Ladies: Do you choose men naturally or base it on a list?

[67Chevelle]

I've wanted to bring up this topic a few weeks ago but kept forgetting about it, so here it is.

 

It well known that theres a lot of women that have a "list" or guideline that they follow when it comes to who they date or what type of guy they date. How many of you have a list that you follow and how many of you are open to being more random and letting a guy prove his worth before you judge him?

[WaitingForBardot]

I am not a woman and I don't use a list, so I am eminently qualified to answer your question... ..lol..

 

Yes, many woman have a list and yes they chuck it as soon as they meet a guy they like and at least try to give him a chance. Except for a few dealbreakers anyway.

[mrldii]

Personally, I don't know too many women who have "a list", per se...like a grocery list of the ingredients necessary to Make a Perfect Man.

 

 

But, all of the smart women I know have "a list" of non-negotiables - traits, characteristics, and attributes that - if present/revealed - will make a man instantly undateable to them.

 

 

I believe that's the purpose of living one's life and learning from one's past experiences,

 

no?

[67Chevelle]

Personally, I don't know too many women who have "a list", per se...like a grocery list of the ingredients necessary to Make a Perfect Man.

 

 

But, all of the smart women I know have "a list" of non-negotiables - traits, characteristics, and attributes that - if present/revealed - will make a man instantly undateable to them.

 

 

I believe that's the purpose of living one's life and learning from one's past experiences,

 

no?

 

 

I can understand having dealbreakers to a certain extent....but I have heard from many women over my life time that they want a man that is "X Y and Z". Theres millions of women that wont even look at a guy if he didnt go to college. That right there guarantees nothing, and it sure doesnt mean a guy with a degree can offer a better relationship. I'm not really talking about looks, more so certain traits and such that many women seem to "think" makes one man a better catch than the other.

 

I seem to see and hear about a lot of missed oppurtunities where women wont even give a guy a chance if he doesnt meet what she is looking for. Theres been many studies that prove what we think we want and what we are actually attracted to is typically two different things.

 

How many times have you heard a woman use the phrase "I wasnt even attracted/interested in him at first, but once I got to know him"....

 

I truly believe that many women are their own worst enemy when it comes to dating and who they "choose".

Edited January 16, 2016 by 67Chevelle

[carhill]

My exW did two M's, she said, on the 'smell' test, meaning primarily attraction, so tried the list with me. I don't have the old e-mails anymore but I think at one point she even shared it with me. Heh. Interesting how that worked out. I guess it worked out OK for her. Taught me a few things.

[67Chevelle]

I know two guys personally that physically saw a written list on paper that their wives made when they were first dating.

[carhill]

When we started dating, e-mail for mere mortals had been invented so I remember it from that. Back when Yahoo was young She talked a lot about lists and how that was important and also about personality styles. My take was she picked those things up in therapy after her last D. No indictment of her or lists, just sharing how it went down.

[BettyDraper]

Personally, I don't know too many women who have "a list", per se...like a grocery list of the ingredients necessary to Make a Perfect Man.

 

 

But, all of the smart women I know have "a list" of non-negotiables - traits, characteristics, and attributes that - if present/revealed - will make a man instantly undateable to them.

 

 

I believe that's the purpose of living one's life and learning from one's past experiences,

 

no?

 

This. I had no requirements as a teen and as a younger woman in my twenties. My list of non negotiables grew as I experienced more.

 

Most women have certain requirements. My requirements when I met my husband were as follows:

• Must not be a mama's boy or live with parents.
  
• Must have education past high school.
  
• Must have a career and not just a job.
  
• Must have a car.
  
• Must not be shorter than 5'9.
  
• Must not have children.
  
• Must be interested in a serious relationship.
  
• Must have good manners.
  
• Must not be selfish and miserly.
  
• Must be a good lover.
  

[mrldii]

@ OP: I can understand the phenomenon...I've just never personally experienced it.

 

The men I've been involved with, have very little in common, other than a sense of humanity and a strong work ethic; one was a CPA who owned his own business (whom I married and with whom I had my one-and-only child), the next was a very good looking childless, never-been-married *player* who was a warehouse manager, the next (whom I married) was a divorced, shared-custody-of-two father who also was a warehouse manager, and the last was a single, childless, never-been-married engineer for a major company.

 

The only time I ever *picked a bad one* was when I found myself single, again, at 50 and tried OLD for the first time. *Friends* filled me with the "Well, now...yanno, at 50 you probably shouldn't be so picky...and be grateful for any attention and learn to overlook what used to be red flags."

