I broke NC:(

[Forceawakensme]

LD .. Aha!! -- I have an idea where you are and yes..we should def meet up! I can meet you after your dental work somewhere. --Also, i dont know how specialized your work is but you should consider job options over here! Its an exciting city...--you could still meet your (tax free) financial goals and oh the good news: Lots of quality married men here. (JK everyone!!). Seriously though, i have an idea of some of the places you may be and i have friends who lived there before here and its very isolated and lonely and yes.. pretty much no decent single men.

 

Expat communities are so hard though, like you said. Socially-speaking.. my entire social fabric is interwoven completely.. i barely know one person here who doesn't know him. Its a mess. His wife would also shoot back to their home country w kids in tow in mere minutes if she caught wind...hence his fear. His kids ALSO think he is superman.. (i think he may actually have literally dressed in the costume on more than one occasion). The bottom line is the kids come first and they absolutely should.

 

So ---- That leaves me with the 'when do i pull the trigger and delete the email'.

 

Oh also.. your number 13.. made me smile.. i experienced almost the same thing.. the 'i love you'... that wasn't returned during the act..awkward. That said -- like yours, my MM is so cautious with what he says.. (hence the spilling of feelings AFTER its too late and ive spent months being mad at him for blowing hot and cold as i had no idea why. It was so much easier to end it with him when i was mad at him.. now im tortured with knowing how he really feels.. PS --- I wonder if how MM are from the same place. (london).. i sometimes think a lot of our problems are cultural as he sometimes talks in posh polite circles.. i just always wished he'd come out and say it..lol. Well he certainly did and now we cant put the genie back in the bottle and he needs to stay away. Painful.

[lemondrop21]

Force, I will get in touch with you next time I'm in town and we will meet up and have a drink . Should be the first week of March and I'm planning to stay a few days during that trip so it will be perfect timing. I can't imagine how I'll feel if I have been in NC all that time. It seems so far away. Here's hoping the both of us are doing better by then.

 

I don't wanna post where my exMM is from as I've already given so many details, but I'll tell you when you get PM abilities or when we meet up. He's not English but cultural background did come into play in our relationship, I think. (By the way, I just made it EX-mm and changed to past tense, have to get into that habit as you said!).

 

Do you feel like you're going to need to move before your head can be clear of exMM? What are your long-term plans?

[lemondrop21]

Gotta disagree. If they absolutely love you, cannot live without you, they will eventually leave. It may take a while, but it will happen.

 

One can only speak from their own experience. My ex husband left his wife and kid for me. They had a tolerable relationship. He left and was with me within six months. To this day he says the love we had back then was something special, something he never had experienced previously. To him, that love was worth it. And even when I went on to have my own affairs during our marriage, he still felt our love was worth it enough to reconcile.

 

Right, we are on the same page.

 

You also mention above that your husband reminded you that he left his marriage for you... do you mean, he resented you at times? How did you cope?

Edited January 23, 2016 by lemondrop21
Didn't see an additional post

[minimariah]

PS --- I wonder if how MM are from the same place. (london).. i sometimes think a lot of our problems are cultural as he sometimes talks in posh polite circles.. i just always wished he'd come out and say it..lol.

 

this is interesting -- yeah... it's definitely a cultural thing with UK men. something i've noticed, too - they tend to be very reserved and almost... a little frightened of their own feelings they think are inappropriate...? something along those lines.

 

I think he could plod along in it for the rest of his life -- if he was miserable i would have been telling him to leave but he wasn't. (...) Its purely because of his feelings for me he spoke of leaving ---

 

in my personal opinion (this is just an opinion; not a fact... i can totally be wrong) -- if there is adultery involved, a marriage cannot be an OK marriage -- it's a very troubled marriage. i think that's conflict avoidant personality speaking up -- a form of denial = when he talks about his marriage being fine.

 

a horrible marriage doesn't necessarily need to be a sexless marriage, where the spouses avoid each other like plagues, where they barely speak to each other or fight all the time... on the outside, a lot of marriages look FINE; but when you dig deeper... you find a deeply troubled and miserable relationship.

 

it is unfair of your MM to put his leaving on YOU -- that's something a lot of MMs do. NO ONE leaves for a third person, meaning... a third person cannot be the cause. this third person can only be a trigger and when folks decide to leave - they leave because they can't be with the FIRST person anymore; because they're done with that life. so that emotional detachment comes first, only then comes infidelity.

