what do y'all think?

[newbby]

i read yet another article today about affairs which described the ow as emotionally immature and self absorbed, the same article held a rather more sympathetic view of the cs. after stomping my foot for half an hour and wailing "why are you all picking on me?" (joke) i got really annoyed, no wonder the ow ALWAYS gets ALL of the blame with this kind of media manipulation. i concluded that all married people must be insecure.

[jj003]

newbby,

why do you care what other people think so much?

Let them think what ever they want to think, it is their freedom to think as they wish

as long as you know it yourself that you are NOT immature and insecure,

I'd say, the hell with them...

[LucreziaBorgia]

Yeah, I'm with you on the unfairness of the blame game. Its a reinforcement of the idea that the 'sanctity of marriage', as if by magic - erases all vestiges of human nature from both partners, and buffs and polishes all traces of human foible and flaw away. Its easier to believe that when a person strays, the MM and OW are some horrible, warped sick individuals rather than the very vulnerable human beings they really are - human beings capable of making mistakes.

 

A ring and a piece of paper don't change human beings. Promises and vows don't change human beings. People have this really strange idea that being married changes you on a biochemical level. You can have several partners before you are married - but... if you get that ring on and sign that paper - then there's some idea that just by the virtue of being married, you will automatically never, ever find another human being attractive or want to be with someone else for the rest of your life. People struggle to separate themselves from their own imperfect human natures. Part of that is the insistence that monogamy is a 'right' and not a 'choice'. They forget that monogamy is a choice both partners have to make every day, to themselves and to each other - and help each other reinforce that choice - discuss what would happen if one of the partners is having trouble making that choice. Its in environments that ignore this and see monogamy as a G_d given right rather than a choice - that breeds secrecy, resentment, and obligation. Take away the idea of choice, and you have an obligational trap.

 

Should you stray from this artificial mindset and revert back to your basic human nature and end up making an unfortunate choice: you are considered 'sick'. Should an OW fall in love with a MM, she is considered 'sick' - even though if she and he were single and fell in love there would be no problem. Its the refusal to buy into the 'sanctity of marriage' that people find threatening. Because you put your human nature and your heart above a 'tradition/institution' - you are somehow 'emotionally insecure'. At best, the most I could say is that an OW is taking a great risk getting involved with someone how almost always is never quite strong enough to be anything but a cakeman. He is firmly caught between his basic human nature and what is expected of him as a person who has evolved past that, through the 'magic' of marriage.

 

His BS feels entitled to fidelity (because society teaches her that), and should her H not provide that - then almost always, its not because the H is a flawed human being who made the wrong choices for his marriage - its because the evil OW came along and broke the 'magic marriage spell' and turned a perfectly happy automatically-monogamous man instantly into a raving p*ssy hound. The BS is crushed, angry and unable to understand that her H made a choice - because in her marriage, she just assumed the choice wasn't there.

 

So, blame it on the OW - there is nothing that will convince her that if OW hadn't come along, her H would have NEVER strayed. I feel really bad for the BS who gets blindsided by that and watches everything she thought she knew about marriage come crashing down. She and her H have been fed media influence their entire lives that told them 'this won't ever happen to YOU', and when it did - it leaves all parties involved on the losing end of the game.

 

The magic marriage ring and piece of paper can't guarantee that partners will always be able to make the right choice at any given time. It isn't a 'given' that infidelity can never happen. Unfortunately, the idea of marital fidelity is taken for granted and when it happens or when it is not 'honored' by outsiders, its not because the people involved are human beings - its because they are mentally ill, or something is 'wrong' with them.

[MySugaree]

LucreziaBorgia, you're one of the best writers on love, infidelity and marriage whom I've encountered. You illuminate with compassion, precision and grace the "dark" matter of erotic relationships.

 

Your contributions here are simply brilliant.

 

Carry on, woman.

[Owl]

LB-

 

I can't wholly agree with you, my friend. Monogamy is NOT a choice that someone makes everyday. It's a choice that person makes on the day that they get married...and everyday after THAT is supposed to be lived in accordance with that decision. It's a promise made during your wedding vows. And if you truly feel that you can't honor that choice, bluntly, you should never marry. (and by you, I don't mean YOU LB...I mean people in general).

 

I made a commitment to my wife 17+ years ago. I'm still living that commitment today.

