[Betrayed spouse/partner]the [affair partner] is not your real problem

[Midwestmissy]

He did know the truth deep down, I agree. He thought he could contain all the lies and that they would just vanish in time. Neither he nor the mow had ever suffered consequences from bad decisions. Wh was deep into bad decisions for the first time in our marriage and the consequences terrified him, easier to make me the bad guy. And his mother and the mow jumped right on board.

 

Somewhere inside he knew full well that both women were praising him to make themselves look good and get something out of it. He knew that I was holding the family together in spite of him telling me I was psychologically damaged and delusional (um, then why leave me alone with 3 kids and never check in if you were actually worried about my crazy mental state? Yeah, thought so).

 

I've written here before, he said it was like eating every meal at the 7-11 or gas station. Seems harmless and satisfying until you realize you need nutrition and something that doesn't need to be packaged in an alluring wrapper (but still disappoints). When every little thing you do is met with applause - and this was how he was raised by his mother - it starts to ring very insincere. And then you just crave authenticity, even if that's homework, runny noses, and laundry.

[SolG]

In my humble opinion it's trying to pinpoint where the root problem is. Some people get lost...blaming the symptom rather than the problem. Point in case: my brother was unhappy at work and was passed up for a promotion. He didn't share this with my SIL....instead he started talking about it to a woman at work.(she empathized as she understood their industry). Why didn't he trust my SIL? He simply felt ashamed and felt he was letting her down (she didn't care one way or the other...and loved him for him not his successes)...still--the intimacy became stronger between the two co-workers....leading to an affair. There was nothing wrong with his marriage...it was all his insecurity and fear....the problem is he FAILED to recognize that outsourcing intimacy is a problem....and he's self-esteem issues where his own.

 

A lot of people fear intimacy and mistake it for closeness. Intimacy is scary. Being truly known--to your deepest darkest recesses--means tolerating the risk of rejection. And that fear can paradoxically be the greatest with someone you care about the most. If I tell my spouse what I'm really thinking, how I really feel, what I truly want... Will they still, love, respect, want me?

 

And to take it another level... the fear of intimacy and vulnerability is in part very much rooted in reliance on reflecfed sense of self. That I am as other people see me and reflect back to me... my sense of worth and esteem is totally a reactive construct. It is therefore vital to avoid being intimate because it risks affecting how others view me, and therefore in turn how I view myself.

 

Many times a crisis is a catalyst for a WS to seek an A because of their inability to tolerate their anxiety and fear around being intimate and sharing their vulnerability with their spouse. The intimacy is 'outsourced' as you put it, because there is less anxiety around disclosing to an AP. The AP on their best behaviour may be less likely to reject, and also without all the history and investment an AP's rejection probably doesn't really mean as much. In Rs as it is in business, outsourcing has a lot to do with the transfer and minimization of risk.

[road]

Things are always made to complicated:

 

 

Fault does not matter. What does is that the work to repair the damage be done.

 

 

Not fair that the BS hates the AP?

 

 

So go cry me a river. The BS was not having an affair. The BS was not looking for the marriage to end. Yes the WS was just as bad as the AP.

 

 

Though the marriage can not be saved if the BS stays mad at the WS.

 

 

Though the marriage can be saved while the BS hates the AP.

 

 

Hence the AP stays on the BS's manure list for an eternity.

[Gigi2015]

A lot of people fear intimacy and mistake it for closeness. Intimacy is scary. Being truly known--to your deepest darkest recesses--means tolerating the risk of rejection. And that fear can paradoxically be the greatest with someone you care about the most. If I tell my spouse what I'm really thinking, how I really feel, what I truly want... Will they still, love, respect, want me?

 

And to take it another level... the fear of intimacy and vulnerability is in part very much rooted in reliance on reflecfed sense of self. That I am as other people see me and reflect back to me... my sense of worth and esteem is totally a reactive construct. It is therefore vital to avoid being intimate because it risks affecting how others view me, and therefore in turn how I view myself.

 

Many times a crisis is a catalyst for a WS to seek an A because of their inability to tolerate their anxiety and fear around being intimate and sharing their vulnerability with their spouse. The intimacy is 'outsourced' as you put it, because there is less anxiety around disclosing to an AP. The AP on their best behaviour may be less likely to reject, and also without all the history and investment an AP's rejection probably doesn't really mean as much. In Rs as it is in business, outsourcing has a lot to do with the transfer and minimization of risk.

 

People that have intimacy issues don't resolve their issues based on who's with them....that's the problem....nobody can come to their rescue. The problem is within them not others.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Gigi2015

[SolG]

People that have intimacy issues don't resolve their issues based on who's with them....that's the problem....nobody can come to their rescue. The problem is within them not others.