 

So, I kept that in the back of my mind. Met a guy who was nice enough, but not really my physical type. (Tall, overweight, some rotted teeth, motor-cycle bad*ass* wannabe, who owned his own business.) Over the few months I dated this "divorced, business owner", he gradually revealed that he wasn't really divorced, but separated...well, not really separated, like in the legal-sense, but more like they've gone their separate ways...well, not really gone-their-separate-ways, but more like they still live with each other, but sleep in separate rooms. And, being "self-employed" meant scrounging around for odds-and-ends-jobs, which he gave all the money to his "separately-living-but-not-really" *wife*.

 

And, he "drinks, but not really." 'Til I found out he'd served time in prison for his previous 3 DUIs...the last of which *caused* him to have to drive around on a suspended license, 'cuz he'd never taken care of it.

 

 

Yeah...that was waaaaaay too many deviations even though "at [my] age, should probably be less picky."

 

[katiegrl]

I can understand having dealbreakers to a certain extent....but I have heard from many women over my life time that they want a man that is "X Y and Z". Theres millions of women that wont even look at a guy if he didnt go to college. That right there guarantees nothing, and it sure doesnt mean a guy with a degree can offer a better relationship.

 

This doesn't make sense as how would she know he didn't go to college unless she actually talked to him? And last I checked, having a conversation entailed actually looking at a person....so there goes that theory.

 

That said, I take issue with the bolded....because GUARANTEE if she met such a man...and felt a high level of attraction for and chemistry with him....and upon speaking with him, discovered he did not go to college....trust me SHE WOULD NOT CARE.

 

 

Women say a lot of things about qualities they like, don't like, etc.... however that all changes when encountering a guy we feel such level of chemistry with....that all that flies out the proverbial window.

 

So take it all with a grain of salt.

 

Yeah sure some women have lists, but again they don't mean jack shyt if she's really into him and attracted to him.

 

Of course things involving his character are a different story. If a man lied for example....no matter how attracted I was, THAT would be a dealbreaker for me.

 

I don't tolerate lying under any circumstances. And he must have integrity...another big one.

 

But stuff like a college degree or other superficial qualities as part of some arbitrary list....again take it all with a grain of salt.

Edited January 16, 2016 by katiegrl

[Popsicle]

Natural feelings.

[67Chevelle]

That said, I take issue with the bolded....because GUARANTEE if she met such a man...and felt a high level of attraction for and chemistry with him....and upon speaking with him, discovered he did not go to college....trust me SHE WOULD NOT CARE.

 

 

This. I had no requirements as a teen and as a younger woman in my twenties. My list of non negotiables grew as I experienced more.

 

Most women have certain requirements. My requirements when I met my husband were as follows:

• Must not be a mama's boy or live with parents.
  
• Must have education past high school.
  
• Must have a career and not just a job.
  
• Must have a car.
  
• Must not be shorter than 5'9.
  
• Must not have children.
  
• Must be interested in a serious relationship.
  
• Must have good manners.
  
• Must not be selfish and miserly.
  
• Must be a good lover.
  

 

 

Well, I can pretty much guarantee that BettyDraper isnt the only woman that disagrees with you on the college part.

 

Katiegrl, I totally agree that there are situations where a woman meets a guy and her list gets tossed out the window. It happens all the time when women are "forced" to get to know a guy at work or volunteering or other social situations. Because the snap judgments that many women make about men in the first few minutes are proved wrong once a guy is given a chance to prove theres more to him than than she thinks. My complaint is about the women that resist this, and still hang on to their list thinking it will steer them right. I think theres a lot of women that miss out on opportunities because of their list.

Edited January 16, 2016 by 67Chevelle

[anduina]

Chemistry!

[preraph]

I'm old and what I know is you can't make a list about someone you don't even know yet! If you do the only things on it are surface things. And even those can be faked. Most people driving fancy cars are up to their eyeballs in debt and not really monied at all, for example. They can even lie about having a job or tell you they have a better one than they've got. They can be unemployed and be bouncing around temporarily off with various women and make you believe they are a successful traveling salesman. They may not tell you they live with their mother until you've been dating for awhile.

 

I always went into it open-minded, BUT I had particular tastes and confined 90% of my interest to the music culture, which you can pretty much read most people and single those out because they look and dress differently. I certainly do have some qualifications, but since I was not "looking for a husband to have kids with," mine were not as stringent. I had one bf who was mostly unemployed but played in bands and was nearly always broke and flitted around living with different people, including his mother at times, I'm sure, though he never said so.