 

you took a huge responsibility on yourself for his marriage potentially falling apart - when your role is minimal, at the end of the day. if he will leave, he will leave for himself... NOW... your MM is a "play it safe" kind of guy. won't leave his safe option for something he knows MIGHT fall apart in the future. i also see that a lot with MMs. and i kind of understand it, too.

 

my advice would be -- break the NC, be honest with him and tell him you want to be with him. tell him you want to figure out some kind of plan to be with him, tell him you want a strict timeline with some moves being made. if he fails... i think you'll move on a lot more easier than this way... wondering WHAT IF, you know?

 

you didn't want to tell him to leave his wife because you didn't want to be responsible for that pain - but you're not, either way. no matter what he tells you - don't let him put the burden of his failing marriage on YOU. it's absolutely illogical to say that his marriage is an OK one and that he isn't miserable when he's having a long term affair and contemplating leaving - don't fall for it.

[Cymbeline]

Having spent many years overseas including the Gulf, I am going to disagree with Minimariah. I'm also going to generalise!

 

There tends to be an aspirational mindset in those of us who become expat. Often personalities who are restless or want variety or just 'more'.

 

Materially, the lifestyles in these countries are something to behold for those with good incomes. Yet there is always someone with more or a new experience to have.

 

The levelling aspect of home - family, old friends etc, is weakened. Ones identity is made more fluid and changeable in a Multicultural environment, where all friends are new.

 

The life - especially in countries where, if you lose your job, you need to leave within weeks - feels temporary and transient. People come and go ALL THE TIME. Nothing is permanent and there is no 'ownership' among expats.

 

All these things ( and other factors too - for example, spouse and kids disappear for 8 weeks in the Summer heat. Travel is part of work as are flashy parties and exciting socialising )contribute to a kind of fantasy environment where opportunities to be someone different are legion.

 

Add to that a lot of attractive, dynamic single people, an atmosphere where sexual titillation and opportunities feel 'in your face' and a moisture of cultures, some of which take infidelity almost for granted, the scene is set for emr s.

 

I'd say many a satisfactory marriage has suffered.

[Ms. Faust]

Right, we are on the same page.

 

You also mention above that your husband reminded you that he left his marriage for you... do you mean, he resented you at times? How did you cope?

 

No, he used it to keep me in line. We really were not a good couple. Our relationship should not have gone on as long as it did. I was not even 20 years old and he was quite older. We broke up or talked about breaking up a few times, and he would remind me "I left BS for you". The 30something me would say "f******ck you", but the 19 year old me kowtowed.

 

The last time he said that to me was during our divorce, but by then I saw my out and I was taking it.

 

I didn't cope very well, lol. I stayed in a relationship for 10 years too long, and had to have intense therapy afterwards. My people-pleasing was in overdrive (an issue I am still working on) and my self esteem was pretty well shot.

 

Sometimes I have nightmares I am still married to him. It's all quite sad. I did love him intensely at one point, but it really should not have been.

[NewLeaf512]

Having spent many years overseas including the Gulf, I am going to disagree with Minimariah. I'm also going to generalise!

 

There tends to be an aspirational mindset in those of us who become expat. Often personalities who are restless or want variety or just 'more'.

 

Materially, the lifestyles in these countries are something to behold for those with good incomes. Yet there is always someone with more or a new experience to have.

 

The levelling aspect of home - family, old friends etc, is weakened. Ones identity is made more fluid and changeable in a Multicultural environment, where all friends are new.

 

The life - especially in countries where, if you lose your job, you need to leave within weeks - feels temporary and transient. People come and go ALL THE TIME. Nothing is permanent and there is no 'ownership' among expats.

 

All these things ( and other factors too - for example, spouse and kids disappear for 8 weeks in the Summer heat. Travel is part of work as are flashy parties and exciting socialising )contribute to a kind of fantasy environment where opportunities to be someone different are legion.

 

Add to that a lot of attractive, dynamic single people, an atmosphere where sexual titillation and opportunities feel 'in your face' and a moisture of cultures, some of which take infidelity almost for granted, the scene is set for emr s.

 

I'd say many a satisfactory marriage has suffered.

