My username sums it up; I'm in shock

[BlueIris]

13Hearts, why is this so hard to understand? Those unnamed men ASKED you to do things or TOLD you what they wanted to do - in advance.

 

You're one of several posters that has stated or implied that she should consider his motives because it's somehow relevant that he could have asked her 20 years ago for consent - he didn't - and she might have agreed - as she's stated, she wouldn't. Somehow this is supposed to make what he's done less repugnant.

 

Yes, and I think it makes it more repugnant, much more repugnant. This is 20 years of deception, 20 years of hiding who you are, and 20 years of "using" your partner. It doesn't even have to be sexual for a 20-year deception and exploitation by your partner to kick you in the gut. Pretend it was 20 years of deceit about money or 20 years of deceit about anything else you say or do to or about your spouse. It's being defrauded for decades. Ugh!

[Grumpybutfun]

Read the tome, and let me just tell you how terribly sorry I am you are going through this. The duplicity alone, the disrespect, the refusal to do whatever you need to me speaks volumes about your husbands values. I believe your husband is sorry...sorry he got caught. Forget the couples counseling (liars can't effectively process therapy, but can pretend and lie their way to surface redemption,) invest in individual counseling only, retain the divorce lawyer because that is the only course that is safe for you and tell your kids you love them but there are circumstances beyond your control at work here. They will survive. I have a twenty two year marriage with kids your age and I would expect, no demand, my wife leave me if I had mentally abused her in this manner. She deserves better, and so do you. He is a disgrace to all husbands trying to maintain and have loving, open communicative marriages.

You deserve better. You deserve to have your golden years without being with a con man. This isn't a fetish...this is a con and he is still cashing in on this confidence game by just giving you enough to make you doubt your initial intuition which is to leave.

Best,

Grumps

[bathtub-row]

Did anyone ever see the movie Breach? It's based on a true story. The guy taped him and his wife having sex AND SHARED IT WITH OTHERS!!! He also worked for the CIA and sold government secrets to the Russians for 20 yrs. He claimed to be a devout Catholic. His wife, to this day, refuses to believe her husband did anything wrong.

 

OP, I'm not saying that you're like this guy's wife but my point is, this man shared those tapes with others. Do not be surprised if your husband has done that.

[spyedonfor20plus]

 

SpyedOn's a grown woman who has given birth to and raised FIVE children. I'm quite confident she can make her own decisions about whose opinions or posts are helpful to her and what she's going to do about her weird husband and his questionable motives and behavior.

 

Thank you 13hearts for the support. He is weird to me now, and his motives and behavior now and in the past ARE questionable. Someone else said money is wasted on him in therapy with me; I tend to agree. He can say anything and will to keep to me to keep his life at status quo. The only good thing is that having my therapist see him in action can give me another perspective as to whether he is believable.

 

Also, lol I only have 2 kids. Don't know where the 5 came from but it made me laugh which I needed!

[13Hearts]

Thank you 13hearts for the support. He is weird to me now, and his motives and behavior now and in the past ARE questionable. Someone else said money is wasted on him in therapy with me; I tend to agree. He can say anything and will to keep to me to keep his life at status quo. The only good thing is that having my therapist see him in action can give me another perspective as to whether he is believable.

 

Also, lol I only have 2 kids. Don't know where the 5 came from but it made me laugh which I needed!

 

LOL Spydey, I must have been thinking of another poster Either way, I believe moms are strong people. I'm glad my goof made you laugh. I hope you have some girlfriends close by you can talk to about your dilemma!

 

I have general opinions about the sexes, one of which agrees with what you're saying about your husband wanting to maintain the status quo. I've heard a lot of women say this. I guess he should have thought about that before setting up his secret live action toilet-cam. He must have believed you would never discover it but when I read one of your posts it seemed to me he purposely left the videos out for you to find.

 

I'm glad you have someone who can also evaluate him. Does he have a sister or ex-wife you can talk to and get some perspective?

 

I remember when I first learned about BTK and how he was killing people all those years and his wife and children had NO IDEA; that was when I realized you never really know a person, even when you're married to them. So weird. And scary!

 

Take care. I hope you're able to get some sleep and relax too, despite the worries there are cameras around. I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to detect them through the walls.

