horribly ashamed at how I behaved and I have vowed I will never put any of us in that position again.

 

So, here I am, he's back in touch again wanting to see them this week and I don't know how much I should do to make him see them but am gaining more clarify from your insights, thank you. I have not stopped him seeing them, I have given him options for almost every day this week before he leaves the country on Friday but I will not take them to him and pick them up. All he has to do is collect them from school and drop them off to a mutual friend.

 

Just for clarity, the trips out of the country are not work related. Apparently he has money for this, just not for his kids. In his eyes (he has told me this) because I earn more than him he shouldn't have to pay anything to the kids, I can afford it.

[BeautifulIdiot]

Also, just for some clarity on his work commitments. He works from home and is ALWAYS working when the kids are there.

 

*EDIT* I know my OP said he travels 40 mins to work every day. He works from home when he has the kids. He works in the office the rest of the time.

Edited January 13, 2016 by BeautifulIdiot

[mrs rubble]

mrs rubble is male.

 

'Nuff said.

 

Nope, a female parent who has been in the same scenario.

 

OP- if the courts are being hardline you should be paying attention.

The restraining order is to protect your kids from being exposed to the abuse you describe in the handover.

[BeautifulIdiot]

Nope, a female parent who has been in the same scenario.

 

OP- if the courts are being hardline you should be paying attention.

The restraining order is to protect your kids from being exposed to the abuse you describe in the handover.

 

The problem is that if I don't take them, he doesn't see them. So, your advice is to do exactly that and let the relationship with their dad die and deal with the consequences of that? It's not every handover and they still want to see their dad.

[turnera]

I do have legal council but they are taking a very hard line on wanting to send him to jail and have him removed from everyone's lives.

For what reason, specifically?

[turnera]

The problem is that if I don't take them, he doesn't see them. So, your advice is to do exactly that and let the relationship with their dad die and deal with the consequences of that? It's not every handover and they still want to see their dad.

Yes.

 

You are enabling him. YOUR job now is to say "this is the agreed-upon time and place. We will wait 20 minutes beyond the agreed-upon pickup time for you and if you can't make it by then, we will go home." No more taking them to him. He either meets you at an arranged pickup zone or he doesn't see them at all. Period.

[BeautifulIdiot]

For what reason, specifically?

 

Emotional and verbal abuse (considered domestic violence in my country), harassment (289 violently abusive messages in 12 hours alone one day), breaking into my house while I was out the country and stealing all of my devices then hacking into all of my online accounts.

 

The thing is that I would never even have involved lawyers and the police to this level but while I was out the country for work (the time he broke into my house) he had the kids and went to a court for the first time ever and told them I'd abandoned the kids in his care and filed for full custody and swore I'd never see them again. Since then I've never trusted him fully with the kids. We're only in this position with the court now because of what he started then. It breaks my heart that my kids are caught up in this but I genuinely don't know how to stop it or make it better.

[lollipopspot]

The problem is that if I don't take them, he doesn't see them. So, your advice is to do exactly that and let the relationship with their dad die and deal with the consequences of that? It's not every handover and they still want to see their dad.

 

Yes, let their relationship with the dad die if the dad can't be bothered to see them. I'm not sure why you would bend over backwards to enable such an abusive guy to be with the kids. You report that he locked you up and threatened to kill you - if that's the case, then that's a restraining order I wouldn't lift without a lot of effort to prove he had changed.

[BeautifulIdiot]

Yes, let their relationship with the dad die if the dad can't be bothered to see them. I'm not sure why you would bend over backwards to enable such an abusive guy to be with the kids. You report that he locked you up and threatened to kill you - if that's the case, then that's a restraining order I wouldn't lift without a lot of effort to prove he had changed.

 

In answer to the bending over backwards thing. I've seen kids grow up to be 19 and 20 and have real issues with not knowing who their dad is. I don't want to do that to my kids. The bending over backwards is for them, not for him.

 

I'm telling you about the most abusive stuff that he did and why we're not together. This abuse is only, and only ever has been, aimed at me. I'm also telling you the worst of what he's done to give my view on it and why I'm now at this crossroads of trying to figure out if me getting to the point that I want to stop making the same kind of effort for the kids to see him is the best thing for them or is more about my feelings towards him.

Edited January 13, 2016 by BeautifulIdiot

[Tayla]

In answer to the bending over backwards thing. I've seen kids grow up to be 19 and 20 and have real issues with not knowing who their dad is. I don't want to do that to my kids. The bending over backwards is for them, not for him..

 

May I say that such an assumption that kids turn out wayward without the father is discrediting you, the loving parent. Children can have positive gender role models . I had five fatherly figures thru my childhood.Each one taught or influenced my being . my bio dad was by far an ill moral man and my mom had to step it up to make sure he had little opportunity to influence the 6 kids she had with him. I was placed in the foster system. That is how I got blessed with mature adults who mentored me thru some quandaries.The point is, you have the ability to do right by your kids. Do it. Hold him accountable to be there . The courts are used to these family scenarios, so entrust their process.you are not helping if you are defying the outline of the visitation and support.

I sincerely think your heart is in the right place. Who knows, maybe a wonderful gent will grace your path and be that positive role model for your children.

[Timshel]

In answer to the bending over backwards thing. I've seen kids grow up to be 19 and 20 and have real issues with not knowing who their dad is. I don't want to do that to my kids. The bending over backwards is for them, not for him.

 

I'm telling you about the most abusive stuff that he did and why we're not together. This abuse is only, and only ever has been, aimed at me. I'm also telling you the worst of what he's done to give my view on it and why I'm now at this crossroads of trying to figure out if me getting to the point that I want to stop making the same kind of effort for the kids to see him is the best thing for them or is more about my feelings towards him.

 

I think that you are making a mistake, subjecting and involving your children to an abusive and unstable man. That was your mistake, not there's. Ridiculous that you believe your children will suffer without their dad if knowing him exposes them to drama and possible harm. What your children need is consistency, stability and love. You say your own legal counsel is against lifting the restraining order? I am having trouble understanding your motivations.

Do you have a desire to continue contact with this man for yourself?

[turnera]

This abuse is only, and only ever has been, aimed at me.

This is NOT just aimed at you. This affects your kids just as much as you. This is ridiculous. Kids seeing a dad, then not seeing a dad, then waiting for a dad, then having a dad tell them mommy's sick and a b*tch and all the other things he's going to tell them about you...THAT is abuse. And that fear and insecurity and crazy-making is MUCH more damaging than having kids grow up not knowing their father and waiting until they're older and go look him up themselves, AFTER their core goodness has been established by you without all the sh*t he will bring into their lives. Stop making excuses.