Gf's pressure to propose. What do I do?

[StandsOnWater]

Wondered about this too. You were relatively quick to accept her contributions to your life and family, knowing also what her expectations were. Your concerns about her and marriage don't seem to preclude her presently playing the role of wife and stepmom, down to the cooking, cleaning and child-rearing.

 

I get she entered into this relationship voluntarily and with eyes wide open. But I can't help but feel you've used her vulnerability and love for you - and your kids - to place her in the role of unpaid intern. If she's not going to get the job, let her go. Would be even more unfair to expect her to do this for years to come...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Well for what it's worth, we both cook and clean etc. I'm obviously more involved with all the things that entail my kids because I'm their parent. I gave her several "outs" during the relationship where I told her that if this is not what you want to deal with than you can walk away, no hard feelings. She assured me that this is in fact what she wants.

 

I don't intend to have her as an intern forever but I wanted her to live with us so she can see the reality of life with kids. The middle of the night wake ups, the temper tantrums, sibling fights, homework after school and all the things that I doubt she's even considered.

[MJJean]

She has always been very "if it happens it happens" type of person when it comes to having a baby. She doesn't fee the need to have one of her own to feel complete. It's funny because when we first met she was pretty vocal about never getting pregnant and that kids kind of freaked her out. Now she's changing her mind and when she's around my friends newborn she can't keep her hands off him and I think she kinda is starting to feel like maybe that's what she wants.

 

She's at the point in her life where it's pretty much now or never.

 

When you're a woman in your 20's, you figure you have years to decide if you want to have children. It's easy to say "if it happens, it happens".

 

When you're in your 30's, you start to realize that the clock is ticking.

 

Women are medically classified as "high risk" and their pregnancies labeled "geriatric pregnancy" at 35. This is also when it becomes harder for a woman to get pregnant, her chance of miscarriage begins to increase, and her chances for maternal-fetal complications rises.

 

Given that it often takes months, if not longer, for a woman who is trying to conceive a child to actually get pregnant. And that she needs time to gestate and recover from the birth before trying for another child, you can see that your GF really is reaching the point where she needs to either make it happen or accept she may not have children at all.

 

You need to be sensitive to her situation. If you aren't sure, let her know so she can make an informed choice.

 

Btw, I met my H in October, by February (when he moved in with me and my kids) we were making plans to get married. That was 16 years ago. I couldn't be happier. I have a few friends who also met and married or had firm plans to marry in under a year that have had successful marriages. Sometimes, you really do "just know".

[StandsOnWater]

I really, really don't think you should get married if you aren't sure that's really what you want to do, and you are NOT sure that's what you want to do. Did you already forget what happened last time? Wanna do it again?

 

 

Not even two years together is really not long enough to get married, in my opinion. I heard a psychologist say (and I believe it) that it takes three years to really know someone, the side they don't want you to see as well as the side they do want you to see. That's enough time to see them in many different situations and so on.

 

 

I think you really should not have had her move in, in the first place. Women typically do not think of that as just something convenient or really as no ties and no promises. They think of it as practically an engagement if not more. They won't usually say that because they are trying to get what they want, not scare you off. So, her lease being up was nowhere near a good enough reason.

 

 

Why do I get the feeling you're kind of a sitting duck here, lol?

 

 

Anyway, you and she are in different stages of life. She hasn't been married or had kids yet. As you say, she seemed more like a 21 year old when you met. If I were you, I'd think long and hard about starting another set with another baby mama unless you are rich or don't want to do anything else but raise kids for a very long time. And let me tell you something, the "I don't want to have kids" thing is usually about as solid as when they want to move in with you and say "I don't want to get married." LOL!

 

 

If you marry her, you'll feel like a big mean jack-ass if you don't let her have kids when she doesn't have any!

 

 

So, do YOU really want to go back and do the whole newborn thing, kiddie birthday party thing and so on infinitum, all over again? I mean, ever? How would that make the children you already have feel? How many times does anyone need to go through that?

