Ex OW here, got back together with (ex)MM after his divorce. Problems persist.

[ElectricTangerine]

My SO and I started out as an affair. Being in a relationship where one party is still committed to another person is, frankly, heartbreaking. The pains and pleasures can be so intense, and seeking help, understanding and guidance from people who have been or are in similar situations is so incredibly helpful. So, I used to post here a lot. I described my story in great detail in the past, so if anyone is interested, read my history. All I will say here is that me and my SO started as an affair 3.5 years ago. He lied, I caught him, so I broke up with him and followed NC. About 6 months later he came back with freshly signed divorce papers. After giving it a lot of thought, I decided to take him back. That was about 1.5 years ago, and during this time I met his family (they live on the other side of the world), started spending time with his son (11 years), and two months ago, even moved to his country to live with him (found a job there). Overall we are just a normal couple now. Finally. All is well. More or less.

 

More or less. What always bothered me about the relationship was his wife. DUH. Now ex, but still. She's very dependent. She was a housewife for the duration of their marriage, which was 10 years. Still, she refuses to work full time and pull her own weight, and is now asking for a sizable alimony through her lawyer (on top of generous child support and payment for his son's private school). I haven't been told the whole situation, but that's just a gut feeling. It's been a point of tension between me and SO as well, because he is in my opinion giving into her tactics too much. SO also decided to fire his lawyer and try to deal with the ex and her lawyer directly. Two weeks ago, SO dropped of his son after a fun weekend for all of us. It took him an unusually long time to come home this time. He was extremely upset when he came back, told me that he and the ex have had a massive fight in the middle of the ****ing street. He was yelling. She was yelling. In front of their son. Soon after that she called him on his cell, and again they engaged in a yelling argument. Tears were involved. She knows how to ****ing manipulate him, no doubt about that. And he ****ing lets her, every time. She can get a rise out of him whenever she pleases. And I hate it.

 

That event really changed something in me and I was able to look at the situation differently. I felt the same as the time when I realized that I need to break up with him. We had an honest conversation, I thought he understood the severity of the situation, and admitted that there are problems in how he's dealing with the ex. He agreed to make changes. So, a couple of days ago, me and SO went to a new laywer. SO got officially divorced about a year and a half ago, but custody, alimony and potential retirement split were never actually officially agreed on. Custody terms were discussed, his retirement will not have to be split, but the subject of alimony was sort of wishy-washy. Officially, according to the law here, the she is supposed to have a full time job. After the kid turns 3, women are supposed to return to a full time position. BM did not and apparently will not. Though, the lawyer said, how the court chooses to implement this law varies quite a bit. When they were still married, they first agreed that she would be a SAHM until kid enters kindergarten. Kid enters kindergarten, no job, just excuses. Then they agreed that she needs to find a job when kid enters school. Kid enters school - no job. She only got the part time job after they got divorced. She is not looking for a full time job now, saying that in August her current job will become full time - but the contract will expire after 2 years.She will rely on alimony to supplement her income. Great.

 

At the lawyer, SO was quite distraught. He just wants closure, he said. He doesn't want to pay so much alimony, but would be willing to pay some anyway until she gets back on her feet (which is August, when full time job will 'supposedly' kick in for 2 years). And I'm thinking, WTF?! How many times does she have to show him that having and keeping a full time job is not exactly high priority for her? How does he not see that she wants to continue being financially dependent on him, and not stand on her own two feet? How can he be so naive to be willing to pay her more alimony, despite her repeated attempts to stay dependent? What the ****?! The ex is playing hardball. She's demanding all that she can get through her lawyer. Mind you, SO already wanted her to keep the vast majority of the money they got from selling their house during divorce. He volunteered because he felt she needed it more. And now she's asking for more. And he still holds on to this belief that she will someday see the error of her ways and become independent.