 

Don't forget tax free income.

[NewLeaf512]

coincidence that we (finally) hear about their true feelings for us at the end, because they’ve made their decision to end it, so the stakes of being authentic/vulnerable (the risk of having to actually follow through on them) has passed...

 

 

...or they just don't want to seem like the bad guy and want to leave things open just in case...because if it really were that good, then .......

 

I think this is it in many cases. It's a crumb like any other.

[lemondrop21]

No, he used it to keep me in line. We really were not a good couple. Our relationship should not have gone on as long as it did. I was not even 20 years old and he was quite older. We broke up or talked about breaking up a few times, and he would remind me "I left BS for you". The 30something me would say "f******ck you", but the 19 year old me kowtowed.

 

The last time he said that to me was during our divorce, but by then I saw my out and I was taking it.

 

I didn't cope very well, lol. I stayed in a relationship for 10 years too long, and had to have intense therapy afterwards. My people-pleasing was in overdrive (an issue I am still working on) and my self esteem was pretty well shot.

 

Sometimes I have nightmares I am still married to him. It's all quite sad. I did love him intensely at one point, but it really should not have been.

 

Thank you for elaborating. It sounds like you've been through quite a lot and I'm glad to hear that you've gained strength, self-esteem and healing over time.

[lemondrop21]

Don't forget tax free income.

NL you made me laugh. Thanks for that, I needed it this evening.

[NewLeaf512]

Upper Middle Class and Upper Class British men are by and large an unbelievably repressed and reserved group. It's been studied and proven that this demographic represent the largest cultural group of male sexual submissives.

 

Sharing feelings is Just Not British, Darling. Men who are raised by nannies just can't connect very well.

 

Sending hugs.

 

Upper Class NL from London (surrounded by emotionally retarded men)

 

XX

[lemondrop21]

Having spent many years overseas including the Gulf, I am going to disagree with Minimariah. I'm also going to generalise!

 

There tends to be an aspirational mindset in those of us who become expat. Often personalities who are restless or want variety or just 'more'.

 

Materially, the lifestyles in these countries are something to behold for those with good incomes. Yet there is always someone with more or a new experience to have.

 

The levelling aspect of home - family, old friends etc, is weakened. Ones identity is made more fluid and changeable in a Multicultural environment, where all friends are new.

 

The life - especially in countries where, if you lose your job, you need to leave within weeks - feels temporary and transient. People come and go ALL THE TIME. Nothing is permanent and there is no 'ownership' among expats.

 

All these things ( and other factors too - for example, spouse and kids disappear for 8 weeks in the Summer heat. Travel is part of work as are flashy parties and exciting socialising )contribute to a kind of fantasy environment where opportunities to be someone different are legion.

 

Add to that a lot of attractive, dynamic single people, an atmosphere where sexual titillation and opportunities feel 'in your face' and a moisture of cultures, some of which take infidelity almost for granted, the scene is set for emr s.

 

I'd say many a satisfactory marriage has suffered.

 

I agree with almost everything you say, especially the leveling aspect of home disappearing. The "summer bachelor" phenomenon is also interesting.

 

I live in the worst Gulf country and there isn't really glitz and glamour going on here. High salaries, yes, but just lots of house parties and people bored out of their minds. I think marriages suffer where I am more so because everything, all the time, is family time and it gets oppressive. There's this veneer of it being this lovely little small-town compound, families enjoying life by the pool and in their picturesque cookie-cutter villas. But then you start to dig below the surface and things get scary.

 

There aren't many "attractive dynamic single people" here at all - a handful of us really, if I can take the liberty of counting myself in that group. The spouses view us with suspicion and wariness, but also look down on us for not having started our own happy little families. Personally I'm glad I don't have to spend my weekends going to kiddie birthday parties and book club, which seems to be what most of the married women here enjoy (not that there's anything wrong with it, just not my cup of tea).

 

However, I believe what you say about the "lifestyle" and plenty of singles around, to be true other places in the Gulf. Just sharing a little more of my own experience.

[lemondrop21]

Upper Middle Class and Upper Class British men are by and large an unbelievably repressed and reserved group. It's been studied and proven that this demographic represent the largest cultural group of male sexual submissives.

