How to Avoid the Relationship?

[candie13]

I don't believe in being a hypocrite. If he's not looking for anything serious, then he needs to be upfront with that and stick to it. It's not fair to expect the women he dates to tolerate the multi dating... But oh... He reserves the right to change his mind if it suits him. Sorry. Doesn't work that way. That's the advice you are offering... Is my interpretation.

 

People who aren't interested in a committed relationship need to avoid those who are. You don't have to adopt cats. Just don't pretend to be something you are not in the hopes of getting some time with someone who wouldn't give you the time of day if they knew the truth.

 

Him telling women there is the possibility of things changing down the road is confusing and manipulative. That's what jerks and liars do...

 

Stick to your own kind, is what I am saying.

no, sorry. Not saying since the very first moment you want or don't want children & marriage doesn't make one a liar or à jerk. Feeling that way is driven by your own expectations. Things are what they are, up to us to figure it out. What if the guy wants a RS but is multidating? just because someone wants smth doesn't mean the world owes it to them. If instead, they took the time to look around and assess reality themselves, they would feel empowered to say "this guy makes me laugh. I am having a good time. I am willing to take a chance at getting disappointed because I have a good feeling about him."

 

And then, if he stops calling or prefers someone else or doesn't want a RS... Tough luck. At least I've enjoys the experience because there is absolutely no way we can avoid disappointment or wasting time. We need to keep trying.

 

In the end, it's just a man, it's just a couple of dates, not solving world hunger. Plenty of other men & dates where that one came from. Sure, if he's cute & funny, it may sting a bit, but yeah... Such is Life. When we do finally meet the right guy, we may realize it was all worth while .

[candie13]

I am a grown arse woman and I wouldn't touch a guy with a ten foot pole who is not seriously looking for a relationship.

 

You don't owe anyone transparency? Seriously?!! I have no intention on going on 3 or 4 dates with a guy who is just looking to date around. In fact, I work very hard to avoid going on even ONE date with those guys. At least mr. Penis pic is being transparent, lol. What you are suggesting is sneaky as hell.

 

if some shytehead went on 3 or 4 or more dates with me before I found out he was just looking for something casual? Oh, yea.. I'd be trashing that guy to every woman I knew within ear shot.

 

Anyway, OP, you get the picture. Be upfront from day one if you don't want drama. Heck, this thread is starting to make me appreciate the penis pic, Netflix and chill guy. Lol. Never thought I'd see THAT.

girl... Change your state of mind or else you'll stay single for a long long time. Just sayin'... Ever thought you might put off any man - willing to have a RS or not - with your sense of entitlement?

[RedRobin]

@ RedRobin:

 

Take off your filters; I said exactly the same thing you did, so I really don't see why you've decided to *argue* with me.

 

The only difference in what we've said is that I acknowledge that some of the MOST adamant "I don't want to be in a relationship" types amongst us, end up finding someone we do want to be in a relationship with, when we least expect it and are least looking for it. And, I said, IF that happens, he needs to be equally upfront and honest about it. I did NOT say the woman is obligated to reciprocate nor accept it.

Again, the only difference between what we're saying is I believe people can and should grow and change, and you believe once they've said they don't want a relationship, they must die alone.

 

That's not what I am saying at all. I am just not interested in wasting my time with confused people... Or those who pretend to know what they want so that people like me will invest in them. If the OP wants to avoid headaches, he needs to avoid those who don't share his values... And make that clear from day one. Not wait for date x or after sex, or whenever it's convenient.

 

The OP is free to hang out with other non committal people. That's who he should be seeking out... Funny that lots of non committal people have a hard time with that. They like security for themselves, but can't offer it to others. seems lazy to me, but whatever. I just avoid those people and prefer they avoid me rather than try to suck me into their wishy washy ness... Which is what it sounds like some of the other posters here are recommending... Being cagey and sly rather than upfront.

[mrldii]

@ RedRobin:

 

Which part of the inclusion of MY words in MY posts "be upfront and honest about it", 'avoid those who DO want a relationship', and "do not act like you do [want a relationship]" are you reading as "be cagey", "be sly", "waste the time of women who do want a relationship" and "be dishonest"?

