Hi there - it's me. Still alive

[Satu]

Love or dysfunctional attachment?

 

There are many things that people call 'love,' which aren't love at all.

 

Here's a little test:

 

 

"Love is total commitment to a person's wellbeing."

 

 

If you can both meet that standard, its love.

 

If you can't, it isn't.

[imperfectangel]

I know what you mean by mm not caring. Mine is the same. He never asks how I am. My youngest child is disabled, he never asks what's going on with him. Mm now has a third child which he hasn't told me about (he doesn't know I'm on what's app his pic gave him away) I gave him chances to tell me the truth like asking why he can't see me on his days off but he made up some other excuse

 

I have no idea why I'm so in love with a complete douche

[MidnightBlue1980]

I DID move out. I moved and made the changes I needed to make in order for us to start spending more time together to develop the relationship as you quoted above. I made the changes, I took the steps, only to have him make up another excuse about why he cannot move out and leave his wife, which slowly turned into how much he actually no longer loves me (last month he declared he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me) and last night he discarded me in a vile manner.

 

It is as if once he saw me making changes and taking steps, once again he could not follow through on anything so he had to make up every excuse in the book to back peddle.

 

Unbelievable.

 

Edit to add: Sorry I am ranting off. I am incredibly hurt right now. Not ranting at you at all, just ranting at my situation that I was stupid enough to get into. The sad thing is, is that I know in my heart of hearts that this is over for good between him and I, yet still I will forever hope he contacts me again at some point. How stupid am I? MB, your situation is so similar to mine, even regarding your husband... everything you say resonates with me.

 

I think I figured out how to respond. I mean that literally, i.e. use this website.

 

Rant away. I went through what you are going through after my first marriage. We both left but then he went back home. Well, sort of. He said he was separated but I was not allowed there. I existed in that state for 3 years. Yep, people, I was THAT stupid. Trust me, NC is better than that. My advice to you is to 1) obviously figure out what you want with your marriage. I'm sure you know that. 2) if you intend to stay on your own, go join Find your people - Meetup and join every group that looking interesting. You do not have to date - it is not a dating site. Join athletic groups - running, biking, hiking, yoga or social only groups where you go to dinners or just drinks, there are groups to talk about politics, there are art groups, theatre, movies, knitting, there are even groups for wicans. Just sign up for a bunch and get out as much as you can. Do things, meet people, distract your mind.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Midnightblue, So sorry for your pain. From reading your posts and other intelligent women, it just seems it doesn't matter how much we understand the theory behind affairs, there is just no 'off' switch to our feelings -- feelings of love, hate, limerance, infatuation, addiction.. whatever the hell they are -- they just dont go away because we want them to.

 

Ive been purposely reading every success story i can of people who got over the affair and seem to be healing. It seems that in those cases they were truly able to go NC. I know thats hard for you and im in a very similar if not even more challenging boat (business and mutual connection-wise) but i think im going to have to do everything in my power to make it happen or this pain will be perpetual.

 

I was curious though -- You did mention that you think its possible he is mad at you for not continuing the affair. What gives you this impression? Has he implied this? -- I have the feeling he is just "mad" at the situation (ie little brat) and is acting cold toward you for lack of any mature problem resolution/confrontational skills. Your maturity when approaching him to tell him you expect a minimal level of respect etc and his response to this was just evidence that he is a little boy who is just not equipped to handle such confrontations. I think he just thinks hes not allowed to talk to you so its easier if he just pretends you dont exist. --- My MM, like yours, tends to disappoint me when in similar situations, i honestly think we put them on such an undeserved pedestal because they played a role in our fantasy and its hard to admit to ourselves... 'they're actually really just big losers we wasted our time on'... Douches, clowns, silly little boys.

 

It must be so painful to be in your marriage with your husband in love with someonelse so blatantly. I understand unconventional marriage as a concept but that just seems almost torturous to be existing in. You had to watch your husband lie in bed with depression over some young woman.. that must have eaten away at your self-esteem in such a way that it almost explains why some fat little 'weasel' has you still thinking of him 24/7 --- I know you've heard it so many times here but i need to say it again -- You deserve so much better.

