A little Update

[OneLov]

Onelov:

 

I agree with you about MOST men not being able to express emotions.

 

I can't either. .....Not to in person, to people I know or care about.

 

I even have difficulty expressing things to the counselor but she is apparently very skilled and can pull things out of me.

 

That is why I am here on a message board.

 

It's much easier to open up on a message forum where no one knows me.

 

I agree. But my entire point was the analogy with my stepdad -- the fact that he did not cry was not proof that he did not hurt. He was worried people would judge him, and just like you or I, that perceived negative judgment makes him feel vulnerable. So he puts on a front.

 

So to the point that men (other men, boyfriends, husbands, life partners) feeling "it" less than women is, IMO, untrue. I think it's true they express their feelings concerning "it" less.

 

I think there's a more practical reason why OM don't pine on this forum. Accepting that men feel more vulnerable when expressing emotion, why would any OM pine on this forum when the majority of the responses are going to be rehashing how much of a scumbag he is, how he has no one but himself to blame, wishes for all the bad things in life to happen to him, etc.?

 

I think most understand that and are just trying find a way to look themselves in the mirror again. They betrayed themselves and they suffer their loss. They are broken. If reply after reply of essentially, "nana-nana-boo-boo, stick your head in doo doo," it's more practical to keep your bellyaching to yourself and tighten your belt.

[Ladyjane14]

The BEST thing a formerly wayward husband can do during reconciliation is to take off his rose-colored glasses and really LOOK at his former adultery partner to see what kind of person she is. What he's going to find every time.. is the kind of woman who would screw someone else's husband.

 

Men and women just aren't the same. Even their brain-wiring is different according to most of what I've read on the subject. Men have twenty times the testosterone level as women. This affects not only their bodies, but their minds as well. It makes them less anxious and more impulsive. And while they're emotionally just as deep and complex as women, their brains (having less connection between right and left hemispheres), take longer to sort emotional information.

 

Our society strives to be egalitarian in as many ways as possible, but in physiological terms, men and women are still very different critters. I personally find it easier to understand how a man, with 20 times the testosterone and with less ability to quickly sort complex emotional information, can get his mind messed up. I do find myself much more challenged to be sympathetic to women, who have the same tools in their kits as I have in mine, but choose to screw another woman's husband anyway.

 

And I don't buy into the argument that "others" aren't the ones who took the vows, so we shouldn't be mad at them. I never had to "vow" not to be an *******. I just choose not to be an *******. Pretty simple, really. Everybody knows you don't **** somebody else's spouse. It's poor form.

[Whoknew30]

The BEST thing a formerly wayward husband can do during reconciliation is to take off his rose-colored glasses and really LOOK at his former adultery partner to see what kind of person she is. What he's going to find every time.. is the kind of woman who would screw someone else's husband.

 

Men and women just aren't the same. Even their brain-wiring is different according to most of what I've read on the subject. Men have twenty times the testosterone level as women. This affects not only their bodies, but their minds as well. It makes them less anxious and more impulsive. And while they're emotionally just as deep and complex as women, their brains (having less connection between right and left hemispheres), take longer to sort emotional information.

 

Our society strives to be egalitarian in as many ways as possible, but in physiological terms, men and women are still very different critters. I personally find it easier to understand how a man, with 20 times the testosterone and with less ability to quickly sort complex emotional information, can get his mind messed up. I do find myself much more challenged to be sympathetic to women, who have the same tools in their kits as I have in mine, but choose to screw another woman's husband anyway.

 

And I don't buy into the argument that "others" aren't the ones who took the vows, so we shouldn't be mad at them. I never had to "vow" not to be an *******. I just choose not to be an *******. Pretty simple, really. Everybody knows you don't **** somebody else's spouse. It's poor form.

 

 

Yet that man is that same kind of man that will screw someone's wife.

 

Your post is exactly why men get away with what they do. They have control over their actions no different than a woman! Lol they can't control themselves bc of testosterone is like saying a woman can't control herself bc of estrogen! How absolutely ridiculous!

 

I'd be embarrassed to ever allow myself to EVER be so naive & in denial to think anything like that. & then be able to read & not think there's truly something wrong with me to be such an enabler.

 

This is why women are considered the weakest of the sexes, bc some man was able to truly make you think that way. Just extremely sad to me.

[Ladyjane14]

Yet that man is that same kind of man that will screw someone's wife.

 

Your post is exactly why men get away with what they do. They have control over their actions no different than a woman! Lol they can't control themselves bc of testosterone is like saying a woman can't control herself bc of estrogen! How absolutely ridiculous!

 

I'd be embarrassed to ever allow myself to EVER be so naive & in denial to think anything like that. & then be able to read & not think there's truly something wrong with me to be such an enabler.

 

This is why women are considered the weakest of the sexes, bc some man was able to truly make you think that way. Just extremely sad to me.

 

You're reading it wrong if you think I give cheating husbands a pass on their behavior. They certainly CAN control their choices. 'Don't-cheat-on-your-wife' is not terribly complicated, after all.

