A little Update

[Whoknew30]

Whoknew:

 

This is from my own perspective and experience only:

 

I agreed to have an affair with my OW only because she was pushy about it, eager and available. That's the only reason.

 

The OW was definitely in my case inferior to my wife in looks, personality, intellect, etc, but even if she had been superior to my wife. I was still in love with my wife and had no intention of leaving her. .....ever.....for anyone.

 

I had been approached by women wanting affairs for years, and always turned them down. The OW just got me at a stupidly weak moment.

 

Personally, all but a handful of the women who hinted that they wanted an affair were superior to my wife in looks or intellect. All were inferior in the morality department, just like I was.

 

 

Liam, since your first post. I could tell that you truly feel remorse. You came clean & you take full responsibility for your actions. You know you were damaged somewhere & came clean. You would have left OW out of it but she's a rare case of crazy that keeps trying.

 

You say no one can compare to your wife, simply bc you love her...yet you own you & OW are damaged somewhere.

 

I've not read one post, where you ever had an excuse or have truly taken responsibility for what you've done...I respect that & you should keep that up! Plus bc you're a nice guy, you still didn't want anything bad to happen to OW, shows you're caring.

 

I can understand being weak (bc i was at one point) but no matter how much someone pushes something, as an adult is ultimately your decision. I can have someone stick drugs in my face all night, if I chose to do them, it's not the other person's fault...just my own.

[Gigi2015]

Liam, since your first post. I could tell that you truly feel remorse. You came clean & you take full responsibility for your actions. You know you were damaged somewhere & came clean. You would have left OW out of it but she's a rare case of crazy that keeps trying.

 

You say no one can compare to your wife, simply bc you love her...yet you own you & OW are damaged somewhere.

 

I've not read one post, where you ever had an excuse or have truly taken responsibility for what you've done...I respect that & you should keep that up! Plus bc you're a nice guy, you still didn't want anything bad to happen to OW, shows you're caring.

 

I can understand being weak (bc i was at one point) but no matter how much someone pushes something, as an adult is ultimately your decision. I can have someone stick drugs in my face all night, if I chose to do them, it's not the other person's fault...just my own.

 

 

You're right and sometimes issues are ignored because drama takes center stage. Why did he cheat to begin with. Why did he NOT feel the need to protect his bond with his wife? Why did he CHOOSE to not respect boundaries? In my humble estimation if you don't explore why....it'll happen again.

[Liam1]

I can understand being weak (bc i was at one point) but no matter how much someone pushes something, as an adult is ultimately your decision. I can have someone stick drugs in my face all night, if I chose to do them, it's not the other person's fault...just my own.

 

I never said it was not my decision to take the bait.

 

I would never be so insane as to try to sell the idea to my wife that I could not make my own decision because I was somehow under the spell of the OW.

 

There was no spell.

 

My wife knows I am an intelligent, take charge type of guy. So she would never buy such an excuse.

 

I am simply explaining to the thread starter that there was never any comparison between my OW and Wife. Also, I was never in competition with her husband.

 

It was never that my wife was chosen because she was better. Even if the affair partner were better, I would have never left my wife.

 

Choice never entered my mind. The affair was an extra curricular activity, nothing more, at least in my case. Mileage may vary for others.

 

My point is, it wasn't that I was "just not that into" my wife. The truth is: "I was just not that into" the OW......any OW. I wasn't looking to leave my wife. I liked being married to her.

 

As far as damaged. I don't think an affair ALWAYS means the person who has one is psychologically damaged. Maybe in some cases but not all.

 

Simple curiosity may be a factor. Sometimes a man is open to an affair because his wife is no longer interested in sex, but the man still loves his wife.

 

If a man's wife refuses him sex, does that mean the man is psychologically damaged? Or is it the wife who may be physically or psychologically damage?

 

IMO, many times the person who has an affair, when it is out of character for them, was in the wrong place at the right time or the right place and the right time.

 

The affair was more about being too weak to turn down a blatant invitation for SUPPOSEDLY, no strings, carefree, responsibility free sex with someone new.

 

Being weak does not always equate to psychologically damaged.

 

It was simply a matter of curiosity and wanting to revisit those first date feelings and being offered an opportunity to do so at the wrong time in my life.