 

No, he doesn't act angry towards me and he has even told me he is not mad. My reasons for thinking that are that two men told me that - my husband and my guy friend who is in the group and knows him (he named him the weasel). They both said essentially the same thing, MM is pissed because I did not continue the game. I took away his plaything. Both think MM very immature and inexperienced, unable to properly handle his emotions. He must always blame someone and he blames me, H and his W.

 

But who knows really. And you know, who cares. It's been a month now and I don't feel any better. In fact, I feel worse from the way I have been handling it. I've been trying to manage it, fix my marriage while still being friendly to MM to show him I am not mad at the way he treated me. I thought if I showed him what a great person I was, he would (I don't know) act normal again, be nice to me. I felt that being cold would backfire. So I was really nice and went out of my way to show him how cool I was, look at me, I am totally evolved and over it.

 

As for H, yes. I felt bad watching him trying to get over OW. If it makes you all feel better, he is not over her and probably won't be completely. He really regrets any of this as now he has residual feelings for someone that won't go away. I will say I asked him why are we still together. Should we separate? And he said no, he really loves me. But of course, he is no better than me. He still goes to the same gym and even if she is not there, he knows its her gym. He could join my gym but I know he feels that if he leaves, he will 100% never see her again.

 

And thats how I feel on my end too. It's hard to rip that bandaid off.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Limeblue, im the same as you -- i know we're done and it needs to be done, but letting go of the hope that he'll one day contact me seems like an impossible task. Im trying .. but its almost like until hes actually dead i'll always have this glimmer of hope... I guess i just hope it reduces drastically such that i can live my life without the nagging pain.

 

It does go away completely. But it takes something big. With my prior MM after my first marriage (aka separated man), I did not really cut the cord till I had changed jobs and moved. I literally bought a condo to get away. As soon as I was in places that had no memories of him, it got easier. We were together 3 years but within 3 months of those changes, I was truly over him. I then met my now H. And a month after that (4 months out) I saw MM eating lunch alone. I swear to you all, I felt nothing other than, hey, there is XX. I went over, sat down and was genuinely friendly. And then I walked off and never spoke to him again. And it was not a decision, I was truly not thinking or caring about him. I was 100% over it. Because here is the thing. You, me, we don't really love these guys. You cannot love someone who only causes you pain. It's not love. It's fantasy, infatuation, putting them on that pedastal, boredom with your own life. A bunch of things but not love.

[Popsicle]

Midnight blue, question......had your H been with a MW, do you think maybe none of this would have blown up because the MW would not have pressured your H to leave you, thus making it easier to just continue in an ongoing A?

[Popsicle]

I DID move out. I moved and made the changes I needed to make in order for us to start spending more time together to develop the relationship as you quoted above. I made the changes, I took the steps, only to have him make up another excuse about why he cannot move out and leave his wife, which slowly turned into how much he actually no longer loves me (last month he declared he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me) and last night he discarded me in a vile manner.

 

It is as if once he saw me making changes and taking steps, once again he could not follow through on anything so he had to make up every excuse in the book to back peddle.

 

Unbelievable.

 

Edit to add: Sorry I am ranting off. I am incredibly hurt right now. Not ranting at you at all, just ranting at my situation that I was stupid enough to get into. The sad thing is, is that I know in my heart of hearts that this is over for good between him and I, yet still I will forever hope he contacts me again at some point. How stupid am I? MB, your situation is so similar to mine, even regarding your husband... everything you say resonates with me.

 

Some guys (esp. ones who are stuck in a bad place) just like to fantasize. It makes them feel good. I've had even a single guy act like this with me once.

 

The key is for you (or me) to spot guys ahead of time who might be prone to fantasizing and avoid them and situations that are conducive to fantasizing.

[OWAmy]

Too True Popsicle.

 

My xMM was a real fantasist. In the end when I saw him for what he truly was I renamed him The Fantasist on my phone and to his face. He did not like that one bit and used to cry about it. Up until then he didn't see what he had been saying as fantasising - I'm still convinced he doesn't now, but no longer my issue. From then on he became a figure of ridicule and I lost any respect I had for him. Even though he did leave and file for divorce I would have only been disrespecting myself had I tried to have yet another phase of a secret relationship with him!