 

I absolutely agree with you: like-kind should stick with like-kind. I, too, would run as fast as my little legs could carry me from a man who announced he doesn't multi-date and would prefer to put all of his eggs in one basket and doesn't mind cramming a square peg into a round hole TO make it 'a fit'.

[RedRobin]

girl... Change your state of mind or else you'll stay single for a long long time. Just sayin'... Ever thought you might put off any man - willing to have a RS or not - with your sense of entitlement?

 

Girl, I have never had a hard time finding a relationship. Mostly because I don't put my hook in an empty pond. I don't cast my seeds in sterile ground.

 

There are plenty of men out there who are tired of the games and very much enjoy true intimacy and building something solid... They are not hard to find.

 

The OP isn't one of them right now. Which is fine. He will be swimming in a different pond than the ones I fish in. Let's hope.

[newmoon]

just be upfront, as many have suggested. you should not use the word 'dates,' as that implies something potentially leading to a relationship. try emphasizing words like friendship/companionship/not serious/activity partner/splitting costs and indicating that marriage and etc. are not things you are interested in. if you are seriously not looking, then you shouldn't be paying, or gifting, or doing anything that would otherwise indicate 'dating' and true romantic interest. you might be a tinder or fwb candidate

[candie13]

Girl, I have never had a hard time finding a relationship. Mostly because I don't put my hook in an empty pond. I don't cast my seeds in sterile ground.

 

There are plenty of men out there who are tired of the games and very much enjoy true intimacy and building something solid... They are not hard to find.

.

F*ck Really ? How exactly do you do it, you got a secret database or formula ?!?honestely, please share ! ´cause there ain't such thing as not "spreading your seeds on a sterile ground". Maybe i'm doing smth wrong & u have it all figured out!

 

Pls share, because i know a lot of women struggling, we all need help. My experience is: i might as well enjoy the dating experience because there is no secret of success formula, only time& fate & patience to separate the good from the bad.

 

Much appreciate your input - thread hijacking apart- apologies OP!

[RedRobin]

F*ck Really ? How exactly do you do it, you got a secret database or formula ?!?honestely, please share ! ´cause there ain't such thing as not "spreading your seeds on a sterile ground". Maybe i'm doing smth wrong & u have it all figured out!

 

Pls share, because i know a lot of women struggling, we all need help. My experience is: i might as well enjoy the dating experience because there is no secret of success formula, only time& fate & patience to separate the good from the bad.

 

Much appreciate your input - thread hijacking apart- apologies OP!

 

With all due respect, I don't think we thread jacked at all. A lot of people are confused about what being open and upfront looks like.

 

The OP said he wants to avoid drama, so hopefully the discussion will be enlightening.

 

I don't know about figuring it all out... But I am not ashamed in the slightest to tell any man I go on even one date with that I am seeking to build intimacy and trust... From day one. Most of those who aren't in that stage of their life, walk. The ones who stick around tend to be sincere.

 

Kinda like being pre approved for a loan before being shown the property. Me personally, I am not interested in the looky loos trying to kick the tires.

 

The OP is in the kicking tires stage of his life, which is fine. I agree with earlier posts that he doesn't call it dating and doesn't go on dates or do date like things. Sends the wrong message.

[candie13]

RR, I did this too. You know what I got ? A lot of fakers willing to play along and led me to believe we were on the same page - yes, I am talking about plain out lying only to date me, hoping for a shag.

 

Information is power and I am keeping my trap shut to see for myself and hear for myself what they want and how they are. Direct questions are directing the answer.

 

I bet you one thing: if a man tells a girl - any girl - he doesn't want a RS, she will leave asap. Irrelevant of what she really wants. This is why men will never ever tell or admit that they don't want a RS, because they want to be in the game and date and get to know women. And that is why asking questions and keeping your ears open pays off every time.

 

no direct questions. Listen to him talk about his friends' Relationship. His past relationship. His parents' marriage. His siblings' kids. Asking direct questions is the biggest no no I can ever recommend to any women, irrelevant of what it is that they want.

[xxoo]

just be upfront, as many have suggested. you should not use the word 'dates,' as that implies something potentially leading to a relationship.

 

I agree.

 

Use the words "hook up" or "hang out". Don't use the term "date" or "dating" at all.

 

A lot of women are going to move along, realizing that you only want sex. You want to screen for the women who also only want casual sex.