 

In the car ride home, he was even mentioning how stupid it is of her to play hardball, and that she would got so much more out of him if she was acting more reasonable. I still don't know how to take that. I know that my SO is very kind, full of empathy, optimistic, very generous and giving. But come the **** on!!! I do have to say that SO has been mostly good about keeping in low, mostly through email contact with ex, and it almost never concerns things other than SS. He doesn't enter her apartment during pick ups and drop offs, he does not help her out in other ways. But still, there is this inkling of concern he has for her and her wellbeing that insanely bothers me. Not to mention, she is still able to get a rise out of him. I brought this up to SO on more than one occasion, and recently asked him to read Saying Goodbye to Crazy and Custody Chaos, Personal Peace. It seriously bothers me, and I'm not sure he gets my point or how serious I feel about this. At the same time, I'm doubting my own emotions and wondering if I'm not just a jealous troll.

 

I have invested SO MUCH into this relationship working. Aside from issues with the ex and his passiveness, he is still my dream guy. We get along so well, we share all the same interests, he is the perfect travel buddy, incredible cook, has a beautiful personality, is gorgeous, and his family is absolutely awesome. I even get along with his kid. But This. ****ing. Problem. Persists. It may get smaller and smaller, but it does not go away.

 

In the past few days I've shifted my thinking. I used to be convinced that he just mismanages the ex. That he's still caught in the dysfunctional dynamic they had when they were still married, but was otherwise over her and has fully processed that his marriage ended. Now I'm not so sure anymore. The fact that the intensity of emotions, even if they are negative, is still there, speaks volumes. Him agreeing to pay her some alimony until "she gets back on her feet", speaks volumes. And his comment that she would get more out of him if she would play nicer, also speaks volumes.

 

It still FEELS to me like there is an additional person in our relationship. I've felt it from the start, which is of course obvious, but I figured with divorce, that would go away. I don't know if I'm just hypersensitive because of how our relationship started. I'm really not sure. It is possible. He DID divorce, and their contact IS very low. But I still can't shake off this feeling of devastation, that despite all the work, he still cares about the ex. It just breaks my heart.

 

Now, I'm trying to figure what to do. Should I give him one last chance, let him finish those books and find out how things go with the lawyer or in court. Perhaps my perception is wrong. Perhaps all the work and effort we both put into this relationship will finally pay off, and me and him will just become a normal couple. Is this just wishful thinking?

 

The other part of me realizes that it's time I got some standards for myself and become more decisive. Have better boundaries. Decide what I will and will not tolerate and follow through. Once and for all. I know I cannot continue like this much longer.

 

I know there are some people here who made it work with MMs after all. Divorce, the whole nine yards. To you I ask:

 

- How did you deal with your SO getting over the divorce and the ex wife while you were in a relationship?

 

- How long did it take him/her?

 

- What should I do?

 

To everyone else reading this... The last question applies as well. What should I do? Any input, comment, anything is very much appreciated. Thank you in advance and big hug to you all!

 

tl;dr: started out as an affair, he lied, I found out, I broke up with him, went NC. Dude actually divorced. Took him back, was very happy, but lately thinking I maybe just had my head buried in the sand. He might still not be completely over his ex and marriage and I am heartbroken, again. Please help.

[Popsicle]

Are you in the U.S.?

[Popsicle]

Now you understand why some married men never divorce....

[ElectricTangerine]

Are you in the U.S.?

 

 

Nope, Europe.

[RySant]

started out as an affair, he lied, I found out, I broke up with him, went NC. Dude actually divorced. Took him back, was very happy, but lately thinking I maybe just had my head buried in the sand. He might still not be completely over his ex and marriage and I am heartbroken, again. Please help.

 

Can you elaborate more on the lying part that ended with you breaking up with him?

 

EDIT: It's not him being over, I have a hunch that it's the guilt that's causing him to agree with the demands of his wife. His wife never had any job for 10 years, and for some reason, he feels responsible for it. Did you ask him if he asked her to be a housewife before?

[Popsicle]

Divorced should mean that EVERYTHING is settled.

 

I have a hunch that he doesn't care about money that much, as long as he has the basics. (which is fine if you ask me)

 

If things continue as they are, I think both ElectricTangerine and her guys frustration and resentment will grow towards each other.

[minimariah]

But still, there is this inkling of concern he has for her and her wellbeing that insanely bothers me.

 

so...? he married her once. he has a child with her -- he can be concerned with her without being in any way romantically interested in her. i don't see a man who is still suffering for his wife or even marriage - i see a man who is trying to deal with the ex the best way he knows how (you know... the ex he cheated on and dumped for another woman) and i see YOU, making everything that more complicated for him with your jealousy.