[OWAmy]

I am doubtful mine does. He is already chatting up women on Tinder after telling me he wants to spend his life with me and that this year we will make it happen so we can be together. Then merely 2 weeks later he had started the devaluation stage, and now discard. I cannot force him to want me as such, but I find it twisted that I still want him to want me. It doesn't change my hurt and pain though. All the special times together, the intimacy, the talking, the connection... I need that and yet I am now doubtful I will ever truly find it.

 

YOU WILL find that again!! I consider myself very fortunate that ALL my exes I had the same connection I did with the xMM and I am very, very fussy and not attracted to many men at all. My xMM had never had that spark, electricity before, the passion and great intimacy with another. He chose his partner's and his wife for many different but valid reasons. I learned a LOT from the affair about what I truly want from a relationship and I will utilise that going forward. I do believe that until the MM is out of your system there will not be a chance of finding it with another though. You need to be open to possibilities :-)

[Lovetoohard]

Some guys (esp. ones who are stuck in a bad place) just like to fantasize. It makes them feel good. I've had even a single guy act like this with me once.

 

The key is for you (or me) to spot guys ahead of time who might be prone to fantasizing and avoid them and situations that are conducive to fantasizing.

 

I agree - spotting MM/MW that have these escapist tendencies and the need to create a happy little bubble for themselves instead of dealing with challenges in their life is key. But I think that's only one piece to it. The other important piece is that a lot of AP's provide this happy little bubble even if it's at their own expense and learning not to extend ourselves beyond a certain point is important as well. Human beings need to feel wanted and loved. I made my XMM happy even though it was killing me because in my skewed perception, i felt needed and wanted. We can be kind, empathetic and caring towards people but in a balanced, measured and healthy way. Taking on a OW/OM role is the extreme scenario. Of course, hindsight's 20/20

Edited January 21, 2016 by Lovetoohard

[Popsicle]

I agree - spotting MM/MW that have these escapist tendencies and the need to create a happy little bubble for themselves instead of dealing with challenges in their life is key. But I think that's only one piece to it. The other important piece is that a lot of AP's provide this happy little bubble even if it's at their own expense and learning not to extend ourselves beyond a certain point is important as well. Human beings need to feel wanted and loved. I made my XMM happy even though it was killing me because in my skewed perception, i felt needed and wanted. We can be kind, empathetic and caring towards people but in a balanced, measured and healthy way.

 

One easy way to never end up in this situation is to never engage in an A with a married person at all. So when you see married folks slying up to you (and they do) just run the other way!

[rainbowsandkittens]

I agree - spotting MM/MW that have these escapist tendencies and the need to create a happy little bubble for themselves instead of dealing with challenges in their life is key. But I think that's only one piece to it. The other important piece is that a lot of AP's provide this happy little bubble even if it's at their own expense and learning not to extend ourselves beyond a certain point is important as well. Human beings need to feel wanted and loved. I made my XMM happy even though it was killing me because in my skewed perception, i felt needed and wanted. We can be kind, empathetic and caring towards people but in a balanced, measured and healthy way. Taking on a OW/OM role is the extreme scenario. Of course, hindsight's 20/20

 

This is me to a T. I actually have been talking to my therapist about being a people pleaser and feeling like I need to help/ fix everyone all. the. time.

 

I would guess a lot of OW/OM fall into that category.

[Satu]

I have often thought that affairs consist in large parts of fantasy and make believe. They exist in a little bubble, on the fringe of 'nuts and bolts' reality.

 

The problem lies in the fact that when something solid and real is needed, they evaporate, leaving you with nothing.

[Forceawakensme]

MidnightBlue, i think you're right. I think a drastic change is needed to remove constant triggers/reminders. At least to make NC faster. Right now its the constant schedule, triggers, reminders.. holding me back. I know in the past when getting over normal relationships, i always got over them that much faster when a big life change was involved.. ie changing jobs, moving cities etc.

[Satu]

MidnightBlue, i think you're right. I think a drastic change is needed to remove constant triggers/reminders. At least *to make NC faster. Right now its the constant schedule, triggers, reminders.. holding me back. I know in the past when getting over normal relationships, i always got over them that much faster when a big life change was involved.. ie changing jobs, moving cities etc.

 

NC doesn't go fast or slow. It just is.