 

And yet it's endemic. So many are invested in hiding the deeper parts of themselves. Resentments go unspoken, desires and disappointments unexpressed, real meaningful history unshared and unexplored. Ostensibly at times to protect a partner from hurt; but in reality because we fear what that hurt will mean to us when it's reflected back. Yet they tend to leak out anyway in loss of libido and other negative manifestations, including for some As.

 

Getting back to the main premise of this thread... IMO the BS's focus on the AP is related in a couple of ways. Firstly when not well differentiated a BS will be inclined to see the WS's actions as a direct reflection of themselves; and by extension the AP forms apart of that. We've all seen it right here on LS... the BS that seems intent on measuring their worth against the fact of an A and the nature of the AP. It's futile because in general the A and the AP have nothing to do with the BS's worth at all. A good man/woman in whatever dimension you choose to measure such things is still a good man/women regardless of the actions of their WS and his/her AP.

 

And closely interrelated is if a BS is reliant on their WS for sense of self it serves this self-interest to reassume a somewhat positive view of how they are seen by ths WS, so they can in turn return to seeing themselves positively. No such impetus exists to reframe the AP, indeed it can in this respect feel good to demonize them.

 

I don't think it really matters so much how a BS perceives the AP--they can hate them forever if they choose--but more that they can share this with the WS in a meaningful way from their perspective. What they feel, what it means to and about them, and in turn to the R. That's the path to differentiation and intimacy.

[waterwoman]

Just wanted to say that 'outsourcing intimacy' is a brilliant phrase. Cuts to the core of the issue. H did that because he felt over the years he had let me down so many times (his words not mine). He built a capable facade so that I wouldn't get to see any doubts and worries he had. So much easier to share intimacies and be open to someone who only knows you as you are now, not what a f*** up you might have been in the past.

 

Outsourcing intimacy. Perfect!

[dichotomy]

WS and AP's come in all flavors.

 

While technically correct that WS is ultimately to blame....sometimes the AP are predators, manipulators, and users who are excellent and exploiting weaknesses and are have no feelings about the marriages or families they could destroy. And some AP are not really bad people who may have been lied to by WS until they are sucked in. All flavors.

 

So yes you can have a lot of anger or blame for AP and WS both, and it can mix and varied in your anger.

 

I will mention that at times anger towards AP maybe some sort of envy or jealousy by BS. Some times the AP appears to get the best of the WS or some best parts of WS that BS has not seen in a while - or never. Could be time, passion, sex, affection, gifts, words, or other behaviors.....but we get very emotional that the AP got a different person then we do. Like dating vs being married in the affair WS can end up being "better" or more "fun" to AP and we are very angry at that AP for getting free and easy version of our spouse. I know I hold this kind of jealousy/anger hybrid at my wife's ex OM - and at my wife - I want the fun passionate free version of my wife too, but instead I get the married version. I hate (envy) that OM - how he got all the fun, and none of the work and obligations

 

 

But on another point I think OP is making (not sure) - there are some remaining related issues in my marriage - lack of deep intimacy and low sex (quality and quantity). My feelings on this are not hidden and have been communicated many MANY times. In addition we have gone though a year of marriage therapy where at the end of that year the therapist was very pointy agreeing with me and pushing wife to fix these things. So there is nothing hidden, no lack of communications, no guessing at unmet needs. I have never cheated, but the thoughts sometimes circle in my head to seek this loss elsewhere. But it would still be my fault to cheat - even though I can point to clear communications, understandings and reasons why. If I did ever cheat - who would my wife blame or be angry at ? AP, Me, or herself ? Maybe even her own ex OM and affiars? ...Flavors....

Edited February 7, 2016 by dichotomy

[katielee]

My husband hates my AP. I totally get it and don't think it's an active, everyday thing.

I don't hate my husband's APs, I just don't want to see them.

These folks are the WS's accomplices in emotionally raping another person. I can see why some BS hate them.

I don't see many people in recovery focusing on the AP, but initially, some focus might be there. It's usually short lived.

I'm one who thinks the AP DO owe the BS. They broke the human being code, the man/woman code, the parent code - the humanity that it takes to live so that we're not all running around in mass chaos.

So what if our WS made the vows to us. Simply by being born the AP also owes us. Humanity needs to have each other's backs.

And I say this as a fWW. I screwed up - not only in my marriage but in my humanness.