 

Biology is still biology though, whether you agree with it or not. Emotionally, even though they're less inclined to show it, men typically get "flooded" more easily than women and are physiologically more disposed to higher blood pressure and heart rates when it happens. That's just the way we're built.

 

So yeah... I can see how men can get their minds messed up in a way that I simply cannot identify with when it comes to adult women. I am an adult woman, and maybe it's because I'm not a naive one that I can't imagine letting somebody else's husband into my pants.

[Whoknew30]

You're reading it wrong if you think I give cheating husbands a pass on their behavior. They certainly CAN control their choices. 'Don't-cheat-on-your-wife' is not terribly complicated, after all.

 

Biology is still biology though, whether you agree with it or not. Emotionally, even though they're less inclined to show it, men typically get "flooded" more easily than women and are physiologically more disposed to higher blood pressure and heart rates when it happens. That's just the way we're built.

 

So yeah... I can see how men can get their minds messed up in a way that I simply cannot identify with when it comes to adult women. I am an adult woman, and maybe it's because I'm not a naive one that I can't imagine letting somebody else's husband into my pants.

 

 

Well it depends. Going by your logic, yes men get more physically excited, for women it would be more emotional. You get a WH that pulls the old "whoa is me" my life & wife suck & they go at a woman emotionally, there you go.

 

Not all affairs start off as, I want to just sleep with you. If a emotional connection is made, it makes it much easier for a woman to get sucked in. Men will give emotion just to get sex & some are not beyond making the BW look like a crazy woman...same men that once caught paints the AP as a crazy woman to the BS.

[Midwestmissy]

Whoknew, I think you're just looking for a fight - you've clearly been the ow, and that position argues its own way. I've not been in your shoes, so I wouldn't presume anything or judge. My wh has never blamed the mow more than himself - he's embarrassed that he fell for the same lines he was tossing out. He was her boss and legally has more to lose. He takes full responsibility for making decision after harmful decision. He wasn't lured, he walked into a mess fully on his own. The difference is he's remorseful, she couldn't let go. She made decisions after the fact that showed how low she was willing to go - and disrespected her own husband and children. She tried to take my place while I was away. During the affair they were equally vile. Afterwards she was pathetic. My wh is working on himself - she's moved onto another marriage. I know she feels nothing about her role, my wh does. He lost the respect of his family. He's trying to make amends. He badmouths himself, her name rarely comes up. She's not a part of his therapy, she was a willing wet hole, frankly. His issues are with himself. I write here because it's cathartic to me.

 

If it makes you feel better to keep hanging on to the fact that the ow is this misunderstood creature, that's fine, but I'm living with my own experience and I will judge the one mow who chose to remain in my life after the the affair was over. Because that's when she got really ugly and that's my one experience with an angry mow. There's no paintbrush that works across all affairs except that there are hundreds of lies. I don't claim to know anything more than the pile of crap that I've had to manage. And if managing it means protecting my family by bashing her here, I think it's a win.

[RySant]

Rysant, what I am trying to say is..... don't let this fear of being hurt prevent you from finding someone to love. I can sense this fear as you write.

 

It's better to have loved and lost, then to never have loved at all, as the saying goes.

 

With your SO, trust but verify. Stay engaged with your SO. Realize that a marriage is always a work in progress and keep on working on it. (i hope you are getting me) I hope that helps.

 

In time, Liam. I just have to fix the bad examples of all the adults in my life. I am scared to love not just because I am afraid to be hurt. I am scared that I might become my parents one day. People keep saying here that infidelity is a betrayal only to the wife. In my experience, it's a betrayal to the whole family including the children. When a cheating spouse cheats and is in love with the other woman, they do forget about their own children. These children are robbed to see their "cheating parent" when they wake up in the morning, have breakfast with them, going to their parent's room to say good night, living with both parents. These things have been taken away from them, and I don't understand why adults cannot understand that these simple things are very much important to kids. When I was a child, my parents are their whole world. And I believe that every child sees their parents as such too.

 

I remember during the earlier days of the separation of my parents, I was riding in a bus going home. I didn't know that the daughter of my father's OW is on the same bus. When I was about to disembark, I saw her disembarking first, she ran towards my father. He hugged her, took her luggage, and he looked at me. He just gave me a nod, and off they went to his car, arms draped on her as they walked towards his car, laughing as she is clearly telling how her day went to my dad. This is not his own daughter by the way. It's his step-daughter.

 

I will never forget that pain for the rest of my life. I rationalize it actually. Told myself that hey, I am a guy. I can take a cab to go home. Maybe he did this because she's a girl. But no matter what I do, I know for a fact that my own father chose to play father to someone else's child instead of his own.

 

Some people here will always view me as someone who is very judgmental to "OW/OM," to cheating spouses etc etc. But like all of you, you will also never understand how painful it is to be betrayed. To be robbed of something fundamental that no personal success can put a patch on. But I guess, love is too great to think of anything else... isn't it?