 

An affair is like a perennial first date. It's not even a real dating relationship and it's definitely not comparable to a long term marriage.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Liam1

[Gigi2015]

I never said it was not my decision to take the bait.

 

I would never be so insane as to try to sell the idea to my wife that I could not make my own decision because I was somehow under the spell of the OW.

 

There was no spell.

 

My wife knows I am an intelligent, take charge type of guy. So she would never buy such an excuse.

 

I am simply explaining to the thread starter that there was never any comparison between my OW and Wife. Also, I was never in competition with her husband.

 

It was never that my wife was chosen because she was better. Even if the affair partner were better, I would have never left my wife.

 

Choice never entered my mind. The affair was an extra curricular activity, nothing more, at least in my case. Mileage may vary for others.

 

My point is, it wasn't that I was "just not that into" my wife. The truth is: "I was just not that into" the OW......any OW. I wasn't looking to leave my wife. I liked being married to her. Why was it worth the risk??

 

As far as damaged. I don't think an affair ALWAYS means the person who has one is psychologically damaged. Maybe in some cases but not all.

 

Simple curiosity may be a factor. Sometimes a man is open to an affair because his wife is no longer interested in sex, but the man still loves his wife.

 

If a man's wife refuses him sex, does that mean the man is psychologically damaged? Or is it the wife who may be physically or psychologically damage?

 

IMO, many times the person who has an affair, when it is out of character for them, was in the wrong place at the right time or the right place and the right time.

 

The affair was more about being too weak to turn down a blatant invitation for SUPPOSEDLY, no strings, carefree, responsibility free sex with someone new.

 

Being weak does not always equate to psychologically damaged.

 

It was simply a matter of curiosity and wanting to revisit those first date feelings and being offered an opportunity to do so at the wrong time in my life.

 

An affair is like a perennial first date. It's not even a real dating relationship and it's definitely not comparable to a long term marriage.

 

Yes...it wasn't all that to you. You're wife is still going to wonder why it was worth you risking your marriage! At some point you realize some things aren't worth the risk....

[Whoknew30]

I never said it was not my decision to take the bait.

 

I would never be so insane as to try to sell the idea to my wife that I could not make my own decision because I was somehow under the spell of the OW.

 

There was no spell.

 

My wife knows I am an intelligent, take charge type of guy. So she would never buy such an excuse.

 

I am simply explaining to the thread starter that there was never any comparison between my OW and Wife. Also, I was never in competition with her husband.

 

It was never that my wife was chosen because she was better. Even if the affair partner were better, I would have never left my wife.

 

Choice never entered my mind. The affair was an extra curricular activity, nothing more, at least in my case. Mileage may vary for others.

 

My point is, it wasn't that I was "just not that into" my wife. The truth is: "I was just not that into" the OW......any OW. I wasn't looking to leave my wife. I liked being married to her.

 

As far as damaged. I don't think an affair ALWAYS means the person who has one is psychologically damaged. Maybe in some cases but not all.

 

Simple curiosity may be a factor. Sometimes a man is open to an affair because his wife is no longer interested in sex, but the man still loves his wife.

 

If a man's wife refuses him sex, does that mean the man is psychologically damaged? Or is it the wife who may be physically or psychologically damage?

 

IMO, many times the person who has an affair, when it is out of character for them, was in the wrong place at the right time or the right place and the right time.

 

The affair was more about being too weak to turn down a blatant invitation for SUPPOSEDLY, no strings, carefree, responsibility free sex with someone new.

 

Being weak does not always equate to psychologically damaged.

 

It was simply a matter of curiosity and wanting to revisit those first date feelings and being offered an opportunity to do so at the wrong time in my life.

 

An affair is like a perennial first date. It's not even a real dating relationship and it's definitely not comparable to a long term marriage.

 

 

I agree with a lot of this...this is why IMO I think you're a man that has taken full responsibility. You never lied about it, just being sex & you own it. As wrong as it is, it's healthy in reconciliation. Most WH, lie & Chase & blow smoke up the OW ass, cut down their wife & act as they have the absolutely worst home life. Then turn around & say, I A down, she doesn't compare to you & bla bla bla. Then act as they don't know why OW is bad mouthing their wife & why their so upset & now she's crazy. If seen this, time & time & time again.

