Men and caving early on in a relationship?

[Gaeta]

I think every woman has a different tolerance level for caving. I agree that if a guy's gonna be in there a while, he does right by the woman to let her know. Even my notoriously non-communicative ex would say things like, "hey, super stressed with work; can't hang out until Saturday," and would then pop back up on Saturday. Having said that, I also agree on the emotional unavailability of men like that and that just dropping out is a red flag.

 

I think I can give space and time to a man. The hard part is not being told. If we were in an established relationship and I knew he sometimes goes in his cave it would be different. I'd just use this time to re-arrange my kitchen cupboards. It's the not knowing if this one is not simply bailing like others before him.

 

Anyway, I probably would've held out for this guy a couple of more days, but your frustrations are totally understandable, Gaeta. I'm really sorry. Just thinking about this scenario makes me queasy. I think we've all been there, watching our optimism turn into confusion, turn into hurt, turn into anger.

 

I'm bumped, frustrated, disappointed, losing my faith in finding someone ....and deep down I am still waiting for him.

[Gaeta]

Is he really caving? Or is his job loss an excuse or a lie?

 

can you check linkedin or does his company have a website?

 

Any way to find out if he has lost his job.

 

haha, I would never do anything like that. Thanks for the laugh though

[Redhead14]

Thank you. I admit it will be hard to reject him if he gets back to me in the next couple of days. I still think about him all the time.

 

If he's this type of man, he knows how it affects you and he will use that to his advantage. He doesn't really want you to go away, he just wants you on his terms. He will say, hey, listen I know this was hard for you, and I appreciate your patience, etc. I have missed you terribly but . . . blah, blah, blah. And, most of the time they do not fill you in on what's been going on with them if it's been an emotional trauma that sent them to their cave. They don't share at all. They just want to come back no questions asked. If they do share details, it's more about drawing you back in. They are usually actually emotional when they come back. Which the woman will find strange yet it plays on their sympathies.

 

(And, this is different from the pull away that a man sometimes does during what's called the Uncertainty Stage of a relationship. That is relatively normal. Women do this too sometimes.)

 

They know how it affects the woman, they understand, but they don't care, they can't empathize, but they expect you to empathize with them.

 

Some of these men are capable of overcoming that need to cave but, the woman has to know what to look for, etc. in order to be able to determine if there is hope for that guy . . .

 

Most men do this a little bit, it's just kinda a natural response to stress, but if they are emotionally healthy overall, it doesn't last long and it's simply about getting their mind around an emotional issue. They operate from a logical stance and if emotions are overwhelming, it clouds things for them.

 

It's hard to know when you've started a relationship with one of these guys. It'll happen once and you'll get through it and be wary and on watch for the next event and tell yourself, if this happens again, I won't tolerate it, yet when it does happen, you say, well, one more time, I'll give it one more time, maybe it'll be the last time . . . but it isn't.

[Redhead14]

I think I can give space and time to a man. The hard part is not being told. If we were in an established relationship and I knew he sometimes goes in his cave it would be different. I'd just use this time to re-arrange my kitchen cupboards. It's the not knowing if this one is not simply bailing like others before him.

 

A cave of a couple of days, isn't a big deal. But when they do it for weeks, it's a killer for the woman. Don't kid yourself. The fact is they can do this because they aren't emotionally connected to you. That's what hurts. It's a lonely existence for the woman.

[katiegrl]

Didn't he, already? Yes, he did.

 

He told her he was stressed ..... but that he would contact her once he got word from his boss whether he got the contract or not.

 

Not only did he not contact and update her (like he said he would), he ignored her two attempts to contact him.

 

If this is acceptable behavior to you, which apparently it is, then so be it.

Edited January 15, 2016 by katiegrl

[Amelie1980]

haha, I would never do anything like that. Thanks for the laugh though

 

If it will stop you questioning the matter though.....and thinking he is caving?

 

if you see he hasnt lost his job, you will know.

 

it's for piece of mind rather than debating the what ifs and maybes here.

 

it will stop in it in its tracks if you find out he hasnt lost his job which I suspect he may not have.

[Amelie1980]

^ That's a deep rabbit hole and probably a bit stalkerish for a one month relationship imo.

 

So this thread of now how many pages, debating if he is caving or not and discussing his motives isnt a bit creepy for a one month relationship?

 

And this isnt the first thread about this man......!

[losangelena]

If it will stop you questioning the matter though.....and thinking he is caving?

 

if you see he hasnt lost his job, you will know.

 

it's for piece of mind rather than debating the what ifs and maybes here.