Edited February 6, 2016 by RySant

[Cloudcuckoo]

But that's the point - it's not embarrassing during the affair. She probably feels the same about my wh. As for why we know, she finds ways to let us know. We live 1000 miles away from her but there are industry co workers unaware of the affair who chit chat about people, including her. He tells me as a way of being transparent, she's not a topic of conversation.

 

This wasn't a situation with two upstanding honest star crossed lovers facing the challenges of the world - this was 2 liars lying and deceiving to get what they wanted. Of course he thinks she's awful because he thinks he's awful. Because they both behaved in ways that embarrassed and disrespected themselves and their loved ones. If my wh didn't feel gross about every aspect of this, and I think a lot of cheaters do, then he'd have no problem doing it again. He doesn't make excuses for himself. They risked 2 marriages, 7 kids' futures and a business that made them the 2 breadwinners. I wasn't the only hurt person, ask my teenager who found emails and wrote college essays about the day his childhood ended. She was known to the family peripheraly, try telling teens not to be grossed out and humiliated by who their father is choosing to spend time with. So embarrassing and disgusting applies in this situation.

 

It's like dirty dancing on the bar all night and waking up mortified. It seemed so fun at the time, but all you do now is cringe. And when I was single, I had relationships with people I thought were embarrassing and not partner material, I'm sure a lot of people have.

 

I couldn't agree with this more...my husband initially tried that old 'she manipulated me' chestnut, until I pointed out that he was not a dog in need of a lead because he didn't know which female to mate with, he was a grown man who made choices every single day that reflected who he was, so if his claims of his other woman being a conniving manipulating cow were correct, what did that make HIM in his continued involvement with her?...Quite...

 

OP, as my husband was, I suspect you discovered that your other woman was equally vile in her behaviour after the event as you were. Both culpable and responsible for behaving abominably to your poor wife who has now to clean up the devastation and debris of her shattered beliefs. Your (former?) other woman has absolutely no right to make assumptions and degrading remarks as to your wife's character. She does not know her, and it is now your job to protect her from it.

 

All said, I wish you both much luck on your journey to a new and healthier marriage, and if you ar truly genuine, you will reap the rewards of a live well lived with the love of your life.

 

My sincere best wishes to you both.

 

Cuckoo

[Cloudcuckoo]

The reason why I asked and the reason why I used Liam's case as an example in my question is because he was able to document his story in a very detailed manner that I believe everyone was able to understand all angles (a sign of good communication skills to you, Liam!) so I was able to relate and at least guess what his wife is currently undergoing as a betrayed spouse:

 

I believe Liam's wife as someone who truly loved Liam, deep in her core. Because there is no sane or sensible woman who will logically stay to someone who managed to hurt them this much. And I am sorry, hurt is such a great understatement to the feeling imposed by such kind of betrayal, especially coming from a person whom we loved most. Many people brand women like these as crazy or weak, but for me there's also another option: Unconditional love. Liam's wife loved him unconditionally. And despite the great pain he caused, she stayed because she just can't continue to go on in life without him. She loved him, in all the sense that word can muster.

 

But I don't believe that betrayed spouses will be left unscathed with this kind of ordeal. I guess what I am trying to point out is that no matter how Liam's wife loved him, there is a huge shift in how she views him:

 

This person is the love of her life, her partner, her husband, her protector, her support in everything in life. And I believe she is all these to Liam too.

 

We all know that this kind of Great Love that we give to other people is also giving them the power to hurt us. Sometimes, we don't fully realize that. We don't worry about that. Liam's wife never worried about that possibility. Why? Because she TRUST him. By giving that kind of love, to be able to fully give ourselves to another, there is no way that we can't give that very strong kind of Trust(I emphasize this with a big T, as this is a different kind of trust, a strong one for that matter)

 

Because of this TRUST that we have for our significant one, we are able to give that kind of love completely. Because there is no other way. We can;t fully love someone without trusting them. The greater the love, the greater the trust. This kind of love that we have for our Significant One is so special, it can't even compare to the love that we have for our friends, family, or any other thing in this world. That may be the reason why we call our significant others as The One. (I hope you are getting me)

 

So I can only imagine the pain that Betrayed Spouses feel when that kind of Trust is shattered by the very person they gave their heart to. So going back, no matter how Liam's wife loved him, (or any other spouse who chose to stay after their WS's affair) I can only imagine that automatic "safe feeling" is completely gone, replaced by a sudden "alertness," or "guarded" feeling as a response to that "great letdown" she felt.

 

This kind of betrayal, when the Cheating partner shattered that kind of Trust, can be mind-blowing. People kill because of this, some goes insane, some people kill themselves. It's the ultimate act of love a human can give, so betrayals like these can alter one's soul forever.

