Ex OW here, got back together with (ex)MM after his divorce. Problems persist.

[MJJean]

MMJean:

 

I like you. So I want to gently disagree. I work for a large company in upper management. I see it time and again..... if someone man or woman has been out of work for six years, I am very reluctant to hire them. So are most of my colleagues in my business as well as competing fields.

 

She may need to be re-schooled. Six years is a long time to become a dinosaur in this age of electronics and the rapid changes that ensue annually.

 

Also, if they live in the 'burbs. There really aren't very many high paying jobs.

 

As far as supporting his child. He should WANT to support his child. As far as alimony. How much would it cost this man to hire a nanny to take care of his child? He is too young to be left home alone until six or seven in the evening when the wife would get home from work.

 

As for the OP. Don't forget, this woman is her ex-husband's affair partner. I don't think she has very much empathy for her husband's affair partner. Would you?

 

I understand your point of view, but I think maybe your position narrows your vision. We all see life from our own point of view and sometimes we come from very different places.

 

When I said "full time job" I did not necessarily mean the kind of jobs you might think of when hearing that phrase.

 

Where I come from, you work what job you can get. Salary, hourly, low pay, high pay, commute to the city,...doesn't matter. You work what you can get. Just because that's what adults do.

 

If the job doesn't afford you the lifestyle you had become accustomed to, you cut expenses to the bare bones, live within your means, and work to increase earning potential.

 

She gets X amount from her job, Y in the form of child support, and Z in the form of spousal support. She's got an education, so I am sure she can do the math and come up with a monthly budget. She may not like that budget and may be really sad about giving up some things she used to enjoy, but that's life.

 

She's already been given more than her share from the sale of the house. She's already receiving alimony and child support. And she has her own income from her part time job. I don't think she has the right to ask for more than that and she's asking.

[MJJean]

I'm in Europe..August is school holidays across Europe as far as i know and you can't just leave an 11 year old at home all day through the holidays. Childcare or kids clubs aren't cheap....I paid £45 per day child in a kids club. An 11 year old wouldn't want a nanny.

 

There's no other parent I could ask or wanted to ask...I didn't want my kids bored all day.

 

I wouldn't want to ask a neighbour to check on my child ...These things are a personal choice for parents..you can't tell a mother what to do.

 

She probably won't earn a huge amount unless she's doing skilled professional work....even working full time.

Unfortunately. ...this is the real cost of divorce..it's no picnic.

 

I thought they were in the US, but I may be wrong.

 

Either way, this is one of those things that seems fairly universal. People, no matter where they are from, have to find a way to work it out for themselves. Sometimes, that means being creative in finding a solution. Sometimes, it means doing something you'd rather not, but recognize is necessary.

 

If the OP was angry because her formerly MM was paying his share of alimony and child support, I'd think she lost her mind and that he should absolutely pay. But the thing is, he's paying her child support and alimony. He's not obligated to do more than that. And he shouldn't be. He shouldn't be obligated to give and give to someone he is no longer married to. She shouldn't be taking more from him than alimony and child support because that keeps her dependent on him, which is no favor to her at all.

[loveboid]

I would just keep supporting him.

 

The tension all of you are experiencing is common to families forced to deal with each other financially after a divorce. Once the last dollar is paid peace, healing and healthy coparenting reigns. I would look up alimony reform and testimony from people on how alimony affects their families before and after to see that you're not alone.

 

Socioeconomics are changing and alimony is getting limited in favor of self-sufficiency.

[Gigi2015]

So you think she's attempting to sabotage the legal system to defraud her ex financially? Doesn't seem like it to me. If she intended it to be that way she would not be pursuing full-time work. She'd continue either not working, pretending to be suffering an emotional breakdown(with probable proof of infidelity), or any other excuse. I place emphasis on actions not emotions. I think she's favoring SELF- sufficiency

[whichwayisup]

 

And yes, I am aware I'm still toting around the baggage of the time he lied to me. The OW element is hard to delete. Mistrust lingers, hypersensitivity is present, jealousy bares its teeth. Hence posting this thread. I'm really trying to be aware of my part in this and work on fully healing. I want a normal relationship with this man. And for the record - I don't hate the BM. Their son is a wonderful person and she must have been doing something right as a parent to raise him so well. They both did. I respect that, tremendously. I would honestly love to have a better relationship with her, but given that I am the other woman her husband left her for, I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

You apologize to her one day when the timing is better, go for coffee or lunch. You show her that you adore their child, that you will be there as a friend to their child, that you respect her and want her to be included forever. By doing this it will show her that you're a NOT threat, you're not trying to be the mom to their child and take over and shove her out of the picture. If you can extend the first olive branch I think it will go a long way and eventually mean something to her as time goes on.