 

 

Come to think of it, you should probably go get a vasectomy right now.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not sure I'd be all that flattered to have a woman who is starting to hear that baby clock go tick tock say I'm the only one she's ever wanted. Could be, but I doubt it. Especially when she hints that if you don't fork over the ring soon, she may not really want you that much at all anymore.

 

 

If you do break up (and in my opinion, you should. If you keep going at this rate you'll have a half dozen sets of kids and baby mamas by the time it's all done. Slow down and think about your whole future, not just this one woman you've been with for less than two years and what she wants).

 

 

Anyway if I were you, and you do break up, I'd seriously consider sticking with women who are in the same stage of life as you are.

 

 

When you say women don't want guys with kids, that sounds like you are going for the younger women who don't have their own kids yet. I'm sure most of the ones without kids don't prefer someone with kids.

 

 

But most of the ones your age don't feel that way because by then nearly everyone has kids, including tem. If you went for women a few years older than you rather than younger, it's likely their kids would be grown and that bullet would be dodged completely. Just think, all that extra time and money would be for you! When you try to go back in time, this IS the kind of pressure you'll get over and over again.

 

 

The divorce rate for second marriages is even higher than for first marriages. Think carefully. Also, don't string her along because she deserves those same experiences you already got. If you don't want to marry her soon (and it really does not sound like you do), you need to let her go so she has time to get to know someone else properly and have her kids before that fertility drops. That's only fair.

 

 

So, your question about if it really mattered that you weren't eager to get married again. It just sounds like you are not valuing your own wishes enough. Best wishes to you, either way!

 

I really appreciate all your input. I'm a little confused though in that you seem to say that I should know she's the one by now and also say 2 years is not enough time to know someone. Maybe I misinterpreted.

 

My kids now are 5 and 9yo, I would have no problem doing the whole newborn thing again if the situation was right. I do miss having that "complete family" thing. I split my kids 50/50 with my ex.

 

I dated all ages of women in my "learning period" after the divorce. From early 20's to almost 40. My desire to possibly start a family again tended to steer me to younger women,late 20's seemed like a good spot for me. Girls were more mature and starting to think about getting serious. Many of the people I dated had kids from a previous relationship and I liked that aspect.

 

Honestly, I am certain that she's indifferent about the baby thing. When I met her she didn't like holding babies, it freaked her out. The whole idea of pregnancy was very scary. She has a very "if it's meant to be" attitude about it. And I believe her. I think she just wants to be married.

[xxoo]

 

I don't intend to have her as an intern forever but I wanted her to live with us so she can see the reality of life with kids. The middle of the night wake ups, the temper tantrums, sibling fights, homework after school and all the things that I doubt she's even considered.

 

It's been 5 months. She's seen it. She wants to be part of this family.

 

I do think that 1.5 years is too soon to marry, but that's what an engagement period is for. It's not too soon to strongly want to marry someone. You should not waste her time if you don't want to marry her after she's moved in and is helping you in the daily care of your family.

[BettyDraper]

It's been 5 months. She's seen it. She wants to be part of this family.

 

I do think that 1.5 years is too soon to marry, but that's what an engagement period is for. It's not too soon to strongly want to marry someone. You should not waste her time if you don't want to marry her after she's moved in and is helping you in the daily care of your family.

 

This is why I asked why it is okay to move her in and receive wife privilges without marriage. A woman who just wanted to be married would not choose to be a stepmother when she has no kids. The OP's girlfriend is obviously in love. 1.5 is certainly not too soon to marry and they can always be engaged for another year. My husband proposed in under 2 years and within months of moving in together.

 

I have sympathy for the OP being more cautious since he has been divorced and there are kids involved. I think marriage is very serious and it makes sense that the OP doesn't want to just jump in. At the same time, if his girlfriend is good enough to share a home and help take care of the OP's kids, I wonder why she isn't good enough to be his wife.