 

As far as blaming the OM/OW...well, most BS's (like me) will blame the OP very much for a good while. But, hopefully they'll reach a point where they can step back and see things more clearly. I've forgiven my wife, and I've forgiven the OM in her case as well. Now...I'll never trust him again...he'll never be a friend again. I don't think very highly of him, because of the betrayed friendship and trust. And that may not be fair...of course, I've given my wife the chance to regain that trust and friendship with me...but I'll never give him that chance. But at the end of the day, I don't wish him any harm. In fact, I hope that he found someone else, and he's happy with them now. It would make me feel better to know that he's not still looking for someone, and so I know that he'd have no reason to try to reach out to my wife again as well.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Monogamy is NOT a choice that someone makes everyday. It's a choice that person makes on the day that they get married...and everyday after THAT is supposed to be lived in accordance with that decision. It's a promise made during your wedding vows. And if you truly feel that you can't honor that choice, bluntly, you should never marry.

 

I've been on your side of the stick, too Owl - and it isn't a good feeling. I blamed the OW. I wished she would die. I would fantasize about all sorts of painful and horrible ways to torture her, hurt her - my rage was incandescent. Over time, I came to a new understanding about these things. I sought to dig deeper, and examine the rage itself: why exactly was I feeling it? Who exactly was I angry with and why? I pondered on it a long while. I'm fairly objective about it now, but I can still empathise with that anger and pain that BS's feel. From being on the other side of the fence, I can also empathise with the 'dark side' so to speak.

 

If I learned anything about my experience with that, it was this one thing: the promise you make on one day is made by a person who will, with time, grow and evolve past that 'person you are at that time' standing at the altar - and as you grow and evolve as a person and your partner grows and evolves as a person - the relationship itself will grow and evolve - meaning, that you have to carry that promise with you every single day so that it can grow along with you. You have to let it grow along with you and let it be a natural part of your commitment to one another. Don't let it become just one part of a ceremony, and then assume that it will carry you for the next lifetime - you don't want one of you or the relationship to outgrow that promise, and find that it no longer works for them. Couples honor those vows and make that monogamy choice during a ceremony - and they should also consider and revisit that promise every day in their hearts - lest they grow out of the person they were when they made that promise to you, and find they can't live up to a promise they made years ago by a person they were long ago. While one partner can easily live up to that choice made on one day, without having to revisit it - its not a guarantee that the other partner can - hence, the need not to question your own convictions - but to reinforce them as the marriage grows and develops over time.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

Yeah, I'm with you on the unfairness of the blame game. Its a reinforcement of the idea that the 'sanctity of marriage', as if by magic - erases all vestiges of human nature from both partners, and buffs and polishes all traces of human foible and flaw away. Its easier to believe that when a person strays, the MM and OW are some horrible, warped sick individuals rather than the very vulnerable human beings they really are - human beings capable of making mistakes.

 

A ring and a piece of paper don't change human beings. Promises and vows don't change human beings. People have this really strange idea that being married changes you on a biochemical level. You can have several partners before you are married - but... if you get that ring on and sign that paper - then there's some idea that just by the virtue of being married, you will automatically never, ever find another human being attractive or want to be with someone else for the rest of your life. People struggle to separate themselves from their own imperfect human natures. Part of that is the insistence that monogamy is a 'right' and not a 'choice'. They forget that monogamy is a choice both partners have to make every day, to themselves and to each other - and help each other reinforce that choice - discuss what would happen if one of the partners is having trouble making that choice. Its in environments that ignore this and see monogamy as a G_d given right rather than a choice - that breeds secrecy, resentment, and obligation. Take away the idea of choice, and you have an obligational trap.

 

Should you stray from this artificial mindset and revert back to your basic human nature and end up making an unfortunate choice: you are considered 'sick'. Should an OW fall in love with a MM, she is considered 'sick' - even though if she and he were single and fell in love there would be no problem. Its the refusal to buy into the 'sanctity of marriage' that people find threatening. Because you put your human nature and your heart above a 'tradition/institution' - you are somehow 'emotionally insecure'. At best, the most I could say is that an OW is taking a great risk getting involved with someone how almost always is never quite strong enough to be anything but a cakeman. He is firmly caught between his basic human nature and what is expected of him as a person who has evolved past that, through the 'magic' of marriage.