[SolG]

I will mention that at times anger towards AP maybe some sort of envy or these ousy by BS. Some times the AP appears to get the best of the WS or some best parts of WS that BS has not seen in a while - or never. Could be time, passion, sex, affection, gifts, words, or other behaviors.....but we get very emotional that the AP got a different person then we do. Like dating vs being married in the affair WS can end up being "better" or more "fun" to AP and we are very angry at that AP for getting free and easy version of our spouse. I know I hold this kind of jealousy/anger hybrid at my wife's ex OM - and at my wife - I want the fun passionate free version of my wife too, but instead I get the married version. I hate (envy) that OM - how he got all the fun, and none of the work and obligations.

 

And interestingly you will often see the flip side of this anger in the AP. The BS becomes symbolic of what the WS witholds from them as well; the legitimacy, the comittment, etc. Some WSs feed this by feeding the AP lies or the most cursory of details to advance their case both for the A, and ironically also for not being able to leave the M. In this respect it is not unlike throwing the AP under the bus after DDay.... in the A they throw their BS under the bus. In both cases it's a deflection away from the WS having to confront the discomfort of why they had/are having an A and what that says about themselves, by focusing on someone else in lieu of their own internal processes.

 

You will somtetimes see an AP state, almost pridefully, that their MM/W never discusses their H/W/M. Yet somehow not see this for the mass withholding of intimacy that it is. In no other context but an A would the refusal/failure to discuss an enormous and important part of your life be seen as 'positive'. An A is often carefully crafted to give the illusion of intimacy, but in reality provides the WS a haven from their anxiety about being truly intimate with anyone. Noone gets the best of a WS in an A.

[cocorico]

And interestingly you will often see the flip side of this anger in the AP. The BS becomes symbolic of what the WS witholds from them as well; the legitimacy, the comittment, etc. Some WSs feed this by feeding the AP lies or the most cursory of details to advance their case both for the A, and ironically also for not being able to leave the M. In this respect it is not unlike throwing the AP under the bus after DDay.... in the A they throw their BS under the bus. In both cases it's a deflection away from the WS having to confront the discomfort of why they had/are having an A and what that says about themselves, by focusing on someone else in lieu of their own internal processes.

 

You will somtetimes see an AP state, almost pridefully, that their MM/W never discusses their H/W/M. Yet somehow not see this for the mass withholding of intimacy that it is. In no other context but an A would the refusal/failure to discuss an enormous and important part of your life be seen as 'positive'. An A is often carefully crafted to give the illusion of intimacy, but in reality provides the WS a haven from their anxiety about being truly intimate with anyone. Noone gets the best of a WS in an A.

 

this (bolded) assumes the BS to be an "enormous and important" part of the WS's life. This is not always the case. Sometimes the true intimacy is with the AP, and the BS gets the notes left with instructions about chores. There are many different scenarios, many different As, many different people.

 

I don't know and don't care if my H's xW blamed me, or him, for the A. The "real problem" had been pointed out to her countless times - in MC before she stormed out and refused to return, by family, friends, colleagues, everyone who saw them together. She didn't see it as a problem, thought things were great as they were. So when he left she was gobsmacked.

[Whoknew30]

Yes we do owe in human decency but how do you get decent out of a indecent situation? My H also hates my ExOM but that's my fault for bringing him into my marriage. My marriage wasn't good at the time & I was honest about that, so in my case I can see why AP didn't care anything about my H, me being open painted a ugly picture of my marriage, which is completely my fault.

 

IMO, when the WS forgives the WS but holds on to hate for the BS, it's kind of still living a type of denial. In most cases, of course WS is scared, divorces aren't easy, I never wanted my H scared to lose his family (bc his kids will always be his kids) or his money...I wanted to know he didn't want to lose me as a person in his life, that we were fixing this as a couple bc we screwed up & loved each other, not out of fear. I love my kids but I don't want me or my H to stay bc of them, or our problems wouldn't have improved. One day our kids are going to move on with their lives & not be in the house anymore & it will be just us...I think about that often. I want "us" to be together bc we really chose each other, not out of fear.

 

That's why I wiped the BS out of my mind & didn't care about her (she called him a few times after & blew up on him) if I had to worry or think anything about her, I couldn't have reconciled. I had to see him let her go a 100% on his own with absolutely no influence from me & I couldn't hear anything negative bc IMO it would have been a lie. If a person has sex with someone more than once & then bc caught they all of a sudden hate them, I find that as redirecting the blame from themselves on to AP & I took that as insulting my intelligence. As a WS my AP didn't make me do anything I wasn't willing to do, it was all me & anything he knew about my marriage came from me...all my fault & all my H fault.