 

I have dated two men with children and I would never do it again. Children complicate a relationship and cause friction. They have to come first and that means that a single parent will often have very little time or emotional resources to be in a relationship. Kids can be very manipulative when they don't want to lose their parent; they will fabricate reasons to get their parent to cancel dates. I once went on three dates with a very nice single dad. He told his kids about me and they thought that I was too young for him because of a 10 year age difference. He stopped seeing me because of his children. I read a personal ad by a single dad; he was too poor to date because all of his extra money went to his children after bills were paid. What woman would want to date someone who couldn't take her out?

 

For someone without children, kids are baggage in a relationship. It takes a very special childless woman to become a stepmother figure. The OP may want to think about that.

[StandsOnWater]

This is why I asked why it is okay to move her in and receive wife privilges without marriage. A woman who just wanted to be married would not choose to be a stepmother when she has no kids. The OP's girlfriend is obviously in love. 1.5 is certainly not too soon to marry and they can always be engaged for another year. My husband proposed in under 2 years and within months of moving in together.

 

I have sympathy for the OP being more cautious since he has been divorced and there are kids involved. I think marriage is very serious and it makes sense that the OP doesn't want to just jump in. At the same time, if his girlfriend is good enough to share a home and help take care of the OP's kids, I wonder why she isn't good enough to be his wife.

 

I have dated two men with children and I would never do it again. Children complicate a relationship and cause friction. They have to come first and that means that a single parent will often have very little time or emotional resources to be in a relationship. Kids can be very manipulative when they don't want to lose their parent; they will fabricate reasons to get their parent to cancel dates. I once went on three dates with a very nice single dad. He told his kids about me and they thought that I was too young for him because of a 10 year age difference. He stopped seeing me because of his children. I read a personal ad by a single dad; he was too poor to date because all of his extra money went to his children after bills were paid. What woman would want to date someone who couldn't take her out?

 

For someone without children, kids are baggage in a relationship. It takes a very special childless woman to become a stepmother figure. The OP may want to think about that.

 

 

I get what your saying but I only have my kids half the time, I make pretty good money and my kids love her overall.

 

I have carved out room in my life and heart for her and I think she appreciates how hard that is for a single parent. She says I've treated her better than anyone she's ever been with(took her to Jamaica last summer just the 2 of us etc). So it's not like I'm some jerk who's using this girl as a slave while I hold this ring over her head. I am sensing some people projecting on me their own frustrations with men. Trust me she gets a lot out of this relationship as well and it's not at all one sided.

 

I do realize that it is rare to find a woman to make that sacrifice. I know from experience. It seems men are more willing to take on kids that aren't they're own than women for whatever reason. I just want to be sure I'm making the right decision, I want to do right by her, my kids and myself to have a happy future. That's all I want.

[lucy_in_disguise]

I think its fair for her to ask you for your timeline. The issue I have with your stance is that you are very vague about what it would take for you to decide to want to marry her. You indicate you think its "too soon" and that you would like the relationship to get to that point "naturally" but its not clear what information you feel you are missing to make a decision. Its not fair for her to wait indrfinitely for you to feel it. If marriage is important to her she deserves the chance to find someone who wants that with her and can give her a concrete timeline.

[BettyDraper]

I get what your saying but I only have my kids half the time, I make pretty good money and my kids love her overall.

 

I have carved out room in my life and heart for her and I think she appreciates how hard that is for a single parent. She says I've treated her better than anyone she's ever been with(took her to Jamaica last summer just the 2 of us etc). So it's not like I'm some jerk who's using this girl as a slave while I hold this ring over her head. I am sensing some people projecting on me their own frustrations with men. Trust me she gets a lot out of this relationship as well and it's not at all one sided.

 

I do realize that it is rare to find a woman to make that sacrifice. I know from experience. It seems men are more willing to take on kids that aren't they're own than women for whatever reason. I just want to be sure I'm making the right decision, I want to do right by her, my kids and myself to have a happy future. That's all I want.