 

The other stuff, that's your issue you need to work through and let go and forgive yourself and MM of how you two ended up together, you can't put that baggage on her.

 

Let him sort out his divorce details in his own way and just focus on the now and moving forward.

 

An 11 year old, generally speaking, is capable of spending 4 hours at home.

 

This all depends on the child. Each kid is different. My friend has an 11 and 14 year old, no way would she ever leave her 11 year home alone!! A parent knows their own child best so its easy to say let the 11 year be at home for four hours, that's fine if the kid is mature and self sufficient on some level, but most 11 years, especially boys are NOT. Far from it.

Edited January 29, 2016 by whichwayisup

[loveboid]

Here's an example of testimony on how alimony affects families in today's day and age:

 

[Gigi2015]

Here's an example of testimony on how alimony affects families in today's day and age:

 

 

It varies from country to country....even state to state....

[Poppy47]

Which way up has given you great advice.

 

It might take all the courage you have but do it and mean what you say.

This woman is facing huge changes, which she did not bring upon herself.

 

She has gone from having a partner to support her as a parent to being solo parent. Gone from being dependent to self reliant.

 

Not an easy task for her and it could take a long time.... at LEAST 12 months and probably longer.

 

You need to be fully cognizant of the financial and custody agreements. If you are not included and respected you will begin to feel resentment and it will damage the new relationship.

 

Time will make things easier for all of you.

 

Poppy.

[loveboid]

Yes, US states are gradually reforming their alimony laws. Vermont just got an activist group to change their laws. There's talk in Israel of reforming alimony. Some countries around Norway area have already reformed to where there is no alimony or expectation of profiting financially from a divorce...divorces are also quicker and less expensive in lawyer fees as a result.

 

This is the result of women entering the workforce nationwide and worldwide. It's ironic that with the pay gap, women are hired and kept more than men in downturns--employers favor cheaper labor. There are more women graduating college than men as well.

[bathtub-row]

Just to clarify, I never suggested that is ex shouldn't work because she's the mother of his child. Actually, I don't think she shouldn't work for any reason. I was a single mom for many years and I dealt with it.

 

What I did say was that it was understandable that he cares about his ex because she's the mother of his child. Heck, I barely give a fig about my ex on a personal level but he is my son's dad and that's a big deal. What I also said was that caring about someone does not mean that that person wants to be with that person, or that they should be.

 

My whole point is that divorces are very complex things and because you are in his life while he's going through it, you get to experience all the crap that goes with that. That's just the way it is. If it bothers you that much, maybe you should exit his life until it's all resolved.

 

I will say again that intruding too much in his decisions in this area are very likely to backfire on you so I hope you proceed with caution.

[Raena]

I'm chiming in again. The reason why I posted was to get different perspectives on a matter that I was struggling with. Once you spend a prolonged amount of time dealing with something by yourself, things can get skewed, and fresh outside input can be very helpful. I do feel that the intention of my original post and the message I tried to convey were misunderstood by some. I also wrote the original post at a time of distress, which lasted for a few days, and writing it all out was therapeutic.

 

As evident from this thread, alimony and rights (is that the right word I'm looking for?) of a new partner in a relationship with a divorced man in general are divisive topics, where emotions run very high. Everyone has their own past that influences them and values that color their view on the issue. In my case, I'm a fan of independence and personal responsibility. And I think it should apply to everyone. People are responsible for their choices. Choosing to be a SAHM comes with a degree of risk, and refusing to find a job even after you were supposed to according to the agreement you had with your spouse, is in my opinion, a luxury that comes with a high price. I too, have seen single parents really struggle to make it work. I see the necessity for alimony in certain cases. In BW's case, not so much. I've seen a lot of speculation on here, so let me clarify again:

 

1. She refused to find a job after son entered school, it was a huge point of tension in their marriage.

 

2. She was able to support herself before the son was born.

 

3. All of their son's expenses are covered by SO.

 

4. Son attends an excellent school and stays in school every day until 4 pm.

 

5. Said school is walking distance from their home, grandparent's home AND her sister's home.

 

6. Son is healthy, doing great, no behavioral issues. BM is healthy and able to work.

 

In this case, I see no reason why she should be exempt from working just because "she's the mother of his children". So what? I get that SO has a past, I get that there'll always be some sort of a connection. But giving birth to one child does not make you disabled and unable to work, and using a kid as your golden ticket to be entitled to free money for life is in my opinion, wrong and irresponsible.

