jen1447 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The "biological thing" is not nonsense. Look at the animal kingdom and you see numerous examples of species where the biggest, strongest male gets his choice of the available females because they desire the male that offers the most protection. It makes sense that humanity's ancestors would follow the same type of procedure regarding mate selection. Of course, we've evolved quite a bit since then and choosing a partner isn't so simplistic. But you're crazy if you think there's no biological explanation for why women often prefer taller men. Oh give me a break with that nonsense. I'll say it yet again if it was biological than every single woman in the world would want a tall guy. Actually no, about all a biological pointer like that would ever account for is a trend. There are pretty much no absolutes in biology. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LD1990 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Oh give me a break with that nonsense. I'll say it yet again if it was biological than every single woman in the world would want a tall guy. So after spending this whole thread whining about statistics showing that the majority of women prefer taller men, your argument against any biological explanation is that "not every single woman wants a tall guy?" Again, we've evolved. Women don't need to worry about if their partner can protect them from danger or hunt down dinner, making certain traits less important in selecting a mate. The fact that not every woman wants a tall guy simply shows that we're not slaves to subconscious biological urges. It doesn't mean those urges don't exist. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Buddhist Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 No, I've never said every woman does, but the vast majority do. I'd be willing to bet 7 or 8 out of every 10 women prefer a tall guy. The others just don't care either way or a very small amount even prefer short guys. The problem is trying to find a woman that doesn't care about height where I find her attractive & she finds me attractive back among other criteria. In which case I think you just shot your own biology argument in the foot. If clearly the vast majority of women do and very few don't, then that does support the biology argument. If you haven't noticed. Biology isn't all or nothing. It's a propensity towards but not an absolute. Even weak genes exist out there beyond the human species which means at least some of the time the weak genes get chosen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So after spending this whole thread whining about statistics showing that the majority of women prefer taller men, your argument against any biological explanation is that "not every single woman wants a tall guy?" Again, we've evolved. Women don't need to worry about if their partner can protect them from danger or hunt down dinner, making certain traits less important in selecting a mate. The fact that not every woman wants a tall guy simply shows that we're not slaves to subconscious biological urges. It doesn't mean those urges don't exist. So what you're saying is every woman has urges to want to be with a tall guy even if they say they don't care about height? Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Lamare Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 In 2015 there were 67.1 million married women in the US. Approximately 14% of men are six foot or over. This tells me two things and begs a question. 1.Many of those women did not marry a man who was over 6'. 2. Those married men who are under 6' must have circumvented women's preferences somehow. The question is how did these guys do it? Emulate them instead of bemoaning your luck at being born shorter. I honestly think the problem lies with OLD, I'd much rather meet people IRL. If a majority of women are aiming for the 14% who are 6' and over there are going to be some pretty disappointed women when they realise that there are not nearly enough 6 footers to go round, especially when they find that the guy who has listed himself as 'athletic' and 6' has a beer belly and is only 5' 10". 2 Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 And I've never said all women want tall guys. But the whole biological thing just seems like nonsense to me. It just feels like an excuse. It's like saying it's biological for men to prefer big breasts when some guys don't even care one way or another. Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 In 2015 there were 67.1 million married women in the US. Approximately 14% of men are six foot or over. This tells me two things and begs a question. 1.Many of those women did not marry a man who was over 6'. 2. Those married men who are under 6' must have circumvented women's preferences somehow. The question is how did these guys do it? Emulate them instead of bemoaning your luck at being born shorter. I honestly think the problem lies with OLD, I'd much rather meet people IRL. If a majority of women are aiming for the 14% who are 6' and over there are going to be some pretty disappointed women when they realise that there are not nearly enough 6 footers to go round, especially when they find that the guy who has listed himself as 'athletic' and 6' has a beer belly and is only 5' 10". True, & it's why it doesn't make sense to have such a preference if you're eliminating 80% of guys because of it. I'm just hoping that most of those women that are with shorter guys actually enjoy being with them & not just kind of settling because they couldn't find anyone taller. Link to post Share on other sites
