todreaminblue Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 we would not know good if we did not know bad let alone appreciate what good feels like....the same with everything...to each there is an equal counterpart .....a balance.....with love.....when you know what it feels like to have no love ....you then can feel and appreciate the fragility and importance of love.... ....when you have had no friends....you can appreciate what it is to have friends..when your family goes away from you...you can appreciate what it is to have them around and how important they are to you.......i feel its about appreciation....appreciation for all that god has given us that is good and right to feel....to have...to hold...for when its gone.....and you have nothing....then you know....why love and loving what god does give and then thanking him as often as you can is so important.. but maybe i am not seeing the big picture.....my heart is broken at the moment....however i felt compelled to write what i did and I hope it helps..deb Link to post Share on other sites
Author truthtripper Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 I hate to throw stones in a glass house, but you started it...... I never previously mentioned anything about "figures", you did. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 but maybe i am not seeing the big picture.....my heart is broken at the moment....however i felt compelled to write what i did and I hope it helps..deb Prob should be another thread but what's up Deb? Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Oh blimey. look, I'm not quarrelling with you. I'm just discussing. You bring up certain statements as facts or truth (seemingly) and you can't be surprised if you're asked to back them up. It's quite natural to rely on emotive statements, but one has to be careful about making statements as if they were true, when in fact, it's just something one believes. And we're still moving away from the original topic of discussion. Which I actually think I answered quite early on in the thread. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Prob should be another thread but what's up Deb? it sort of does relate to this thread......my son took my grandkids away from me again....and i wont be allowed to see them...i dont conform to his rules so he takes them away...and i dont think i could be hurting more than i am right now.....i just have to trust god that he will help me through this and brign them back to me........and i dont blame god for what has happened...i thanked god ....because i got to say goodbye this time...so it really does relate to my answer...thanks jen for caring to ask........deb.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author truthtripper Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Oh blimey. look, I'm not quarrelling with you. I'm just discussing. You bring up certain statements as facts or truth (seemingly) and you can't be surprised if you're asked to back them up. It's quite natural to rely on emotive statements, but one has to be careful about making statements as if they were true, when in fact, it's just something one believes. And we're still moving away from the original topic of discussion. Which I actually think I answered quite early on in the thread. I haven't actually made any statements that require "figures". Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 it sort of does relate to this thread......my son took my grandkids away from me again....and i wont be allowed to see them...i dont conform to his rules so he takes them away...and i dont think i could be hurting more than i am right now.....i just have to trust god that he will help me through this and brign them back to me........and i dont blame god for what has happened...i thanked god ....because i got to say goodbye this time...so it really does relate to my answer...thanks jen for caring to ask........deb.. Sending love your way Deb. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I haven't actually made any statements that require "figures". From "Why did God create human Consciousness?" to "...... That's why there is a high suicidal rate among those who have been abused in childhood." Is about as diverse from topic as you could get.... And that last statement - requires validation. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Sending love your way Deb. Yep, go ahead and triple that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author truthtripper Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 From "Why did God create human Consciousness?" to "...... That's why there is a high suicidal rate among those who have been abused in childhood." Is about as diverse from topic as you could get.... And that last statement - requires validation. This is an example of what my OP is about-the negative consequences of human consciousness. If there was no human consciousness, there would be no child abuse. It doesn't occur in other animal species. The correlation between child abuse, mental illness and suicide is common knowledge. Do you also need validation for the sky being blue? Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 This is an example of what my OP is about-the negative consequences of human consciousness. If there was no human consciousness, there would be no child abuse. It doesn't occur in other animal species. The correlation between child abuse, mental illness and suicide is common knowledge. Do you also need validation for the sky being blue?The sky isn't blue. We just think it is. That can be said for practically everything. Our perception affects our judgement. We see things the way we see things because that's the way we see things. It pays to consider that the way we see things is not the way everyone sees things. My neighbour doesn't see a 'blue sky'. Is there any literature anywhere about how well survivors of abuse have triumphed and overcome their past to lead successful and inspirational lives? I think there's plenty, if you look.... Link to post Share on other sites