 

And yes, I am aware I'm still toting around the baggage of the time he lied to me. The OW element is hard to delete. Mistrust lingers, hypersensitivity is present, jealousy bares its teeth. Hence posting this thread. I'm really trying to be aware of my part in this and work on fully healing. I want a normal relationship with this man. And for the record - I don't hate the BM. Their son is a wonderful person and she must have been doing something right as a parent to raise him so well. They both did. I respect that, tremendously. I would honestly love to have a better relationship with her, but given that I am the other woman her husband left her for, I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

 

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders about it all... except for the part where you are focusing on his ex's choices. She chooses not to work and expects alimony... those are her choices. She'll be the one to deal with the consequences of choosing not to get a job. I can't believe that a court would actually set alimony high enough for her to sustain herself on it solely unless your SO happens to make a LOT of money... then it's possible. Eventually she's going to have to find a way to sustain herself independently if he doesn't.

 

The point is though... that's not really your concern. That's her choice and that's the chances your SO took when he divorced. I hate to say it that way like I'm being nasty about it, but that's the way it goes sometimes. His best bet is to get a good lawyer and stop engaging in arguments with her.. especially not in front of their child.

 

And like I said before... you need to take a closer look at your relationship with him without her in your thoughts. Is he really handling all of this in a way that you are comfortable with? Is it possible that all of your angst about this is because of your trust issues with him and has little to do with her and her choices? What is it about all of this that's really bothering you? On the surface it seems like it's her and their issues with each other but it seems more likely that it's because of your own issues with him.

 

My last thought on this is... yes, you are right, right now she isn't going to respond well to you. But if you don't get in the middle of their issues and take the high road instead all of the time, eventually she may come to terms with it all and see that you are a decent person. Don't give her any further reasons to dislike you. Time does heal many wounds and it is possible that down the road she'll be more open to a civil relationship with you and your SO. She needs time for that to happen though. I've seen it happen... it isn't easy, but it is possible.

[minimariah]

But giving birth to one child does not make you disabled and unable to work, and using a kid as your golden ticket to be entitled to free money for life is in my opinion, wrong and irresponsible.

 

but she IS working -- she has a part time job that will become a full time one in August and the contract will last 2 years; after that, she will be forced to find another job or to renew that contract.

 

you're upset because you're focused on the worst case scenarios -- you think she's lying about that job becoming a full time one in August and you're stressed over the fact that it will be over in 2 years. because you really don't want your partner to deal with him more than strictly parent - businesslike.

 

& she isn't using her kid as a meal ticket -- she's using her ex husband because she probably feels entitled to that money.

 

I'm really trying to be aware of my part in this and work on fully healing.

 

and that's great. and hopefully, you're doing something about it... as in counseling, open conversations with your partner etc.

 

I want a normal relationship with this man. And for the record - I don't hate the BM.

 

no one said you hated her - but you very clearly dislike her.

 

and that's OK. you don't have to like her, you just have to show her respect as the mother & be civil with her. the child is 11, in 7 years -- you won't even have to hear her name ever again.

 

I would honestly love to have a better relationship with her, but given that I am the other woman her husband left her for, I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

 

many BSs have great relationships (everyone has their own definition of "great relationship" though) with the women they've been left for; your relationship with his ex wouldn't work in big part because your opinion of her isn't very high, because your jealousy issues aren't resolved and you see her as a threat -- but notice how you think that SHE would be the one who wouldn't be able to have a better relationship with you.

 

be real with yourself here - how comfortable would you be if she approached you with a friendship request?

 

dig and work through these issues. you clearly found a relationship that works well for you, so try to keep it -- don't push these problems under the rug and then have a meltdown the next time a problem appears (and it will). deal with it now.

Edited February 2, 2016 by minimariah

[LivingWaterPlease]

ET, you've gotten many perspectives here but I'll add mine in the event it might be helpful at all. Please try to consider another perspective that might not have occurred to you.

 

I was in your SO's ex wife's situation with children about the age of hers when my H left me for another woman. I had been a SAHM since I had given birth to the first one.