 

it will stop in it in its tracks if you find out he hasnt lost his job which I suspect he may not have.

 

At the end of day, I don't really think it matters what happened. He just dropped off. They why is almost irrelevant at this point.

[Amelie1980]

At the end of day, I don't really think it matters what happened. He just dropped off. They why is almost irrelevant at this point.

 

I just think he lost interest.

 

One month, 30 days, out of how many years of being alive? Not a long time to be seeing each other.

[katiegrl]

At the end of day, I don't really think it matters what happened. He just dropped off. They why is almost irrelevant at this point.

 

This goes beyond caving at this point.

 

This is flat out ghosting.... disrespectful, inconsiderate, selfish and rude.

 

I can't believe certain posters (well poster) are defending him.

 

Boggles the mind.

[Amelie1980]

This goes beyond caving at this point.

 

This is flat out ghosting.... disrespectful, inconsiderate, selfish and rude.

 

I can't believe certain posters (well poster) is defending him.

 

Boggles the mind.

 

It is inconsiderate and rude. it has only been a month though, and he did kind of give an explanation. OP immediately knew this was a brush off. So the intent has been communicated.

[katiegrl]

It is inconsiderate and rude. it has only been a month though, and he did kind of give an explanation. OP immediately knew this was a brush off. So the intent has been communicated.

 

Not to belabor the point, but during their last communication, he told her he would contact her after he spoke with his boss re whether or not he got the contract.

 

He has not and has ignored her attempts to talk to him.

 

He has not told her he doesn't wish to move forward with their "relationship," and has not even told her he needs some space to work out whatever "crisis" he has going on.

 

He has completed ghosted her... and I don't know in what world this would be considered even remotely acceptable.... but it wouldn't be in mine....and clearly it's not in Gaeta's world either.

 

All this combined with he completely blew her off last weekend, has always been elusive about responding to text messages.... among other things that have taken place in their short one month relationship.... I am calling BS on this so-called "crisis" of his.... and believe he lost interest and is now ghosting.

[Amelie1980]

Not to belabor the point, but during their last communication, he told her he would contact her after he spoke with his boss re whether or not he got the contract.

 

He has not and has ignored her attempts to talk to him.

 

He has not told her he doesn't wish to move forward with their "relationship," and has not even told her he needs some space to work out whatever "crisis" he has going on.

 

He has completed ghosted her... and I don't know in what world this would be considered even remotely acceptable.... but it wouldn't be in mine....and clearly it's not in Gaeta's world either.

 

All this combined with he completely blew her off last weekend, has always been elusive about responding to text messages.... among other things that have taken place in their short one month relationship.... I am calling BS on this so-called "crisis" of his.... and believe he lost interest and is now ghosting.

 

So do I.

 

It is ****ing rude.

 

sadly though, this behavior no longer surprises me.

 

How was he elusive about texts... I didnt know that. this guy was painted as a god in another thread with regards to contact and follow through.

[Gaeta]

All this combined with he completely blew her off last weekend, has always been elusive about responding to text messages.... among other things that have taken place in their short one month relationship.... I am calling BS on this so-called "crisis" of his.... and believe he lost interest and is now ghosting.

 

I want to jump in about the texting. In 1 month dating it happened 3 times I text him and he did not get back to me on text. It frustrates me BUT the 1 month we dated he called me each and every night without skipping a day. So although not getting a text back those couple of times made me clench my teeth I don't think it is significant in our story together.

[Amelie1980]

You don't have a significant story together. At all.

 

There are probably more posts on this board about him than texts exchanged between you which is a bit creepy. If he knew about this thread or saw it?

 

He just lost interest. It happens.

[katiegrl]

I want to jump in about the texting. In 1 month dating it happened 3 times I text him and he did not get back to me on text. It frustrates me BUT the 1 month we dated he called me each and every night without skipping a day. So although not getting a text back those couple of times made me clench my teeth I don't think it is significant in our story together.

 

Which actually makes it worse IMO.

 

I mean, given how close you have obviously become, talking every night, etc., how much you grew to trust him your connection...... the least he could do is give you the courtesy of advising you he needs some time alone to figure stuff out...instead of ignoring your text and phone call.... and ghosting.

 

This is what ghosters do, is it not? Everything is peaches and cream...until they get bored, meet someone else, lose interest without warning and for no reason, and poof they're gone...often with some elaborate excuse that makes no sense.

 

Remember the guy who told you he suffered from deep depression and had checked himself into a clinic...which turned out to be complete BS....the truth being he was married?