 

So, after all these self-reflection, I guess the point of my question is, since Liam and his Wife decided to stay together, how on earth can they rebuild that kind of Trust? how on earth can Liam (or any other WS) can assure their spouses that it will never happen again? Can anyone really do that? Can any betrayed spouse fully trust their WS ever again? Because for me, situations like these will rob something to a person permanently. There is no way that it can go back to the way it was before: Memories are tainted, beliefs altered, views in life completely changed, a person's whole world will shift permanently. so, just how?

 

BRAVO! RySant! Beautifully put across and well written perceptions!

 

Might I suggest that while there is a definite paradigm shift after schna monumental even, that love you speak of s still there. The NEW relationship that must rise out of those ashes is built on mutual honesty, respect and transparency. Trust is built over time and continued hard work alongside the aforementioned.

 

I think Liam might agree? DOING it rather than simply SAYING it.

 

Now the OP has been given the opportunity to work toward a better, healthier marriage, he has the chance to SHOW his wife how much he wants to be with her.

[Gigi2015]

In time, Liam. I just have to fix the bad examples of all the adults in my life. I am scared to love not just because I am afraid to be hurt. I am scared that I might become my parents one day. People keep saying here that infidelity is a betrayal only to the wife. In my experience, it's a betrayal to the whole family including the children. When a cheating spouse cheats and is in love with the other woman, they do forget about their own children. These children are robbed to see their "cheating parent" when they wake up in the morning, have breakfast with them, going to their parent's room to say good night, living with both parents. These things have been taken away from them, and I don't understand why adults cannot understand that these simple things are very much important to kids. When I was a child, my parents are their whole world. And I believe that every child sees their parents as such too.

 

I remember during the earlier days of the separation of my parents, I was riding in a bus going home. I didn't know that the daughter of my father's OW is on the same bus. When I was about to disembark, I saw her disembarking first, she ran towards my father. He hugged her, took her luggage, and he looked at me. He just gave me a nod, and off they went to his car, arms draped on her as they walked towards his car, laughing as she is clearly telling how her day went to my dad. This is not his own daughter by the way. It's his step-daughter.

 

I will never forget that pain for the rest of my life. I rationalize it actually. Told myself that hey, I am a guy. I can take a cab to go home. Maybe he did this because she's a girl. But no matter what I do, I know for a fact that my own father chose to play father to someone else's child instead of his own.

 

Some people here will always view me as someone who is very judgmental to "OW/OM," to cheating spouses etc etc. But like all of you, you will also never understand how painful it is to be betrayed. To be robbed of something fundamental that no personal success can put a patch on. But I guess, love is too great to think of anything else... isn't it?

 

 

Your post is heartfelt and needed. I think often people visit sites to make sense of things. Our choices usually don't simply affect us individually. The world is more than our "own needs". Some people get that and some don't. You brought tears to my eyes.

[Whoknew30]

Whoknew, I think you're just looking for a fight - you've clearly been the ow, and that position argues its own way. I've not been in your shoes, so I wouldn't presume anything or judge. My wh has never blamed the mow more than himself - he's embarrassed that he fell for the same lines he was tossing out. He was her boss and legally has more to lose. He takes full responsibility for making decision after harmful decision. He wasn't lured, he walked into a mess fully on his own. The difference is he's remorseful, she couldn't let go. She made decisions after the fact that showed how low she was willing to go - and disrespected her own husband and children. She tried to take my place while I was away. During the affair they were equally vile. Afterwards she was pathetic. My wh is working on himself - she's moved onto another marriage. I know she feels nothing about her role, my wh does. He lost the respect of his family. He's trying to make amends. He badmouths himself, her name rarely comes up. She's not a part of his therapy, she was a willing wet hole, frankly. His issues are with himself. I write here because it's cathartic to me.

 

If it makes you feel better to keep hanging on to the fact that the ow is this misunderstood creature, that's fine, but I'm living with my own experience and I will judge the one mow who chose to remain in my life after the the affair was over. Because that's when she got really ugly and that's my one experience with an angry mow. There's no paintbrush that works across all affairs except that there are hundreds of lies. I don't claim to know anything more than the pile of crap that I've had to manage. And if managing it means protecting my family by bashing her here, I think it's a win.

 

 

You got me wrong. My point is how does the BS (as in your case) keep any self respect to know that your spouse, messed around with such a "gross" person & stay with their WS.

 

IMO, if the BS had any self respect they wouldn't. That's what I mean. If I had truly seen that's what my H risked his family for, I couldn't have stayed. I could forgive but I couldn't stay. If I felt that strongly about my h OW, I would feel that strongly about him & im at 20 years like yourself

 

No, bashing her doesn't protect your family, you're lying to yourself. You have to bash her to make yourself feel better bc of low self esteem, that's the only reason someone has to cut another down. It's sad & what you explain exactly what I grew up with a bunch of women with your thought process. As being a child coming from multiple A, you haven't protected your family from anything. Your kids know & what, hear you call OW gross, yet dad is still in the house with you. I watched the EXACT same thing...I love my mom but I thought it was weak. Either you forgive & move on or you leave. Bashing the OW makes the BS look so sad... Bc they stayed with their WH let him slide & everytime you cut her down, you just make yourself look bitter...I'm telling watching it my whole life...it's really ugly & sad.

