Today is a hard day. Spoke to MM.

[winterkeep]

Keiraglass I could not agree with your post more. I am horrified by the bitterness displayed by so many posters here. I understand that infidelity is a trigger subject for many, but for goodness sake if your pain is still so new that you need to attack a person also in pain then step away from the keyboard. There is a living, feeling and often hurting human being on the other end of the screen.

 

Most OW come here to deal with pain, mostly they are trying to work on leaving the a and the dealing with the emotional fallout, instead of being helped they are harmed further, it is so disgusting. And yes I mean it when I say harmed, anyone who comes here to attack is an emotional abuser and loses any right to think they hold some sort of moral high round.

 

I haven't copped it too badly as I left once I found out, yet I can understand the emotional pain OW are going through, I cannot understand the mindset that somehow they are not entitled to feel the pain and confusion they are going through. There are some that post here that I just shake my head at, by revelling in the victim role they've become demons themselves, bitter, cruel and damaging.

 

If people have been reading on this board for sometime and are yet to grasp that there is real pain, emotions and contributing factors affecting the OW then why bother coming here? Surely your motivation for joining any forum should be to learn and gain understanding, yet so many seem incapable of doing this - then accuse others of lacking empathy!!

 

Sorry this is a rant but Keira your story really got to me, you did not deserve what happened to you here. No one does. It feels like the last few weeks have been invaded by people intent on weilding their own bitter sword of morality to hurt those already in pain. It needs to stop, your story shows just how cruel and damaging this behaviour is.

 

Shattered lady, you're a truly beautiful human being, I hope more BW follow your example. Healing will never come if people envelop themselves in sainted victim hood and vitriol.

[winterkeep]

I wanted to add I do understand what BW go through as well. My ex H who was my childhood sweetheart who I had been with since I was 14, left me for another woman. His family were my family literally; I grew up back and fourth between foster care and my mother- his family were my stability.

 

I was unable to specialise in my career despite the effort I'd put into the very extensive university and post graduate training required to generalise as his military career had us moving around which meant I was isolated from friends as well. He was my centre of everything.

 

At the time there was a website around called TOW for other women, I made an account to pretend to be an OW so I could flame them but quickly found I couldn't do it. They were humans who were suffering too, and they were not my husbands OW.

 

It was devastating and admittedly years have passed but I do not believe it to be any worse than the pain of what I went through on discovering XMM was married when I was pregnant. I read here to see pregnant OW being told they were selfish and broken for keeping their babies and that their children would have terrible lives. I wish I hadn't. While I am completely responsible it did affect my decision to terminate my pregnancy and I regret it every day.

 

Because I had cut off XMM and was too ashamed to tell anyone else I had to go through it completely alone. This was a baby that I had thought I was having in a stable, loving relationship with a single man. Instead due to being without a support person I had to have a medical rather than surgical abortion. In other words I was induced to miscarry and had to suffer through every devastating aspect of it completely aware and alone, I still can't handle having a period.

 

I can't imagine suffering through that and reaching out for support only to be met with cruelty and abuse, hence I stayed well away from here. Keira you have my sincerest sympathy for your experience, I hope you are healing now.

 

And to those of you that come here to attack, take a good look at yourselves, you aren't victims, you're abusers.

[malvern99]

I could be totally off and none of this could make sense but I went through the exact same thing (minus the A) and I still have moments of serious lonliness and heartache missing my babies being with me all the time and figuring out what to do with myself when I don't have them distracting me.

 

Forgive me if I take this liberty, but I am genuinely curious. I know this thread is for Amillionpeices' benefit, and i do not mean to hijack it. You sound like you are or were genuinely unhappy with your lot in your marriage, and if you have not made the choice to address the deficiencies in your marriage by finding someone else outside your marriage, may I ask what kept you loyal to your marriage and family?

[malvern99]

Keiraglass I could not agree with your post more. I am horrified by the bitterness displayed by so many posters here. I understand that infidelity is a trigger subject for many, but for goodness sake if your pain is still so new that you need to attack a person also in pain then step away from the keyboard. There is a living, feeling and often hurting human being on the other end of the screen.

 

Most OW come here to deal with pain, mostly they are trying to work on leaving the a and the dealing with the emotional fallout, instead of being helped they are harmed further, it is so disgusting. And yes I mean it when I say harmed, anyone who comes here to attack is an emotional abuser and loses any right to think they hold some sort of moral high round.