Edited January 15, 2016 by katiegrl

[Gaeta]

Here is the chronological order of events:

 

We spent Thursday evening and night together. He was his usual sweet self. He saw my Twilight DVD collection and he said he had never seen that series. I joked he didn't want to watch that and he said Yes he did and next time we're gonna watch it together. (indicates things were normal)

 

Friday night he called me and he kept me 3 hours on the phone! He ended it with "gosh we have so much to talk about all the time !" (during that conversation he spoke about his worry cause he had not heard from his employer yet) (I feel nothing wrong still, things are normal)

 

 

Saturday morning he called and this is when I felt he was blowing me off for the entire weekend and ***things went downhill from there***. During the call he mentioned some plans with friends for Saturday night and Sunday being a bad day as he needed to get up at 4h45 Monday. (Again he mentioned he was hoping to get that call soon and he was seriously worrying)

 

Sunday morning he called again. He started with hello pretty I really wanted to hear your voice. We spoke a bit and he told me he did not go to his friends as planned the previous night. He was feeling down and worried.

 

Monday I text him but he replied at midnight so I did not answer.

 

Tuesday morning early like 6h45 am he text me he is really not doing well. I asked what he meant and he called right away. He explained the work situation. Asked my advice. I told him he should call his boss. He said ok he would. I said good luck with that and let me know, he said ok I'll let you know. ***I have not heard from him since. ***

[Redhead14]

Which actually makes it worse IMO.

 

I mean, given how close you have obviously become, talking every night, etc., how much you grew to trust him your connection...... the least he could do is give you the courtesy of advising you he needs to time alone to figure stuff out...instead of ignoring you now and ghosting.

 

Let's not forget the fact that he told her two weeks into their "relationship" that if he seems distant . . . it's because he was stressed about some things.

 

That is the reason caving came into question in my mind even. To me he was actually giving her a heads up that this is how he deals with stress. On top of that he did go dark or blew her off for a weekend, which follows suit somewhat.

 

I did start thinking it was kinda of set up too of some kind. Telling her he might become distant as a way to start fading out is possible as well. There are all kinds of maybes.

 

Nevertheless, we really don't know whether he's ghosting her entirely yet or not. If he is indeed, caving, he will resurface at some point. It could be a week, it could be two weeks. But he will resurface. It's a matter of time but she shouldn't wait no matter what's going on at this point.

 

The only value really in going down all these possible scenarios, is to give her a sense of how to proceed if/when he does call or text her because she isn't going to be able to say "hold on, I've gotta go check with the peeps on LS before I decide how to handle this"

[katiegrl]

Let's not forget the fact that he told her two weeks into their "relationship" that if he seems distant . . . it's because he was stressed about some things.

 

That is the reason caving came into question in my mind even. To me he was actually giving her a heads up that this is how he deals with stress. On top of that he did go dark or blew her off for a weekend, which follows suit somewhat.

 

I did start thinking it was kinda of set up too of some kind. Telling her he might become distant as a way to start fading out is possible as well. There are all kinds of maybes.

 

Nevertheless, we really don't know whether he's ghosting her entirely yet or not. If he is indeed, caving, he will resurface at some point. It could be a week, it could be two weeks. But he will resurface. It's a matter of time but she shouldn't wait no matter what's going on at this point.

 

The only value really in going down all these possible scenarios, is to give her a sense of how to proceed if/when he does call or text her because she isn't going to be able to say "hold on, I've gotta go check with the peeps on LS before I decide how to handle this"

 

Bolded.... I questioned earlier in the thread what you meant by "set up".... thank you for clarifying..... I understand and actually agree.

 

That he knew even then (or was thinking about ) disappearing (or ending it).... and was warning her in advance.

[Amelie1980]

Here is the chronological order of events:

 

We spent Thursday evening and night together. He was his usual sweet self. He saw my Twilight DVD collection and he said he had never seen that series. I joked he didn't want to watch that and he said Yes he did and next time we're gonna watch it together. (indicates things were normal)

 

Friday night he called me and he kept me 3 hours on the phone! He ended it with "gosh we have so much to talk about all the time !" (during that conversation he spoke about his worry cause he had not heard from his employer yet) (I feel nothing wrong still, things are normal)

 

 

Saturday morning he called and this is when I felt he was blowing me off for the entire weekend and ***things went downhill from there***. During the call he mentioned some plans with friends for Saturday night and Sunday being a bad day as he needed to get up at 4h45 Monday. (Again he mentioned he was hoping to get that call soon and he was seriously worrying)

 

Sunday morning he called again. He started with hello pretty I really wanted to hear your voice. We spoke a bit and he told me he did not go to his friends as planned the previous night. He was feeling down and worried.