 

My measure was ambition and creativity. It wasn't pre-thought out. It's just what ended up making me happiest. One is a VP of a huge entertainment conglomerate today that I worked side by side with for a decade. The unemployed musician has been in LA working as a paralegal for 20+ years and doing music on the side.

 

One artist I fell for was an explorer at heart and ended up all over the world doing everything from making me feel like a Bond girl to being a dean at a college.

 

So yeah, my list is creativity and ambition, but if I met someone else I liked, I might add something to it.

 

And the thing that ended up being my biggest disqualifier was if a guy wasn't focused enough on me to keep him from continuing to meet other women. I just don't understand people who can't seem to settle on what they want and take the time to explore that without distractions for as long as it takes, because otherwise you haven't given that relationship a chance since trust was never there.

Edited January 16, 2016 by preraph

[RecentChange]

I've never had a list or any set of hard guidelines.

 

I suppose it's like finding a friend, there are qualities that make them more or less appealing, I don't have a hard set of requirements.

 

That said yes I like to see a certain level of success, of drive, attraction etc.

 

I am not a "loser" and wouldn't be particularly interested in one

 

Sure I have preferences when it comes to things like height, education level etc, but I have flex on those things and didn't regret it. Intelligence trumps lack of education. Personality / looks trump height etc.

 

I have never approached dating so systematically that a list would ever play a role.

[katiegrl]

Well, I can pretty much guarantee that BettyDraper isnt the only woman that disagrees with you on the college part.

 

Katiegrl, I totally agree that there are situations where a woman meets a guy and her list gets tossed out the window. It happens all the time when women are "forced" to get to know a guy at work or volunteering or other social situations. Because the snap judgments that many women make about men in the first few minutes are proved wrong once a guy is given a chance to prove theres more to him than than she thinks. My complaint is about the women that resist this, and still hang on to their list thinking it will steer them right. I think theres a lot of women that miss out on opportunities because of their list.

 

Okay, fair enough.

 

Personally I cannot relate as such lists suggest a very RIGID way of thinking, and I am about as far from rigid as one can be.

 

To each his own though.

[Maggie4]

No I don't make a list. I have my preferences and deal breakers, sure. But no list. You would make a written list like for groceries, only if you think you might forget. I don't need to remind myself of what I find attractive. So yeah, it's natural.

[BettyDraper]

This doesn't make sense as how would she know he didn't go to college unless she actually talked to him? And last I checked, having a conversation entailed actually looking at a person....so there goes that theory.

 

That said, I take issue with the bolded....because GUARANTEE if she met such a man...and felt a high level of attraction for and chemistry with him....and upon speaking with him, discovered he did not go to college....trust me SHE WOULD NOT CARE.

 

 

Women say a lot of things about qualities they like, don't like, etc.... however that all changes when encountering a guy we feel such level of chemistry with....that all that flies out the proverbial window.

 

So take it all with a grain of salt.

 

Yeah sure some women have lists, but again they don't mean jack shyt if she's really into him and attracted to him.

 

Of course things involving his character are a different story. If a man lied for example....no matter how attracted I was, THAT would be a dealbreaker for me.

 

I don't tolerate lying under any circumstances. And he must have integrity...another big one.

 

But stuff like a college degree or other superficial qualities as part of some arbitrary list....again take it all with a grain of salt.

 

A college education makes it more likely that someone will have a stable career.

There's nothing superficial about looking at practical aspects of building a life with someone. Chemistry and attraction do not pay bills.

In fact, it is far more superficial to pick a partner based on chemistry and physical appearance.

Looks fade and change. Chemistry becomes harder to maintain as a couple leaves the honeymoon stage and real life takes over.

A woman who is educated and financially independent will surely want a man who is also established.

Edited January 17, 2016 by BettyDraper

[deckard11]

From my experience (or lack of) women choose men based on looks and body.

[BettyDraper]

I've never had a list or any set of hard guidelines.

 

I suppose it's like finding a friend, there are qualities that make them more or less appealing, I don't have a hard set of requirements.

 

That said yes I like to see a certain level of success, of drive, attraction etc.

 

I am not a "loser" and wouldn't be particularly interested in one

 

Sure I have preferences when it comes to things like height, education level etc, but I have flex on those things and didn't regret it. Intelligence trumps lack of education. Personality / looks trump height etc.

 

I have never approached dating so systematically that a list would ever play a role.