[13Hearts]

OK, do you have a smartphone? Because check this out.

 

Use your smartphone to detect hidden cameras: You can use your smartphone to search for hidden cameras too. Surveillance cameras usually use night vision for night surveillance. They make use of IR LEDs to produce infrared light, which can be only visible by a camera. Turn your room completely dark—turn off all lights in the room. Then start your smartphone in camera mode and point it around the room. If you see any red or purple lights (bright or dim) you could have spotted a night vision camera. If you don’t know what an infra red light looks like, you can do the following as a test. Turn off all your lights in the room and start up the camera. Now use any television/DVD/AC remote and press the buttons while pointing it to the smartphone’s camera. You will see the infrared light emitted by the IR LED on the remote.

 

A smartphone with a flash is can also help with spotting regular cameras. Download some flashlight apps which can flash signals (blink at fast rates). Start the flashlight app and set the app to rapidly flash the LED on and off. Now do this in the dark room and flash the light against all the areas and from all possible angles. If there is a hidden camera in the room, you should be able to see a tiny red dot or light reflecting back to you from the camera’s lens. Try this at home if you can. Place any camera, or a smartphone with the camera pointing in your direction (this will act as a spy camera). Now turn off the lights and start the flashlight app on your smartphone. The flashing light will reflect off the ‘spy’ camera’s lens and you will be able to spot it. There are gadgets available in the market that is specially meant for this method of spy camera detection.

[Zapbasket]

OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I admire your efforts to understand and to lay out all your options before making a decision on what to do. If it were me, I think I'd feel so violated I'd have to end the marriage.

 

I had a boyfriend who enjoyed pushing my buttons and one time did something that really made me feel violated: early in our dating, on our first shower together, he joked that he was peeing on me. I jumped back in disgust, visibly upset, and he laughed and said, "I didn't actually pee ON you; I just peed into the drain." I was still upset and he got mad at me, saying I was escalating the situation, making a big deal out of nothing, etc. Something about it really made me feel and I confided in my mom about it, and she said, "I'd have gotten out of the shower, put on my clothes and shoes, and left and never, ever looked back. That would have been IT for me." It took me a few years but I finally realized that she was right.

 

Another time in our relationship I tore a ligament in my knee while skiing and had to go for a company drug test. To get to the building where the test was held, I had to walk across a plaza on my crutches wearing only my very sheer long underwear (my ski pants couldn't fit over the knee brace and they were the only pants I had with me). My then boyfriend thought the whole spectacle was funny and pulled out his camera to take a picture. I begged him not to, and got upset when he acted like I was being uptight and "ridiculous." I said, "Seriously? I am really upset, in shock, this injury has just cost me my job, I've never used crutches before...I just need you to be with me and I'm not ready to joke about any of this yet." He didn't understand and felt I was being hard on him for no reason.

 

these are minor boundary violations compared to what you have experienced, but even at this level, the frequency of such violations always made me feel uneasy, unsure, and upset, and then questioning myself when my boyfriend would tell me, contemptuously, that I was making a big deal out of nothing.

 

I don't think men are pigs / perverts, as some have suggested on this site...but I do feel that the variable reactions people have to women being violated, subtly or violently, point to just how entrenched the objectification of women still is in our culture. Violating someone's privacy is just not okay, not even--and perhaps especially--in a marriage.

 

OP, I'm also confused why your therapist feels your marriage could be worth salvaging if he has also told you he thinks your husband is a narcissist. He certainly sounds like a narcissist in his response to being caught. There seems to be no empathy there for you, only remorse for having been caught. Those two reactions (empathy vs. sorrow at being caught) are worlds apart and speak to very different kinds of character. Given your husband's obvious lack of empathy, I have to question whether your marriage really has been as good as you might have believed it was. Perhaps over the years you have made many more allowances than you should, without even realizing it. Your husband does not sound like a good person, sorry. Of course I hope you will do what is right for you, but I'm rooting for you to leave this man and start a fresh life for yourself. you sound like such a grounded, strong person and I can only imagine you have raised sons who will respect whatever decision you make--especially if they can see it makes you happier. No one would want their mother to live with such violation. No one.