 

you'd actually be bothered if he was to enter into her apartment...? you'd be bothered if they talked about things other than their child? is he not allowed to be more than strictly business cordial with someone he spent years with?

 

where is this huge insecurity coming from?

 

just my opinion...

 

you are the problem in this story -- you can't handle the fact that he had a life before you, at all. you're the one who is jealous & posessive. you're super involved with the way HE deals with HIS ex wife -- she is none of your business. the details of his divorce and other settlements are none of your business. you're bringing too much negative energy into his already strained relationship with the ex while trying to tell him what's the right way to deal with HIS past relationship.

 

Should I give him one last chance, let him finish those books and find out how things go with the lawyer or in court. Perhaps my perception is wrong.

 

it should be HIM who should think about giving YOU any kind of chances. who needs a jealous girlfriend who'll control the relationship and freak out if you show once ounce of concern over someone you once spent a good chunk of your life with?

[Popsicle]

Quite frankly, if I was lucky enough to get my xMM, as in he divorced, and came to me, I would be MORTIFIED if he didn't want to pay child support or alimony according to what the courts say. It's the least he could do.

[minimariah]

folks expect the relationship with the ex to be STRICTLY business -- when the man shows some kind of feelings for someone he has history with, it's suddenly a huge dealbreaker.

 

the OP is bothered by the fact that her now partner wants to help and be on good terms with the ex. she is bothered by the fact that he cares about someone he used to share his life with & thinks "low contact" is how it should go, thinks it's a sign that their relationship is doing well -- that's straight up immaturity.

 

i cannot imagine my ex husband's new partner dictating the terms of OUR divorce and OUR relationship.

 

clearly, the negativity she felt for the ex wife during the affair only intensified post divorce & she took it on her to "open her partner's eyes" and save him from manipulative ex.

 

because if they see each other more than once a year and speak about godforbid other stuff NOT related to their child... it must be a sign that he's still not over the wife.

 

OP, time to grow up. focus on your relationship and let him deal with HIS ex.

[VeveCakes]

It is disgusting in this day and age that a divorced man must support his ex financially.

 

Op aside from that I think you need to chill a bit. He left his wife and is with you now. You have what you wanted. Try and deal with her for the time being and see what the future brings.

[RySant]

It is disgusting in this day and age that a divorced man must support his ex financially.

 

Again, we NEED to know first why this woman stopped working for 10 years. There must be a reason for that one, let's not throw the darts at her first.

[Lurkeraspect]

I believe the OP said that her SO and his ex made the decision for her to be a SAHM until the kid(s) were in school. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

[minimariah]

Again, we NEED to know first why this woman stopped working for 10 years. There must be a reason for that one, let's not throw the darts at her first.

 

because they agreed that she'll be a SAHM.

 

i don't know about the OP's country -- but in my country, the jobs (even the minimum wage ones) are NOT just waiting around the corner.

 

being unemployed is a real problem in a real world.

 

OP - i read your previous threads. you said that he sent emails to his then wife (at the period of the time he told you they were separated) about doing a lot of things together, calling her pet names & telling her he adores her... is that's what this is really about? is that why you think he still might have feelings for her - because he wasn't honest with you the first time? did you ever discuss and worked out that issue with him?

[Noideanow]

Here i sit and think (maybe stupid me;)) that what you write sound (a bit) controlling, could you let it up to him more how to handle the situation?, afterall its his ex and child:cool: maybe you could connect a little more with your softer side and use a little more patience and trust towards him:( maybe im wrong or getting the wrong impression, but it sure sounds toxic the way the situation is:( hope for the best for you both.

Could also be the case that im the one too little controlling and that i have something to learn from you;)

[HappyAgain2014]

This is why the advice to OWs is to tell MM not to come back until they are divorced and done with these details is so important. So many OWs believe the hard part is him leaving. Oh no, that's just the beginning.

 

I realize the OP did end it until he was divorced but this situation demonstrates the need to stay out for a long time.

 

I believe the OPs former MM is operating out of guilt and conflict avoidance. That conflict avoidance didn't change because his marriage ended. Now you're directly affected by it. That's the only change.