 

Sharing feelings is Just Not British, Darling. Men who are raised by nannies just can't connect very well.

 

Sending hugs.

 

Upper Class NL from London (surrounded by emotionally retarded men)

 

XX

 

Nearly spit out my tea reading this one! Would love to see that study. Best LS post of the day by far.

[NewLeaf512]

Nearly spit out my tea reading this one! Would love to see that study. Best LS post of the day by far.

 

Google it and you will see. It's fascinating. X

[minimariah]

It's been studied and proven that this demographic represent the largest cultural group of male sexual submissives.

 

i did NOT know this! interesting...

[Forceawakensme]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just wanted to post an update. Ive been staying away from LS as i was getting a bit triggered and i was trying to just heal in silence. Evidently that didn't work as i just broke NC (again)..I emailed him from my secret email account - he has deleted his secret account which we both did on break-up day, the difference is i opened another one -- He has not. .I emailed his main email address, the only way i have to contact him right now - which he has emailed me from sometimes so i know its not super unsafe.. 'can we be friends..' (im referencing a shared social circle that we have both been avoiding to not see eachother.. there are a lot of events coming up and i was hoping to go to them -- and YES, of coruse i was hoping to see him there .. and look incredibly hot and make him want me back -- There, i said it).

 

ANyway, his response was "yes definitely! would love to be friends .. WE (meaning wife and him) will be there and very much look forward to seeing you!"..

 

Then he follows up with another email right after saying "perhaps shut your email account down since its dangerous for you to email this address". OUch. Effing Ouch.

 

I responded back -- pathetically.. immaturely .. whatevs with " Thats great news i look forward to seeing you both! -- Also, Im afraid I wont be shutting this account down as its primary use is not to email you. I have no need to do that again now. Cheers. --- Ugh.. yes, i know dripping with passive aggression --- But it could have been worse?

 

Im venting here. I know all the good golden advice.. NC NC NC .. stay the Eff away. No need hurts etc etc. Maintain some of your self-respect (too late.. just lost it) --- and stay away from all those social events, wise advice -- even though in reality its going to be next to impossible as one of them is an event my Bestfriend here is having and my absence would be bizarre... all our friends are interlinked. Stupid me. Yes.

 

Anyway.. Just giving another episode of my cautionary tale..

 

I wont say im back to Day 1 though as i dont feel the same exquisite agony i felt on the actual break-up day 3 weeks ago.. So SOME healing has transpired.. Not far behind though.

[Forceawakensme]

THanks for letting me vent my update.

 

Oh and LD i emailed you x

Edited February 1, 2016 by Forceawakensme

[privategal]

Awe. No judgement per se breaking contact and your plan to get him back but please do be a little more realistic about things if you can think it through.

He already thought you were hot before...it wasn't enough.

He already misses you...that isn't enough.

The same obstacles (he cant leave, feels guilt, doesn't want to get a divorce getting caught, doesn't want drama in living a double life) will still fully exist if you go back.

So I have no desire to give you a moral lecture but I just feel its gonna be another go around for NOTHING.

He is making a future including dates and plans and vacations with his family.

No matter how much fun he had with you, he loves her and likely feels relieved not to be in a mess that causes him to feel crazy and guilty and wracked with anxiety and stress all the time. He truly does seem like he welcomed your offer of friendship as it causes him to feel less guilt toward you but that's all it is.

He doesn't want this heavy burden back, he sees it as maybe a fond memory but he seems refocused on his marriage and moving forward.

If you can just see it casually like that and stay away, maybe even stay away from the events, you would be able to make those same strides forward that he is.

Now that you know you aren't moral enemies, maybe that could help you to think more of letting go than rekindling.

I truly do not think he has any interest in rekindling. He is just trying to not look like the bad guy and have the best possible outcome which is his wife loving him, you not hating him, and moving forward.

[rainbowsandkittens]

aw i'm so sorry force! i would honestly try and skip as many of the events as you can. do you really want to see him and his wife? i think i might lay down dead if i saw my ap and his wife. in person. ever. (but probably a picture too would be bad.)

 

i have felt the same way about ls being triggering. then again, these days, anything is triggering.

 

take care of you!

[jenkins95]

I don't know if he threw you away, I just think hes married and cant try to be everything to everyone, make you happy, not get caught, make her happy, be a provider and a Dad and deal with two womens emotions and his own.