[spyedonfor20plus]

OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I admire your efforts to understand and to lay out all your options before making a decision on what to do. If it were me, I think I'd feel so violated I'd have to end the marriage.

 

I had a boyfriend who enjoyed pushing my buttons and one time did something that really made me feel violated: early in our dating, on our first shower together, he joked that he was peeing on me. I jumped back in disgust, visibly upset, and he laughed and said, "I didn't actually pee ON you; I just peed into the drain." I was still upset and he got mad at me, saying I was escalating the situation, making a big deal out of nothing, etc. Something about it really made me feel and I confided in my mom about it, and she said, "I'd have gotten out of the shower, put on my clothes and shoes, and left and never, ever looked back. That would have been IT for me." It took me a few years but I finally realized that she was right.

 

Another time in our relationship I tore a ligament in my knee while skiing and had to go for a company drug test. To get to the building where the test was held, I had to walk across a plaza on my crutches wearing only my very sheer long underwear (my ski pants couldn't fit over the knee brace and they were the only pants I had with me). My then boyfriend thought the whole spectacle was funny and pulled out his camera to take a picture. I begged him not to, and got upset when he acted like I was being uptight and "ridiculous." I said, "Seriously? I am really upset, in shock, this injury has just cost me my job, I've never used crutches before...I just need you to be with me and I'm not ready to joke about any of this yet." He didn't understand and felt I was being hard on him for no reason.

 

these are minor boundary violations compared to what you have experienced, but even at this level, the frequency of such violations always made me feel uneasy, unsure, and upset, and then questioning myself when my boyfriend would tell me, contemptuously, that I was making a big deal out of nothing.

 

I don't think men are pigs / perverts, as some have suggested on this site...but I do feel that the variable reactions people have to women being violated, subtly or violently, point to just how entrenched the objectification of women still is in our culture. Violating someone's privacy is just not okay, not even--and perhaps especially--in a marriage.

 

OP, I'm also confused why your therapist feels your marriage could be worth salvaging if he has also told you he thinks your husband is a narcissist. He certainly sounds like a narcissist in his response to being caught. There seems to be no empathy there for you, only remorse for having been caught. Those two reactions (empathy vs. sorrow at being caught) are worlds apart and speak to very different kinds of character. Given your husband's obvious lack of empathy, I have to question whether your marriage really has been as good as you might have believed it was. Perhaps over the years you have made many more allowances than you should, without even realizing it. Your husband does not sound like a good person, sorry. Of course I hope you will do what is right for you, but I'm rooting for you to leave this man and start a fresh life for yourself. you sound like such a grounded, strong person and I can only imagine you have raised sons who will respect whatever decision you make--especially if they can see it makes you happier. No one would want their mother to live with such violation. No one.

 

Thank you greencove for your empathy And for also sharing your own stories. I do appreciate your rooting for.

Me

At age 53, its harder to start again with life especially since I have not been in the full time.workforce in 24 years. But I have some.ideas and mom would back.me if need be

 

As for.is it worth saving,: only for my boys and their future families. Although if we find out worse things next week, he will need in depth counseling for his particar issue. O wi will.need some kind of other help.

[BettyDraper]

Read the tome, and let me just tell you how terribly sorry I am you are going through this. The duplicity alone, the disrespect, the refusal to do whatever you need to me speaks volumes about your husbands values. I believe your husband is sorry...sorry he got caught. Forget the couples counseling (liars can't effectively process therapy, but can pretend and lie their way to surface redemption,) invest in individual counseling only, retain the divorce lawyer because that is the only course that is safe for you and tell your kids you love them but there are circumstances beyond your control at work here. They will survive. I have a twenty two year marriage with kids your age and I would expect, no demand, my wife leave me if I had mentally abused her in this manner. She deserves better, and so do you. He is a disgrace to all husbands trying to maintain and have loving, open communicative marriages.

You deserve better. You deserve to have your golden years without being with a con man. This isn't a fetish...this is a con and he is still cashing in on this confidence game by just giving you enough to make you doubt your initial intuition which is to leave.

Best,

Grumps

 

This. Very well said.

[BettyDraper]

Thank you greencove for your empathy And for also sharing your own stories. I do appreciate your rooting for.