 

His BS feels entitled to fidelity (because society teaches her that), and should her H not provide that - then almost always, its not because the H is a flawed human being who made the wrong choices for his marriage - its because the evil OW came along and broke the 'magic marriage spell' and turned a perfectly happy automatically-monogamous man instantly into a raving p*ssy hound. The BS is crushed, angry and unable to understand that her H made a choice - because in her marriage, she just assumed the choice wasn't there.

 

So, blame it on the OW - there is nothing that will convince her that if OW hadn't come along, her H would have NEVER strayed. I feel really bad for the BS who gets blindsided by that and watches everything she thought she knew about marriage come crashing down. She and her H have been fed media influence their entire lives that told them 'this won't ever happen to YOU', and when it did - it leaves all parties involved on the losing end of the game.

 

The magic marriage ring and piece of paper can't guarantee that partners will always be able to make the right choice at any given time. It isn't a 'given' that infidelity can never happen. Unfortunately, the idea of marital fidelity is taken for granted and when it happens or when it is not 'honored' by outsiders, its not because the people involved are human beings - its because they are mentally ill, or something is 'wrong' with them.

 

Hmm, all good points, I am being sincere when I say that.

 

You answered the posters question about the stigma that the OW gets in the media, as well as, in the general public.

 

But is it right to say the OW/OM has "something wrong with them"? Should it really be a stigma?

 

My answer is yes. I also believe that the MM/MW involved in the affair should be and are to some extent included, as well.

 

Your right, ink on paper and a ring does not change a person. But this goes both ways. A marriage can't keep a person faithfull but it also doesn't make a person want to have more then one partner.

 

Your view is that it's human nature so it's "OK" or "it can't be helped, it's the nature of the beast so don't put me down" or say something is "wrong" with them.

 

Here's the thing, because human beings are aware of their basic human nature, laws and regulations are put in place to keep the "bad" traits in check. Remember, ink on paper still doesn't change human nature but it does keep them in check with some form of punishment and/or psychological help. Of course, some humans still break these laws because such is the nature of the beast. In socieity, people that break laws, rules and/or agreements are stigmatized.

 

In general, what's considered a "bad" trait is any type of harm caused by one human being to another. This can be in any way, shape or form; physically, spiritually and mentally. Infidelity causes harm to the wife/husband upon discovery of their partner's affair. Not to mention children (if any) and extended family. Since causing harm to another individual is viewed by society as something is "wrong", the person is then considered mentally ill or disturbed.

 

Now, there are no laws against infidelity, at least in the US, but a marriage license is a declaration of 2 individuals consenting to a monogamous relationship. Society views this partnership as off limits to anyone. Think of this as one of the many unwritten rules. Of course being the nature of the beast "some" will break this rule.

 

To the general public and media, once you break this rule, you are frowned upon, stigmatized and viewed as "evil".

 

Why is the OW/OM looked on as the worst of the two in the affair? Why the stigma?

 

Again, look at how a husband and wife are viewed by society. In general, when two people get marry it's because they have found their "sole mate", "the perfect companion". The bride and groom have consented to a monogamouse relationship because they feel they don't need anyone else and they are declaring to the world that they are off limits.

 

When an affair happens, society views the OM/OW as breaking that rule and ignoring the declaration of the married couple. Even if the OM/OW didn't know the person was married at the beginning, it is irrelevant because eventually they do find out that the person is married.

 

Remeber, I am giving a general view of society. Each scenario and circumstance is diffrent for all affairs but society always generalizes and takes the "you should have known better" view (remember the unwritten rule). Thus the stigma of being the OW/OM.

 

Of course, I am not going to leave out the role of the MM/MW because it takes two to tango.

 

As you know, the MM/MW have broken their vows and declaration. IMO, I believe they have lost something bigger to society......trust and dependability. This should be a stigma but society doesn't look at it that way for MM/MW.

 

Society can't accept (remember I am generalizing) a person making a declaration then blatantly breaking it. Trust is lost. The persons character comes to question. But strangely, society doesn't view the person as mentally ill. Is it because they have broken a vow but not a rule?

 

Is is safe to say, a declaration that was not lived up to by an individual, while frowned upon, is not stigmatized?

While a rule that is broken by an individual is frowned upon and labeled as something is "wrong" with them and a stigma is born.