It just got too complicated. Once a lot of arguing and real future questions come to light and the AP starts to feel a lot of guilt or stress it is no longer fun. Most people I assume are in it for fun and excitement. It isn't fun or exciting to be breaking up and making up and up and down and worry and fear. I think in the end, even if you too REALLY were actually in love, it doesn't matter, love isn't enough.

When its new its exciting, it creates happiness and both AP feel validated and cared for. But that stage doesn't last. When the threat of Dday combined with arguments, and the fear of changing his whole world to be with you all come into play, it just tarnishes the light fun sexual playful side until it breaks.

He doesn't want to be in a mess anymore. He wants to have a good life and I don't think they go away hating us (the men), women seem more prone to anger and utter rejection feelings. I think the MM just get extremely logical and finally think, this is hurting her, me, and it cant be sustained, and they hold onto the happy memories, and end it.

That's not how it ALWAYS happens, Im just suggesting it seems feasible this might be what happens in a lot of cases.

 

I know this is quite an old post, but I just wanted to say that from the point of view of the MM, this rang very true indeed. Good post privategal. This sums up the end of my affair very well. What started as great fun had descended into neediness, hurt and regret on all sides. The smiles and laughs had largely been replaced by arguments and tears, and it wasn't healthy for anyone any more. Of course, it NEVER had been healthy, but the initial fog makes you blind to that.

 

By the way, how are you doing force? Seen you around the forum quite a bit, but no update to this thread for a while. Hang in there! You will get better! We are here for you

Keep posting!

Edited February 25, 2016 by jenkins95

[Cappycorny]

Long-time lurker who has spent many a lonely night poring over these threads and finding solace in the outpouring of support and tough-love advice here.

 

I am coming off two year EA/PA w MM. I am 30-something OW.

 

There has been no D-day but after two years of enduring the typical push-pull, breadcrumbs, stomach-churning guilt and fear of being discovered i put an end to it. He was devastated and told me i was the Love of his Life etc -- would leave his wife for me (which i know from reading here has zero chance of actually ever happening) and begged for one more chance. I told him i was tired of the breadcrumbs and wasnt getting anything out of the relationship because it was on his terms. I didn't particularly want him to leave his wife for me, but i was enjoying the relationship very much 'when it was good'.

 

So we got together last weekend. He took a ridiculous risk to see me, in fact, i almost thought he wanted to get caught based on the risk factor. While we had an amazing night, he spent the majority of the night declaring his love and trying to convince me to have a future with him. I kept saying 'its not realistic' to which he would argue reasons why i was wrong. I was pretty clear that i didn't want him to leave his W and felt that all we had was the here and now. After reading about MM and their agendas on here, i thought that would suit him well.

 

Anyway, Something at the end of the night spooked us both and the very real idea of discovery seemed likely. Fortunately it was a false alarm but its resulted in him emailing me after the weekend saying that he cannot carry on. That he cannot control his feelings; he said they are causing him anguish, pain and causing him to make reckless decisions that will result in him getting caught. He said that he has gone back and forth constantly but he is going to be strong and end it.

 

Of course, being the idiot that i am, i wrote him saying 'lets just scale it back and be more careful.. lets keep our feelings in check, but no need to end it entirely'. To which he responded, 'im sorry, i need to just move on completely'.

 

Im now feeling very confused and in pain. I know i said i didn't want him to leave his wife but i am feeling thrown away so quickly and suddenly, its hard for me to see things rationally. I hope people on here can shed some sage logic on to this as i am just a pit of sad and confused emotions right now. My chest is hurting, i feel sick in the stomach and although i know i obviously have to move on, i just wish i knew why his sudden change.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your pain I almost feel it. My bet is you are feeling rejected more so then anything right now. You clearly stated you did not see a future with him yet continued to see him for your own reasons for which I understand. Read back what you typed here. His fear of getting caught do to a close call says it all. He wants to be where he is on most nights and you have been a wonderful side dish to him. Now he's home with the wife, and not reaching out to you and you've been rejected. That hurts like heck. Infact I should probably be typing this to myself because it's exactly how I feel do to an unanswered text. Think somehow you need to see him for what he is. A married man who's intent is to stay put. Try to walk away. Try really hard. - cappy