 

I haven't copped it too badly as I left once I found out, yet I can understand the emotional pain OW are going through, I cannot understand the mindset that somehow they are not entitled to feel the pain and confusion they are going through. There are some that post here that I just shake my head at, by revelling in the victim role they've become demons themselves, bitter, cruel and damaging.

 

If people have been reading on this board for sometime and are yet to grasp that there is real pain, emotions and contributing factors affecting the OW then why bother coming here? Surely your motivation for joining any forum should be to learn and gain understanding, yet so many seem incapable of doing this - then accuse others of lacking empathy!!

 

Sorry this is a rant but Keira your story really got to me, you did not deserve what happened to you here. No one does. It feels like the last few weeks have been invaded by people intent on weilding their own bitter sword of morality to hurt those already in pain. It needs to stop, your story shows just how cruel and damaging this behaviour is.

 

Shattered lady, you're a truly beautiful human being, I hope more BW follow your example. Healing will never come if people envelop themselves in sainted victim hood and vitriol.

 

I couldn't disagree with your opinion more if I tried. I know people involved in A's post on this board about their pain and suffering in order to get some sort of support, but the harsh truth is that we live in the real world where factors other than their base desires are in play. Their "pain and suffering" is but a drop in an ocean compared to the pain and suffering their choices cause their SO's and their families. Forgive people if they point that fact out to people actively involved in destroying their family unit's existence. It is not out of malice, it is simply out of their own experience, because at the end of the day, it comes down to one simple question... what is the price you are willing to pay for your family unit?

 

In my eyes, and I may be wrong, but a man who shoots another man because of his own deficiencies has no right to wax lyrical about "his pain and life experiences" that led him to do what he did. Surely, his pain is irrelevant compared to the pain he caused not only to the man he shot, but to all those who loved that man. An unhappy person in a marriage has every right to end the marriage and seek out happiness for themselves. Nobody blinks an eyelid at that. That is healthy. Deciding to start a new relationship while still enmeshed in a marriage is the very opposite of healthy, and the fact that all our lives have been so affected by this issue that we are talking about this issue to strangers online is a testament to that. That type of deceit and manipulation has no place in a healthy adult.

 

Kieraglasses' story may be the most tragic one I have ever seen. Everything about it from her abusive exH to the loss of her newborn son is tear inducing. Nobody deserves that. I haven't read her thread so I can't speak to her insinuation that people were callous about her heart wrenching loss. If they were though, then f*ck'em. They are not the people to listen to anyway. Take what is helpful and leave the rest. However, if Kiera is conflating people telling her how insidious her A was to people celebrating her pain, then she may need to reevaluate her stance. With that said, if Kiera's exH was truly abusive (especially physically) then in spite of her personal tragedy, she has ended up ahead by losing an abusive spouse. I have zero tolerance with physically abusive spouses. That dog don't hunt with me.

[winterkeep]

I couldn't disagree with your opinion more if I tried

 

I'm unclear on what you disagree with as your post is somewhat tangential to mine.

 

Do you believe that it's ok to bully someone on an online forum or do you think that people you believe to be in the wrong have no right to seek and receive support? These were my points.

 

Nowhere am I insinuating that deceit is healthy, nor am I supporting infidelity; I do believe though that everyone deserves to be treated with compassion. I doubt that she is conflating advice with attacks, I've seen some pretty despicable posts here disguised as tough love or whatever people want to call it.

[sandylee1]

 

It was devastating and admittedly years have passed but I do not believe it to be any worse than the pain of what I went through on discovering XMM was married when I was pregnant.

 

 

Being deceived and lied to by MM not telling you he was married (then get pregnant) must be truly devastating. I had a guy not tell me he had a GF and that was bad enough. I ended it immediately.

I have a great deal of sympathy for what you went through with the lying cheat. It's one thing cheating..but not to tell your GF you're married is a whole other level.

 

Pain is pain ...... but the difference with the OW who know the man was married... is that they enter the affair with their eyes open. They agree to be part of the deception from day 1. They are not innocent victims in all this.