 

You're very much not a typical WH. You own you were weak but don't go into a whole back story of an excuse. Motive & excuse are two different things.

 

Do I think everyone that has an A has physiological problems, no of course not. I never said that...but if you go tell a AP how much you love them & want to be with them, then you dick them over & act like they were all the problem, then yes...there's something wrong with you.

[Liam1]

 

Do I think everyone that has an A has physiological problems, no of course not. I never said that...but if you go tell a AP how much you love them & want to be with them, then you dick them over & act like they were all the problem, then yes...there's something wrong with you.

 

Your compliments are very kind. However, IMO, what I did was wrong and I don't feel I deserve compliments for any aspect of it. The entire situation makes me feel queasy, when I think of it.

 

Here's the thing.

 

When two people engage in an affair, whether both are married or just one is married. It should be a foregone conclusion that the affair is a fantasy relationship.

 

An affair, by definition, is not meant to replace a spouse. It is meant to be a distraction from reality....a revisiting of youth or a first date feeling, etc.

 

Otherwise, if an affair partner is looking to get out of an unhappy marriage, what they are really doing is mate poaching. It is no longer an affair, it is something different.

[Whoknew30]

Your compliments are very kind. However, IMO, what I did was wrong and I don't feel I deserve compliments for any aspect of it. The entire situation makes me feel queasy, when I think of it.

 

Here's the thing.

 

When two people engage in an affair, whether both are married or just one is married. It should be a foregone conclusion that the affair is a fantasy relationship.

 

An affair, by definition, is not meant to replace a spouse. It is meant to be a distraction from reality....a revisiting of youth or a first date feeling, etc.

 

Otherwise, if an affair partner is looking to get out of an unhappy marriage, what they are really doing is mate poaching. It is no longer an affair, it is something different.

 

I'm complimenting you bc I have so much experience with men that have had A & it's always refreshing for me to see (read in this case) a man that has truly taken responsibility without having to be a jerk about it.

 

I think it also depends on the length of the A, for anyone. Infatuation & that new feeling only last for so long. If two people find themselves in a really long term A, I think actual feelings at some point will occur...IMO. That's the problem with A, it can start out as one thing & lead to another, there isn't (obviously) any set rules.

[sandylee1]

It's one thing to realize you don't like living a lie & to come clean & let your spouse know you feel bad what you've done to them...to say they weren't as good as my spouse...all I hear is " I ended the A bc they weren't as good as you"...my question to that is (& was) what if she had been? Did you come back bc you truly love me or did you pit us against each other as to "who's better".

 

I wouldn't have wanted my H back if that's what it was, I wanted him back bc he actually loved me & felt bad, not as second string...& saying I realized my AP is a downgrade just would have let me know, that he played both sides waiting to see who was better! Screw that!

 

He is entitled to say his wife is better than the OW if he chooses. I see nothing wrong with that. His wife IS better than the OW as far as morals are concerned.

 

Theone... I'm glad you realised this. I think I recall this OW not giving a damn about your wife and her email or message just shows that. Your wife hasn't done anything to her..yet she feels the need to insult instead of apologise to her.

 

She has shown her true colours ....as a nasty broken and desperate woman...who keeps throwing herself at a MM.

 

So kudos to you for being on the mend with this....valuing your wife and realising what the OW is made off.

 

Well done on your hard work.

[Liam1]

 

I think it also depends on the length of the A, for anyone. Infatuation & that new feeling only last for so long. If two people find themselves in a really long term A, I think actual feelings at some point will occur...IMO. That's the problem with A, it can start out as one thing & lead to another, there isn't (obviously) any set rules.

 

Yes. I have mentioned many times that this is my own experience and mileage may vary.

 

I do think that a higher percentage of women (not all) are more likely to want a relationship and feel somewhat used when the man wants to end the affair.

 

I see it here in this forum. There are very few men pining about the affair partner in comparison to women.

 

I think the length of the affair has very little to do with what is said in the affair.

 

A true affair is a fantasy and some men or women will stupidly say misleading fantastical things to the affair partner and then regret it later. I did not, but I do think I am likely an exception.

 

If the wayward spouse is thinking of leaving the loyal spouse, then the affair may turn into a relationship. But, IMO, the thought of leaving the spouse preceded the affair in some form.