m57 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I think it's also fair to say that those who aren't desperate for a relationship have the luxury of higher criteria. If nobody comes along who meets that criteria, they aren't bothered by being single so it's no loss to them. I'm kind of like that with some shoes I've been looking at online recently. I have some fairly strict criteria, but I'm not desperate so am happy to wait for the right ones even if it takes a year or more. I hope you're being ironic. I mean really, sincerely, I hope that. Because we all know a good pair of shoes is worth more than a guy or a relationship. The two just don't compare. I'm in my late 50s. In my lifetime women generally have preferred tall men. I'm pretty sure OLD has done two things to make that preference at least seem more common, and perhaps to make it more intensely felt. First, OLD has given women a way to essentially eliminate from consideration men below a certain height. Prior to OLD and currently in face to face meetings, women might look past a man's height because she noticed something else she liked about him. Many electronic means of getting together list a person's height and so a woman searching by height will never see some men or their profiles. And then a woman can warn off men who are searching that she has a height preference or requirement by stating that in her profile. The second thing OLD (and now dating apps) has done is to make men far more aware of women's preferences regarding height. 40 years ago a shorter man might know he is at a disadvantage, but he would likely be unaware of when and where that disadvantage affected him. Now it can be all too clear. If men below a certain height don't check their emotions carefully OLD can feel like a pretty rejecting place. I'll just add that threads like this won't change anything, and they might do some harm. Angry or hurt men may nurture their anger and hurt to no benefit for them or anyone else, and women may experience something like confirmation bias. I can see, though, why some men get frustrated and feel like an overlooked pair of shoes. Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 In which case I think you just shot your own biology argument in the foot. If clearly the vast majority of women do and very few don't, then that does support the biology argument. If you haven't noticed. Biology isn't all or nothing. It's a propensity towards but not an absolute. Even weak genes exist out there beyond the human species which means at least some of the time the weak genes get chosen. Feel like we're going around in circles here. Now you're basically admitting yourself the vast majority want a taller guy. I just don't believe in the biology nonsense. It just feels too out there of an excuse. This is the year 2016 so using it as an excuse today doesn't feel right to me personally. Link to post Share on other sites
m57 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) In which case I think you just shot your own biology argument in the foot. If clearly the vast majority of women do and very few don't, then that does support the biology argument. If you haven't noticed. Biology isn't all or nothing. It's a propensity towards but not an absolute. Even weak genes exist out there beyond the human species which means at least some of the time the weak genes get chosen. Are you cheering him up by saying that there's a slim chance his weak genes might get chosen ? I laugh because this is where these sorts of discussions end up. I think the OP has a gripe in the sense that being a short man comes with some challenges other men don't face, and being short doesn't spare you any of the challenges all men face. The problem is that there's no place to go with the gripe. Voicing it may feel good, but it may just get you labeled as insecure (not entirely fair but likely to happen). And OP, just about all men (and women) do face challenges with dating and most accept them or find work arounds. You seem to want to dwell on yours. While I'm sympathetic, ultimately you're wasting time and energy you'd be wise to spend on being attractive in ways you can control. Edit: My bad, I thought NJ123 was the OP. OP comments are directed to NJ. Edited October 17, 2016 by m57 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LD1990 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Feel like we're going around in circles here. Now you're basically admitting yourself the vast majority want a taller guy. I just don't believe in the biology nonsense. It just feels too out there of an excuse. This is the year 2016 so using it as an excuse today doesn't feel right to me personally. No one is using it as an excuse as there's nothing to excuse. Tallness in men is an attractive trait. That doesn't mean all women want a taller guy, it just means it's an attractive physical trait to have. If you want an answer as to why tallness is considered attractive, well, it's pretty obvious if you look at the animal kingdom. Taller equals bigger, which equals stronger, which equals more power, better protection, and a better chance for offspring to survive and thrive. Now, none of those is always true, but they're true on average. It is 2016, and because of how different the world is now, height, size, and physical prowess are far less important in mate selection. Those things are all still attractive, but they aren't the be-all end-all when choosing who to be with. So no, not every woman wants a tall guy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 No one is using it as an excuse as there's nothing to excuse. Tallness in men is an attractive trait. That doesn't mean all women want a taller guy, it just means it's an attractive physical trait to have. If you want an answer as to why tallness is considered attractive, well, it's pretty obvious if you look at the animal kingdom. Taller equals bigger, which equals stronger, which equals more power, better protection, and a better chance for offspring to survive and thrive. Now, none of those is always true, but they're true on average. It is 2016, and because of how different the world is now, height, size, and physical prowess are far less important in mate selection. Those things are all still attractive, but they aren't the be-all end-all when choosing who to be with. So no, not every woman wants a tall guy. I think what it really comes down to is that it's just really annoying that one of the most desirable traits that woman really would like in a guy is something I have no control over. It's frustrating to think that the good majority wouldn't even give me a second look or even find me attractive just due to that. And taller doesn't always equal stronger. There's a lot of strong shorter guys that are way more tough than a lot of taller men. Link to post Share on other sites