[wmacbride]

Ive noticed so much of the anger from betrayal is projected unto the AP/OW. This may only be a knee jerk reaction but it can also be a maladaptive way of dealing with things. The way I look at it: The WS has the gate control..it was his/her job to NOT outsource emotional intimacy(which later leads to a PA). To first look to his partner for support, to voice needs.....I find it interesting that many WS seem to think if their spouse truly loved them they could guess their needs..if they were truly connected, etc. .When in fact part of the EA connection had to do with them disclosing feelings. Why do you think this happens? Is it a deficiency in the marriage or in the WS?

 

As a betrayed spouse who put up with a whole lot of crap from my ws ow, I will answer this.

 

You can be damned sure I'm angry at her. I am angry at her for pretending to be my friend then taking back anything i said to her, no matter how benign, and twisting it to make it look like I didn't care. She was my ws "friend' at the time- platonic. That sure changed...

 

example- if I told her I was tired after caring for our kids when they were all ill, and was looking forward to going to bed for a good night's sleep, she'd spin it so that it looked as if I was going to bed to ignore him, was to lazy to stay up, etc.. Of course, he was dumb enough to believe her, and that is all on him.

 

I'm also angry at her for , after the A ended, trying to harass me and my children. For trying to make me feel guilty for my ws choosing to end the A. She'd tell me she was going to kill herself and it would all be my fault. I, being stupid, believed her, and did feel bad. I finally realized she was full of it and called her bluff.

 

I'm furious with her for contact my spouse, who was deployed in a combat zone, through their shared email network, and trying to tell him anonymously that I was cheating on him.

 

I'm furious for the mental energy I had to waste on dealing with her continued phone calls, emails , messages to me. In spite of what I may sound like on here, I am a quiet, mild mannered person. I wanted her to just go away and not have to have waste any mental energy on her. Didn;t turn out that way though.

 

In my opinion, and it's the one that counts, I have every right to be angry with her and blame her for her actions. I'm at a point now where it's both amusing and sad to think that someone could get to a point in their life where they feel the need to raise themselves up by being involved in hurting other people ( she is a serial ow). I expect she had a rough childhood, which is not something I would wish on anyone, but that's her baby to rock, not mine.

 

I fully realize that some want to minimize the actions of the ow or om, but if the ws is no victim, and I fully believe they are not, then, unless the ow or om was told their AP wasn't married, they are no more a victim.

 

In her case, if she wants to self medicate for her problems, then she should find some other way of doing so than by sleeping with married guys and then trying to rub their bs's noses in it.

 

enough said

[wmacbride]

The real problem is you WS. The reality is the AP can walk away without giving the WS another look, people love to talk about the AP needs to deal with consequences but so does the WS & part of those consequences can be AP wipes their hands clean & says by bc they can. The WS can choose to be mad at AP all they want but why would the AP care about they if they already didn't care they were banging a married person? So what's the point of making the AP a priority? The BS wasn't & will never be a priority to the AP, so why give them that back. The hard cold reality, is no AP doesn't care about the BS & the WS is the one that allowed it. You can't get water from an empty well, so why try?

 

 

I agree that the ws hold complete responsibility for his or her actions.

this being said, so does the AP.

 

I know many disagree, but I really do believe that people should not knowing engage in behavior they know is hurtful to other people. An ow or om knows the behavior will be a part of hurting the bs. It's pretty hard to swallow the notion that they couldn't know that.

[Whoknew30]

I agree that the ws hold complete responsibility for his or her actions.

this being said, so does the AP.

 

I know many disagree, but I really do believe that people should not knowing engage in behavior they know is hurtful to other people. An ow or om knows the behavior will be a part of hurting the bs. It's pretty hard to swallow the notion that they couldn't know that.

 

I'm not saying that the AP is in the right at all. I'm saying they don't care to begin if they already knew a BS existed so what does a WS expect from them? & if the AP continues to see the WS after Dday IMO that's still the WS fault.

 

What does the BS really expect from the AP? It's up to the WS to try & fix their marriage. That's part of an affair, the AP cared about the WS not the BS. If you read (in most cases) all the lies a WS tells the AP, & they're sleeping with AP, it's easy to think the BS is the bad guy & they have a bad marriage bc WS made then believe that, no different than WS made BS they were being faithful.

 

Now I didn't lie to OM, but my H did lie to his OW about somethings, so I understand how & why she thought the way she did. I understood it was him...all him. We had to start from the beginning to rebuild trust & that meant to me, was for both of us to understand that in any situation (including someone getting naked & saying come on) we control our behavior & no matter what happens any move we make in our marriage is 100% on us.