[Owl]

Wait a minute...as far as I know, every state DOES have laws against adultery. The problem is in ENFORCING those laws.

[LucreziaBorgia]

In my state there is "alienation of affection" and "criminal conversation" in which a BS can sue an OW/OM for damages if the marriage ends because of the affair - and, there is a 3 year statute of limitations. The highest reward I've seen thus far from just internet searching was 1.7 million. I believe there are a few other states that allow for this as well.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder what the impact would be if all 50 states went to this. Would affairs still happen in the same numbers, if there were crippling monetary damages that would result? Would it affect the divorce rate? I wonder if people would consider divorce before considering an affair, if they knew their OW or OM would be paying out some hefty cash along with xW or xH alimony? Would divorce go up or down? Would affairs be the new black market?

 

Can't help to to wonder.

[jj003]

LucreziaBorgia.

such a brilliant speech!!!! I cannot agree with you more on all your points!

Once my ex told me he thought he was falling in love with my best friend, i told him to go for it, give it a try...

If I love him and care for him, I should more than anything want him to be happy, why would i force him to stay with me and be unhappy thinking of the other woman?

This is not love?

I don't care what vows he made to me, we are all human, we all have emotions, we do change and we do make mistake

Just because he promised me once he'll stay with me for the rest of my life doesn't mean that I have to enforce this promise regardless of how it makes him unhappy.

No one can see into the future, just because we signed a piece of paper once doesn't mean that we have to blame another person if they happen to change their mind, if they are not happy, or fall in love with someone else...

I believe all those W who truly love their H should want him to be above all else, happy

even that means losing their H

anyway, personally, i think, why would i want to be with someone who is not in love with me?

I do not need anyone to feel any obligation towards me other than love...

[jj003]

LucreziaBorgia

 

I agree with you except on your last post.....

[LucreziaBorgia]

You mean my devil's advocate question? Its really more of a hypothetical thing, rather than a reflection of my personal thoughts on it. It would be interesting to see the societal impact of such a thing.

 

I came pretty close to finding myself on the losing end of that, actually. I knew a man who was disenchanted with his marriage, and he would talk to me about it - insomuch as I had time to listen, anyway. I wasn't interested, so like a fool - instead of actually trying to help in the situation, I foisted him off onto someone else: whom he promptly started an affair with and left his wife for.

 

I feel bad for that. Now, some years later - I would have handled it differently, but... I do remember when the W smacked him down with a crippling divorce, he tried to blame me for encouraging him to end his marriage in order to protect his OW. She got named in the divorce, ultimately - since she ended up sharing a residence with him - but I can't help but to wonder what would have happened if I did get named, even if I hadn't had an affair with him. I don't know what came of the trial. The xH and I haven't spoken since, and the OW left town eventually (they were co-workers who lost their jobs over this - the place we worked had a strict policy against 'fraternization' and it caused A LOT of problems in the workplace).

[newbby]

EXACTLY LB!!

because marriage is considered the perfect state and married people are considered higher beings.

also when people talk of a normal healthy relationship they talk about how one should never consider that they 'own' another and yet when people speak of ow they say they should not take something that 'belongs' to another.

it is indeed like people think once they are married that is it, the goal has been reached, now everything will be perfect.

bronzepen, i think people hurt each other all the time but most of the time they dont mean to. do you for instance always buy fairtrade?? i mean you KNOW you should but do you? or ALWAYS recycle?? we are all human and we all try our best but sometimes we dont do EVERYTHING in consideration of everyone else. sometimes we are unhappy and see a small chance of happiness that we just take. it is not with intent to hurt.

we make the best decision for the time for us, and it isnt always the right one for us or someone else.

jj i dont spend my days worrying about what people think of me, i do however dislike such harsh judgement and misunderstanding based on, well just on people not thinking really.

owl i know what you are saying that you made a commitment and are dedicated to that choice and it is great that you have never let yourself down and you should be very happy regardless of what anyone else has done.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by newbby

bronzepen, i think people hurt each other all the time but most of the time they dont mean to. do you for instance always buy fairtrade?? i mean you KNOW you should but do you? or ALWAYS recycle?? we are all human and we all try our best but sometimes we dont do EVERYTHING in consideration of everyone else. sometimes we are unhappy and see a small chance of happiness that we just take. it is not with intent to hurt.

we make the best decision for the time for us, and it isnt always the right one for us or someone else.