 

Perhaps in those cases, a man may be initially claiming he wants to stay married as a way to determine whether or not he wants to marry the affair partner or keep looking for someone to take the place of the wife.

[sandylee1]

Like I said, it's one thing to realize you screwed up but he mentions God & then I A down...when you really feel bad about something you've done, you don't have to cut down another person (or shouldn't have to) to make yourself or anyone else feel better. IMO that isn't coming from a good place either.

 

I felt no need to down my ExOM bc he's a person, just like me & my H. He truly didn't matter in our reconciliation. I came back bc I realized was wrong, not bc he was some gross guy. When my H started speaking that way about his ExOW, he said that's what he thought I wanted to hear, I said no.

 

 

If my H was sleeping with someone he said was gross, I really wouldn't have wanted him bc if she was gross, then what is he for sleeping with her? & why do you or your H even know or care what ExOW is doing if reconciled? It doesn't matter. I'd be embarrassed that my H touched someone that was supposedly so "embarrassing".

 

 

Everyone is different.

 

You see no need to say any bad about your ex OM..A that's up to you.

 

The OP has come to see his ex OW as affairing down.

 

That's how he feels and is saying it to anonymous people online...so it's his truth.

 

Perhaps you're thinking you wouldn't like to be spoken of like this by your exOM.....

 

Thinking of her like this bursts the affair bubble and helps to never go back.

 

Her horrible language towards his wife is evidence of his opinion.

[Whoknew30]

He is entitled to say his wife is better than the OW if he chooses. I see nothing wrong with that. His wife IS better than the OW as far as morals are concerned.

 

Theone... I'm glad you realised this. I think I recall this OW not giving a damn about your wife and her email or message just shows that. Your wife hasn't done anything to her..yet she feels the need to insult instead of apologise to her.

 

She has shown her true colours ....as a nasty broken and desperate woman...who keeps throwing herself at a MM.

 

So kudos to you for being on the mend with this....valuing your wife and realising what the OW is made off.

 

Well done on your hard work.

 

Why would OW give a damn about his W when all his actions showed he didn't care (at the time) about his own wife?

[OneLov]

I see it here in this forum. There are very few men pining about the affair partner in comparison to women.

 

I see very few men openly express their emotions in real life. I've actually never seen my step-dad cry, or say he was feeling down. He's a "man's" man. Even when his mother died he was fighting so hard not to express his emotions. He was choking back on the tears but could not let them fall.

 

I can only speak for myself, but as a man, I feel a lot of emotions. But I rarely communicate them. Idk why. I like to be alone when I'm upset, and I absolutely hate talking about whatever is causing me anxiety. I tend to only ask for advice once my emotions have settled and can think logically.

[RySant]

Yes. I have mentioned many times that this is my own experience and mileage may vary.

 

I do think that a higher percentage of women (not all) are more likely to want a relationship and feel somewhat used when the man wants to end the affair.

 

I see it here in this forum. There are very few men pining about the affair partner in comparison to women.

 

I think the length of the affair has very little to do with what is said in the affair.

 

A true affair is a fantasy and some men or women will stupidly say misleading fantastical things to the affair partner and then regret it later. I did not, but I do think I am likely an exception.

 

If the wayward spouse is thinking of leaving the loyal spouse, then the affair may turn into a relationship. But, IMO, the thought of leaving the spouse preceded the affair in some form.

 

Perhaps in those cases, a man may be initially claiming he wants to stay married as a way to determine whether or not he wants to marry the affair partner or keep looking for someone to take the place of the wife.

 

I know this is a stupid question, but I just can't help it: If you found yourself in a weak moment again, and an opportunity arises that someone will present herself to you for that extra-curricular activity, how confident are you that you can take her down? This is a mind over matter situation.

[Whoknew30]

Everyone is different.

 

You see no need to say any bad about your ex OM..A that's up to you.

 

The OP has come to see his ex OW as affairing down.

 

That's how he feels and is saying it to anonymous people online...so it's his truth.

 

Perhaps you're thinking you wouldn't like to be spoken of like this by your exOM.....

 

Thinking of her like this bursts the affair bubble and helps to never go back.

 

Her horrible language towards his wife is evidence of his opinion.