Me

At age 53, its harder to start again with life especially since I have not been in the full time.workforce in 24 years. But I have some.ideas and mom would back.me if need be

 

As for.is it worth saving,: only for my boys and their future families. Although if we find out worse things next week, he will need in depth counseling for his particar issue. O wi will.need some kind of other help.

 

I thought your kids were grown? If so, I don't understand why the marriage needs to be saved for them. It's not like they are still dependent on you.

 

I can appreciate that it is harder to start over as you get older, especially if you have not supported yourself for over 20 years. This is why I always say that housewives should have their own money in the bank. The good news is your husband would owe you a hefty settlement.

[spyedonfor20plus]

Well, the husband has agreed to have his laptop sent to computer forensics. He swears there is nothing on it, which is probably true since there are other ways, but he may have let something slip. Either way, I'm taking it.

 

He gave permission in front our our therapist so I have a witness if it ever comes to that.

 

Husband still is having a very hard time understanding why this is so colossaly upsetting to me. He is willing to see what ever therapist I choose to help him. He and I both think a female may give him some better help.

 

It still boggles my mind why he can't grasp the enormity of this deception and invasion.

 

He is apparently like some of you on here that have been like, "Eh, what's the big deal?"

 

Still I'm going day to day and taking a trip this weekend with some girls.

 

But got more bad news today when I found our 12 yo golden retriever has hemangiosarcoma and has only months to live. I truly don't know how much more I can take.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well, the husband has agreed to have his laptop sent to computer forensics. He swears there is nothing on it, which is probably true since there are other ways, but he may have let something slip. Either way, I'm taking it.

 

He gave permission in front our our therapist so I have a witness if it ever comes to that.

 

Husband still is having a very hard time understanding why this is so colossaly upsetting to me. He is willing to see what ever therapist I choose to help him. He and I both think a female may give him some better help.

 

It still boggles my mind why he can't grasp the enormity of this deception and invasion.

 

He is apparently like some of you on here that have been like, "Eh, what's the big deal?"

 

Still I'm going day to day and taking a trip this weekend with some girls.

 

But got more bad news today when I found our 12 yo golden retriever has hemangiosarcoma and has only months to live. I truly don't know how much more I can take.

 

It's good he's willing to have it looked at.

 

I am very sorry about your dog. That's very tough.

[turnera]

I'm curious why you think he'd be better off with a female therapist.

[Mr. Lucky]

Well, the husband has agreed to have his laptop sent to computer forensics. He swears there is nothing on it, which is probably true since there are other ways, but he may have let something slip. Either way, I'm taking it.

 

Like many people, he probably has more than one laptop. I have one personal, one business and a beater I keep for overseas travel.

 

You might want to gather up them all, plus desktop, tablets, phone, flash drives, memory cards, external HDs, etc. I'm assuming he's giving you username/password to any cloud storage also.

 

He won't object if nothing to hide, right ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[dreamingoftigers]

Like many people, he probably has more than one laptop. I have one personal, one business and a beater I keep for overseas travel.

 

You might want to gather up them all, plus desktop, tablets, phone, flash drives, memory cards, external HDs, etc. I'm assuming he's giving you username/password to any cloud storage also.

 

He won't object if nothing to hide, right ???

 

Mr. Lucky

My husband kept a laptop hidden in our garage.

 

Yeah, that wasn't innocent.

[Just a Guy]

IHi Spied on, it seems that after the initial shock and horror, that you have settled into a state of acceptance of the status quo. It seems also that you are not likely to pursue any drastic action like divorcing your husband or putting the police on to him. If you have reconciled yourself to a life with him then what are you planning to do to ensure that he does not invade your privacy again after a cooling off period when you relax your defences? I had suggested in a previous post that your husband may be suffering from some kind of a psychiatric problem and that getting him to a psychiatrist may help unravel his problem and put him on a path to recovery. I am sure if he actually does have a psychiatric problem and he gets cured, that after him, you would be the biggest beneficiary of his cure. Have you considered this possibility or are you convinced that it is only a perversion and something within his control? Even perversions are a psychological problem arising out of something in the person's past. Maybe he suffered abuse as a child or was bullied in school or any number of other possibilities. The thing is that this is a man you loved dearly at one time and even now there is possibly some residual feelings that you harbour for him. Even as a friend of his wouldn't you want him to be whole again? I can understand the revulsion that you feel for him but at the same time, after your emotions have cooled, you realize that you still care for him otherwise wild horses would not be able to keep you with him. My point in all this is that as a relatively objective observer, you may be able to see things which are not obvious to your husband and if he actually benefits from psychiatric therapy, apart from him, you would benefit the most from his recovery