 

I'm just being honest, that's why I am the way I am. It's not to fight I just learned watching that kind of behavior, I'd never let man take my self confidence. You've allowed your husband to take that from you & everytime blame it on OW or speak negatively about her, you take that blame off him. I couldn't live like that..blaming others & not my spouse.

[Whoknew30]

In time, Liam. I just have to fix the bad examples of all the adults in my life. I am scared to love not just because I am afraid to be hurt. I am scared that I might become my parents one day. People keep saying here that infidelity is a betrayal only to the wife. In my experience, it's a betrayal to the whole family including the children. When a cheating spouse cheats and is in love with the other woman, they do forget about their own children. These children are robbed to see their "cheating parent" when they wake up in the morning, have breakfast with them, going to their parent's room to say good night, living with both parents. These things have been taken away from them, and I don't understand why adults cannot understand that these simple things are very much important to kids. When I was a child, my parents are their whole world. And I believe that every child sees their parents as such too.

 

I remember during the earlier days of the separation of my parents, I was riding in a bus going home. I didn't know that the daughter of my father's OW is on the same bus. When I was about to disembark, I saw her disembarking first, she ran towards my father. He hugged her, took her luggage, and he looked at me. He just gave me a nod, and off they went to his car, arms draped on her as they walked towards his car, laughing as she is clearly telling how her day went to my dad. This is not his own daughter by the way. It's his step-daughter.

 

I will never forget that pain for the rest of my life. I rationalize it actually. Told myself that hey, I am a guy. I can take a cab to go home. Maybe he did this because she's a girl. But no matter what I do, I know for a fact that my own father chose to play father to someone else's child instead of his own.

 

Some people here will always view me as someone who is very judgmental to "OW/OM," to cheating spouses etc etc. But like all of you, you will also never understand how painful it is to be betrayed. To be robbed of something fundamental that no personal success can put a patch on. But I guess, love is too great to think of anything else... isn't it?

 

 

That part of him playing father to someone else, was separate than your dad having an A. I'm a product of multiple A & my dad didn't do that. He was a great dad, we separated the problems my parents had as a couple vs my dad as a father. A are wrong but the OW didn't make your father a bad father, he just was & im sorry for that. My dad chased women but he never let that effect my siblings & I, we were & are extremely close to him.

 

Growing up, I saw many mothers leave their kids. My best friend's mom left when she was 5 (we've been best friends since preschool) for AP, I was with her the day it happened. 30 something years the mom is still married to AP & she never raised her kids. My best friend told me it was OM fault, her mom is just a piece of **** & she's right. My mom ended becoming her mom...& my mom was going through my dad cheating & they both treated my best friend as a child well.

 

Your experience is your experience & it can hurt but it's only one person's fault in any situation like that...the parent's no one can make them be a ****ty parent that was just them. Your dad took it away from you, no one made him.

[RySant]

That part of him playing father to someone else, was separate than your dad having an A. I'm a product of multiple A & my dad didn't do that. He was a great dad, we separated the problems my parents had as a couple vs my dad as a father. A are wrong but the OW didn't make your father a bad father, he just was & im sorry for that. My dad chased women but he never let that effect my siblings & I, we were & are extremely close to him.

 

Growing up, I saw many mothers leave their kids. My best friend's mom left when she was 5 (we've been best friends since preschool) for AP, I was with her the day it happened. 30 something years the mom is still married to AP & she never raised her kids. My best friend told me it was OM fault, her mom is just a piece of **** & she's right. My mom ended becoming her mom...& my mom was going through my dad cheating & they both treated my best friend as a child well.

 

Your experience is your experience & it can hurt but it's only one person's fault in any situation like that...the parent's no one can make them be a ****ty parent that was just them. Your dad took it away from you, no one made him.

 

I hear you. I totally get you. Thanks for clarifying this to me. I just can't help but think that how come he can a bad father to me when he can be a good one to another? Sigh, I'll never know the answer cause he died of cancer 10 years ago.

[Whoknew30]

I hear you. I totally get you. Thanks for clarifying this to me. I just can't help but think that how come he can a bad father to me when he can be a good one to another? Sigh, I'll never know the answer cause he died of cancer 10 years ago.

 

I really feel for you bc my H mom also left him as a child & he can't stand her but as his wife I've had to deal with the hole it's left inside of him..she left & moved across the country with her AP & she's still married to him too.

 

I've come up with my own opinion watching this. I personally think, some parents choose a separate life when leaving for AP bc they are people that want to live in denial of their mistakes. They can't face their kids & own that they have problems. It's completely selfish. My beat friends mom still pretends she didn't leave, I was there for all her kids moments more than she was & then she talks like she was there for everything, my BF & I look at each other while she's talking...like really? Husbands mom does the same kind of crap.