 

No contact is about two things, and two things only:

 

 

1. It protects you from further hurt.

 

2. It allows you to heal without being distracted by the ex.

 

 

Thats all it is, and all it does.

 

 

Take care.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Midnight blue, question......had your H been with a MW, do you think maybe none of this would have blown up because the MW would not have pressured your H to leave you, thus making it easier to just continue in an ongoing A?

 

Popsicle, my H is my male twin. He is not like other MM, he falls deep like women do. The SG lived with her parents otherwise I am sure it would have gotten very serious. He had dated MW when he was single and it brought him down to date a MW, so I don't think he would have gone that route. Plus he was looking for love and attention, not sex. We have a great sex life.

 

I probably could have lost him. I knew that. But the SG pushed and made a fatal error with him. She pulled way back and controlled the situation, insisting he only call her once a week. She would send these text like I am in control of this. And she would not say I love you back. It worked for a while, he was destroyed. But it backfired. He said, I would never leave my marriage to be single or the chance to date her. In that way he is like my exMM.

 

You probably think we have a very strange marriage.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I am not sure if anyone even remembers me, I see so many names. I am just checking in and maybe can give a little comfort to the people I see in deep torment. MM and I ended it a little over a month ago at my request, since I did not want to be in an A and he only wanted an A. Since then I see him and it's been bad, it's like a death. The person I knew is gone. The person I see now is someone else, cold and icy. There was some contact in the beginning but now there has been nothing for a few weeks now outside of in person, where he basically is awkward and cold.

 

Anyway, I wanted to reassure you all out there, you won't die. You will live. The incredible pain you feel - it does fade a bit. I still feel bad but its better. Sometimes an hour goes by and I realized I have not thought of him but they he pops in my head.

 

This is a boring post, without contact I really have no drama. H and I are trying as best as we can do. Right now I am just trying to forget MM and move on.

[Poppy47]

You are making progress Blue.

 

Keep going and one day you will realise that you didn't think of him at all.

 

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

 

Poppy.

[lemondrop21]

I'm really glad to hear about your progress. It gives me hope. It's not "boring" to those of us going through a breakup. Keep it up .

 

So did you intend to walk away from your marriage if your ExMM had left his? How have things been for you at home with your husband since the breakup?

 

Sending you best wishes!

[Liam1]

I don't really have a question other than what the hell is wrong with me that I am hung up on someone is a Bad Guy. Seriously. A Bad Guy who was so selfish he did not care about his W, me or my H, he just wanted what he wanted. I guess I like being treated like crap. Why do I miss him, worry about him, wonder what he is thinking. It's the silence that kills me.

 

MB

 

MB:

 

Gently, this paragraph sounds as if you are not owning your part in the affair.

 

You had the affair too. You hurt your husband and the OM's wife and you just wanted what you wanted, too. Right?

 

Okay, so maybe you don't ignore the other man. But being ignored after an affair ends is typical and no contact is suggested by all marriage counselors.

 

Most likely the OM is trying to work on his marriage. Or maybe he is allowing you the space to work on yours.

 

If you want to stay married to your husband, it's a good thing that the OM is not stalking you and attempting to rekindle. He has moved on. He is giving you the space to move on.

 

If you don't want to stay married, then maybe it would be kinder to set your husband free. If you don't love your husband, let him go.

 

Affairs are typically not meant to be forever and most people in affairs likely do not want to end their marriages or they would simply seek a divorce.

 

The way I see it, almost all affairs end terribly. Everyone involved with the two people having the affair end up getting hurt including the affair partners.

 

Worse sometimes one of the affair partners decides later that they wanted more than just an affair.

 

I hope your OM did not tell you he was going to leave his wife but was telling a lie.

 

Still, many times, men say this when they do not mean it. They may be caught up in the fantasy. He may have gotten carried away.

 

I hope he did not tell you he loved you, but if he did maybe he meant that he loved you in the affair, while caught up in the fantasy of the affair.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I'm really glad to hear about your progress. It gives me hope. It's not "boring" to those of us going through a breakup. Keep it up .

 

So did you intend to walk away from your marriage if your ExMM had left his? How have things been for you at home with your husband since the breakup?

 

Sending you best wishes!