It would help you live in a happy relationship in your twilight years. Also if you do this for him you would be honouring the letter and spirit of your vows made when you married him first which was that you would love and cherish him for better or worse and through sickness or in health. If I remember correctly, you had said that apart from this terrible detail your marriage had been reasonably good and that your husband seemed to be a good man. In any case you are the person in the driver's seat and only you know where the shoe pinches. I wish you the very best and hope that you come out of this terrible experience to lead a happier and more satisfactory life in the future.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Just a Guy

[turnera]

You absolutely should be gathering up every single piece of electronics in the house and taking it to the forensic guy.

[MJJean]

I am so sorry that your Retriever is ill. I lost my Pit Bull, Rita, to cancer last year. It's rough. I still miss her every day. I had three other dogs to help me get through, which was a great comfort. If you think it's something that might work for you, maybe adopt or buy another dog now. Your older dog can show the new dog the ropes and you'll have a furry buddy to help you through when you're grieving.

 

I agree with seeing a female therapist. Perhaps a woman could better convey to him the seriousness of his breach of trust if the person you have already seen has failed. Just make sure you pick the right kind of female therapist. Someone qualified to deal with his particular issue.

 

One day at a time is good, so long as you have a plan! You're coping very well.

[Lois_Griffin]

Husband still is having a very hard time understanding why this is so colossaly upsetting to me. He is willing to see what ever therapist I choose to help him. He and I both think a female may give him some better help.

 

It still boggles my mind why he can't grasp the enormity of this deception and invasion.

Yeah well, don't waste your time letting your mind be too boggled.

 

He grasps it alright, or he wouldn't have gone to such astronomical lengths to HIDE it from you for 20 years. This guy is a MASTER of deception and is putting on a big dog and pony show for you, claiming he doesn't get what the big deal is. What a crock of manure. Is he giving you that wide eyed look of innocence too, like a 10 year old kid does when they're caught playing with matches and they pretend they didn't realize how dangerous it was so their parents are more concerned about lecturing them about safety than they are doling out the actual deserved punishment?

 

I can see right through this guy's manipulative little tactics. How can you not?

 

He's playing dumb, is all. Do you think he's actually going to admit that he knew full well what a violation it was to you, but his sick little need to satisfy his own deviant desires SUPERSEDED your need to be treated with decency and respect? He'll never admit to that, so he's going to continue playing dumb and confused because the alternative - being honest - ain't an option.

 

This guy is such a manipulator.

[privategal]

Its really sad to see you are staying married to him, wasting energy on counseling all with excuses, I cant work, I have the kids.

I feel like the professionals you consulted with should have said get out.

You compromised your own dignity now by staying.

For gosh sakes your own neighbor has to watch for you that he doesn't harm you. Your living in denial, making excuses and staying with a monster whom you will never trust, see the same or feel safe with again.

Its sad to see a capable woman not take control and be able to stand on her own 2 feet. That would have made your sons proud and your husband would only have learned a lesson if he lost his wife.

Saddest story ever.

Prayers for your dog.

[anika99]

OP my condolences to you for your dog and for the situation with your husband.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in not making any hasty and rash decisions. This is a decades long marriage, almost your whole adult life, so of course you are going to need some time to process this and decide what to do next. You only discovered this a month ago and it likely still feels somewhat shocking and surreal. You HAVE NOT compromised your dignity. You have been the victim of being violated and you have every right to take your time in processing that. You have done nothing wrong and don't deserve to be shamed and sneered at just because you didn't pack up your sh*t and walk away from your life and marriage immediately. I wish you luck in whatever you decide and whatever decision you make concerning your marriage.