 

Monday I text him but he replied at midnight so I did not answer.

 

Tuesday morning early like 6h45 am he text me he is really not doing well. I asked what he meant and he called right away. He explained the work situation. Asked my advice. I told him he should call his boss. He said ok he would. I said good luck with that and let me know, he said ok I'll let you know. ***I have not heard from him since. ***

 

 

A while I ago I had a guy who was always in touch all the time, asked me how much vacation time I had at work left, asked me to spend some with him, kept speaking of wanting to learn all the things about me that I liked for the future, etc, etc, etc.

 

I cant even remember what days they were now. But we saw each other on one day. Communication for the next few days. Then a couple of days quiet. My texts do not go through. I get a text finally saying his cell phone broke and he now has a new one, apologies for being out of touch for a couple of days. Then he blows me off for something we were meant to do. Bull **** about some work problem or stress then he ghosts and when pushed tells me he has problems at work and doesnt want to date.

 

Sound familiar to yours? Hot to sudden cold and ghost?

 

I look at facebook (we werent friends) a couple of weeks later and he has a new gf.

 

The problem is, they can tell you what they like when they meet you. In one month, you do not know them. You are seeing what they want you to see as the mask hasnt slipped yet.

 

You dont actually know if he was dating other people. But to me it looks like yours was or he just decided he didnt like you as much as he thought.

[katiegrl]

What I have read about caving (specifically from the John Gray Mars and Venus series)...is that caving occurs in established long term relationships, when a man reaches his threshold of intimacy and needs time alone (2-3 days TOPS) to re-group and "get back to himself").

 

As men are naturally autonomous and when they reach their threshold of intimacy.... they start feeling off balance.

 

He specifically states that caving does NOT occur in dating relationships....that would be considered the "uncertainty" stage, where after a short time dating (one to three months) he becomes ambivalent about his feelings and the relationship and pulls back.

 

This to me sounds more like what it is.

[Gaeta]

I did start thinking it was kinda of set up too of some kind. Telling her he might become distant as a way to start fading out is possible as well. There are all kinds of maybes.

 

No no no no, he did not say he might become distant !!

 

About 2 weeks into dating I text him and I got a call later. He then said 'I am sorry if I seem distant sometimes I have things I worry about'.

 

That's not like you put it.

[Gaeta]

What I have read about caving (specifically from the John Gray Mars and Venus series)...is that caving occurs in established long term relationships, when a man reaches his threshold of intimacy and needs time alone (2-3 days TOPS) to re-group and "get back to himself").

 

As men are naturally autonomous and when they reach their threshold of intimacy.... they start feeling off balance.

 

He specifically states that caving does NOT occur in dating relationships....that would be considered the "uncertainty" stage, where after a short time dating (one to three months) he becomes ambivalent about his feelings and the relationship and pulls back.

 

This to me sounds more like what it is.

 

I read about caving or withdrawing at different phases starting at 1 month, then 3 months, then a year and so on. There are other writers about the 'cave' theory.

[Gaeta]

A while I ago I had a guy who was always in touch all the time, asked me how much vacation time I had at work left, asked me to spend some with him, kept speaking of wanting to learn all the things about me that I liked for the future, etc, etc, etc.

 

I cant even remember what days they were now. But we saw each other on one day. Communication for the next few days. Then a couple of days quiet. My texts do not go through. I get a text finally saying his cell phone broke and he now has a new one, apologies for being out of touch for a couple of days. Then he blows me off for something we were meant to do. Bull **** about some work problem or stress then he ghosts and when pushed tells me he has problems at work and doesnt want to date.

 

Sound familiar to yours? Hot to sudden cold and ghost?

 

I look at facebook (we werent friends) a couple of weeks later and he has a new gf.

 

The problem is, they can tell you what they like when they meet you. In one month, you do not know them. You are seeing what they want you to see as the mask hasnt slipped yet.

 

You dont actually know if he was dating other people. But to me it looks like yours was or he just decided he didnt like you as much as he thought.

 

I don't know how you came up with that reply quoting my post #192

 

I have been ghosted many times. I know exactly how that goes. This one feels different.

[Amelie1980]

I read about caving or withdrawing at different phases starting at 1 month, then 3 months, then a year and so on. There are other writers about the 'cave' theory.

 

Naw. Most guys at 1-3 months are up your a$$ trying to impress you and not wanting to lose you. If they really like you that is.