LD1990 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I think what it really comes down to is that it's just really annoying that one of the most desirable traits that woman really would like in a guy is something I have no control over. It's frustrating to think that the good majority wouldn't even give me a second look or even find me attractive just due to that. I'm not gonna lie to you, it's not ideal, but you gotta play the hand you're dealt to the best of your ability. And taller doesn't always equal stronger. There's a lot of strong shorter guys that are way more tough than a lot of taller men. Obviously. We're talking about on average here, which is why I said: "Now, none of those is always true, but they're true on average." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm not gonna lie to you, it's not ideal, but you gotta play the hand you're dealt to the best of your ability. Obviously. We're talking about on average here, which is why I said: "Now, none of those is always true, but they're true on average." Exactly, which means my options are going to be pretty limited even if I had a good job & whatever else. Just seems like the odds are that I'm going to wind up alone at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I see tall men every day who are completely unattractive. Tall isn't enough to overcome a host of other problems. Tall is attractive. But so are many other things. So you're not tall...focus on what is attractive about you, and women who are attracted to you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Exactly, which means my options are going to be pretty limited even if I had a good job & whatever else. Just seems like the odds are that I'm going to wind up alone at this point. Ridiculous. My husband isn't tall, but he's strong, protective, ambitious, hot, and great in bed. His options were never limited, and I'm smokin' 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Buddhist Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I think the OP has a gripe in the sense that being a short man comes with some challenges other men don't face, and being short doesn't spare you any of the challenges all men face. The problem is that there's no place to go with the gripe. Well sure. But I think the entire world has a gripe if we start looking about what isn't optimal in our life and thinking how much easier our lives would be if it were optimal. I was born with an average face, I could gripe about that because obviously my dating life would be a lot more exciting if I was [insert name of beautiful woman here]. I was also born with average intelligence and boy I doubt genius' struggle the way I do. We could go on all day. The reality is 99% of the worlds population were born with sub-optimal genes. That's why there's a halo around the 1% who got them. If NJ or indeed the OP are going to bemoan the fact they aren't in that 1% well then I'm sorry I'm failing to have a lot of sympathy for that. It means they were born into the same circumstances as the other 99% of the world. Now most people have their momentary *sigh* about that then just accept it and get on with it. They don't try and turn it into a freedom movement. And there is a place to gripe about that....get a blog. It's free. Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 And I've never said all women want tall guys. But the whole biological thing just seems like nonsense to me. It just feels like an excuse. It's like saying it's biological for men to prefer big breasts when some guys don't even care one way or another. I posted two links (they were deleted for whatever reason) yesterday. I think you need to brush up on your biology, science, statistic AND debate skills. Sorry NJ123, your position on these issues is flawed. Even your example above about boobs is an EXACT example of what happens with preferences that are tied to subconscious and genes. A lot of guys will "prefer" big boobs (natural or even fake) but still end up with a girl that doesn't have them. Many things factor into the decision making process because we are humans, who have evolved some and will reason some parts of this decision. And for some guys big boobs are not a deal breaker or even a concern AND SAME with some women about height. Google: biological preference for tall guys or stuff of that nature. Plenty of studies. I would skip the ones that refer to as it relates to online--no one that is trying to say the other side of your argument is saying it is FAIR only that it is a preference. Just like the anonymity of online dating and this forum, people are more likely to be honest about what they really want. Preferences is not about being fair. There are soooooo many traits that make up a person--you could never make it fair on a trait by trait basis. That is just silly. Not to mention love and attraction doesn't work like that. You should be grateful for the women who are open up height-wise to not miss out on a great guys of any height. There are some--which is what a lot of us have been trying to tell you. I've seen glimpses of a good sense of humor in your posts. Which is pretty much the number one thing girls SAY they want when they list personality traits. Is it fair that you may be funnier than that 6'4" guy over there--i guess not perhaps. Can you and should you use it to your advantage--by all means. The real question is DO YOU WANT A SOLUTION AND A STRATEGY? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Ridiculous. My husband isn't tall, but he's strong, protective, ambitious, hot, and great in bed. His options were never limited, and I'm smokin' Yeah, but it's likely he wasn't inexperienced at an older age. I have height, inexperience at an older age, & health issues working against me. Not a good combination whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 So what you're saying is every woman has urges to want to be with a tall guy even if they say they don't care about height? Nobody here can speak for every woman. You may as well just take it at face value if one of the women you are dating tells you that she doesn't care about height - unless you feel like subjecting them to polygraph tests. That has its own downside though; the women will then dump you. Seriously, you really are not dating any women. Why are you spending all this time and energy working yourself up over whether all the women who you might conceivably date, maybe some day in the future, may secretly prefer taller men? Isn't that sort of a waste of your time at this point? Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I posted two links (they were deleted for whatever reason) yesterday. I think you need to brush up on your biology, science, statistic AND debate skills. Sorry NJ123, your position on these issues is flawed. Even your example above about boobs is an EXACT example of what happens with preferences that are tied to subconscious and genes. A lot of guys will "prefer" big boobs (natural or even fake) but still end up with a girl that doesn't have them. Many things factor into the decision making process because we are humans, who have evolved some and will reason some parts of this decision. And for some guys big boobs are not a deal breaker or even a concern AND SAME with some women about height. Google: biological preference for tall guys or stuff of that nature. Plenty of studies. I would skip the ones that refer to as it relates to online--no one that is trying to say the other side of your argument is saying it is FAIR only that it is a preference. Just like the anonymity of online dating and this forum, people are more likely to be honest about what they really want. Preferences is not about being fair. There are soooooo many traits that make up a person--you could never make it fair on a trait by trait basis. That is just silly. Not to mention love and attraction doesn't work like that. You should be grateful for the women who are open up height-wise to not miss out on a great guys of any height. There are some--which is what a lot of us have been trying to tell you. I've seen glimpses of a good sense of humor in your posts. Which is pretty much the number one thing girls SAY they want when they list personality traits. Is it fair that you may be funnier than that 6'4" guy over there--i guess not perhaps. Can you and should you use it to your advantage--by all means. The real question is DO YOU WANT A SOLUTION AND A STRATEGY? I understand it's not about being fair but I just want a woman to have me as her preference. I just hate the feeling like she'll have to make a compromise to be with me because she really has a preference for tall guys. It's like automatically every attractive tall guy she glances at when out somewhere without me will be more attractive to her physically. I mean on a deeper intimate level of course it would be different than with those guys since she's with me, but on a physical level she'll find them more desirable. I mean I have my own deal breakers to factor in as well in terms of what I'd want out of a relationship. So it just seems it's going to be difficult. Most of the posters on here said my deal breakers aren't really bad, but perhaps could be a little difficult to meet every single one of them. And my humor probably doesn't show that much on here since I usually vent a lot of the time on here about my situation & things that I'm not fond dating wise. But I'd like to think I'm funny with friends & such. I make them laugh a lot at the least. So what solution & strategy do I need? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NJ123 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Nobody here can speak for every woman. You may as well just take it at face value if one of the women you are dating tells you that she doesn't care about height - unless you feel like subjecting them to polygraph tests. That has its own downside though; the women will then dump you. Seriously, you really are not dating any women. Why are you spending all this time and energy working yourself up over whether all the women who you might conceivably date, maybe some day in the future, may secretly prefer taller men? Isn't that sort of a waste of your time at this point? Because it's going to have an affect on me from meeting anyone to begin with. So how can I not worry about it? My situation isn't like a lot of others where I'm older with no experience & women will wonder why on top of these other things. Even that one girl I was chatting with 2 months ago online was wondering why I never had a relationship. She would say things where she was obviously joking about it, but it honestly still stung a little to have to say them deep down. Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Exactly, which means my options are going to be pretty limited even if I had a good job & whatever else. Just seems like the odds are that I'm going to wind up alone at this point. There are approximately 36 million women in your preferred age range in the USA. Even if only 1% of them would consider dating a man of your height, that gives you 360,000 women to select from. You're just fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Yeah, but it's likely he wasn't inexperienced at an older age. I have height, inexperience at an older age, & health issues working against me. Not a good combination whatsoever. Well i feel bad for you (especially about the health issues). I think realistically you need to decide 'what you want". One of my smart friends says this when faced with a dilemma. Decide what you want: *Is it sympathy? Yes some of us feel sorry that you have to deal with the fact that a significant percentage of women are going to prefer (initial attraction) a taller guy--all other things being equal. *Is it a solution and a strategy? I would say online dating is probably mostly a waste of time for you. People put in a shopping list basically. If you are not going to make the cut with a lot of women who you are a stranger to due to your height, you're not going to get noticed the way you should on there. And it's going to have you spinning your wheels and getting