Men and caving early on in a relationship?

[hippychick3]

Ugh. Microbiologist needs some social skills. He's been spending too much time in the lab!

[katiegrl]

Can I tuck you in? During the first chat?

 

Oh come on!!!

 

You just can't make this stuff up, can you...LOL

 

What is with these guys, jesus!

 

Next....

[dobielover]

No. Your understanding is totally skewed.

 

He's being rude and unsociable. This is a woman with whom he's supposed to be embryonically starting a relationship with. As far as 'first steps go, he's tripping up, badly.

If anyone is petulant, it's him.

 

No, my understanding is not skewed.

 

What's skewed is your understanding of how men operate when stressed. You, G, Katie, cannot expect him, as a man, to operate and behave the same way you would, as a woman, during his time of crisis. When a man is in a crisis, he is not focused on a woman's emotional needs.

 

I understand that's not pleasant, and we as women don't like it. We like to COMMUNICATE and we expect COMMUNICATION about EVERY DAMN THING that doesn't even include us, like when he loses his manhood (his job) and he's scrambling around figuring out how to regain it.

 

They're problem solvers and they don't want to talk about it. They want to fix it.

 

This whole thing is actually quite selfish.

 

Hello? You lost your job? Hi. Pay attention to me. Hi? You there? I'm here waiting for you to talk to me because I'm important and I have needs during your crisis, pay attention to me. This is unacceptable. Let me pile on more stress for you. Let me make you have to worry about me too, on top of everything else you're dealing with right now. Let me make you have to placate me. No, I can't have common sense and give you two days. At two days I'm going to assume the worst and assume you're not coming back and that you're an immature jerk. Because I'm not in control of my emotions. Oh! You know that, don't you?! That's why you're not responding!! Because you don't want to have to deal with the hassle of me while you're dealing with the hassle of losing your sole source of income and reason for being in this country, one of the most stressful experiences a person, and especially a man, can experience! Hello! Pay attention to me!!!

 

Yeah. So while there were two attempts at contact, however polite, his experience is quite different.

 

The dude is stressed. He's dealing. Let him deal.

[Gaeta]

Heh, the guy didn't get to be a microbiologist by fixing drains like a plumber. Guys at that level are smart and focused and it's often hard for them to turn that brain off and get back to being the plumber who can fix the drain but admire the legs he's gazing upon while under the sink.

 

haha, I am not holding it against him. He's a nerd.

[TaraMaiden2]

The dude is stressed. He should at least communicate he's stressed.

Hi. Sorry, I'm just not into talking right now. Give me a few days. Thanks."

 

There's 'stressed' and there's 'damn rude'.

 

men need to understand that the two are not mutually exclusive.

It's called consideration.

 

Oh, sorry.... What?

It all has to be one-sided?

 

Gimme a break, this is 2026, not 1816!

 

(I didn't say 1916, because in my country, all the guys were away fighting on The Front, being poisoned by Mustard gas, and getting blown to bits in Flanders Fields. Now THAT'S "Stress".)

[Timshel]

Dobie....you have really taken up this man's cause.. Gaeta knows very well how to conduct her affairs and this guy is a grown man who is not in need of your sympathy or assistance.

 

Jeez...should she wait passively to appease you Dobie?? Let it go. FTR, I completely agree with Gaeta's choice of action at this point. It is only confusing that you seem to be taking her decision so personally.

 

It was/is Gaeta's choice and she is doing him zero harm. Wth?

[hippychick3]

No, my understanding is not skewed.

 

What's skewed is your understanding of how men operate when stressed. You, G, Katie, cannot expect him, as a man, to operate and behave the same way you would, as a woman, during his time of crisis. When a man is in a crisis, he is not focused on a woman's emotional needs.

 

I understand that's not pleasant, and we as women don't like it. We like to COMMUNICATE and we expect COMMUNICATION about EVERY DAMN THING that doesn't even include us, like when he loses his manhood (his job) and he's scrambling around figuring out how to regain it.