 

 

No, I'm thinking he lied a lot to OW & made her think he was leaving (going by his post) OW only can go by what WH is saying & showing. My OM was not married, so it was all on me & what he thought of my H is what he got from me. It's called once again, taking true responsibility. Of course she's not going to say nice things, he hurt too! Is that her fault of course but why in society we always make the woman the devil. Most people that have A aren't the devil, they made a bad choice & at that time fell for the wrong person.

 

& IMO, it makes it worse to risk your family for someone you think of like that. I'm a pretty secure person & don't need to hear negativity about someone to feel better about my marriage. If the only reason my H didn't leave is bc the OW wasn't as good as me, I'd rather not have my H...bc what happens if he does it again & the next "is better"?

 

You shouldn't have A bc it's wrong & you reconcile bc you knew it was wrong & want your marriage back bc the love for your wife...not bc the AP wasn't as good. IMO, all your saying is I tried to find something else better, it didn't work out & now I'm back with you bc you'll forgive me.

 

I could never reconciled if that's how my H truly felt.

 

You're right to each is own but as a BW I would take that as such an insult.

[OneLov]

I know this is a stupid question, but I just can't help it: If you found yourself in a weak moment again, and an opportunity arises that someone will present herself to you for that extra-curricular activity, how confident are you that you can take her down? This is a mind over matter situation.

 

This is not a stupid question. I think it's a fundamental question regarding reconciliation. It also highlights the danger that rug sweeping (minimizing) brings to the viability of reconciliation. I know Liam that you've gone to counseling to work on you, so this comment doesn't apply to you. But I think it would be very difficult to reconcile with someone who cannot explain his/her behavior. It's a lot easier when you work with an IC to find issues in yourself that you can apply to help your reconciliation. But when it's the air? The water? Santa Claus? How can anyone truly develop trust again?

[RySant]

The reason why I asked and the reason why I used Liam's case as an example in my question is because he was able to document his story in a very detailed manner that I believe everyone was able to understand all angles (a sign of good communication skills to you, Liam!) so I was able to relate and at least guess what his wife is currently undergoing as a betrayed spouse:

 

I believe Liam's wife as someone who truly loved Liam, deep in her core. Because there is no sane or sensible woman who will logically stay to someone who managed to hurt them this much. And I am sorry, hurt is such a great understatement to the feeling imposed by such kind of betrayal, especially coming from a person whom we loved most. Many people brand women like these as crazy or weak, but for me there's also another option: Unconditional love. Liam's wife loved him unconditionally. And despite the great pain he caused, she stayed because she just can't continue to go on in life without him. She loved him, in all the sense that word can muster.

 

But I don't believe that betrayed spouses will be left unscathed with this kind of ordeal. I guess what I am trying to point out is that no matter how Liam's wife loved him, there is a huge shift in how she views him:

 

This person is the love of her life, her partner, her husband, her protector, her support in everything in life. And I believe she is all these to Liam too.

 

We all know that this kind of Great Love that we give to other people is also giving them the power to hurt us. Sometimes, we don't fully realize that. We don't worry about that. Liam's wife never worried about that possibility. Why? Because she TRUST him. By giving that kind of love, to be able to fully give ourselves to another, there is no way that we can't give that very strong kind of Trust(I emphasize this with a big T, as this is a different kind of trust, a strong one for that matter)

 

Because of this TRUST that we have for our significant one, we are able to give that kind of love completely. Because there is no other way. We can;t fully love someone without trusting them. The greater the love, the greater the trust. This kind of love that we have for our Significant One is so special, it can't even compare to the love that we have for our friends, family, or any other thing in this world. That may be the reason why we call our significant others as The One. (I hope you are getting me)

 

So I can only imagine the pain that Betrayed Spouses feel when that kind of Trust is shattered by the very person they gave their heart to. So going back, no matter how Liam's wife loved him, (or any other spouse who chose to stay after their WS's affair) I can only imagine that automatic "safe feeling" is completely gone, replaced by a sudden "alertness," or "guarded" feeling as a response to that "great letdown" she felt.

 

This kind of betrayal, when the Cheating partner shattered that kind of Trust, can be mind-blowing. People kill because of this, some goes insane, some people kill themselves. It's the ultimate act of love a human can give, so betrayals like these can alter one's soul forever.