all riled up. Your energy about your dating situation is better used in productive ways and channeling it toward ways that WILL get you a gf. Currently, you don't seem like you are really interested in this, which is why so many of us find it frustrating. This would be a route to go on. *Do you want examples of ways guys with similar height, life situations have succeeded in the dating game so you could learn and emulate what they did so you could replicate something similar yourself? I'd say that would be the route to go on so you could get to the place where you ALSO have a dating success story of your own in spite of your height on your hands. if that the very least in this current moment, the stories should help you build your hope. Then you can build on that from there. *or do you just want to vent, complain and shoot down everything that everyone tells you that doesn't fit your (warped) belief system? This is a poor route and is not even getting you the sympathy that maybe is really what you need to start with. It comes off as a hang up and something you can't move past; it's a blockage for you. yes, that's right, your attitude and perception of this issue is preventing the very thing you want (a gf, some dates). Maybe you should start another thread that is just for complaining about mean or dumb things girls did to reject you because of your height? And keep this thread for a real solution. Everyone needs to vent once and a while. I think you've moved beyond that though and it's stopping you from what you want. Not best use of your time and effort. A guy that was shorter or had some other trait that was less desirable would most likely BEST get my attention by charming me--through getting to know him via work or friendship or a hobby. He could impress me with his talent, how he treated me or funny things he said. Sure it may not be as easy as the route a tall guy has but it can be just as satisfying. Also probably more likely to result in a good, real relationship--while the tall guy getting date after date via online is still missing the mark with the girls he is meeting. Initial attraction is different than what is lasting attraction and a solid relationship--you seem to be kinda mixing them as if they were one and the same in your posts. You probably won't have initial attraction AS EASY as a tall guy who is about as attractive in the face as you but the next stage lasting attraction, there is no reason why you couldn't be as successful or more successful than another guy. Depends on what you offer in total and who you meet and compatibility. Maybe it's your inexperience that has your belief system a bit skewed. Good luck 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I understand it's not about being fair but I just want a woman to have me as her preference. I just hate the feeling like she'll have to make a compromise to be with me because she really has a preference for tall guys. It's like automatically every attractive tall guy she glances at when out somewhere without me will be more attractive to her physically. I mean on a deeper intimate level of course it would be different than with those guys since she's with me, but on a physical level she'll find them more desirable. I mean I have my own deal breakers to factor in as well in terms of what I'd want out of a relationship. So it just seems it's going to be difficult. Most of the posters on here said my deal breakers aren't really bad, but perhaps could be a little difficult to meet every single one of them. And my humor probably doesn't show that much on here since I usually vent a lot of the time on here about my situation & things that I'm not fond dating wise. But I'd like to think I'm funny with friends & such. I make them laugh a lot at the least. So what solution & strategy do I need? omgosh we are getting somewhere!!!! (is there a bunny jumping for joy emoji!!!???) Listen, i really want you to get a gf. first step is to get yourself to at LEAST neutral about your belief system. Just tell yourself that "it may be possible". If you stop looking for reasons of "why it will never work for you", your mind will start looking for ways to make it work. I realize that's a significant leap given your current belief system so at least try to get to neutral-where you believe it may be possible, that's it. Then when you are out, try to look for examples of couples where the guy is on shorter side--around your height. Gather evidence. Go back and read this thread and make note of how many times within you were given examples by people on this thread. (i'll start: I had a bf who was 5'7"; i've also had one that was 6'6" and to describe my thought process is that once a guy meets my threshold of what I find attractive, made up of a variety of traits, I'm not going to throw him out just for his height, nor is it going to be the be all, end all). We can give you hope and examples and help you throughout the process and strategize with you but you have to give yourself that chance as well by being open to the possibility that you just might find a gf, have success dating. Then next you gotta WORK to get rid of the hangup about height---it's gonna hurt your chances more than your actual height!!! And then you need to emphasize the areas in which you outshine others. Do you know yours? I did think I saw a glimpse of humor which actually made you seem cooler and more attractive than when you were complaining. I can keep going on but this is a start and I put on my other post where you should look (it's not online for you-which is also not really that great for most people btw). ps. I know you want a potential gf to "prefer" you in ALL ways. Maybe with your inexperience, you have never experienced this: that one day, this person who is far from perfect and not what you expected to be in love with at all is exactly what you needed and wanted all along....someone will feel exactly like that about you and vice versa. And you will be surprising them with things they never imagined and be perfect for them. Be that guy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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