[wmacbride]

 

Now I didn't lie to OM, but my H did lie to his OW about somethings, so I understand how & why she thought the way she did. .

 

Sorry, I don't buy that excuse at all.

 

That's like saying it's okay for someone to walk up and slap a complete stranger simply because the person they are with said they are not being nice to them.

 

It boils down to someone finding an excuse to do what they want.

 

i know I sound like a hardass, but I really believe that people shouldn't knowingly hurt others. A mm cries on a woman's shoulder that his wifey isn't being nice to him? She always has the option of telling him to stop whigning and either go back and talk to her or leave his marriage. She chose not to take that option because she didn't want to do so.

[Whoknew30]

Sorry, I don't buy that excuse at all.

 

That's like saying it's okay for someone to walk up and slap a complete stranger simply because the person they are with said they are not being nice to them.

 

It boils down to someone finding an excuse to do what they want.

 

i know I sound like a hardass, but I really believe that people shouldn't knowingly hurt others. A mm cries on a woman's shoulder that his wifey isn't being nice to him? She always has the option of telling him to stop whigning and either go back and talk to her or leave his marriage. She chose not to take that option because she didn't want to do so.

 

Who said an excuse?

 

All I'm saying is your asking for someone to care about hurting you that doesn't. She cared for your H, what she did is wrong but that's part of an A. The AP gets to go away many times with no consequences bc...life isn't fair. That's why A get messy, the AP doesn't owe you anything. You can be mad all day but what does that do? How does that make you feel better. You already know she doesn't care, so what exactly is a BS in your situation want? It happened, you can would have, could have, shouldn't have all day but it happened, the AP doesn't care & the reality is, gets to walk away bc she's not the one married to you.

 

I'm not defending anything but a situation is what it is & all the hate in the world can't change something once it happens. So once something bad happens it's all about what's the best way you can handle it & being angry after awhile doesn't affect anyone or anything but yourself, no one else. Anger always trickles into other parts in one's life & it's never good. That's all I'm saying.

[dreamingoftigers]

Who said an excuse?

 

All I'm saying is your asking for someone to care about hurting you that doesn't. She cared for your H, what she did is wrong but that's part of an A. The AP gets to go away many times with no consequences bc...life isn't fair. That's why A get messy, the AP doesn't owe you anything. You can be mad all day but what does that do? How does that make you feel better. You already know she doesn't care, so what exactly is a BS in your situation want? It happened, you can would have, could have, shouldn't have all day but it happened, the AP doesn't care & the reality is, gets to walk away bc she's not the one married to you.

 

I'm not defending anything but a situation is what it is & all the hate in the world can't change something once it happens. So once something bad happens it's all about what's the best way you can handle it & being angry after awhile doesn't affect anyone or anything but yourself, no one else. Anger always trickles into other parts in one's life & it's never good. That's all I'm saying.

 

Having a feeling about a person and/or their actions doesn't signal a significant investment.

 

It's weird thinking. Only be upset if it can target the person?

 

I don't like Donald Trump. I don't see the rest of my life falling apart because of it. I can't even vote or not vote for him, I'm Canadian.

 

I can feel upset at the person who abandoned my cousin and sympathize with my cousin for going through expensive insemination to be utterly dropped with no note or warning to be a single parent again at 10 weeks pregnant.

 

It doesn't mean I'm going to hunt down her ex and bring down the wrath. It means I don't have a problem feeling things as a part of processing it.

 

My feelings aren't based on whether the other person "cares about my feelings about them."

 

I expect no response of any kind from Donald Trump over my feelings. I doubt he would care in the least. Unless I posted on his twitter feed. Then there's probably 1 in 5 odds that he'd go off and say something nuts.

[Whoknew30]

Having a feeling about a person and/or their actions doesn't signal a significant investment.

 

It's weird thinking. Only be upset if it can target the person?

 

I don't like Donald Trump. I don't see the rest of my life falling apart because of it. I can't even vote or not vote for him, I'm Canadian.

 

I can feel upset at the person who abandoned my cousin and sympathize with my cousin for going through expensive insemination to be utterly dropped with no note or warning to be a single parent again at 10 weeks pregnant.

 

It doesn't mean I'm going to hunt down her ex and bring down the wrath. It means I don't have a problem feeling things as a part of processing it.

 

My feelings aren't based on whether the other person "cares about my feelings about them."

 

I expect no response of any kind from Donald Trump over my feelings. I doubt he would care in the least. Unless I posted on his twitter feed. Then there's probably 1 in 5 odds that he'd go off and say something nuts.