[SolG]

RR, I did this too. You know what I got ? A lot of fakers willing to play along and led me to believe we were on the same page - yes, I am talking about plain out lying only to date me, hoping for a shag.

 

Information is power and I am keeping my trap shut to see for myself and hear for myself what they want and how they are. Direct questions are directing the answer.

 

I bet you one thing: if a man tells a girl - any girl - he doesn't want a RS, she will leave asap. Irrelevant of what she really wants. This is why men will never ever tell or admit that they don't want a RS, because they want to be in the game and date and get to know women. And that is why asking questions and keeping your ears open pays off every time.

 

no direct questions. Listen to him talk about his friends' Relationship. His past relationship. His parents' marriage. His siblings' kids. Asking direct questions is the biggest no no I can ever recommend to any women, irrelevant of what it is that they want.

 

I'm the opposite. I like direct as early as possible--sometimes even before we meet in person--and it works fine for me :-) I am only interested in casual myself at this stage and appreciate a guy that cuts through the bs and lays his cards on the table upfront.

 

I personally like the, 'You sound great! I'm actually happily single at the moment and only interested in something casual. Would you be up to meet and see if we have the chemistry to hang out and have some fun?' type approach. Particularly accompanied by some quick witted banter and intelligent chat. Not overtly sexual, but with an edge. Then a meet for coffee or drinks to see if there's attraction IRL and take it from there.

 

I find direct just makes it easier to cut to the chase when you're on the same page as quickly as possible. Then you can focus on the fun--the sex and the company--without having to worry about what each other's expectations are. Then it doesn't really matter how often you chat or text... Because you're all clear on the parameters.

 

I see my two lovers about once each every ten days or so, but we communicate all the time inbetween. Casual doesn't have to be cold or uncaring. Quite the contrary IMO; you should at least like, enjoy the company of, and respect anyone you have sex with.

 

So OP, I'm firmly in the direct and upfront early camp.

[preraph]

I think it has to go on your profile or be said before your first date so you don't make a mess.

[candie13]

I'm the opposite. I like direct as early as possible--sometimes even before we meet in person--and it works fine for me :-) I am only interested in casual myself at this stage and appreciate a guy that cuts through the bs and lays his cards on the table upfront.

 

I personally like the, 'You sound great! I'm actually happily single at the moment and only interested in something casual. Would you be up to meet and see if we have the chemistry to hang out and have some fun?' type approach. Particularly accompanied by some quick witted banter and intelligent chat. Not overtly sexual, but with an edge. Then a meet for coffee or drinks to see if there's attraction IRL and take it from there.

 

I find direct just makes it easier to cut to the chase when you're on the same page as quickly as possible. Then you can focus on the fun--the sex and the company--without having to worry about what each other's expectations are. Then it doesn't really matter how often you chat or text... Because you're all clear on the parameters.

 

I see my two lovers about once each every ten days or so, but we communicate all the time inbetween. Casual doesn't have to be cold or uncaring. Quite the contrary IMO; you should at least like, enjoy the company of, and respect anyone you have sex with.

 

So OP, I'm firmly in the direct and upfront early camp.

things change based on what horses you're riding. And if you're a man or à woman. Glad it works for you ! Edited January 24, 2016 by candie13

[RedRobin]

RR, I did this too. You know what I got ? A lot of fakers willing to play along and led me to believe we were on the same page - yes, I am talking about plain out lying only to date me, hoping for a shag.

 

Information is power and I am keeping my trap shut to see for myself and hear for myself what they want and how they are. Direct questions are directing the answer.

 

I bet you one thing: if a man tells a girl - any girl - he doesn't want a RS, she will leave asap. Irrelevant of what she really wants. This is why men will never ever tell or admit that they don't want a RS, because they want to be in the game and date and get to know women. And that is why asking questions and keeping your ears open pays off every time.

 

no direct questions. Listen to him talk about his friends' Relationship. His past relationship. His parents' marriage. His siblings' kids. Asking direct questions is the biggest no no I can ever recommend to any women, irrelevant of what it is that they want.

 

I hear you. I've had guys tell me the same thing. I just don't sleep with them. If they don't have a history that backs up what they claim to be looking for, if they aren't acting in a serious manner, then it's no go. The liars can certainly be persistent, but I've never come across one of those who didn't get bored pretty quick or find some other shiny object to chase.