 

 

Now on a positive note. Both my H & BF are wonderful parents. Even through all my H & I problems, we always put our kids first. When I see the parents they became after the back grounds they came from...it's just such a beautiful thing.

 

I hope you don't allow fear or hurt ever stop you from being able to create your own family.

[Whoknew30]

Whoknew, I think you're just looking for a fight - you've clearly been the ow, and that position argues its own way. I've not been in your shoes, so I wouldn't presume anything or judge. My wh has never blamed the mow more than himself - he's embarrassed that he fell for the same lines he was tossing out. He was her boss and legally has more to lose. He takes full responsibility for making decision after harmful decision. He wasn't lured, he walked into a mess fully on his own. The difference is he's remorseful, she couldn't let go. She made decisions after the fact that showed how low she was willing to go - and disrespected her own husband and children. She tried to take my place while I was away. During the affair they were equally vile. Afterwards she was pathetic. My wh is working on himself - she's moved onto another marriage. I know she feels nothing about her role, my wh does. He lost the respect of his family. He's trying to make amends. He badmouths himself, her name rarely comes up. She's not a part of his therapy, she was a willing wet hole, frankly. His issues are with himself. I write here because it's cathartic to me.

 

If it makes you feel better to keep hanging on to the fact that the ow is this misunderstood creature, that's fine, but I'm living with my own experience and I will judge the one mow who chose to remain in my life after the the affair was over. Because that's when she got really ugly and that's my one experience with an angry mow. There's no paintbrush that works across all affairs except that there are hundreds of lies. I don't claim to know anything more than the pile of crap that I've had to manage. And if managing it means protecting my family by bashing her here, I think it's a win.

 

 

 

I'll also add, my H & I don't know anything about OW after the fact bc we both made a conscious choice that either of our AP were the problem, so why give them another thought. I ran into my AP not to long ago & after 7 years of not seeing him, I had no anger or disgust towards him bc I had already took responsibility for being the one that choose to bring him into my life. All my fault...now I've seen OW several times over the years & last time she literally ran away from me & I just felt bad for her...she looked like such a sad soul. Why hate her? Hate just affects the person who hates, not the person you're hating.

 

To ever be 100% healed & ok in any situation, one has to let go of hate. Only eats you up & affects the rest of your family.

[Midwestmissy]

For what it's worth, the ow is not a topic of conversation around my kids! They discovered her emails, it was awful. My wh had to tell them the truth, they were heartbroken. That was the last time she was mentioned.

 

People who feel deeply feel all their emotions deeply. She knew who I was, my family etc and didn't care or feel. She would send gushy notes telling my mil how much she loved and respected her while risking the entire business (my mil was an owner). It was borderline cuckoo, and she upset a lot if people. I was terribly hurt by her actions after the affair. She showed up to family functions. It was so gross. My wh has done a ton of work on himself, he doesn't blame her for the affair. My kids begged me to give him a second chance and I promised them I would. As of today I haven't regretted it. People tell us things about her because they're unaware of why she no longer works for my wh and it's a small industry. His response is always to let them know he's not interested in her life. We aren't living our lives seething at her, we are trying to heal. And venting here actually does help me, regardless of what you think. My husband is trying to repair what he did. She continued to try to hurt. I would never tell you that you're obviously repressing your hatred for the ow or ap or whomever - it's presumptuous, I don't know you. So when you say I'm spewing hate on a daily basis, it makes no sense.

[Whoknew30]

For what it's worth, the ow is not a topic of conversation around my kids! They discovered her emails, it was awful. My wh had to tell them the truth, they were heartbroken. That was the last time she was mentioned.

 

People who feel deeply feel all their emotions deeply. She knew who I was, my family etc and didn't care or feel. She would send gushy notes telling my mil how much she loved and respected her while risking the entire business (my mil was an owner). It was borderline cuckoo, and she upset a lot if people. I was terribly hurt by her actions after the affair. She showed up to family functions. It was so gross. My wh has done a ton of work on himself, he doesn't blame her for the affair. My kids begged me to give him a second chance and I promised them I would. As of today I haven't regretted it. People tell us things about her because they're unaware of why she no longer works for my wh and it's a small industry. His response is always to let them know he's not interested in her life. We aren't living our lives seething at her, we are trying to heal. And venting here actually does help me, regardless of what you think. My husband is trying to repair what he did. She continued to try to hurt. I would never tell you that you're obviously repressing your hatred for the ow or ap or whomever - it's presumptuous, I don't know you. So when you say I'm spewing hate on a daily basis, it makes no sense.

 

 

 

When did I say you spread hate everyday? Never not once. You put what you think on a public forum, not me. All I'm saying, being a BS & WS & child of A. That she wasn't the problem in your marriage, it was your H...& you added part of your hate for OW is a way to protect your family & IMO that isn't true, hate never protected anything.

 

No one is obligated to care about your family except for the people in that family & at the time your H showed OW he didn't care, so why should she? & how was she risking your MIL business, once again wouldn't that have been your H?