 

 

Your cousin's ex isn't you. We were talking what personally has happened to one. My cousin's husband shot her, I could careless what happens to her Ex while he rots in prison.

 

The conversation is about how the AP isn't your problem, your WS is.

[dreamingoftigers]

Your cousin's ex isn't you. We were talking what personally has happened to one. My cousin's husband shot her, I could careless what happens to her Ex while he rots in prison.

 

The conversation is about how the AP isn't your problem, your WS is.

 

But the point in the conversation I was responding to was the idea that "what's the point of being Angry with someone who can just walk away and not care?"

 

My counter-point is that my anger about something or someone isn't contingent upon them caring. It's my feeling and if it helps me process what happened then yay.

 

I can be upset by lots of things that I don't have any power over. I can find them upsetting and irritating and it doesn't mean my life will be taken over or overrun with them. It doesn't mean by any stretch that it will seep elsewhere into my life.

 

I can be disgusted by my H's former APs (and I very much am disgusted by their actions). I can be mad that they helped violate my life in such a manner. And that is on them.

 

Sure, my husband, who I was also mad and disgusted with....in fact for a long time I just felt like he was a dirty s*** ....let them in.

 

But it's pretty basic. If someone invited me over to trash a marital home that they co-owned, I wouldn't go. Because that isn't okay. If the husband said, "we are going to loot my wife's jewellery, she's a bitch anyway" I sure wouldn't go there and pick up some bling. Not a chance. I would think, "what a crappy husband. I feel bad for her."

 

Or even if I knew the wife was "crazy" or whatever, I wouldn't think it was my god-given right to display her jewellery because her husband handed it over to me. If anything I would be HIGHLY put off. I would avoid HIM and HER like some kind of crazy disease. I wouldn't want HIM seeping into other parts of my life. I would actually be insulted that this character would think I would be complicit in the destruction of another person's home or security.

 

The fact that other women thought it was "just fine" to invade my life is angering. But that didn't mean I didn't take more action and feeling toward my husband.

[Whoknew30]

But the point in the conversation I was responding to was the idea that "what's the point of being Angry with someone who can just walk away and not care?"

 

My counter-point is that my anger about something or someone isn't contingent upon them caring. It's my feeling and if it helps me process what happened then yay.

 

I can be upset by lots of things that I don't have any power over. I can find them upsetting and irritating and it doesn't mean my life will be taken over or overrun with them. It doesn't mean by any stretch that it will seep elsewhere into my life.

 

I can be disgusted by my H's former APs (and I very much am disgusted by their actions). I can be mad that they helped violate my life in such a manner. And that is on them.

 

Sure, my husband, who I was also mad and disgusted with....in fact for a long time I just felt like he was a dirty s*** ....let them in.

 

But it's pretty basic. If someone invited me over to trash a marital home that they co-owned, I wouldn't go. Because that isn't okay. If the husband said, "we are going to loot my wife's jewellery, she's a bitch anyway" I sure wouldn't go there and pick up some bling. Not a chance. I would think, "what a crappy husband. I feel bad for her."

 

Or even if I knew the wife was "crazy" or whatever, I wouldn't think it was my god-given right to display her jewellery because her husband handed it over to me. If anything I would be HIGHLY put off. I would avoid HIM and HER like some kind of crazy disease. I wouldn't want HIM seeping into other parts of my life. I would actually be insulted that this character would think I would be complicit in the destruction of another person's home or security.

 

The fact that other women thought it was "just fine" to invade my life is angering. But that didn't mean I didn't take more action and feeling toward my husband.

 

 

I'm saying "staying" angry, does what? You can't be angry & it doesn't affect you in other ways. It's a stress & poison to only oneself.

 

Now are you still married?

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm saying "staying" angry, does what? You can't be angry & it doesn't affect you in other ways. It's a stress & poison to only oneself.

 

Now are you still married?

 

Now, thers's no one advocating "stay angry forevermore."

 

But as for the usefulness of anger overall, its another emotion that passes in and through. Just like with grief. My dog died that I had before I had children, the grief was incredible. But it passed. I still miss her. But I don't break down as I did.

 

It wasn't "useful" to anyone else per se. But she was mine and my feelings were mine. I think that stifling anger with a "what's the use?" actually breeds more problems down the line, just like any unacknowledged emotion.

 

I am still married.

 

Do I still feel my husband is a dirty s***?

 

No. I couldn't have stayed married to him if I did. I could not have reconciled that with a life partner.

 

Doesn't mean those feelings didn't take a long time to evb and the trust a long time to rebuild. (Still working on that).