 

It was shattering to me when H left me, even without the financial implications of it, so much so that it was close to a year before I was able (emotionally) to work even part time.

 

If you have never had a husband you love very much leave you for another woman you can't imagine the debilitating pain this can cause you and how that pain can affect your ability to function.

 

However, I very much desired to become independent and have been able to fully do so and such may be the case with your man's BW, too. Just because I couldn't jump into a full time or even part time job right away was no indication of my intention of remaining dependent on my ex in any way.

 

Imo, your man's ex wife is doing very well to work part time after having been left just two months ago. And very very well to have secured a full time job to begin in August.

 

Regarding their son:

 

For children to have a SAHM and then suddenly to have their parents split up and have their mom go to work full time would be quite a change for them.

 

Divorce can be a huge adjustment for children, though I'm sure there are varying circumstances, temperaments, etc., in each case.

 

I wasn't comfortable leaving my 11-year-old child home alone. The few times I did even for a short time, my child told me later in life of having been frightened during those times.

 

My children were affected immensely when their dad left and it was in their best interest for their lives to change as gradually as possible so I devoted my life to making that happen.

 

These are some of the things that may be influencing the life and actions of your SO's ex wife. Imo, she needs time and understanding to adjust to her new normal. And her son may seem to be doing very well as my children did, too, to the outside observer. But, they were suffering terribly, though my H wasn't aware of it because he was so caught up in his "new life." He would never have admitted that they weren't doing well, had he even noticed it. But, as their mother I could see it clearly.

 

And yes, as another poster, WWIU?, pointed out, if you could forge a friendship with your SO's ex wife it would be to your advantage.

 

In my case this didn't happen and the jealousy and territorial nature of my ex H's new wife ended up ruining their marriage after a very short time. He left her during their third year together. (Technically the new wife was his second OW as he dumped the first OW he left me for within a few months, got a new one before the divorce was over and married her a few months after our divorce decree).

 

If you are having trust issues with your SO, pay close attention as you may be having them for a very good reason.

Edited February 2, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease

[sandylee1]

Livingwater ^^^^^

 

This is a fantastic perspective. Unless you've been there you can't imagine how difficult it is. Many people are blindsided with divorce and as you said find it extremely difficult to adjust to single life and being a single parent.

 

It's easy to say the child is doing ok...but they hide a lot to please their parents...especially the parent who left. The one they reside with sees it all.

 

I would say being patient is imperative.....this situation can't last forever..... his son will be getting older and in time the CS will end and there will be an expectation that she be more independent financially ...... she won't have to worry about being home after school..... their son will be busy with studies/friends /GFs.......basically he won't need her as much as he does now.

 

She'll also have had more time to get used to the situation....to have a new relationship....get her life on track and that kind of thing. The parent who resides with the child finds it harder to get into a new relationship...All these things will affect her state of mind and her feelings.

 

Just hang in there. Patience will test your relationship.

[Miss Clavel]

First of all, she is working part time. An 11 year old, generally speaking, is capable of spending 4 hours at home.

 

 

 

The ex wife needs to realize this is her life now. She MUST find a way to support herself because eventually alimony and even child support will end. .

i didn't leave any of the orphans anywhere, alone. not even at home. there is no way in hell you want anything to happen to that boy because sure as **** they will blame you. hello?

[Grammie]

I'm chiming in again. The reason why I posted was to get different perspectives on a matter that I was struggling with. Once you spend a prolonged amount of time dealing with something by yourself, things can get skewed, and fresh outside input can be very helpful. I do feel that the intention of my original post and the message I tried to convey were misunderstood by some. I also wrote the original post at a time of distress, which lasted for a few days, and writing it all out was therapeutic.

 

As evident from this thread, alimony and rights (is that the right word I'm looking for?) of a new partner in a relationship with a divorced man in general are divisive topics, where emotions run very high. Everyone has their own past that influences them and values that color their view on the issue. In my case, I'm a fan of independence and personal responsibility. And I think it should apply to everyone. People are responsible for their choices. Choosing to be a SAHM comes with a degree of risk, and refusing to find a job even after you were supposed to according to the agreement you had with your spouse, is in my opinion, a luxury that comes with a high price. I too, have seen single parents really struggle to make it work. I see the necessity for alimony in certain cases. In BW's case, not so much. I've seen a lot of speculation on here, so let me clarify again:

 

1. She refused to find a job after son entered school, it was a huge point of tension in their marriage.

 

2. She was able to support herself before the son was born.

 

3. All of their son's expenses are covered by SO.

 

4. Son attends an excellent school and stays in school every day until 4 pm.

 

5. Said school is walking distance from their home, grandparent's home AND her sister's home.

 

6. Son is healthy, doing great, no behavioral issues. BM is healthy and able to work.

 

In this case, I see no reason why she should be exempt from working just because "she's the mother of his children". So what? I get that SO has a past, I get that there'll always be some sort of a connection. But giving birth to one child does not make you disabled and unable to work, and using a kid as your golden ticket to be entitled to free money for life is in my opinion, wrong and irresponsible.