 

 

Ah, you've hit on a good point. But here's the thing, should we then disregard, excuse and/or let go free anyone who causes harm to another individual simply because it was not their intent to hurt? Do we get them help or do they need help? Do we simply ignore them?

 

Does self interest take precedence over the well being of another person?

 

Is not thinking before acting a wide spread problem and can this be stopped or curbed?

[jj003]

Bronzepen,

so what do you recommend? just because we made a decision once, we have to live with it for the rest of our lives even if we happened to make a wrong decision? I think people can change their mind as long as they are honest about it...we are all humans, we have feelings, we change also, can you say that you are the same person as you were 20 years ago? we can only do what we think is best at the time, but it doesn't means that it may NOT be a mistake....

[newbby]

oh yes definetly bronzepen,

all i was saying is that we are ALL guilty of it.

the ow or at least most ow are not generally awful people that they are depicted as.

the key is to try to find enlightenment and happiness within, i am not speaking of psychobabble trying to cure low self esteem i am talking about trying to find the centre so that the ego does not take full reign and that goes for everybody. it is a worldwide human disease and compassion for others and understanding is as much a part of the cure as anything you are talking about.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

Bronzepen,

so what do you recommend? just because we made a decision once, we have to live with it for the rest of our lives even if we happened to make a wrong decision? I think people can change their mind as long as they are honest about it...we are all humans, we have feelings, we change also, can you say that you are the same person as you were 20 years ago? we can only do what we think is best at the time, but it doesn't means that it may NOT be a mistake....

 

 

The question posed was, how do we stop this from happening before a mistake is even made or realized.

 

Is it even a mistake to begin with?

 

Currently society deems it a mistake but can this be changed, is it a good thing to change? Is it worth changing?

 

My recommendation, you ask?

 

Personally I don't think it's possible to change human nature. Infidelity is a taboo that will never go away. Actually it's very wide spread, I think that's why it's never been a law, making it illegal to cheat. Too many people doing it. Sure there are some blue laws but none are enforced. Plus infidelity is very very hard to prove in the courts. So the next best thing is to chastise and look down on those who do.

 

 

oh yes definetly bronzepen,

all i was saying is that we are ALL guilty of it.

the ow or at least most ow are not generally awful people that they are depicted as.

the key is to try to find enlightenment and happiness within, i am not speaking of psychobabble trying to cure low self esteem i am talking about trying to find the centre so that the ego does not take full reign and that goes for everybody. it is a worldwide human disease and compassion for others and understanding is as much a part of the cure as anything you are talking about.

 

 

Not everyone who has broken the law or unwritten rule are awful people but should compassion and understanding turn a blind eye to injustice and self interest?

 

Do we pick and choose? Case by case study? Do we know all the facts? Who are we to judge? But we do.

 

Here's the thing, it's also human nature to judge, another "bad" trait. We can't help it. Nature of the beast.

[newbby]

Here's the thing, it's also human nature to judge, another "bad" trait. We can't help it. Nature of the beast.

 

my point exactly, we are ALL guilty.

the key is to try to heal ourselves. ALL of us.

dont get me wrong i am not saying that being an ow was an ok decision, i am saying that i made a bad choice and grabbed at what i thought was a little happiness, but i am dealing with myself about that.

i need to find enlightenment, we all do

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

The question posed was, how do we stop this from happening before a mistake is even made or realized.

Is it even a mistake to begin with? Personally I don't think it's possible to change human nature

.

when one calls it a mistake, one is already judging....! rules are made to be broken, if some ideas or thoughts are "outdated", we change, this is called progress!

Just because the majority believe one should or must behave in a certain way doesn't mean this certain way of behavior is absolutely right and we must never change...if we all think like that, we will still be living in the middle ages.

 

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Not everyone who has broken the law or unwritten rule are awful people but should compassion and understanding turn a blind eye to injustice and self interest?

 

Do we pick and choose? Case by case study? Do we know all the facts? Who are we to judge? But we do.

 

Here's the thing, it's also human nature to judge, another "bad" trait. We can't help it. Nature of the beast.