[JamesM]

OP my condolences to you for your dog and for the situation with your husband.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in not making any hasty and rash decisions. This is a decades long marriage, almost your whole adult life, so of course you are going to need some time to process this and decide what to do next. You only discovered this a month ago and it likely still feels somewhat shocking and surreal. You HAVE NOT compromised your dignity. You have been the victim of being violated and you have every right to take your time in processing that. You have done nothing wrong and don't deserve to be shamed and sneered at just because you didn't pack up your sh*t and walk away from your life and marriage immediately. I wish you luck in whatever you decide and whatever decision you make concerning your marriage.

 

Worth repeating more than a few times.

 

Walking away without trying or discovering the complete truth would always leave you with many questions from "why," what all happened," to "what if."

 

Agree. Making rash decisions based on emotions would not be good. Making the same decision after all of the facts have been collected and reviewed would be better because at that point you know it was good as in only thinking it may be good.

 

You seem balanced amidst the turmoil.

[MissBee]

Why are people so easily offended by fetishes?

 

This guy has a repressed voyeuristic fetish he was probably too embarrassed to talk about.

 

Give him a break...

 

He did the right thing by focusing his fetish on his wife only and remaining faithful to her.

 

This is your husband, spyedon. This is the man you've been with for 20 years. Have some compassion and accept him for who he is.

 

So you found out he has a weird fetish. That doesn't make him a different person. In fact, this isn't even that weird of a fetish.

 

There are a lot worse guys out there than a guy who loves his wife so much, he makes her the main object of his fetish for 20 years while raising 2 kids and being faithful.... jeez.

 

But why was it a secret though? In relationships couples usually share their fetishes or whatnot with each other and explore them together.

 

The problem here is, he is filming this woman in SECRET. Husband or not, she is a person who didn't know she was being filmed in her most private moments, something is terribly wrong with that picture. No one is saying it is wrong to have a fetish, but it is definitely wrong to secretly film your partner having sex, using the toilet etc for years and years and years, where they've not been given the right to participate or not. She obviously now feels betrayed that he hid this obviously HUGE aspect of himself from her. THAT is the part that is a big problem.

 

If your secret fetish has nothing to do with me or other people it would still be weird that we're married and you never decided to disclose it to me. I would think you didn't trust me why. But worse, if your fetish involves me or other people, then sorry no, that is when you don't have the right to include me without my knowledge for TWO DECADES! If you see nothing wrong with your spouse hiding things from you that include you and that, just like she found out, their kids might have too, then that's great but it's not bizarre for other people to find that strange as well as have it feel like a betrayal or like you are with someone you don't know as much as you thought.

Edited February 12, 2016 by MissBee

[bathtub-row]

Worth repeating more than a few times.

 

Walking away without trying or discovering the complete truth would always leave you with many questions from "why," what all happened," to "what if."

 

Agree. Making rash decisions based on emotions would not be good. Making the same decision after all of the facts have been collected and reviewed would be better because at that point you know it was good as in only thinking it may be good.

 

You seem balanced amidst the turmoil.

 

Personally, I think either reaction is valid. Some people have a very strong sense of their boundaries and a zero tolerance for someone who crosses them. This is the type of person who would bolt without asking a lot of questions. On the other hand, some people would need to step back and assess the situation because it's so foreign to their ability to comprehend what was done and how to react. This is the person who would wait before making a move in order to get all the facts.

 

Like I said, I think either of these reactions would be appropriate in this situation. Her husband took the chance of being left and/or alienating his wife when he violated her privacy the way he did. I would never trust him again and when that's lost, the game is basically over for me.

[bathtub-row]

Worth repeating more than a few times.

 

Walking away without trying or discovering the complete truth would always leave you with many questions from "why," what all happened," to "what if."

 

Agree. Making rash decisions based on emotions would not be good. Making the same decision after all of the facts have been collected and reviewed would be better because at that point you know it was good as in only thinking it may be good.

 

You seem balanced amidst the turmoil.

 

Personally, I think either reaction is valid. Some people have a very strong sense of their boundaries and a zero tolerance for someone who crosses them. This is the type of person who would bolt without asking a lot of questions. On the other hand, some people would need to step back and assess the situation because it's so foreign to their ability to comprehend what was done and how to react. This is the person who would wait before making a move in order to get all the facts.

 

Like I said, I think either of these reactions would be appropriate in this situation. Her husband took the chance of being left and/or alienating his wife when he violated her privacy the way he did.