 

They're problem solvers and they don't want to talk about it. They want to fix it.

 

This whole thing is actually quite selfish.

 

Hello? You lost your job? Hi. Pay attention to me. Hi? You there? I'm here waiting for you to talk to me because I'm important and I have needs during your crisis, pay attention to me. This is unacceptable. Let me pile on more stress for you. Let me make you have to worry about me too, on top of everything else you're dealing with right now. Let me make you have to placate me. No, I can't have common sense and give you two days. At two days I'm going to assume the worst and assume you're not coming back and that you're an immature jerk. Because I'm not in control of my emotions. Oh! You know that, don't you?! That's why you're not responding!! Because you don't want to have to deal with the hassle of me while you're dealing with the hassle of losing your sole source of income and reason for being in this country, one of the most stressful experiences a person, and especially a man, can experience! Hello! Pay attention to me!!!

 

Yeah. So while there were two attempts at contact, however polite, his experience is quite different.

 

The dude is stressed. He's dealing. Let him deal.

 

Actually, she is letting him deal. And in the process of letting him deal, she is moving on with her own life. As she SHOULD!

[katiegrl]

Personally, as you know dobie, I am notorious for granting men *space*.....leaving them alone to work out whatever they need to ...no contact for a couple of days is NOT a huge deal to me at all. Don't know how many umpteenth times I have said this on this board.

 

However, as we have been saying on THIS thread, this is MORE than no contact for two days, and his excuse that he is stressed about his job, based on his previous behavior, does NOT fly.

 

There is something else going on....from lost interest, another woman, who the hell knows, but given the circumstances he has provided to Gaeta re his ambiguous job situation, and his reaction theteto...suffice it to say this job *crisis* is just an excuse because he wants out.

 

His history with Gaeta is that he has been elusive, distant, inconsistent and frankly disrespectful for quite some time. And remember, they have only been seeing each other one month, this is not a committed LTR.

 

THAT is why Gaeta is walking away ....NOT because he hasn't contacted her for two (now three) days.

Edited January 15, 2016 by katiegrl

[Gaeta]

Hello? You lost your job? Hi. Pay attention to me. Hi? You there? I'm here waiting for you to talk to me because I'm important and I have needs during your crisis, pay attention to me. This is unacceptable. Let me pile on more stress for you. Let me make you have to worry about me too, on top of everything else you're dealing with right now. Let me make you have to placate me.

 

Dobie: Where did you read I needed him to give me attention or to fulfill my emotional needs?

 

I simply want a warning. The same warning he would give a brother texting him or a colleague texting him.

 

If his dentist calls to confirm his appointment you think he's not going to pick up? Yes he will pick up and change his appointment for a more appropriate time. I am asking for that courtesy. Nothing more than the courtesy to tell me Gaeta, I'm running through some tough time I'll get back to you in a week or 2. End of message.

 

How demanding of him is that?

 

How emotionally draining of him is that?

 

How is that asking him to worry about me?

 

How is that asking him to share his problems with me?

 

It's none of that.

 

No, I can't have common sense and give you two days. At two days I'm going to assume the worst and assume you're not coming back and that you're an immature jerk.

I don't know why you insist on this '2 days'. It's been since Last Friday. He avoided seeing me over the weekend, nothing from him Monday and last time we spoke Tuesday morning.

 

Because I'm not in control of my emotions.

It's not a matter of emotions. Are you reflecting or something here. It's a matter of maturity and consideration.

 

Oh! You know that, don't you?! That's why you're not responding!! Because you don't want to have to deal with the hassle of me while you're dealing with the hassle of losing your sole source of income and reason for being in this country, one of the most stressful experiences a person, and especially a man, can experience! Hello! Pay attention to me!!!

How do you know it's his only source of income? How do you know this work visa is his only ticket here? you think people establishing themselves in a new country arrive with empty pockets? He's 48, has always own his company before moving here and after looking him up I see he owns buildings and lands in middle of Paris. I would not call him 'poor'.

[BluEyeL]

Did he ever reply to your last text?