 

So, after all these self-reflection, I guess the point of my question is, since Liam and his Wife decided to stay together, how on earth can they rebuild that kind of Trust? how on earth can Liam (or any other WS) can assure their spouses that it will never happen again? Can anyone really do that? Can any betrayed spouse fully trust their WS ever again? Because for me, situations like these will rob something to a person permanently. There is no way that it can go back to the way it was before: Memories are tainted, beliefs altered, views in life completely changed, a person's whole world will shift permanently. so, just how?

Edited February 5, 2016 by RySant

[Whoknew30]

Yes. I have mentioned many times that this is my own experience and mileage may vary.

 

I do think that a higher percentage of women (not all) are more likely to want a relationship and feel somewhat used when the man wants to end the affair.

 

I see it here in this forum. There are very few men pining about the affair partner in comparison to women.

 

I think the length of the affair has very little to do with what is said in the affair.

 

A true affair is a fantasy and some men or women will stupidly say misleading fantastical things to the affair partner and then regret it later. I did not, but I do think I am likely an exception.

 

If the wayward spouse is thinking of leaving the loyal spouse, then the affair may turn into a relationship. But, IMO, the thought of leaving the spouse preceded the affair in some form.

 

Perhaps in those cases, a man may be initially claiming he wants to stay married as a way to determine whether or not he wants to marry the affair partner or keep looking for someone to take the place of the wife.

 

 

 

I agree with WS was thinking about leaving at some point anyways...though it also depends on how someone got married. Not every couple gets married based 100% ready true love bases. Like in the case where a couple gets married after they've been together for years, or had a child & it's one of those poop or get off the pot scenarios. Most men, if they really want to marry you don't make a woman get to the point of threating "if you don't ask, I'm leaving" & I've see that SO many times. I cringe when I see that bc those couples (in my experience) always go through crap later on.

[sandylee1]

Why would OW give a damn about his W when all his actions showed he didn't care (at the time) about his own wife?

 

He made a poor choice at the time. Now he wants to save his marriage. So whether the OP lied to her or not ....she needs to grow up and stop being so stupid.

 

How naive to think someone lying to their wife may not be lying to you either. His wife did NOTHING to her...... so her behaviour now is simply trashy. This is how OW make the BW out to be the wicked witch.... quite simply the OW wasn't as special as she thought. ..and she needs to seek therapy for her neurotic behaviour.

 

Women are generally the ones with so much hate when an affair is over......this happens in normal relationships when they are over too. You don't usually hear about men throwing out her clothes and burning them or slashing tyres or other crazy behaviour. Not saying NEVER..Just USUALLY.

 

Women get too emotional about these things. One guy who was the OM said he just felt so ashamed and would never consider even saying anything bad about the husband. He was so ashamed he relocated to avoid bumping in to them.

[Whoknew30]

He made a poor choice at the time. Now he wants to save his marriage. So whether the OP lied to her or not ....she needs to grow up and stop being so stupid.

 

How naive to think someone lying to their wife may not be lying to you either. His wife did NOTHING to her...... so her behaviour now is simply trashy. This is how OW make the BW out to be the wicked witch.... quite simply the OW wasn't as special as she thought. ..and she needs to seek therapy for her neurotic behaviour.

 

Women are generally the ones with so much hate when an affair is over......this happens in normal relationships when they are over too. You don't usually hear about men throwing out her clothes and burning them or slashing tyres or other crazy behaviour. Not saying NEVER..Just USUALLY.

 

Women get too emotional about these things. One guy who was the OM said he just felt so ashamed and would never consider even saying anything bad about the husband. He was so ashamed he relocated to avoid bumping in to them.

 

 

I agree with your first part but I also think it's naive of the BW to think her H wasn't the one that put these things into OW head. That's part of the responsibility they need to own & not simply write it off as "she's crazy" bc between BW & OW there only one connection & that's the WH.

 

Women biologically & emotionally built to feel closer to a person when they have sex. Even if they're not going into for love, once sex happens, feelings build. Men are wired different but I also believe, without realizing it, us as a society make it a little easier for men to cheat vs women.