 

And yes, I am aware I'm still toting around the baggage of the time he lied to me. The OW element is hard to delete. Mistrust lingers, hypersensitivity is present, jealousy bares its teeth. Hence posting this thread. I'm really trying to be aware of my part in this and work on fully healing. I want a normal relationship with this man. And for the record - I don't hate the BM. Their son is a wonderful person and she must have been doing something right as a parent to raise him so well. They both did. I respect that, tremendously. I would honestly love to have a better relationship with her, but given that I am the other woman her husband left her for, I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

 

regarding the bold....please remember that he agreed to love her and be faithful to her, until death do they part....and he went back in that agreement. Stop getting hung up on HER....it's not your decision when and how she works....and I'd stop believing every word out of his mouth (regarding his prior marriage and "deals" they made). Get over your hatred of her...you have zero reason to hate her...she didn't do anything to YOU. Like so many have pointed out, working 10+ years ago doesn't equal the same as working today. Worry about your own job and finances. It's money, big deal. Eventfully kids grow up, child support ends and she will figure out her life. You don't need to concern yourself with it...you have enough on your plate. Let go of it and I promise, life will be so much better....I am divorced from my kids father, happily remarried to an amazing man I met 3 years after my divorce and became a part of a blended family. My H's ex wife is a leech who to this day can't hold a full time job and used the child support my H paid to go on vacations and buy material possessions. My H's kids came to us numerous times asking for more money as they had no groceries. All of our kids are full grown and we are grandparents I promise you, if you stay with him, 10 years from now, all of this will be a forgotten memory. My kids father rarely paid child support, rarely had visitation with his kids and was an utter pain in my behind for many years. Since our kids are grown, I haven't had any interaction with him - as in not a single phone call, email, text or conversation- in 4 years....pure bliss for me!

[Miss Clavel]

regarding the bold....please remember that he agreed to love her and be faithful to her, until death do they part....and he went back in that agreement. Stop getting hung up on HER....it's not your decision Let go of it and I promise, life will be so much better....I am divorced from my kids father, happily remarried to an amazing man I met 3 years after my divorce and became a part of a blended family. My H's ex wife is a leech who to this day can't hold a full time job and used the child support my H paid to go on vacations and buy material possessions. My H's kids came to us numerous times asking for more money as they had no groceries. All of our kids are full grown and we are grandparents I promise you, if you stay with him, 10 years from now, all of this will be a forgotten memory. My kids father rarely paid child support, rarely had visitation with his kids and was an utter pain in my behind for many years. Since our kids are grown, I haven't had any interaction with him - as in not a single phone call, email, text or conversation- in 4 years....pure bliss for me!

 

ITA. the only reason i ever talked/texted or saw mr. clavel after the divorce was because of the orphans.

 

i haven't seen him in two years because our oldest can drive, over to his place. none of us have met her, none of us care about her and i understand they broke up.

 

boo hoo.

 

i changed his name in my cell phone contacts to Mr. Clavel, because for some years it was all business between us, on my end.

[Miss Clavel]

Here's an example of testimony on how alimony affects families in today's day and age:

 

 

in my state, if the spouse is over fifty and the couple has been married more then ten years the spouse is entitled to alimony.

 

just like any valued employee, she gets retirement.

 

because, that's what been done to her, she's been retired, made redundant.

 

the law recognizes her service to her family and the age at which she's been tossed.

[cocorico]

in my state, if the spouse is over fifty and the couple has been married more then ten years the spouse is entitled to alimony.

 

just like any valued employee, she gets retirement.

 

because, that's what been done to her, she's been retired, made redundant.

 

the law recognizes her service to her family and the age at which she's been tossed.

 

What if she "resigns" - and files for D? In an employment setting, that would not qualify for redundancy payout.