[SolG]

Your cousin's ex isn't you. We were talking what personally has happened to one. My cousin's husband shot her, I could careless what happens to her Ex while he rots in prison.

 

The conversation is about how the AP isn't your problem, your WS is.

 

Whoknew I think you're missing part of the point some of he posters are making. Let me offer an analogy.

 

Your SO goes behind your back and makes a risky investment. They know it's unwise and that you won't approve, so they go to great lengths to hide it from you. They in conjuction with their investment adviser/partner alter the books so you don't know. And worse yet, because he's become so financially enmeshed with this adviser, he fails to do due diligence checks.

 

Lo and behold the opportunity turns out to be a swindle and the adviser a confidence tricksterl. You finally find out when you realise they have absconded with the bulk of your family's savings. The subsequent investigation goes nowhere, the adviser is most probably off sippng cocktails in a tax haven

 

Yes your SO is culpable and deserves significant ire on many fronts. They initiated, they chose, they lied, they were irresponsible, their actions have had a direct and irrevocable negative effect on your family. But should you because of this truth conclude that the adviser had no part to play and does not deserve a measure of blame and negative emotion?

 

Now if you were to focus exclusively on the adviser and fail to acknowledge or address your SO's role, that would be delusional and avoidant. As would be to focus too heavily in that way. However, to recognise and apportion culpability and emotion appropriately without fixating or transferring... That actually sounds healthy to me :-/

[JamesM]

Now it is time for someone to present a different opinion.

 

The WS, the AP, AND the BS are the problem in many affairs.

 

I could end there, but I guess I will explain.

 

Like has been said, every affair is different, so generalizations can't be made. Knowing that, my opinion applies to some and not all affairs.

 

 

So using myself as an example, I will try to explain why I think everyone is at fault.

 

Affairs aren't always started with the WS looking for an AP. Many are started because two individuals become close and carry the friendship to an intimate level. The ones in the affair suddenly enter Affairyland and forget about reality.

 

When DDay occurs everyone blames the other and so the marriage dissolves and the affair ends with all lives being ruined.

 

If that were me, then my wife would say that we have a happy marriage and she could not understand how I could throw everything out the window for some other woman.

 

Yet if she were even partially honest, then she would know as many here do that our sexless marriage weighs heavily on me. I have tried everything with mixed results. And yes, I have now been here ten years and during that time, she has been told enough times how important sex is to me and us. She would admit that I have told her. Now in the last few months, I have given up so I do not bother telling her how I feel anymore. It isn't worth my time, nor does it help my emotions to dwell on it.

 

So hypothetically (and yes, it is) along comes a woman who captures my heart by showing physical affection. I am smitten.

 

Yes, I made the choice to start the affair. Yes, the AP made the choice to join me. And here is the one thing that is forgotten. My wife (the BS) made her choice long ago to no longer enjoy sex and its connection with me despite my anger, begging and courting.

 

To my wife having conversations with me over coffee and lunches are very important. Without them she feels that we don't have a connection. When I don't do them, she pouts and says she needs me to listen and talk with her or she feels distant. Luckily for her, I do enjoy these talks but not always. If I want to get out, the she feels that it is personal sometimes. Yet she cannot make the same connection to me wanting that intimate connection with her. Since she doesn't feel that need, then she thinks I shouldn't need it either. (And yes, she has said that).

 

So now along comes a woman who recognizes that void in me. She sees me as a great listener and friend. She knows that every relationship involves pleasing each person in a way that he or she needs it. So she fills my void and I fill hers. We grow to love one another.

 

The reality is that an affair does not usually start in a vacuum with one person simply deciding that an affair would be an interesting diversion. There are many factors that can cause a person to choose an affair, and there are many ways to prevent one.

 

All my wife has to do is recognize that for our marriage to work, it takes two. While I need to listen and talk with her and be her emotional support, she needs to take the time to really try and enjoy sexual relations so that our love can be expressed physically. This makes me feel closer to her. Talking and friendship help, but I need more than a good friend.

 

Saying simply that it is all the WS's fault because he or she should have communicated the problems to the BS is being naive. Reality is that many times the WS has communicated it in many ways. Should he have chosen an affair? No.

 

Do affairs happen in happy marriages? Of course. Do they happen because some men or women want variety? Yes. But is that the norm? Based on reading many stories here and on other boards and knowing how my own marriage is, I would have to say no.

 

Affairs are the result often because a marriage is broken before the affair starts. If we were to say someone is more at fault, then we can say the WS. If we were to say that someone has the least amount of fault, then often we can't say that it is the BS or the AP.