 

The reasons people get in an A vary.... but nothing changes the fact that the OW choose to get involved with a MM. They weren't forced or pushed into it. They may well have been pursued or seduced.. but as with everything in life.. One must accept personal responsibility for the situation they find themselves in and not place all the blame on the MM.

 

^^^^^^^^ This isn't about any specific OW.... it's a general observation.

 

Example ........ if you jump a stop sign and have an accident...who do you blame? The sign was there.. you saw it... you ignore it and step on the gas regardless.

 

I'm not a BW ... so I don't have the personal pain. In the cases of single OW ... I just wish women would not give these MM the power to hurt and use them as they do. I find it so frustrating that we (women) allow men to toy with our emotions..... and then go back to their unsuspecting spouses.

[Amillionpieces]

Being deceived and lied to by MM not telling you he was married (then get pregnant) must be truly devastating. I had a guy not tell me he had a GF and that was bad enough. I ended it immediately.

I have a great deal of sympathy for what you went through with the lying cheat. It's one thing cheating..but not to tell your GF you're married is a whole other level.

 

Pain is pain ...... but the difference with the OW who know the man was married... is that they enter the affair with their eyes open. They agree to be part of the deception from day 1. They are not innocent victims in all this.

 

The reasons people get in an A vary.... but nothing changes the fact that the OW choose to get involved with a MM. They weren't forced or pushed into it. They may well have been pursued or seduced.. but as with everything in life.. One must accept personal responsibility for the situation they find themselves in and not place all the blame on the MM.

 

^^^^^^^^ This isn't about any specific OW.... it's a general observation.

 

Example ........ if you jump a stop sign and have an accident...who do you blame? The sign was there.. you saw it... you ignore it and step on the gas regardless.

 

I'm not a BW ... so I don't have the personal pain. In the cases of single OW ... I just wish women would not give these MM the power to hurt and use them as they do. I find it so frustrating that we (women) allow men to toy with our emotions..... and then go back to their unsuspecting spouses.

 

 

As for me I'm not young or naive and MM is not manipulating me. He may be using me but it's very mutual. We're using each other to fill the voids we feel. It's not RIGHT but I am not being toyed with. Our eyes are wide open.

[Amillionpieces]

I'm finding all this talk very interesting. There is a lot of assumption going on about people in affairs. I know one thing for sure after 14 pages ... Everyone's story is different and also the same. It's a yearning for human connection that gets us into this mess. I have more to say but I'm pressed for time.

 

I thank everyone for their opinion. I came here because I'm feeling detached from my life at the moment and I have no one to talk to about it.

 

MM said once that I was his best friend. I told him in another life that could be true but since I can't call him to fix my broken switch and he can't call me to help him pick out a new coat ... We are not really best friends. It's the sad reality.

[sandylee1]

As for me I'm not young or naive and MM is not manipulating me. He may be using me but it's very mutual. We're using each other to fill the voids we feel. It's not RIGHT but I am not being toyed with. Our eyes are wide open.

 

I have to say that throughout this thread. ...you have taken ownership of the situation. Not for one second have you not owned it.

 

It just seems you have a marriage you're not happy in and the finances are the main reason you aren't leaving..... which I can empathise with.

 

Can I just ask ...

If you sat your H down and told him you weren't happy in the marriage and wanted a divorce...... do you think he'd be suprised?

Do you think he's happy in the marriage?

 

I'm just wondering if maybe you both feel the same. Some couples get to the point of agreeing it's not working .. but staying for the kids .

 

Meanwhile they have relationships with other people and just coparent together under the same roof where finances prevent seperate homes.

[Amillionpieces]

I have to say that throughout this thread. ...you have taken ownership of the situation. Not for one second have you not owned it.

 

It just seems you have a marriage you're not happy in and the finances are the main reason you aren't leaving..... which I can empathise with.

 

Can I just ask ...

If you sat your H down and told him you weren't happy in the marriage and wanted a divorce...... do you think he'd be suprised?

Do you think he's happy in the marriage?

 

I'm just wondering if maybe you both feel the same. Some couples get to the point of agreeing it's not working .. but staying for the kids .

 

Meanwhile they have relationships with other people and just coparent together under the same roof where finances prevent seperate homes.

 

Husband would not be surprised if I asked for divorce. He knows I'm unhappy.