 

Look at this post as an example. OW-monster...WH- he messed up & now thinks of OW as a skany crazy hoe & I think women ourselves continue this to be ok. Goes back to the mentality "a guy gets high fived for having sex & the girl is the slut" when IMO, they're equal.

 

I grew up watching this with a lot of BW in my family. The WH returns to the family & almost thanked for coming back & the OW is the devil. IMO it's a coping mechanism for women, yet not a productive one bc it really takes away from the WH that put the BW in that position to begin with...that's why when I wanted to reconcile with my H I went the opposite way of everything i ever saw bc I refused to be stuck in that same mentality or make the same mistakes.

 

IMO, it doesn't matter the situation in life, wether you BS or WS...when you have to cut someone down to make yourself or anyone else feel better...it's counter productive & once again IMO, if it's not productive then it shouldn't be part of reconciliation...reconciliation is starting over (or trying) in a positive way.

[Gigi2015]

Very true Who Knew... I don't think all WH blame the "affair skank". Many do take FULL responsibility for their confusion/actions. But---I think it's an indicator that all is not well at the homestead when WS throw their APs under the bus....it shows immaturity.

[Midwestmissy]

Whoknew - the whole affair is an insult. My wh not thinking highly of his ow is not the most insulting part of the affair. It's just one thing - like taking the lid off a garbage can, letting the light in and watching all the cockroaches scatter. The whole thing sucked. Parsing it is just futile, since we each have a different threshold about what hurts us deeply. What I can say for certain is 2 married people cheating is just 2 effed up people effing, my wh said it and I'm inclined to believe it. In our case the mow wanted my life, which I've worked on and built for over 20 yrs with my wh. She was a parasite, and the affair was only the standard 6 or so months. Had she walked away quietly, or with any sense of self respect it would have been easier, but she was a pathetic 50 yr old married mother of 4 trying to be a minx after the fact.

[Liam1]

I see very few men openly express their emotions in real life. I've actually never seen my step-dad cry, or say he was feeling down. He's a "man's" man. Even when his mother died he was fighting so hard not to express his emotions. He was choking back on the tears but could not let them fall.

 

I can only speak for myself, but as a man, I feel a lot of emotions. But I rarely communicate them. Idk why. I like to be alone when I'm upset, and I absolutely hate talking about whatever is causing me anxiety. I tend to only ask for advice once my emotions have settled and can think logically.

 

Onelov:

 

I agree with you about MOST men not being able to express emotions.

 

I can't either. .....Not to in person, to people I know or care about.

 

I even have difficulty expressing things to the counselor but she is apparently very skilled and can pull things out of me.

 

That is why I am here on a message board.

 

It's much easier to open up on a message forum where no one knows me.

[Liam1]

 

But I don't believe that betrayed spouses will be left unscathed with this kind of ordeal. I guess what I am trying to point out is that no matter how Liam's wife loved him, there is a huge shift in how she views him:

 

This person is the love of her life, her partner, her husband, her protector, her support in everything in life. And I believe she is all these to Liam too.

 

Rysant:

 

That is an excellent question. You can ask me any question you like.

 

To answer: You are absolutely right. My wife will never feel 100 percent safe with me as she claims she did before the affair.

 

The MC says with time maybe 80 percent trust will come back.

 

The reality is likely that no one should ever trust another human being 100 percent. Trust but verify. Always.

 

She checks up on me now. Before the A she never did.

 

I am okay with that. I am now an open book and I actually like that, now. IMO, it has brought me closer to her, again.

 

Like most married couples we had drifted apart and we both had gotten too much into our own interests and had none that we shared, anymore. Not a good thing.

 

I am certain that she views me differently now and always will

 

To answer your other question....Will I cheat again. I personally will not.

 

I ended the affair because I did not like who I had become. I literally feel sick to my stomach, when I think about the affair.

 

Because of this TRUST that we have for our significant one, we are able to give that kind of love completely. Because there is no other way. We can;t fully love someone without trusting them. The greater the love, the greater the trust. This kind of love that we have for our Significant One is so special, it can't even compare to the love that we have for our friends, family, or any other thing in this world. That may be the reason why we call our significant others as The One. (I hope you are getting me)

I am getting you, and I am not offended by your thoughts.

 

I think though that you can love someone even if you don't trust them naively.