 

I can appreciate you wanting to make the right decision for you and your children. Marriage is not a small matter and you don't want to end up divorced again. Just because you only have your kids half the time, it doesn't make your girlfriend's kindness any less meaningful. The story about the broke single dad wasn't directed at you.

 

I'm glad that you treat your girlfriend well. Sounds like she deserves it.

My question about wife privilges without marriage stemmed from the fact that your girlfriend is essentially your wife without the ceremony and titles. I don't think that you treat your girlfriend like a slave but I think her sacrifice and willingness to change are signals that she is wife material. Of course, I don't advocate anyone getting married just because he feels obligated.

 

Regardless of what she gets out of your relationship, we can't ignore the fact that she is put in far more than many childless women would have. She moved in with you despite being unmarried even though she wants to be your wife. You can take her on 10,000 vacations and that still wouldn't be enough to thank your girlfriend for embracing your children as well as waiting for you to commit.

 

I think you and your girlfriend should have agreed on whether or not to get married before she moved in.

[sandylee1]

If you're not ready for marriage..then simply tell her....but be prepared for her to walk. Biology works against woman and she doesn't want to waste time. You should not feel pressured into marriage and by the same token..she can choose to leave if you're not ready.

 

I was kind of in a similar situation with my now husband. When he wanted us to buy a house...but no mention of marriage any time soon.... I told him that's not what I wanted and if he wasn't sure...We could take a break. I'm not the kind to pressure a guy..... I was prepared for it to be over and would have moved on.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have carved out room in my life and heart for her and I think she appreciates how hard that is for a single parent. She says I've treated her better than anyone she's ever been with(took her to Jamaica last summer just the 2 of us etc). So it's not like I'm some jerk who's using this girl as a slave while I hold this ring over her head. I am sensing some people projecting on me their own frustrations with men. Trust me she gets a lot out of this relationship as well and it's not at all one sided.

 

Don't think anyone has accused you of being a white slaver.

 

But part of loving someone is considering what's best for them, including not using their good intentions and vulnerabilities against them in order to fulfill your needs. Even you'll have to recognize she has much potential to get hurt here.

 

You've posted quite a bit in this thread about your concerns, fears and thoughts about what might be best for you. I haven't seen any speculation on your part about what might be best for her ?

 

Shouldn't that cross your mind?

 

Mr. Lucky

[amaysngrace]

I don't intend to have her as an intern forever but I wanted her to live with us so she can see the reality of life with kids. The middle of the night wake ups, the temper tantrums, sibling fights, homework after school and all the things that I doubt she's even considered.

 

Did you and your exW consider all these things before you procreated? Doubt it.

 

Tell her that you don't want to get married to her and let her go find someone who does. You're being unnecessarily hard on her, harder than you were on yourself and even on your exW.

 

It's as if your exW sinned and this new one has to pay for those sins.

 

If you can't get over your own crap you need to let her go. She sees a future and you see a past....one that she was never even a part of.

 

Quit being selfish and let her go.

[Miss Peach]

FWIW I am divorced myself with kids so I understand your situation...

 

The biggest hesitation I have with men in your situation in general is whether they can move past their divorce baggage and consider marriage again. Many divorced people cannot put themselves in that vulnerability again.

 

I know for me, no matter how much I love a man I wouldn't be happy dating, playing house, etc. endlessly. There would have to be an expiration date. If there was no progressions whatsoever I would start to feel uneasy. It would build resentment. I would leave.

 

For me the first several years post divorce I would never have thought I would even consider marriage again. But as I took care of my baggage I realized I would like it again one day. The difference is I care more about WHO I marry than BEING married again.