 

I never cared about height until I noticed that the Napolean complex was actually real. Any man I dated or met who was short was always obnoxious, confrontational and needlessly aggressive. I also like the feeling of being protected and safe in a man's arms. I don't get that feeling from a short man. Glad my husband is 6'2!

[Snakechammah]

My dealbreaker list:

 

 

• No serial killers
  
• No animal abusers
  
• No children/old people abusers
  
• No undertaker/butcher/graveyard-digger/mortician
  
• No substance abusers
  
• No mental illness
  

 

 

Anything else is negotiable!

[dobielover]

I go with a gut attraction first, and then start comparing them to a "must haves" mental list of character traits.

[67Chevelle]

A college education makes it more likely that someone will have a stable career.

There's nothing superficial about looking at practical aspects of building a life with someone. Chemistry and attraction do not pay bills.

In fact, it is far more superficial to pick a partner based on chemistry and physical appearance.

Looks fade and change. Chemistry becomes harder to maintain as a couple leaves the honeymoon stage and real life takes over.

A woman who is educated and financially independent will surely want a man who is also established.

 

A persons level of education has absolutely nothing to do with real chemistry.

 

In the blue collar workforce(which I am part of) there are millions of financially stable men with no college degree. I believe a degree does not hold as much weight as it did years ago, especially in todays unstable job market. You need to be more diversified because people jump from job to job more than ever nowadays.

 

 

I never cared about height until I noticed that the Napolean complex was actually real. Any man I dated or met who was short was always obnoxious, confrontational and needlessly aggressive. I also like the feeling of being protected and safe in a man's arms. I don't get that feeling from a short man. Glad my husband is 6'2!

 

I understand WHY women feel that way, but its a false sense of security...height has very little to do with being able to protect yourself or a family member. But as usual, its one of those things that women will just always beleive, and you cant use logic to change their mind. I'd love to do a test and see how many women would be attracted to a professionally trained fighter that is under 5'10 if so many women seem to state that "physical protection" is so important to them. I guarantee most women would still be biased towards the short guy.

 

In my experience, women tend to be attracted to a guy based on assumptions and their perception of the guy rather than actual reality of who he is and what he can do. What would happen if BettyDrapers husband got his ass kicked by a shorter guy? Based or her premise of protection, wouldnt she have to leave him and find a better protector? How can you say I'm with this guy because of XYZ but then when he cant provide XYZ you remain with him anyways??

Edited January 17, 2016 by 67Chevelle

[BettyDraper]

A persons level of education has absolutely nothing to do with real chemistry.

 

In the blue collar workforce(which I am part of) there are millions of financially stable men with no college degree. I believe a degree does not hold as much weight as it did years ago, especially in todays unstable job market. You need to be more diversified because people jump from job to job more than ever nowadays.

 

 

 

 

I understand WHY women feel that way, but its a false sense of security...height has very little to do with being able to protect yourself or a family member. But as usual, its one of those things that women will just always beleive, and you cant use logic to change their mind. I'd love to do a test and see how many women would be attracted to a professionally trained fighter that is under 5'10 if so many women seem to state that "physical protection" is so important to them. I guarantee most women would still be biased towards the short guy.

 

In my experience, women tend to be attracted to a guy based on assumptions and their perception of the guy rather than actual reality of who he is and what he can do. What would happen if BettyDrapers husband got his ass kicked by a shorter guy? Based or her premise of protection, wouldnt she have to leave him and find a better protector? How can you say I'm with this guy because of XYZ but then when he cant provide XYZ you remain with him anyways??

 

This is why I said college "education" and not "degree". My father was a welder. He still needed to attend college for his certification. I'm well aware that tradesmen can still do well in life. Some kind of education beyond high school is far better than none at all.

 

I never said that education guarantees chemistry either. I said that I view some attributes as are far more important than chemistry and attraction.

 

I also said that taller men make me feel more protected....not that my perception is always accurate. A tall man would be perceived as more masculine and less likely to be attacked than a short man. Whenever I dated shorter men, taller men had no qualms about trying to pick me up right in front of them. We live in a culture that empowers tall men. This is probably why a lot of short men are very insecure and try to overcompensate by being obnoxious.

[67Chevelle]

probably why a lot of short men are very insecure and try to overcompensate by being obnoxious.

 

I understand what you mean with the obnoxious type short guys.

 

But aside from that, I will always believe that women plant the seed of insecurity(when it comes to height) in many men. Just like the media and marketing plants the seed of insecurity in many women about their looks.

 

Men dont manifest insecurity about their height on their own. Women give the guys a reason to feel insecure. And it becomes worse when woman after woman continues to fuel it.