 

As mentioned, I don't think anyone should be trusted 100 percent. We are all human.

 

Still, there are ways, according to the MC to affair proof a marriage. It can be done by staying socially engaged. Not having boy's or girl's nights out. Doing things together. All those thing bond a couple.

 

We used to do that, but over the years we drifted into having separate lives.

 

So going back, no matter how Liam's wife loved him, (or any other spouse who chose to stay after their WS's affair) I can only imagine that automatic "safe feeling" is completely gone, replaced by a sudden "alertness," or "guarded" feeling as a response to that "great letdown" she felt.

Sadly this is all accurate. My wife has expressed this to me and to the counselor. She does however want our marriage to last. So we are both working on it together.

 

So, after all these self-reflection, I guess the point of my question is, since Liam and his Wife decided to stay together, how on earth can they rebuild that kind of Trust? how on earth can Liam (or any other WS) can assure their spouses that it will never happen again? Can anyone really do that? Can any betrayed spouse fully trust their WS ever again? Because for me, situations like these will rob something to a person permanently. There is no way that it can go back to the way it was before: Memories are tainted, beliefs altered, views in life completely changed, a person's whole world will shift permanently. so, just how?

Yes, the marriage is forever changed. We have to create a new marriage within our new normal.

 

I have to realize that my wife will forever be triggered by certain memories. I will have to deal with that. I love her, so I will. I guess she loves me so she is willing to endure it.

 

how on earth can Liam (or any other WS) can assure their spouses that it will never happen again?

A brick could fall on my head, as I walk out of my office and I might die.

 

There are no guarantees in life.

 

IMO, if you go through life, knowing that, then maybe the slings and arrows hurt a bit less. Seeing the realities of our humanity, maybe that prepares us in away for the negative things that may happen.

 

Rysant, what I am trying to say is..... don't let this fear of being hurt prevent you from finding someone to love. I can sense this fear as you write.

 

It's better to have loved and lost, then to never have loved at all, as the saying goes.

 

With your SO, trust but verify. Stay engaged with your SO. Realize that a marriage is always a work in progress and keep on working on it. (i hope you are getting me) I hope that helps.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Liam1
typo

[Whoknew30]

Whoknew - the whole affair is an insult. My wh not thinking highly of his ow is not the most insulting part of the affair. It's just one thing - like taking the lid off a garbage can, letting the light in and watching all the cockroaches scatter. The whole thing sucked. Parsing it is just futile, since we each have a different threshold about what hurts us deeply. What I can say for certain is 2 married people cheating is just 2 effed up people effing, my wh said it and I'm inclined to believe it. In our case the mow wanted my life, which I've worked on and built for over 20 yrs with my wh. She was a parasite, and the affair was only the standard 6 or so months. Had she walked away quietly, or with any sense of self respect it would have been easier, but she was a pathetic 50 yr old married mother of 4 trying to be a minx after the fact.

 

Ok but your H is too. She didn't put herself in your life he put her in your life. Just as your H was a parasite in her H life. My point, your WH & OW are on the exact same level. So if she's disgusting, so is he...they are equals.

 

Continuing to just put the blame or talk bad about AP, does what? How does it help you heal? Why is not disgusting to hear a man bash a woman he continually had sex with? How does that make WW feel better? What happened if she's wasn't "gross"? Would he have left WW?

[sandylee1]

Very true Who Knew... I don't think all WH blame the "affair skank". Many do take FULL responsibility for their confusion/actions. But---I think it's an indicator that all is not well at the homestead when WS throw their APs under the bus....it shows immaturity.

 

In many cases having the A is immature to begin with....so no suprise the AP gets thrown under a bus. Do they really expect otherwise? The reality is it shows how disposable the AP is. That's the cold harsh truth...and that's what you can expect when you have an affair. It's rather delusional to think otherwise. If the man/woman can lie to their spouse of X years...why would you think as the AP you're the chosen one? That's immaturity.

 

 

It's also the fear of divorce that makes the WS dump the AP.... they don't want divorce and they don't want the AP full time.

 

I've read a fair few threads where the WH was considering leaving his wife or had left the wife......but the OW talking badly about the wife made him see the OW as mean and unempathetic......and that's what's often made him go back to the wife or end the A. He now sees the OW isn't all sweet and nice.