 

I understand reconciling & trying to keep your family together & I will always respect that from anyone & it's fine to feel however one does. I just don't agree with mentally giving someone power that they never really had. OW didn't have power to do all that, your H did & handed some to her. If I'm working at my parent's business & put another in a position to screw it up, my parents aren't going to be upset with the other person, they're going to be pissed at me for allowing it.

[sandylee1]

Whoknew, I think you're just looking for a fight - you've clearly been the ow, and that position argues its own way. I've not been in your shoes, so I wouldn't presume anything or judge. My wh has never blamed the mow more than himself - he's embarrassed that he fell for the same lines he was tossing out. He was her boss and legally has more to lose. He takes full responsibility for making decision after harmful decision. He wasn't lured, he walked into a mess fully on his own. The difference is he's remorseful, she couldn't let go. She made decisions after the fact that showed how low she was willing to go - and disrespected her own husband and children. She tried to take my place while I was away. During the affair they were equally vile. Afterwards she was pathetic. My wh is working on himself - she's moved onto another marriage. I know she feels nothing about her role, my wh does. He lost the respect of his family. He's trying to make amends. He badmouths himself, her name rarely comes up. She's not a part of his therapy, she was a willing wet hole, frankly. His issues are with himself. I write here because it's cathartic to me.

 

If it makes you feel better to keep hanging on to the fact that the ow is this misunderstood creature, that's fine, but I'm living with my own experience and I will judge the one mow who chose to remain in my life after the the affair was over. Because that's when she got really ugly and that's my one experience with an angry mow. There's no paintbrush that works across all affairs except that there are hundreds of lies. I don't claim to know anything more than the pile of crap that I've had to manage. And if managing it means protecting my family by bashing her here, I think it's a win.

 

Superb post here.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with seeing the OW as a bad person. Anyone who sleeps with a MM cannot expect to be spoken of in high esteem. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

 

It would be different if she were remorseful for her part in all this..but she isn't and continues to use foul language against the OPs wife. No wonder so many BWs say the OW wanted her life. ..this is a prime example of them thinking they were a rare gem.

 

At least the OP is working on himself..this OW is not accepting her poor choice and immoral actions. She needs a clip around the head from her mother...as one might say in the UK.

[66Charger]

.QUOTE=Whoknew30;6768617]

 

No one is obligated to care about your family except for the people in that family & at the time your H showed OW he didn't care, so why should she? & how was she risking your MIL business, once again wouldn't that have been your H?

 

I understand reconciling & trying to keep your family together & I will always respect that from anyone & it's fine to feel however one does. I just don't agree with mentally giving someone power that they never really had. OW didn't have power to do all that, your H did & handed some to her. If I'm working at my parent's business & put another in a position to screw it up, my parents aren't going to be upset with the other person, they're going to be pissed at me for allowing it.

 

 

 

Whoknew, then why were you so upset about your AP approaching you and your child. By your logic then, it was you who put him in this position, since it was you who invited him in your life. By your logic, you should not have been upset with the AP, but yourself. However you castigated his behaviour and put that action solely on him. You cant have it both ways.

 

The only difference may be, when it happens to you, it is not so black and white.

 

Dont mean to war with you, but hey, you were outraged at your fAPs actions. Why cant midwest have the same privilege?

 

Btw, the oneyouhate. You should take some time reading the edge of despairs thread. That was almost you.

Edited February 6, 2016 by 66Charger

[Southern Sun]

The BEST thing a formerly wayward husband can do during reconciliation is to take off his rose-colored glasses and really LOOK at his former adultery partner to see what kind of person she is. What he's going to find every time.. is the kind of woman who would screw someone else's husband.

 

Men and women just aren't the same. Even their brain-wiring is different according to most of what I've read on the subject. Men have twenty times the testosterone level as women. This affects not only their bodies, but their minds as well. It makes them less anxious and more impulsive. And while they're emotionally just as deep and complex as women, their brains (having less connection between right and left hemispheres), take longer to sort emotional information.

 

Our society strives to be egalitarian in as many ways as possible, but in physiological terms, men and women are still very different critters. I personally find it easier to understand how a man, with 20 times the testosterone and with less ability to quickly sort complex emotional information, can get his mind messed up. I do find myself much more challenged to be sympathetic to women, who have the same tools in their kits as I have in mine, but choose to screw another woman's husband anyway.

 

And I don't buy into the argument that "others" aren't the ones who took the vows, so we shouldn't be mad at them. I never had to "vow" not to be an *******. I just choose not to be an *******. Pretty simple, really. Everybody knows you don't **** somebody else's spouse. It's poor form.

 

Interesting. Maybe this should help prevent a woman from getting involved on the front-end, but it is this very thing, the brain wiring, the physiology of a woman, that then makes it difficult for her to let go of the AP on the back-end.

 

Combine that with a man who has 20 times the level of testosterone and less connection b/w the two hemispheres in his brain, and you have one helping create the affair initially and the other hanging onto the affair as time goes on. Of course, there's always exceptions to the rule, blah blah.