 

But I can't see us staying under the same roof and seeing other people. I don't think I could handle that and I definitely don't think he could.

 

I don't know the answer. I always said I'd wait until the kids grew up. Less than 10 years left!!!

 

I have also decided to ramp up my business to make more money. If we can make enough money to pay for two households I'd feel a lot better in making a decision.

[Doublegold]

AMP your post says so much. Finances and children keep many an unhappy Marriage together, feelings be dammed. And I am not talking about another man, I am talking about your own feelings of unhappiness. No one is guaranteed a tomorrow--10 years could be the rest of your life.

 

Take care.

[MJJean]

We're not guaranteed even the next hour! But even if we were, even if we know we'll live til we're 100, you still can't get that 10 years back.

 

Neither can your kids. The marriage they see modeled for them is their template for the behavior of human beings who have pair bonded. It's not necessarily what the kids see and hear as much as what they DON'T see and hear that can be damaging. They may not be hearing their parents screaming at each other and they may not be seeing them throwing vases at each others heads, but they aren't seeing their parents having a warm, loving, and passionate relationship, either.

[Amillionpieces]

We're not guaranteed even the next hour! But even if we were, even if we know we'll live til we're 100, you still can't get that 10 years back.

 

Neither can your kids. The marriage they see modeled for them is their template for the behavior of human beings who have pair bonded. It's not necessarily what the kids see and hear as much as what they DON'T see and hear that can be damaging. They may not be hearing their parents screaming at each other and they may not be seeing them throwing vases at each others heads, but they aren't seeing their parents having a warm, loving, and passionate relationship, either.

 

We co parent well. That's true. My thought is that their security is more important than my feelings. That's why I won't take divorce lightly and that's why I stay. If I can make more money and maintain that I might reconsider.

 

I know having an A cannot be maintained. Something will have to give.

[LilMama1097]

Forgive me if I take this liberty, but I am genuinely curious. I know this thread is for Amillionpeices' benefit, and i do not mean to hijack it. You sound like you are or were genuinely unhappy with your lot in your marriage, and if you have not made the choice to address the deficiencies in your marriage by finding someone else outside your marriage, may I ask what kept you loyal to your marriage and family?

 

He actually ended up cheating on me because I wouldn't let him touch me. We went as fat as marriage counseling but ended up divorced 6 years ago.

[malvern99]

But I can't see us staying under the same roof and seeing other people. I don't think I could handle that and I definitely don't think he could.

 

Wait a second. Are you saying that you could not handle knowing your BH was seeing other people while living under the same roof?

 

To the person who said something about supporting people on this forum, I completely agree with you. People come here for support, but with that said, can you support someone without telling them the truth as you perceive it? I don't think you can. Doing so is just enabling in my opinion. My truth may not be easy for OP to hear or be popular, but I believe people come here to hear different opinions. If OP thinks I am being mean or unhelpful, she only has to say so, and I will leave the thread without looking back.

[malvern99]

He actually ended up cheating on me because I wouldn't let him touch me. We went as fat as marriage counseling but ended up divorced 6 years ago.

 

I'm sorry LilMama. I may have misunderstood his post, but he left the impression that he held out on his temptation and stayed loyal to the M. I hope you are in a better place today.

[sandylee1]

Husband would not be surprised if I asked for divorce. He knows I'm unhappy.

 

But I can't see us staying under the same roof and seeing other people. I don't think I could handle that and I definitely don't think he could.

 

I don't know the answer. I always said I'd wait until the kids grew up. Less than 10 years left!!!

 

I have also decided to ramp up my business to make more money. If we can make enough money to pay for two households I'd feel a lot better in making a decision.

 

At least he won't be blindsided then.

 

It just seems like a long time to wait till the kids grow up though. I realise that you are putting their stability over your feelings in all this.

 

When you say you couldn't handle it .. that makes me think you do have a fair amount of love for your husband ... or him being with someone else wouldn't bother you quite so much. But I don't mean either of you would blatantly bring the other people to your home or anything like that.

 

 

I agree with MJ about what the kids don't see as well. Many people say we don't fight or argue ... but what they don't see is affection and love.. they grow up thinking that's normal and find it hard to develop successful relationships in the future.

 

I can see that you're really in a tight spot...and primarily because of the finances.

[RySant]

I realise that you are putting their stability over your feelings in all this.