 

all that said, I still think it's better to be upfront. Most guys who are just looking for something casual will move on. I was commenting in another thread about some outliers who stood out. Mostly because of their friends unwillingness to come clean on the guys history and other details I'd need to make an informed decision.

 

In those cases, I've just learned to walk away. If you are having any doubts whatsoever about a man's intentions, just end it... Is what I do. Doesn't matter what comes out of their mouth.

[bachdude]

Whats an effective way to say to someone that you want to date but not get into anything serious?

 

I just got out of a relationship and the last thing I want to do is to jump into another. There are a few women that I am flirting / chatting with but I want to take time for me and keep things fun and light. I dont want to be trapped into anything at the same time telling them you just want to have fun with them can make you sound like a douche.

 

How about,

 

"I want to date but not get into anything serious. I just got out of a relationship and the last thing I need is to jump into another"?

[Rejected Rosebud]

- after establishing a certain pace of the RS and having some great fun date, you can have "the talk" and tell them you don't seek anything heavy and serious - after date 3 or 4.

Why would you establish a pace in a relationship and then wait 3 or 4 dates to tell her you're NOT looking for a relationship? How sleazy would that be??

 

Please make it perfectly clear up front what you are and aren't looking for! She is a grown up and she should be responsible for herself, knowing that - but still it is the stand-up thing to do for you to stop seeing her if you can tell she's getting attached.

[Rejected Rosebud]

 

I'd be soooo turned off if a guy immédiately told me if he wants or doesn't want a RS, because he wouldn't know ME. I'd feel like a placeholder.

You'd be happier if he didn't tell you there was NO WAY you two would be in a relationship - yet kept on dating you?

 

I don't think that the OP should be going on 3 - 4 dates with any woman because, like xxoo said, then they ARE in a relationship already and things will be sticky. Unless it was already defined as FWB only type thing. Which needs to happen sometime between the first and second date.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Why say anything at all? There is another thread on here right now talking about dumb crap men say that ruin their chances of getting laid.

I kind of got the feeling he was hoping to avoid being a douche.

[candie13]

I hear you. I've had guys tell me the same thing. I just don't sleep with them. If they don't have a history that backs up what they claim to be looking for, if they aren't acting in a serious manner, then it's no go. The liars can certainly be persistent, but I've never come across one of those who didn't get bored pretty quick or find some other shiny object to chase.

 

all that said, I still think it's better to be upfront. Most guys who are just looking for something casual will move on. I was commenting in another thread about some outliers who stood out. Mostly because of their friends unwillingness to come clean on the guys history and other details I'd need to make an informed decision.

 

In those cases, I've just learned to walk away. If you are having any doubts whatsoever about a man's intentions, just end it... Is what I do. Doesn't matter what comes out of their mouth.

i said what i wanted straight up - marriage & children. Got some grey answers that i honestly didn't pick up on. Mildly touched the subject month 3-4. All cool on all fronts. He takes me to meet his dad & half brothers, long week-end in PAris, we buy tickets to go visit my home town for a long weekend, get flight tickets to go on holidays - month 5-6. 4-5 days before going with me to meet my folks, he finally admits he doesn't think he ever wants to get married. But def wants children - like in a year... Then he changed his story to - perhaps he might marry in 4-5 years. Then he admitted that there is no way he wants to marry before having children. I didn't walk, I ran.

 

Bottom line: mouth shut about what I want. What he wants, how ready he is, that's what's most important. And with time, i figure It out. And i am not using sex as a weapon either. If i see the man is serious and i feel there is a connection, i Will have a RS and have sex with him while still figuring out if he wants marriage and children - generally speaking, and if I see him as a potential candidate.

 

If i don't dump my expectations on him & say I am still figuring things out, the guy Will feel a lot more in confidence & comfortable to tell me what he really feels, what he really thinks, without feeling judged - and without giving me the corporate answer "yes, i want marriage & children" only to date me for a while, hoping I fall inlove with him and not leave when he admits to how he really feels.

 

Just my experience. Feel free to do exactly what makes you feel comfortable and in Line with your values. My goal is not to date à man who says he wants marriage & children. My goal is to find a man who actually wants them.