 

Even divorced, you're still secondary to his ex-wife. You've put way too much emphasis on her victimizing her former husband. He's responsible for himself and how he reacts to her. I wouldn't expect that to change. You get what you tolerate. I think you've waited for your turn to get his best but are now realizing that broken man is what you're getting.

 

I realize you've invested a lot but I'd get out. Affairs are typically doomed from ever becoming a productive relationship. Your story demonstrates why.

[RySant]

because they agreed that she'll be a SAHM.

 

i don't know about the OP's country -- but in my country, the jobs (even the minimum wage ones) are NOT just waiting around the corner.

 

being unemployed is a real problem in a real world.

 

I missed that. Sorry.

 

Well, that explains it then! I mean, this kind of decision should only happen IF 2 people are sure that they will be together till the end (which, obviously didn't happen) so yes, they wife deserves to have that alimony and support. What will she do? It's not her fault that his husband left her.

[VeveCakes]

Again, we NEED to know first why this woman stopped working for 10 years. There must be a reason for that one, let's not throw the darts at her first.

 

Oh I wasn't judging, I just think it's a ridiculous law that's all.

[NewLeaf512]

I'm in Europe and as I'm sure there are other solicitors /barristers/ lawyers etc here who will maybe have something to offer as well, here's my 2p as a former OW

 

You are helping mother a child of a woman whose xH cheated on her with. You are with him. He came back to you after he concluded his marriage legally.

 

He has a child who sounds like he's under about 6. ExW will be in your life heavily until this child is at least 18 and then to a lesser extent for the rest of your life as long as you are with this man. You need to get over it if you love this man whom you describe as magnificent.

 

The exW needs to get a job, but I'm unsure of your local in-country laws. The amount of money she could get is dwindling with legal fees )hers and his. If the alimony is really the issue you have two options: help your SO to instruct the best family solicitor you can find and use the law to stop the alimony. Else go cheap as chips and get a mediator and get a deal done. I suspect money isn't the issue.

 

Please know money doesn't equal love. If I had my dream man I'd be damned if I'd let my petty jealousy and insecurities mess it up. He's divorced. He doesn't want his child to live in poverty. He chose you. He is with you. His family and child are onboard. He's trying to sort it. This is an issue in your mind. Be supportive, he needs that, not a jealous issue at home.

[minimariah]

I believe the OPs former MM is operating out of guilt and conflict avoidance.

 

same. i HIGHLY doubt this man has any romantic interest in his ex - wife. he DID divorce, for crying out loud. that means something!

 

and the OP's theory that he feels something because she "gets a rise out of him"... i mean, why do we expect folks to be cold as ice to their ex partners and everything else is a sign that they're still in their feelings?

 

Oh I wasn't judging, I just think it's a ridiculous law that's all.

 

it's actually not ridiculous at all. it serves to protect SAHMs (mostly) who agreed to be SAHM & trusted their partner -- and then that same partner decided to ditch them (not saying that was the case here). the law, just like many others, has it's purpose -- even if you don't see it. and judging others (you definitely did that) and calling it "embarrassing" is super tacky and unnecessary.

 

even if the wife REFUSES to get a job -- according to the OP, the law actually protects her PARTNER and doesn't allow support for spouses who are capable to work. if i understood -- this is her partner's good will, he is willing to help out his ex until she finally gets a job & his girlfriend dislikes it.

[RecoveringSlowly]

I am not going to heap here, but there are a few facts that you need to be aware of.

 

1. When you have a child with someone, born in a loving relationship, a part of you will always love a part of them. You see it in the tilt of your child's head, or in their smile. The two of them made another human together. That is an incredibly profound connection. It never goes away, even if you hate them.

 

2. You do not have the right to control his relationship. He and his wife made promises to each other, promises that had nothing to do with you. You are overstepping.

 

3. If you cannot deal with this jealousy in a constructive fashion, then I would suggest moving on. Maybe you are to wrapped up in yourself and not able to see that he has needs regarding the treatment of the mother of his child, and that his needs should overcome your wants.

 

I see this often with OW. They have this fantasy that they will be stepping into the wife's shoes and that the wife should quietly disappear. You chose to involve yourself in the relationship of two other people. You don't have the right to complain about the parts of that relationship that exclude you.