 

If she changed her life, is being a great team, etc. then I would think she wants to become officially part of your family. Women often look at moving in as a step towards marriage so it isn't far fetched for her to be asking questions. Especially at her age and if she is thinking she might want a child of her own I don't think that's an unreasonable question almost 2 years in. I am done with kids and even I would have that question at that point regardless. If I didn't want to be married or see the guy as a potential husband I wouldn't be with him two years in.

 

I think it's fair of you to determine your side of this. Even if you don't want to get married NOW, do you see her as your wife?

[devilish innocent]

I suggest a compromise. It's not fair for her to expect you to be ready by tomorrow. On the other hand, it's not fair for you to expect her to wait indefinitely. If you just wait until you magically feel sure one day, that day may never come. Set a timeline with her, maybe in six months or so. Agree that you will give her a final answer by that point if she will promise to wait until then. That will give you a chance to think things over without feeling the immediate pressure to make a decision. If you use that time wisely to question what you want, then you will be more confident by the time the deadline arrives. Good luck!

[Httm]

I can appreciate you wanting to make the right decision for you and your children. Marriage is not a small matter and you don't want to end up divorced again. Just because you only have your kids half the time, it doesn't make your girlfriend's kindness any less meaningful. The story about the broke single dad wasn't directed at you.

 

I'm glad that you treat your girlfriend well. Sounds like she deserves it.

My question about wife privilges without marriage stemmed from the fact that your girlfriend is essentially your wife without the ceremony and titles. I don't think that you treat your girlfriend like a slave but I think her sacrifice and willingness to change are signals that she is wife material. Of course, I don't advocate anyone getting married just because he feels obligated.

 

Regardless of what she gets out of your relationship, we can't ignore the fact that she is put in far more than many childless women would have. She moved in with you despite being unmarried even though she wants to be your wife. You can take her on 10,000 vacations and that still wouldn't be enough to thank your girlfriend for embracing your children as well as waiting for you to commit.

 

I think you and your girlfriend should have agreed on whether or not to get married before she moved in.

 

Someone needs to be rewarded for enjoying a relationship with someone with kids? What on earth? And 10k vacations wouldn't be enough of a reward? What in the world? What does that even mean.

 

Also, not everyone has archaic notions of cohabitation and necessity of marriage. Marriage is simply a financial contract where the wealthier gifts over half of everything they have, and if you end the relationship, you need to spend time, money, and emotional entanglement in court for potentially long periods of time. Marriage should never change the nature of a relatio ship outside of these legal ramifications.

[sandylee1]

I suggest a compromise. It's not fair for her to expect you to be ready by tomorrow. On the other hand, it's not fair for you to expect her to wait indefinitely. If you just wait until you magically feel sure one day, that day may never come. Set a timeline with her, maybe in six months or so. Agree that you will give her a final answer by that point if she will promise to wait until then. That will give you a chance to think things over without feeling the immediate pressure to make a decision. If you use that time wisely to question what you want, then you will be more confident by the time the deadline arrives. Good luck!

 

If a man said this to me....6 months then I'll let you know..it would tell me he didn't love me enough and wasn't able to commit and I would end the relationship. Sounds too much like begging for marriage.

[BettyDraper]

If a man said this to me....6 months then I'll let you know..it would tell me he didn't love me enough and wasn't able to commit and I would end the relationship. Sounds too much like begging for marriage.

 

I agree. No sense in wasting time with someone who doesn't have the same goals.

[SaveYourHeart]

You don't owe her a proposal, and my advise would be to trust your gut. When you're ready, then make the leap, not before. If she leaves you because you weren't ready to get hitched after 2 years, she's not a keeper.

[SaveYourHeart]

To be honest, if I were able to go back in time, I would have spent a lot more time dating and focusing on the relationship rather than planning for a wedding. I can honestly say I regret getting married so quickly. I'm not saying I want a divorce or that I want to leave my hubby, but something changes when you get married and it's not always good.

[sandylee1]

You don't owe her a proposal, and my advise would be to trust your gut. When you're ready, then make the leap, not before. If she leaves you because you weren't ready to get hitched after 2 years, she's not a keeper.