 

What's wrong with thinking about their kids' stability over her feelings?

[Amillionpieces]

At least he won't be blindsided then.

 

It just seems like a long time to wait till the kids grow up though. I realise that you are putting their stability over your feelings in all this.

 

When you say you couldn't handle it .. that makes me think you do have a fair amount of love for your husband ... or him being with someone else wouldn't bother you quite so much. But I don't mean either of you would blatantly bring the other people to your home or anything like that.

 

 

I agree with MJ about what the kids don't see as well. Many people say we don't fight or argue ... but what they don't see is affection and love.. they grow up thinking that's normal and find it hard to develop successful relationships in the future.

 

I can see that you're really in a tight spot...and primarily because of the finances.

 

Staying in the same (tiny) house with all the kids and all the animals and living the same life except we stop having sex and see other people - is not a lifestyle I'm interested in. Yes there would be jealousy in both ends that's human nature. Sounds a little too bohemian free love for me but hey - if some can pull that off more power to them.

 

Husband had a chat with me last night about my unhappiness. Told me he just wants me to be happy even if it means I leave. He broke my heart telling me he loves me enough to let me go if that's what I want but that he really wants me to stay and to be happy with him. It was gut wrenching. So much so that I'm paranoid he suspects.

 

All my conflicting feelings end here with the title of this thread. I am ruined. Before I was unhappy. Now I am still unhappy as well as deeply flawed and ashamed.

[sandylee1]

 

Husband had a chat with me last night about my unhappiness. Told me he just wants me to be happy even if it means I leave. He broke my heart telling me he loves me enough to let me go if that's what I want but that he really wants me to stay and to be happy with him. It was gut wrenching. So much so that I'm paranoid he suspects.

 

 

That's so sad to hear... ...it must have been very emotional for you.... if only there was a way you could be happy with him.... that would be the best.

 

It must have taken a lot of courage him to say that... and he probably knows deep down the reason you're still there.

 

 

Is it a case of you've outgrown him? Or you don't have the attraction or desire for him physically?

Do you feel you've lost the connection with him?

Does he not 'do it' for you anymore?

 

I hope you don't think I'm being intrusive.....I'm just trying to see if there's a way to turn things around........ I'm probably being too optimistic....

 

Is a different way he could be /behave that would make it better?

 

If you each were to independently write down the type of marriage you wanted..and what you'd like from the other person....it could help you to see how far apart or indeed how close you are...in terms of feelings.

 

Have you considered marriage counselling at all?

[LimeBlue]

Husband had a chat with me last night about my unhappiness. Told me he just wants me to be happy even if it means I leave. He broke my heart telling me he loves me enough to let me go if that's what I want but that he really wants me to stay and to be happy with him. It was gut wrenching. So much so that I'm paranoid he suspects.

 

All my conflicting feelings end here with the title of this thread. I am ruined. Before I was unhappy. Now I am still unhappy as well as deeply flawed and ashamed.

 

My heart breaks reading this. I read it over again, putting myself in your shoes and heard it as if my own husband was saying that to me, which I believe he actually would be able to say to me. Truth is, is that I want that too. I want to be happy with my husband but it is just not there. Do you feel the same? Do you feel you want to be happy with him, if you could? If only I could reach that point, then my MM would become defunct in my life seeing that MM lies to me about leaving his wife. It makes me wonder why I bother when I have a good husband, if only I could connect with my husband. But I can't, it is not there, husband lives with his head in the sand and cannot even hold a conversation with me long enough to finish what we are talking about before he goes back to watching TV

[Amillionpieces]

That's so sad to hear... ...it must have been very emotional for you.... if only there was a way you could be happy with him.... that would be the best.

 

It must have taken a lot of courage him to say that... and he probably knows deep down the reason you're still there.

 

 

Is it a case of you've outgrown him? Or you don't have the attraction or desire for him physically?

Do you feel you've lost the connection with him?

Does he not 'do it' for you anymore?

 

I hope you don't think I'm being intrusive.....I'm just trying to see if there's a way to turn things around........ I'm probably being too optimistic....

 

Is a different way he could be /behave that would make it better?

 

If you each were to independently write down the type of marriage you wanted..and what you'd like from the other person....it could help you to see how far apart or indeed how close you are...in terms of feelings.