[Gaeta]

Did he ever reply to your last text?

 

No he did not and if he does you bet I will update this thread!

[jen1447]

Did he ever reply to your last text?

No he did not and if he does you bet I will update this thread!

That's so weak. I'd honestly have a tough time finding any respect for him even if he came back sniffing around in a few days. Again (IMO) the only way a no-reply whether over phone or text is justified is if he's literally in the middle of some emergency, like his dad or his best friend is on life support and he's holding their hand at their bedside 24/7. Otherwise anyone can take 30 seconds to type a text eventually, even if it has to wait a few hours.

[Gaeta]

I have a good friend of mine who told me he use to go in his cave and block his girlfriend sometimes up to 2 weeks. He said he can't explain how it feels, it's a visceral need but since then he's learn how to communicate he feels the need to be alone.

 

I've even stumbled by accident on a support forum for wives/gf of men that cave for long period!! This is a world I did not know existed!

[dobielover]

The dude is stressed. He should at least communicate he's stressed.

 

Didn't he, already? Yes, he did.

[hippychick3]

I have a good friend of mine who told me he use to go in his cave and block his girlfriend sometimes up to 2 weeks. He said he can't explain how it feels, it's a visceral need but since then he's learn how to communicate he feels the need to be alone.

 

I've even stumbled by accident on a support forum for wives/gf of men that cave for long period!! This is a world I did not know existed!

 

My ex was this way. I could not be in this type of relationship ever again. It felt like emotional abuse to me. My current relationship works because caving, when it happens, doesn't last more than a few hours. And I never feel pushed away.

[Redhead14]

I have a good friend of mine who told me he use to go in his cave and block his girlfriend sometimes up to 2 weeks. He said he can't explain how it feels, it's a visceral need but since then he's learn how to communicate he feels the need to be alone.

 

I've even stumbled by accident on a support forum for wives/gf of men that cave for long period!! This is a world I did not know existed!

 

This is about an emotionally unhealthy man. When it goes to the point you're describing above, these men are selfish men who are emotionally unavailable to a woman. And, Gaeta, you are dodging a big bullet here.

 

As a rule, the women who stay with these men, are themselves not emotionally centered and secure in themselves. These are usually co-dependent relationships.

 

And, 9 times out of 10, the men who cave for long periods of time and frequently during the course of a relationship, will disappear completely at some point down the road. The women will tolerate, try to work with, accommodate, etc. for as long as they can until . . . they can't anymore.

 

What happens is, the woman senses the man pulling away, they go into the cave after the man, the man feels harrassed at some point, frustrated and will himself give in and come out for her and she thinks things are "back on track". It will happen over and over again during the relationship.

 

I wish you had said that he told you this in this way in the very beginning of the thread. I recommend going NO Contact with him. If/when he calls or texts, do not respond. Keep moving. I'm sorry but given what I've just read, it's the best course of action for you. They can be very charming and know how to pull at heart strings etc., when they've come back on their own terms. When they do it on their own terms, it's about control as well. There are several elements to these scenarios.

[Gaeta]

I wish you had said that he told you this in this way in the very beginning of the thread.

I don't understand what you are referring to here? What I should have mentioned at first?

[Redhead14]

I don't understand what you are referring to here? What I should have mentioned at first?

 

I misread part of your post . . . sorry. Nevertheless, if Pierre is this type of guy, you're better off.

[Jejangles]

And, 9 times out of 10, the men who cave for long periods of time and frequently during the course of a relationship, will disappear completely at some point down the road. The women will tolerate, try to work with, accommodate, etc. for as long as they can until . . . they can't anymore.

 

What happens is, the woman senses the man pulling away, they go into the cave after the man, the man feels harrassed at some point, frustrated and will himself give in and come out for her and she thinks things are "back on track". It will happen over and over again during the relationship.