 

Right now there are many marriages that are on the brink of an affair. The reason one hasn't happened yet is simply because the OM or OW hasn't entered the picture. Either person in that broken marriage could be the WS and either could be the BS. All they need is a little push from the OP and off they go.

[Whoknew30]

Now it is time for someone to present a different opinion.

 

The WS, the AP, AND the BS are the problem in many affairs.

 

I could end there, but I guess I will explain.

 

Like has been said, every affair is different, so generalizations can't be made. Knowing that, my opinion applies to some and not all affairs.

 

 

So using myself as an example, I will try to explain why I think everyone is at fault.

 

Affairs aren't always started with the WS looking for an AP. Many are started because two individuals become close and carry the friendship to an intimate level. The ones in the affair suddenly enter Affairyland and forget about reality.

 

When DDay occurs everyone blames the other and so the marriage dissolves and the affair ends with all lives being ruined.

 

If that were me, then my wife would say that we have a happy marriage and she could not understand how I could throw everything out the window for some other woman.

 

Yet if she were even partially honest, then she would know as many here do that our sexless marriage weighs heavily on me. I have tried everything with mixed results. And yes, I have now been here ten years and during that time, she has been told enough times how important sex is to me and us. She would admit that I have told her. Now in the last few months, I have given up so I do not bother telling her how I feel anymore. It isn't worth my time, nor does it help my emotions to dwell on it.

 

So hypothetically (and yes, it is) along comes a woman who captures my heart by showing physical affection. I am smitten.

 

Yes, I made the choice to start the affair. Yes, the AP made the choice to join me. And here is the one thing that is forgotten. My wife (the BS) made her choice long ago to no longer enjoy sex and its connection with me despite my anger, begging and courting.

 

To my wife having conversations with me over coffee and lunches are very important. Without them she feels that we don't have a connection. When I don't do them, she pouts and says she needs me to listen and talk with her or she feels distant. Luckily for her, I do enjoy these talks but not always. If I want to get out, the she feels that it is personal sometimes. Yet she cannot make the same connection to me wanting that intimate connection with her. Since she doesn't feel that need, then she thinks I shouldn't need it either. (And yes, she has said that).

 

So now along comes a woman who recognizes that void in me. She sees me as a great listener and friend. She knows that every relationship involves pleasing each person in a way that he or she needs it. So she fills my void and I fill hers. We grow to love one another.

 

The reality is that an affair does not usually start in a vacuum with one person simply deciding that an affair would be an interesting diversion. There are many factors that can cause a person to choose an affair, and there are many ways to prevent one.

 

All my wife has to do is recognize that for our marriage to work, it takes two. While I need to listen and talk with her and be her emotional support, she needs to take the time to really try and enjoy sexual relations so that our love can be expressed physically. This makes me feel closer to her. Talking and friendship help, but I need more than a good friend.

 

Saying simply that it is all the WS's fault because he or she should have communicated the problems to the BS is being naive. Reality is that many times the WS has communicated it in many ways. Should he have chosen an affair? No.

 

Do affairs happen in happy marriages? Of course. Do they happen because some men or women want variety? Yes. But is that the norm? Based on reading many stories here and on other boards and knowing how my own marriage is, I would have to say no.

 

Affairs are the result often because a marriage is broken before the affair starts. If we were to say someone is more at fault, then we can say the WS. If we were to say that someone has the least amount of fault, then often we can't say that it is the BS or the AP.

 

Right now there are many marriages that are on the brink of an affair. The reason one hasn't happened yet is simply because the OM or OW hasn't entered the picture. Either person in that broken marriage could be the WS and either could be the BS. All they need is a little push from the OP and off they go.

 

 

100% would be my husband's fault for falling for that! I'd blame him all the way! I know what I'd say, either you bring our money back or don't come home, you did this you better damn well take care of it. I would already know the person that stole the money doesn't care & why would my H be that stupid!

 

Now with saying that this is a bad analogy bc you still have a chance to get back what was taken. You can't in an A, it starts over as a new relationship. So no I wouldn't care about the person that stole the money. They wouldn't have been able to do that if my H didn't hand it over.

[Whoknew30]

100% would be my husband's fault for falling for that! I'd blame him all the way! I know what I'd say, either you bring our money back or don't come home, you did this you better damn well take care of it. I would already know the person that stole the money doesn't care & why would my H be that stupid!

 

Now with saying that this is a bad analogy bc you still have a chance to get back what was taken. You can't in an A, it starts over as a new relationship. So no I wouldn't care about the person that stole the money. They wouldn't have been able to do that if my H didn't hand it over.

 

 

Sorry James, this reply wasn't made for you! It was for the post above!