 

when you said." who are we to judge? but we do"

You are talking about yourself and a certain group of people, maybe a large group, still there are others out there like me, I think I am in no position to judge anyone because I am not better than them. who am I to judge

my brother in law walked out on my sis and their kids and married the OW( yes, it does happens) their son was very upset, my advice to him" There must be a reason your dad is doing this and it doesn't mean he loves you less, maybe he is happier this way, if you love him, you should want him to be happy"

Perhaps, compassion and love begin in NOT judging another, in accepting another, and in respecting their choice...

[blackchild]

newbby you read my post you don't think that i'm insecure and self absorbed? if you feel that i

m not then that's example of how day in and day out women deal with such unfair double-standards. i figured why not get use to it, just like i got to racism. i don't like it but i'm not going to let it stop me from living the life i wanna live. **** what people say about the other woman! People need to be trashing the guy who is disrespecting women by lying and cheating on them! by the way WOMEN WHO READ THIS POST! DON'T GET MAD AT THE OTHER WOMAN UNLESS WHO KNOW THAT SHE KNEW YOU! AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS BEAT BOTH (MAN AND THE WOMAN) THEY ASSES! BUT OTHER THAN THAT BE UPSET WITH THE PIG YOU LET SLEEP IN YOUR BED WITH YOU EVERY NIGHT!

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

when one calls it a mistake, one is already judging....! rules are made to be broken, if some ideas or thoughts are "outdated", we change, this is called progress!

Just because the majority believe one should or must behave in a certain way doesn't mean this certain way of behavior is absolutely right and we must never change...if we all think like that, we will still be living in the middle ages.

 

So your saying infidelity should not be looked down upon but should be embraced?

 

Just looking for clarification.

 

 

 

when you said." who are we to judge? but we do"

You are talking about yourself and a certain group of people, maybe a large group, still there are others out there like me, I think I am in no position to judge anyone because I am not better than them. who am I to judge

my brother in law walked out on my sis and their kids and married the OW( yes, it does happens) their son was very upset, my advice to him" There must be a reason your dad is doing this and it doesn't mean he loves you less, maybe he is happier this way, if you love him, you should want him to be happy"

Perhaps, compassion and love begin in NOT judging another, in accepting another, and in respecting their choice...

 

 

Oh I disagree. We all judge, including you.

 

Judging is not about who is better or who is worse. We all judge people base on their actions and reputations.

 

Mother Theresa helped the poor, I would JUDGE her to be a compassionate and caring person.

 

Son of Sam (David Burkowitz) is a serial killer, I would JUDGE him to be a crazy sob.

 

I don't think of myself as being better or worse then the individuals mentioned above. It's irrelevant and has no factor on how you or I view them.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

So your saying infidelity should not be looked down upon but should be embraced?

 

Just looking for clarification.

.

You are right, I do not look down on infidelity. If my H falls in love with another woman, I would think either that he never really loved me or he nolonger loves me, or loves me enough...if it were the first, that he never really loved me, then it was my mistake as well as his to get marry in the first place, perhaps I did not really understand what love is when I married him or I was mistaken to believe that he loved me, either way, I am to blame as much as he is. In the second place, if he loved me once and nolonger loves me, then I would ask myself, why I am not able to keep his love? perhaps I wasn't being understanding of him? of his needs? I couldn't give him the support he needs or the friendship he seeks, or we just simply grown apart? If this were the case, why would I blame him if he could find someone else whom he could be happy with? Just because he made some vows to me, it doesn't mean he must do as he promised once even if he were not happy with it, and if I really love him, I should want him to be happy, I would not want him to feel obligated to me in any ways just because he signed a piece of paper, it would have no meaning, I want him to stay with me only out of love..

 

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Oh I disagree. We all judge, including you.

Judging is not about who is better or who is worse. We all judge people base on their actions and reputations.

Mother Theresa helped the poor, I would JUDGE her to be a compassionate and caring person.

Son of Sam (David Burkowitz) is a serial killer, I would JUDGE him to be a crazy sob.

I don't think of myself as being better or worse then the individuals mentioned above. It's irrelevant and has no factor on how you or I view them

.

 

By judging, we are implying that the other person is right or wrong, good or bad. In our society, we can have only one wife, but in some societies, they can have up to 4 wives, I would not say we are right and they are wrong, I would only think we have different ways of seeing things, different values. Just because you believe in something that I do not agree upon, it doesn't make you wrong and I right!