 

Hi Lemondrop. It's hard for me to really answer that. I was in a cloud of emotions and H and I were fighting a lot. Back then I would have said maybe to your question but now I feel like I see a whole new side to MM and it's hard to imagine me being with him anymore. I can tell you it would have been a disaster and I would wager he would have gone back to his wife anyway.

 

Things have been peaceful at home. H has been supportive. I'm just taking it one day at a time.

[MidnightBlue1980]

MB:

 

Gently, this paragraph sounds as if you are not owning your part in the affair.

 

You had the affair too. You hurt your husband and the OM's wife and you just wanted what you wanted, too. Right?

 

Okay, so maybe you don't ignore the other man. But being ignored after an affair ends is typical and no contact is suggested by all marriage counselors.

 

Most likely the OM is trying to work on his marriage. Or maybe he is allowing you the space to work on yours.

 

If you want to stay married to your husband, it's a good thing that the OM is not stalking you and attempting to rekindle. He has moved on. He is giving you the space to move on.

 

If you don't want to stay married, then maybe it would be kinder to set your husband free. If you don't love your husband, let him go.

 

Affairs are typically not meant to be forever and most people in affairs likely do not want to end their marriages or they would simply seek a divorce.

 

The way I see it, almost all affairs end terribly. Everyone involved with the two people having the affair end up getting hurt including the affair partners.

 

Worse sometimes one of the affair partners decides later that they wanted more than just an affair.

 

I hope your OM did not tell you he was going to leave his wife but was telling a lie.

 

Still, many times, men say this when they do not mean it. They may be caught up in the fantasy. He may have gotten carried away.

 

I hope he did not tell you he loved you, but if he did maybe he meant that he loved you in the affair, while caught up in the fantasy of the affair.

 

Hi Liam.

 

Well, I wrote that paragraph in the heat of emotion, I do completely recognize my part in the A. Everything you wrote is true of course, no contact is best and what is all parties involved to fix our marriages. My head knows that but it just hurts. I will say its been over a month now, so it does not hurt like it did when I wrote that paragraph.

 

To answer you, he did say he loved me and was in love with me, hundreds of times over the phone, in person, and electronic communication. He said he had been in love with me for years, he did not love his wife, they have no intimacy, all the stuff everyone says on these boards.

 

He wanted us to stay in our marriages and have our own relationship on the side as I have little children. He has a preteen. He said this would allow us to raise our children and see if our relationship would work down the road, when we were able to leave to be together. I did not want that life at all, my H already knew about the A so I needed to end it or end my marriage. MM held firm to what he wanted but he understood I did not want to continue an A. So he let me end it, then 2 days later told his wife lies about me and cut off all contact with me saying he needed to work on his marriage and couldn't talk to me anymore.

 

If I had to sum up what hurts, it would be this: I was basically only good enough to be kept on the side and once I was not willing to do that that, I was easily discarded without a second thought. My H puts a positive spin on it though. H says imagine if you did what he asked, we got divorced and 10 years from now he did this to you, (because H believes he would have) you would have wrecked your life. At least you got out now.

 

You are right - affairs do never end well.

[lemondrop21]

Hi Liam.

 

Well, I wrote that paragraph in the heat of emotion, I do completely recognize my part in the A. Everything you wrote is true of course, no contact is best and what is all parties involved to fix our marriages. My head knows that but it just hurts. I will say its been over a month now, so it does not hurt like it did when I wrote that paragraph.

 

To answer you, he did say he loved me and was in love with me, hundreds of times over the phone, in person, and electronic communication. He said he had been in love with me for years, he did not love his wife, they have no intimacy, all the stuff everyone says on these boards.

 

He wanted us to stay in our marriages and have our own relationship on the side as I have little children. He has a preteen. He said this would allow us to raise our children and see if our relationship would work down the road, when we were able to leave to be together. I did not want that life at all, my H already knew about the A so I needed to end it or end my marriage. MM held firm to what he wanted but he understood I did not want to continue an A. So he let me end it, then 2 days later told his wife lies about me and cut off all contact with me saying he needed to work on his marriage and couldn't talk to me anymore.