 

Totally agree with this. Someone I know has been with a man who "caves" and it has happened repeatedly throughout their 3 year relationship. Just when they are getting emotionally close and in a good place, he goes quiet and non responsive. It's a control thing - he gets uncomfortable when he thinks it's getting too "serious" and so he resets by distancing himself. I personally couldn't be in a relationship like that, and I think the person I know will end it eventually when she gets the courage.

 

Gaeta, I think you have good instincts and you need to trust them. You have reached out to him and he has chosen not to respond. There's nothing more you can do at this point but live your life. If and when he pops up again you can decide what to do at that point, but I'm not sure how you could ever develop a deep and trusting relationship with someone like him. Get out now while the relationship is still new and the heartbreak is not too deep.

[losangelena]

This is about an emotionally unhealthy man. When it goes to the point you're describing above, these men are selfish men who are emotionally unavailable to a woman. And, Gaeta, you are dodging a big bullet here.

 

As a rule, the women who stay with these men, are themselves not emotionally centered and secure in themselves. These are usually co-dependent relationships.

 

And, 9 times out of 10, the men who cave for long periods of time and frequently during the course of a relationship, will disappear completely at some point down the road. The women will tolerate, try to work with, accommodate, etc. for as long as they can until . . . they can't anymore.

 

What happens is, the woman senses the man pulling away, they go into the cave after the man, the man feels harrassed at some point, frustrated and will himself give in and come out for her and she thinks things are "back on track". It will happen over and over again during the relationship.

 

I wish you had said that he told you this in this way in the very beginning of the thread. I recommend going NO Contact with him. If/when he calls or texts, do not respond. Keep moving. I'm sorry but given what I've just read, it's the best course of action for you. They can be very charming and know how to pull at heart strings etc., when they've come back on their own terms. When they do it on their own terms, it's about control as well. There are several elements to these scenarios.

 

I agree with this mostly, expect the part about not responding. If I were in your position, I think I would tell him why I'm not interested anymore.

 

I think every woman has a different tolerance level for caving. I agree that if a guy's gonna be in there a while, he does right by the woman to let her know. Even my notoriously non-communicative ex would say things like, "hey, super stressed with work; can't hang out until Saturday," and would then pop back up on Saturday. Having said that, I also agree on the emotional unavailability of men like that and that just dropping out is a red flag.

 

Anyway, I probably would've held out for this guy a couple of more days, but your frustrations are totally understandable, Gaeta. I'm really sorry. Just thinking about this scenario makes me queasy. I think we've all been there, watching our optimism turn into confusion, turn into hurt, turn into anger.

[Gaeta]

Gaeta, I think you have good instincts and you need to trust them. You have reached out to him and he has chosen not to respond. There's nothing more you can do at this point but live your life. If and when he pops up again you can decide what to do at that point, but I'm not sure how you could ever develop a deep and trusting relationship with someone like him. Get out now while the relationship is still new and the heartbreak is not too deep.

 

Thank you. I admit it will be hard to reject him if he gets back to me in the next couple of days. I still think about him all the time.

[losangelena]

Thank you. I admit it will be hard to reject him if he gets back to me in the next couple of days. I still think about him all the time.

 

I can imagine! Especially after Mr. "can I tuck you in."

[Amelie1980]

Is he really caving? Or is his job loss an excuse or a lie?

 

can you check linkedin or does his company have a website?

 

Any way to find out if he has lost his job.

[katiegrl]

I have a good friend of mine who told me he use to go in his cave and block his girlfriend sometimes up to 2 weeks. He said he can't explain how it feels, it's a visceral need but since then he's learn how to communicate he feels the need to be alone.

 

I've even stumbled by accident on a support forum for wives/gf of men that cave for long period!! This is a world I did not know existed!

 

After only one month of dating?

 

I think even John Gray himself would take issue with that.

 

I don't believe this is caving.

 

This was (is) him fading....and now ghosting.

[jen1447]

Is he really caving? Or is his job loss an excuse or a lie?

 

can you check linkedin or does his company have a website?

 

Any way to find out if he has lost his job.

 

^ That's a deep rabbit hole and probably a bit stalkerish for a one month relationship imo.