[candie13]

You'd be happier if he didn't tell you there was NO WAY you two would be in a relationship - yet kept on dating you?

 

I don't think that the OP should be going on 3 - 4 dates with any woman because, like xxoo said, then they ARE in a relationship already and things will be sticky. Unless it was already defined as FWB only type thing. Which needs to happen sometime between the first and second date.

. He can't tell me he doesnt want a RS and still date me because I would not be around anymore after that.

 

3-4 dates is NOT a RS. Dating for 3 months is NOT a RS unless he talked to me about exclusivity and called me his girlfriend, introduced me to his best friends etc etc. Until then, it's dating - with the assumption he sees & sleeps with other women. Until he calls me his gf & we talk exclusivity, I see the man knowing perfectly he might prefer another woman and dump me asap. Dating is being in a limbo.

[Rejected Rosebud]

What he wants, how ready he is, that's what's most important.

 

But if he KNOWS he doesn't want to have a relationship, but just to have casual fun, WHY would you prefer to find this out on the 4th date rather than sooner?? :eek:

[candie13]

Men often get called a douche when we say the wrong thing.

 

My advice stands. Spend time with women, and if they like you, sex will happen. I don't have any women over here calling me a douche for any time I spent with them.

 

Exactly !!! Spending Time does not equal a RS. Having sex does not equal a RS. Him asking You To be exclusive and be in a RS with him is. Good post, enigma!

 

I don't like this, but this is reality. It's how things are. You can call these men douches, but that won't change the reality. So You either learn from this ... or consider you're in a RS after 3-4 dates... I guarantee, if You do The later, you'll have some huge surprises down The road.

[Rejected Rosebud]

. He can't tell me he doesnt want a RS and still date me because I would not be around anymore after that.

Why would you prefer to have those 4 dates without knowing that there is NO WAY he's interested in anything deep, though? I'd be so thankful for him to tell me so I would get the opportunity to NOT waste my time!

 

Why would you want 3 - 4 dates with a guy who is 100% sure he's not going to be in a relationship with you?

 

3-4 dates is NOT a RS. Dating for 3 months is NOT a RS unless he talked to me about exclusivity and called me his girlfriend,

I see how you are thinking, but still - why waste 3 - 4 dates with a guy who already KNOWS he only wants casual??

 

Anyway, this is about the OP and from my own POV you are a douche if you don't tell the women you are planning to date that this is just for the moment and there is NO FUTURE. And put it on your dating profile so that relationship oriented women have a fair chance to cut their losses. And try not to date any woman more than a couple of times until or unless you BOTH are happy to have a casual thing.

[candie13]

But if he KNOWS he doesn't want to have a relationship, but just to have casual fun, WHY would you prefer to find this out on the 4th date rather than sooner?? :eek:

because he wants to have sex, obviously. And because some women think so highly of their bedroom skills that they think they can push him in a RS after sex.

 

What he wants is irrelevant, because in time, it becomes clear. If You get The "Netflix & chill" invite... You know you're on his potential **** buddy list. Men communicate very very strongly with their actions, at The beginning. If they dig You & they stick around despite sex, they may even use words to define the RS .

[candie13]

Why would you prefer to have those 4 dates without knowing that there is NO WAY he's interested in anything deep, though? I'd be so thankful for him to tell me so I would get the opportunity to NOT waste my time!

 

Why would you want 3 - 4 dates with a guy who is 100% sure he's not going to be in a relationship with you?

 

I see how you are thinking, but still - why waste 3 - 4 dates with a guy who already KNOWS he only wants casual??

 

Anyway, this is about the OP and from my own POV you are a douche if you don't tell the women you are planning to date that this is just for the moment and there is NO FUTURE. And put it on your dating profile so that relationship oriented women have a fair chance to cut their losses. And try not to date any woman more than a couple of times until or unless you BOTH are happy to have a casual thing.

 

Oh, RR, i don't want to spend 3-4 dates with men who don't want RS. But it's the only way of finding out. This is why weeding before The dates & conversation during The dates is so important. you can't know in advance. You can't read minds. And not spilling The beans is extremely extremely important because you get to find out the TRUTH. I want to shoot myself for having told my ex i wanted marriage & kids. I should have shut up & encourage him to talk to me about It. I would have wasted 2-3 months, NOT 6. Lesson learnt.