I do not think of Son of Sam to be anything but a mentally ill person, was he wrong? he simply needed medical care, it was unfortunate that he was left to do what he did.....

I hope you would not equal the OW or the mm to son of sam, just because your H falls in love with someone else, it doesn't make him a killer.

And I hope you do not equal all wives to Mother Teresa, you are talking about things on a different level !! Also, there may be others who are just as compassionate and caring as Mother Teresa, but they may have less ability to help or less press coverage, it doesn't make their contributions any less worthwhile...look at all those volunteers at organizations like Medicines sans Frontiers, they are not Mother Teresa, but I would respect them the same nevertheless...

 

As for the mm sleeping around with women just for sex, we need to ask ourselves? why are we so stupid to marry such man? and why are we so stupid to fall for such men and be used for sex? at the end, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

[erika2610]

Originally posted by blackchild

newbby you read my post you don't think that i'm insecure and self absorbed? if you feel that i

m not then that's example of how day in and day out women deal with such unfair double-standards. i figured why not get use to it, just like i got to racism. i don't like it but i'm not going to let it stop me from living the life i wanna live. **** what people say about the other woman! People need to be trashing the guy who is disrespecting women by lying and cheating on them! by the way WOMEN WHO READ THIS POST! DON'T GET MAD AT THE OTHER WOMAN UNLESS WHO KNOW THAT SHE KNEW YOU! AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS BEAT BOTH (MAN AND THE WOMAN) THEY ASSES! BUT OTHER THAN THAT BE UPSET WITH THE PIG YOU LET SLEEP IN YOUR BED WITH YOU EVERY NIGHT!

 

But you, being the OW, aren't completely blameless though..

[jj003]

Originally posted by blackchild

newbby you read my post you don't think that i'm insecure and self absorbed? if you feel that i

m not then that's example of how day in and day out women deal with such unfair double-standards. i figured why not get use to it, just like i got to racism. i don't like it but i'm not going to let it stop me from living the life i wanna live. **** what people say about the other woman! People need to be trashing the guy who is disrespecting women by lying and cheating on them! by the way WOMEN WHO READ THIS POST! DON'T GET MAD AT THE OTHER WOMAN UNLESS WHO KNOW THAT SHE KNEW YOU! AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS BEAT BOTH (MAN AND THE WOMAN) THEY ASSES! BUT OTHER THAN THAT BE UPSET WITH THE PIG YOU LET SLEEP IN YOUR BED WITH YOU EVERY NIGHT!

Blackchild,

If you talk like this, calling names...etc, ,: "AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS BEAT BOTH (MAN AND THE WOMAN) THEY ASSES! BUT OTHER THAN THAT BE UPSET WITH THE PIG YOU LET SLEEP IN YOUR BED WITH YOU EVERY NIGHT!"

you cannot help but have others think of you as insecure and self absorbed...perhaps even a bit stupid...

Fortunately, not all OW think like you and I have read many repectful posts here, from women who really cared and really loved...so I think whether something is right or wrong(if there is ever a right or wrong) is depends on the person doing it or how they approach it!!

[jj003]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

You mean my devil's advocate question? Its really more of a hypothetical thing, rather than a reflection of my personal thoughts on it. It would be interesting to see the societal impact of such a thing.

 

I came pretty close to finding myself on the losing end of that, actually. I knew a man who was disenchanted with his marriage, and he would talk to me about it - insomuch as I had time to listen, anyway. I wasn't interested, so like a fool - instead of actually trying to help in the situation, I foisted him off onto someone else: whom he promptly started an affair with and left his wife for.

 

I feel bad for that. Now, some years later - I would have handled it differently, but... I do remember when the W smacked him down with a crippling divorce, he tried to blame me for encouraging him to end his marriage in order to protect his OW. She got named in the divorce, ultimately - since she ended up sharing a residence with him - but I can't help but to wonder what would have happened if I did get named, even if I hadn't had an affair with him. I don't know what came of the trial. The xH and I haven't spoken since, and the OW left town eventually (they were co-workers who lost their jobs over this - the place we worked had a strict policy against 'fraternization' and it caused A LOT of problems in the workplace).

 

I do admire your personal thoughts...

The mm you mentioned seems to be a pretty sad figure, he should take responsibility fot his own action rather than blaming you or anyone for it. It was probably good that you didn't get involved with him. Feel sorry for the OW..