Doop Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 The God hypothesis is very childish and stupid if you think about. I'm going to borrow from Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris with my post. So you've got this omnipotent, omniscient God character. He is the alpha and the omega. His wisdom and abilities are far beyond what any man could ever strive for or comprehend. He knows what is going to happen before it happens. Therefore he has infinite choices of universes and scenarios to create and he knows what the end result will be before hand. So, he chose to create THIS universe with US in it. He then decided to deliver his ultimate message of wisdom to mankind. So to do so he dicides the best method is to command a group of illiterate, barbaric, tribal people in the most corrupt parts of bronze-age middle east to write his message down. He knows before hand that mankind will not be able to meet his expectations, but yet he still decides to punish them for every generation to come. Instead of reflecting upon his all-powerful self to see how he could possibly fix the problems and messes he creates, somehow it becomes mankind's fault and he just punishes them. So after he engineered the circumstances in which these unpowerful humans would become "fallen", he creates a penalty of infinite torture to send them to upon death. He then sets out to create a loop hole by which humans can escape this penalty and seek reward. But the reward is not based on how good of a human being is, it is based purely on worship and adherence. He then decides the best way to go about this is to have a self-crucifixion in remote, ancient palestine. He didn't choose a time and place where these events would be easily recorded as history. Instead, decades after the supposed fact, a group of credulous historians with a religious agenda wrote down hearsay accounts of the story (the Gospels), while simultaneously opting not to name themselves or cite their sources. God then deems this act as one that would save mankind from an eternal punishment that he created in the first place. So, fast forward 2,000 years and we have over 30,000 denominations of Christianity alone. Thousands of other competing, incompatible religions that all make the same claims about being the one and only revealed truth and that all the others are wrong. We have wars, bigotry, division, hatred, and ignorance as a result of these absurd dogmas. If this God meant to effectively communicate his message to mankind, then this God has failed. So in conclusion, this god is all-knowing and all powerful. Therefore, he knew what was going to happen. Therefore, he engineered the circumstances of non-belief, knowing that the evidence for his existence would be zero. He then makes believing in him the only key to escaping infinite torture, and he also created the penalty for unbelief. This God either doesn't exist, or he is the most vindictive, homicidal, sadomasochistic, evil being that ever existed. I like the former myself. Besides, we know how the current state of the universe is formed and how humans evolved to be what they are today. It's called science. You know, that thing where they actually go out and find real answers to these questions by using skepticism and reason instead of making up mythological bull****. So yeah, Christianity (along with all other religions) is bull****. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 The God hypothesis is very childish and stupid if you think about. ..... So yeah, Christianity (along with all other religions) is bull****. Buddhism has NO God. So I take it you're excluding that particular religion? Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpybutfun Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Even if one believed in an entity of unparalleled vastness and omnipotence, evolution isn't technically pure creation. Best, G Link to post Share on other sites
Doop Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Buddhism has NO God. So I take it you're excluding that particular religion? Not fully excluding it. Some Buddhist practices are very rational and useful. It is probably the best religion there is. It still has its irrational parts. But for the most part its not nearly as childish and silly as say Christianity. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 ...when humans are the most destructive of all animals? Humans did not use to be "the most destructive of all animals" and someday they will return to their ideal state. Christians say God created us to experience His love, to love Him and each other. Amen!!! But love and good cannot be defined and therefore exist without evil.I disagree because nowadays we see the stark difference between good and evil, but once evil has been wiped out, we will still know the difference due to the past. What is the point of experiencing love when there is so much sacrificial suffering in the world? The point is because this world is temporal, not eternal. Is God some kind of narcissist or has He made a big mistake?Neither. God is not naturally human, so He thinks differently than humans do, like humans think differently than ants do. Ants can't see what humans can. In the same way, humans can't see what God can. While humans didn't create ants, God did create humans (and ants). Link to post Share on other sites
SincereOnlineGuy Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Look up the word 'consciousness'. It has several meanings, the particular one you're referring to being incorrect in this context. If you read what other posters have written, we are discussing the effects of the psychological meaning, of having self-awareness and the ability to reason, not the physical meaning of being awake. You still have no understanding of what you're writing. One is either 'conscious', or he/she is not. The "ability to reason" has zero to do with "consciousness". A near-death crow has as much "consciousness" as does a near-death human. In both cases, one is either out, or it isn't. One should think that your imaginary friend would have made this clear to you by now. But look-up... maybe a cloud formation will show you a sign that you're not supposed to miss. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Not fully excluding it. Some Buddhist practices are very rational and useful. It is probably the best religion there is. It still has its irrational parts. But for the most part its not nearly as childish and silly as say Christianity. Could you give me an example, please? If you like, post in this thread (So as to not take this off-topic)...? I'm not looking to be argumentative, here. I'm just interested in discussing your views, which of course, you are 100% entitled to.... But if I can add a different perspective, it would be an interesting discussion.....? Link to post Share on other sites
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