 

If I had to sum up what hurts, it would be this: I was basically only good enough to be kept on the side and once I was not willing to do that that, I was easily discarded without a second thought. My H puts a positive spin on it though. H says imagine if you did what he asked, we got divorced and 10 years from now he did this to you, (because H believes he would have) you would have wrecked your life. At least you got out now.

 

You are right - affairs do never end well.

 

I'm glad to hear that you have such a supportive husband who wants to save your marriage. I suppose he is waiting for you to get through the "withdrawals" as they say. Remind me, did your H at some point have an affair too?

[MidnightBlue1980]

I'm glad to hear that you have such a supportive husband who wants to save your marriage. I suppose he is waiting for you to get through the "withdrawals" as they say. Remind me, did your H at some point have an affair too?

 

Yes, we both had affairs at the same time. Really bizarre, right? So he understands the withdrawals. He says it will take time and never really goes 100% away. He just puts it all in a room in his mind, shuts the door and does not ever open it. He says that is what MM is doing to move on with his life.

 

I admit while it does not make me feel good (I prefer the idea of him lying around crying over me and eating Twinkies) the knowledge that MM is able to so easily move on and not think of me is a neon sign that I really should as well.

 

I've taken the following steps - I deleted all his contact info in my phone, blocked him on FB, and deleted the email account I had set up for him. When we ended it, he said, how can I contact you if things change and I promised I would keep the email open. Now these are all symbolic moves on my part. If you my name in your browser, you can get my contact info as I have a business and paid for SEO. Plus of course he has all my other email addresses and I will see him in person this week. But they were important steps for me to take, a sign to myself that I am not waiting for him to figure stuff out. I don't want him back - ok I may feel like I do but I am not a kid, I don't have to act on my feelings.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi, you posted at one point you thought most people would e confused by your marriage. I really wasn't until I read: my husband is like me, he falls in deep.

What I don't get is you both need love and attention (I am tracking) but our sex is great (huh)? Great sex is built on intiminacy. Intiminacy is built on mutual love and attention. You and your husband seem to have neither for each other?

 

Did the two of you or one of you love and gave attention to? Your past posts you indicate the answer is no, but one of the side effects of adultery is re-witimg martial history. Could it be the stress of day to day life of balancing jobs, kids, household maintenance caused one of you to begin to detach. The detachment caused the other spouse to begin to with hold love and attention out of frustion and stupid passive-aggressive behavior. Not unlike a child screaming I hate you or holding their beath in attempt to get their way.

 

I can tell you the day, time, and location that I began to give up on my marriage. And yes it did begin to show in a lack of affection. At that point as a result I stopped asking for or trying to initiating sex. I cut of my noise to spite my face. If she wanted sex she better ask for it because screw it, she could go without so could I. So we both drifted into a quiet pissing contest. So we entered a six year sexless marriage that resulted in her adultery. We never fought and insitded to be a thoughtful and considerate husband. To the outside world we look liked a settled middle age couple that were content.

 

I am sharing my store because if she had just sat next to me and cuddled once, if she just whispered in my ear "let's go tp bed a little early" our lives would have been much different. Somebody needs to lead and your here posting so your up.

 

To clarify one point before I close from your "how to trust again" your husband had a need for a romantic and emotional connection with long walks and phone calls, and he found it with OW, and did have in addition a light physical relationship. You on the other hand had an intense physical relationship with texts profession a deep love. But at the same time you still had great sex wit your husband?

 

You need to start by looking at yourself. Your first marriage you choose a man who beat you and you became a WW. You respond by marrying a KISA. In time you sought out out a another man who in hindsight saw and used you like an object, like your first husband. Do you see a pattern? Was and is the sex with your husband really that great in your opinion? What would do you think his opinion would be? Are you sure about his. On my DDay my exWW was shocked to discover I had been unhappy for 6 years and was wishing she would ask for a divorce and I found never considered our sex life to more then good and usually average and actually a little rote.

 

Do you think his OW got the relationship you wanted with him, and your OM got the relationship he wanted with you? I think he is shut down in a passive nice guy mode. If you want more you will need to push and pursue him.

 

Don't doubt for a second he still has a lot of love for you. Who left you to rot in the hotel room and who spent the night worried and looking for you?

 

Be well you both deserve a great marriage with each other.