 

I guess it takes two.

[Whoknew30]

.QUOTE=Whoknew30;6768617]

 

No one is obligated to care about your family except for the people in that family & at the time your H showed OW he didn't care, so why should she? & how was she risking your MIL business, once again wouldn't that have been your H?

 

I understand reconciling & trying to keep your family together & I will always respect that from anyone & it's fine to feel however one does. I just don't agree with mentally giving someone power that they never really had. OW didn't have power to do all that, your H did & handed some to her. If I'm working at my parent's business & put another in a position to screw it up, my parents aren't going to be upset with the other person, they're going to be pissed at me for allowing it.

 

 

 

Whoknew, then why were you so upset about your AP approaching you and your child. By your logic then, it was you who put him in this position, since it was you who invited him in your life. By your logic, you should not have been upset with the AP, but yourself. However you castigated his behaviour and put that action solely on him. You cant have it both ways.

 

The only difference may be, when it happens to you, it is not so black and white.

 

Dont mean to war with you, but hey, you were outraged at your fAPs actions. Why cant midwest have the same privilege?

 

 

I was upset with him bc we had not been in any type of contact in 7 years. I told him a long time ago I did not want him in my life anymore, there had been no false hope. It was black & white, told you bye I meant bye & when did I ever not take responsibility for putting him in my life, never. It is my fault he exists as my OM & I took care of it.

[Whoknew30]

Superb post here.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with seeing the OW as a bad person. Anyone who sleeps with a MM cannot expect to be spoken of in high esteem. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

 

It would be different if she were remorseful for her part in all this..but she isn't and continues to use foul language against the OPs wife. No wonder so many BWs say the OW wanted her life. ..this is a prime example of them thinking they were a rare gem.

 

At least the OP is working on himself..this OW is not accepting her poor choice and immoral actions. She needs a clip around the head from her mother...as one might say in the UK.

 

 

My point, who cares what OW is doing? Who cares about her morals, she's gone. I'm not say be friends & have coffee but why care who & what she is? What does it matter?...if she's gone.

[Whoknew30]

Superb post here.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with seeing the OW as a bad person. Anyone who sleeps with a MM cannot expect to be spoken of in high esteem. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

 

It would be different if she were remorseful for her part in all this..but she isn't and continues to use foul language against the OPs wife. No wonder so many BWs say the OW wanted her life. ..this is a prime example of them thinking they were a rare gem.

 

At least the OP is working on himself..this OW is not accepting her poor choice and immoral actions. She needs a clip around the head from her mother...as one might say in the UK.

 

 

Also, maybe bc I'm just not getting it...what would be the difference if OW did feel bad? What does that matter to one's marriage? I never said like the OW, I'm just saying at the end of the day, why does she still matter in anyway if you choose to reconcile.

 

Nothing is going to make an A affair better or worse & if WS even end up leaving BS for AP, is that really a spouse you'd still want to be married to?

[Ladyjane14]

Interesting. Maybe this should help prevent a woman from getting involved on the front-end, but it is this very thing, the brain wiring, the physiology of a woman, that then makes it difficult for her to let go of the AP on the back-end.

 

Combine that with a man who has 20 times the level of testosterone and less connection b/w the two hemispheres in his brain, and you have one helping create the affair initially and the other hanging onto the affair as time goes on. Of course, there's always exceptions to the rule, blah blah.

 

I guess it takes two.

 

It would certainly explain why the OP, as well as one other male poster earlier in the thread are dealing with bunny-boilers post affair, I suppose.

 

There also seems to be a competitive element... which perhaps too may have a physiological basis, I don't know. I haven't seen any research on that as yet.

[sandylee1]

My point, who cares what OW is doing? Who cares about her morals, she's gone. I'm not say be friends & have coffee but why care who & what she is? What does it matter?...if she's gone.

 

It matters because she keeps pursuing the OP and won't back off.

 

I don't think 'cares' is exactly the feeling either. I think one way or the other....you'd have an opinion of the person who joined you in hurting someone else.

 

I just get a lot of defending in your posts.....but as an ex OW that's not suprising.

 

The fact is that a person who assists you in doing wrong....such as breaking your vows .....isn't or wasn't a good person at the time. In this case........The OWs potty mouth towards the OPs wife and her breaking NC ....show that she continues to have no respect and shows she's not such a great person to put it mildly......The OP seeing and recognising this......is good realisation on his part. This is the kind of discovery he'd come to with person centered therapy.

 

It takes two to tango.....Both did wrong..but one continues to do wrong.....she's not just sad..but she's pathetic too.

 

Theone - you're doing well .... you've done a lot of self analysis and you've learnt from this. The OW may well have hung on to any negative things you said about your wife (which are often your justification at the time) hence her trash talk. If you said nothing...then you can see her comments come from a place of jealousy as you ended the A.

 

Never stop being grateful and showing your wife that her giving you a second chance was worth it. As much as this is difficult for you...just imagine being the BS.