[Trishern]

Unfortunately when you end with a divorced man, these are some of the things you have to put up with. Women will often ask for more, especially when their husband is in a new relationship.

 

 

She will probably say that her skills are not as up to date because she spent time at home looking after their child. As such she can't earn very highly unless she does some job training/back to college and even then a good job is not guaranteed.

 

 

Some guys people pay a one off lump sum payment and agree on no SS. perhaps he might want to do that if possible and then when their son is 18 he stop spaying CS.

 

 

Mrs T

[minimariah]

i will also add -- it's normal to ask your partner to set up some boundaries in his relationship with the ex wife but OP... you're doing way too much.

 

for some reason - you still see her as a threat and every little sign of him being friendly and helping her out drives you mad.

 

setting up boundaries? sure. acting like the ex doesn't exist & not giving a damn about her; refusing to help her out when she needs it...? leave that to the insecure & immature folks.

[Trishern]

I am not going to heap here, but there are a few facts that you need to be aware of.

 

1. When you have a child with someone, born in a loving relationship, a part of you will always love a part of them. You see it in the tilt of your child's head, or in their smile. The two of them made another human together. That is an incredibly profound connection. It never goes away, even if you hate them.

 

2. You do not have the right to control his relationship. He and his wife made promises to each other, promises that had nothing to do with you. You are overstepping.

 

3. If you cannot deal with this jealousy in a constructive fashion, then I would suggest moving on. Maybe you are to wrapped up in yourself and not able to see that he has needs regarding the treatment of the mother of his child, and that his needs should overcome your wants.

 

I see this often with OW. They have this fantasy that they will be stepping into the wife's shoes and that the wife should quietly disappear. You chose to involve yourself in the relationship of two other people. You don't have the right to complain about the parts of that relationship that exclude you.

 

 

^^^^^^^This is a fantastic post. It's not all peachy and rosy just because he's divorced. His wife could very well still be dealing with the betrayal. Meanwhile it seems you want her to do like a David Copperfield trick and disappear.

 

 

It sounds like there is so much anger and bitterness coming from you because of the finances. You will have less joint income when you have a man who has to pay SS and CS. That's the choice you made when you got entangled with someone else's husband, you wanted the man and now you have him.

 

 

There's a downside to everything in this life.

 

 

Mrs. T

[VeveCakes]

same. i HIGHLY doubt this man has any romantic interest in his ex - wife. he DID divorce, for crying out loud. that means something!

 

and the OP's theory that he feels something because she "gets a rise out of him"... i mean, why do we expect folks to be cold as ice to their ex partners and everything else is a sign that they're still in their feelings?

 

 

 

it's actually not ridiculous at all. it serves to protect SAHMs (mostly) who agreed to be SAHM & trusted their partner -- and then that same partner decided to ditch them (not saying that was the case here). the law, just like many others, has it's purpose -- even if you don't see it. and judging others (you definitely did that) and calling it "embarrassing" is super tacky and unnecessary.

 

even if the wife REFUSES to get a job -- according to the OP, the law actually protects her PARTNER and doesn't allow support for spouses who are capable to work. if i understood -- this is her partner's good will, he is willing to help out his ex until she finally gets a job & his girlfriend dislikes it.

 

If you quote me at least get it right - I said it was disgusting and I was speaking in general not about this woman alone.

 

SAHM or not you have two feet and a heartbeat - no need for the ex to support her FULLY. He already supports the kids. That's my opinion, you don't have to agree!

[minimariah]

If you quote me at least get it right - I said it was disgusting and I was speaking in general not about this woman alone.

 

even worse. & how is that not judging?

 

SAHM or not you have two feet and a heartbeat - no need for the ex to support her FULLY.

 

he agreed to support her UNTIL she gets a job. and he doesn't support her FULLY because she apparently has a part time job. the OP has a problem with that because she sees it as manipulation and doesn't want her partner to help out the wife in ANY way (read her previous threads).

 

and since when does having two feet and a heartbeat guarantee you a JOB or MONEY? you can have twoo feet & a heartbeat and be unemployed.

Edited January 21, 2016 by minimariah