 

The funny (or not so funny) thing is..I've seen a few guys on here full of regret when the ex gets married to someone else....after he was not sure about marriage. That's the chance you take.

 

I do understand the hesitance for the OP as this would be a second marriage....that's why I'd never have dated a divorcee with kids ....no offence..but it's because of this very reason..they are ultra cautious and guarded.

[GunslingerRoland]

I try to explain that we should take our time, that I rushed into my last marriage and it didn't work out.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how rushed your first marriage was, but after a year and a half together as adults, you should have an idea if you want to spend the rest of your life with this person or not.

 

 

I can't tell you if this marriage would work out, but if you marry her and it fails, it isn't because of rushing.

[BlueIris]

I agree with those saying that you should tell her so she can move on. Time is short for her because of her fertility limitations. Also, she has already been acting as wife and mom (stepmom), but without marriage.

 

Moving in and caring for someone else’s children is impressive and not at all easy. I agree with Betty Draper that you shouldn’t have moved her into your family without the intention and plan to marry. But heaven knows we make mistakes sometimes. It will be hard on her to move out and move on, but it will also be hard on your children.

 

I cringed when you said this: “The relationship has moved fast mainly because that's what she's wanted. … “ That's a shirking of responsibility since you are a dad and had the overriding responsibility to do what was best for your kids. When you went on to talk about how immature your gf/stbx was, I saw a disconnect in your not taking responsibility for pacing your relationship that affected your children. I'd pull back on the judgment of her.

 

But overall, it doesn’t sound at all as though you want to marry and live the rest of your life with her, so let her go and then help your children transition and handle their sadness or confusion compassionately.

[BettyDraper]

I agree with those saying that you should tell her so she can move on. Time is short for her because of her fertility limitations. Also, she has already been acting as wife and mom (stepmom), but without marriage.

 

Moving in and caring for someone else’s children is impressive and not at all easy. I agree with Betty Draper that you shouldn’t have moved her into your family without the intention and plan to marry. But heaven knows we make mistakes sometimes. It will be hard on her to move out and move on, but it will also be hard on your children.

 

I cringed when you said this: “The relationship has moved fast mainly because that's what she's wanted. … “ That's a shirking of responsibility since you are a dad and had the overriding responsibility to do what was best for your kids. When you went on to talk about how immature your gf/stbx was, I saw a disconnect in your not taking responsibility for pacing your relationship that affected your children. I'd pull back on the judgment of her.

 

But overall, it doesn’t sound at all as though you want to marry and live the rest of your life with her, so let her go and then help your children transition and handle their sadness or confusion compassionately.

 

No, I said that they should have agreed on a timeline for marriage before moving in. If the OP and his girlfriend were both in agreement about not getting married, this thread would not exist because there wouldn't be a problem.

 

Not everyone believes in marriage and that's okay. I just have a problem with people who denounce and devalue marriage just because they don't see the need for it or they have been divorced.

[BlueIris]

No, I said that they should have agreed on a timeline for marriage before moving in. If the OP and his girlfriend were both in agreement about not getting married, this thread would not exist because there wouldn't be a problem.

 

Not everyone believes in marriage and that's okay. I just have a problem with people who denounce and devalue marriage just because they don't see the need for it or they have been divorced.

 

Ah, I see. Good correction.

[bathtub-row]

Then why on earth did you agree to her living with you?? I don't understand that at all. You might as well be married if she moved in with you. At this point, you're just sending mixed signals.

[BettyDraper]

Then why on earth did you agree to her living with you?? I don't understand that at all. You might as well be married if she moved in with you. At this point, you're just sending mixed signals.

 

I agree with this to some extent. Cohabitation is very similar to marriage except there is no legal commitment or public acknowledgement of being a married couple.

 

I wonder if the OP wanted the convenience of having a wife without being married. Either that or he wanted to test out marriage with his girlfriend.