 

Have you considered marriage counselling at all?

 

Thank you. I am having a super hard day. Can't stop crying.

 

It's our dynamic that I don't like. In 24 years we've never danced together even though we both dance separately when out with friends. He avtually says he's not comfortable. He doesn't say my name unless he's mad at me. We've never sat and played cards. Stuff like that. 24 years we've never had mutual friends. I can't explain it. I've tried to fix it for years and years but nothing changes. It's like we're stuck in awkward teenage stage and we never got past that. I mean I can sit like a dirtbag and pick my toes and we're comfortable in that way but emotional comfort has always had a barrier that I don't understand. Before anyone starts in on the rewriting history crap - no. He's a good man and I should be happy but fact is I'm not and I haven't been in a long time.

 

I'm just going to cry and cry all day. Actually I'm going to run until I puke first.

[Amillionpieces]

And if you notice I did not compare him to MM nor do I think MM is the best thing in the world or anything like that. He's just a man that I get along with who likes me for me. He says my name often and looks me in the eye and generally has made me unable to ignore the problems in my marriage.

 

I don't even want to see MM right now. I don't want to see husband either.

 

I want to run away. If I didn't have three kids I'd already be on the next plane out of town.

 

Crying. Still crying. Can't stop crying.

[LimeBlue]

It's our dynamic that I don't like. In 24 years we've never danced together even though we both dance separately when out with friends. He avtually says he's not comfortable. He doesn't say my name unless he's mad at me. We've never sat and played cards. Stuff like that. 24 years we've never had mutual friends. I can't explain it. I've tried to fix it for years and years but nothing changes. It's like we're stuck in awkward teenage stage and we never got past that. I mean I can sit like a dirtbag and pick my toes and we're comfortable in that way but emotional comfort has always had a barrier that I don't understand. Before anyone starts in on the rewriting history crap - no. He's a good man and I should be happy but fact is I'm not and I haven't been in a long time.

 

This is EXACTLY how my marriage is as well. My husband is a good man too, I want for nothing, he denies me nothing (except a connection and closeness), we have a good life on the outside, we have no money problems, no family problems, nothing. Except we live like room mates and I have tried and tried to create a marriage and I have hit my head on the same brick wall so many times that I am tired of trying.

 

My affair partner is everything I have wanted but never received from my husband.

 

I don't know what to do. Perhaps I too, am ruined.

 

And if you notice I did not compare him to MM nor do I think MM is the best thing in the world or anything like that. He's just a man that I get along with who likes me for me. He says my name often and looks me in the eye and generally has made me unable to ignore the problems in my marriage.

 

It is impossible to compare two men - the husband and affair partner. However, it is possible to compare what is lacking in the marriage to what the affair partner brings. I have found myself doing this, I cannot help it. It highlights all that is wrong in my marriage, and it highlights all that I want from my marriage but cannot achieve no matter how hard I have tried.

 

I went through years and years of IC because my husband refused to join me. None of it helped. If it had helped, I wouldn't be crying over another married man who I connected with on such a deep level that I never thought possible. If only I could have that with my husband.

Edited January 12, 2016 by LimeBlue

[purplesorrow]

This is EXACTLY how my marriage is as well. My husband is a good man too, I want for nothing, he denies me nothing (except a connection and closeness), we have a good life on the outside, we have no money problems, no family problems, nothing. Except we live like room mates and I have tried and tried to create a marriage and I have hit my head on the same brick wall so many times that I am tired of trying.

 

My affair partner is everything I have wanted but never received from my husband.

 

I don't know what to do. Perhaps I too, am ruined.

 

 

 

It is impossible to compare two men - the husband and affair partner. However, it is possible to compare what is lacking in the marriage to what the affair partner brings. I have found myself doing this, I cannot help it. It highlights all that is wrong in my marriage, and it highlights all that I want from my marriage but cannot achieve no matter how hard I have tried.

 

I went through years and years of IC because my husband refused to join me. None of it helped. If it had helped, I wouldn't be crying over another married man who I connected with on such a deep level that I never thought possible. If only I could have that with my husband.

 

With your husband meeting so many of your other needs, it looks like mm's job here is pretty simple. Would he be able to maintain what your husband does? What have you tried with your husband to change things?