what do y'all think?

[jj003]

There really is no point to argue with you, in your world, there is only balck and white, no other colors, and you words must be correct or else you would twist others owrds into something they do not mean !!

But I do happen to know about contracts and the court, you know, even if you have a contract, you have to spend tens of thousands to defend your position in court, and depending on the legal representatives on the other sides, you still may not win...you know what, because there ain't any real justice, justice is something needed to be enforced with money=lawyers fees...(which can go up to US$500-600/hour)

so please stop saying the society condemn those who break the contracts, or their promise, if it were the case, no one need to spend a large sum of money to enforce the contract, and still, they may loose.!!!!

you simpy don't get it, seeing a person short coming and accepting it is not judging them, it is the fact, we only judge when we think they are right or wrong, guilty or not!!!

so please stop applying your values to others, you may see the world different than me, but it doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong!!!

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

There really is no point to argue with you, in your world, there is only balck and white, no other colors, and you words must be correct or else you would twist others owrds into something they do not mean !!

But I do happen to know about contracts and the court, you know, even if you have a contract, you have to spend tens of thousands to defend your position in court, and depending on the legal representatives on the other sides, you still may not win...you know what, because there ain't any real justice, justice is something needed to be enforced with money=lawyers fees...(which can go up to US$500-600/hour)

so please stop saying the society condemn those who break the contracts, or their promise, if it were the case, no one need to spend a large sum of money to enforce the contract, and still, they may loose.!!!!

you simpy don't get it, seeing a person short coming and accepting it is not judging them, it is the fact, we only judge when we think they are right or wrong, guilty or not!!!

so please stop applying your values to others, you may see the world different than me, but it doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong!!!

 

 

Since the beginning I have been speaking from a majority point of view. I never stated it was right or wrong. But since you are insecure about yourself you take it as a personal attack or negative interpretation. So you just assume it's about right and wrong. This is a perfect example of the insecure meat eater.

 

It's not about winning or losing. It's not even about values. It's about human nature and how society condemns what it considers certain "bad" traits.

 

Whether it may be in a court of law or a person judging an individual. What it comes down to is society condemns people that break rules.

 

Judging is not about right or wrong it's about forming an opinion of a person based on their actions and reputations.

 

When a person believes their values, morals, actions are superior or inferior to another person and/or they have to put down a person to feel better about themselves, that's just an insecure person. It's not judging.

 

We judge these individuals when we call them a**h***s.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Since the beginning I have been speaking from a majority point of view. I never stated it was right or wrong. But since you are insecure about yourself you take it as a personal attack or negative interpretation. So you just assume it's about right and wrong. This is a perfect example of the insecure meat eater.

 

It's not about winning or losing. It's not even about values. It's about human nature and how society condemns what it considers certain "bad" traits.

 

Whether it may be in a court of law or a person judging an individual. What it comes down to is society condemns people that break rules.

 

Judging is not about right or wrong it's about forming an opinion of a person based on their actions and reputations.

 

When a person believes their values, morals, actions are superior or inferior to another person and/or they have to put down a person to feel better about themselves, that's just an insecure person. It's not judging.

 

We judge these individuals when we call them a**h***s.

 

Just prove my point, you are the one that called me insecure ! you are the one who said"or they have to put down a person to feel better about themselves, that's just an insecure person. It's not judging.

 

We judge these individuals when we call them a**h***s."

 

you are the one who call names (a**h***s)

you are the one putting down people !

I will NOT WASTE my time to discuss with you further, because it is pontless, you judge people and you call names and blame it on the society !!

BTW, I never call you or anyone a**h***s !!!!

Please have some respect for yourself !

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

Just prove my point, you are the one that called me insecure ! you are the one who said"or they have to put down a person to feel better about themselves, that's just an insecure person. It's not judging.

 

We judge these individuals when we call them a**h***s."

 

you are the one who call names (a**h***s)

you are the one putting down people !

I will NOT WASTE my time to discuss with you further, because it is pontless, you judge people and you call names and blame it on the society !!

BTW, I never call you or anyone a**h***s !!!!

Please have some respect for yourself !

 

????

 

When did I call any names???

 

Are you always this negative?

 

You seem to have this "The world is out to get me" attitude.

 

OK, here's the thing about this whole topic.......it not about you!

 

 

Here read this again and maybe you understand what I am talking about when I said you were an insecure meat eater.

 

"An insecure person who is at the tale end of a judgement will always feel like it's a Superior to inferior judgement call. Insecure people are always sizeing up themselves to others because they lack self confidence.

 

You give an excellent example of what I am talking about. See, if I was a secure meat eater, I would never even consider whether I am superior or not to a vegetarian. Because what another person chooses to eat is irrelevant to me and will have not have any factor on what I choose to eat or how I feel about myself. I am happy about my decision. My happiness is from within.

 

But if I am insecure then my preoccupation about my decision to be a meat eater is reflected on how others think of my decision. Their opinion means more to me then my decision because I lack the confidence to know whether or not my decision is valid. So I look for others who are like me to validate my decision. For those who oppose (vegetarians) I will judge them inferior in order to validate my decision to be a meat eater. This will give a false "feeling better" emotion because in actuality I still lack the confidence to know whether my decision is valid. My happiness is fueled from the outside but inside it's empty. Empty shells crack easy."

 

"Because society condemns OW/OM behavior, "insecure" OW/OM will then judge society. They become the insecure meat eater. The OW/OM are preoccupied about how society views them. So they will judge those who oppose them.

 

The secure OW/OM can care less about what society thinks because they are happy about their decision."

 

"On one hand your defending your actions to society. On another your questioning society's perception and attitude.

 

Seperate the two and it will be easier to see how society works and not work.

 

I believe that as long as the institution of marriage is in place, infidelity will always be a taboo."

 

 

 

Please try to look at this from an objective point of view.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

????

 

When did I call any names???

 

Are you always this negative?

 

You seem to have this "The world is out to get me" attitude.You give an excellent example of what I am talking about. See, if I was a secure meat eater, I would never even consider whether I am superior or not to a vegetarian. Because what another person chooses to eat is irrelevant to me and will have not have any factor on what I choose to eat or how I feel about myself. I am happy about my decision. My happiness is from within

 

.

when did i ever say i care what the society thinks?? just for your info, I have never slept with a mm...!! there is nothing for me to be defensive about...but I do not look down on those OW that slept with mm, you know why, because I am NOT them, I do not know their reasons or how they feel !! There fore I would NOT judge if they are right or wrong...who knows, maybe if I were in their positions, I may sleep with a mm too...or if I were so madly in love, i may not care either...!

 

I just think if you were so secure, you would not keep telling people what they are thinking? you would not say others are insecure ...etc ! you are NOT them, you don't even know them? what right you have to judge them ???

and please stop telling us what the society can accept or not, it is only your opinion !!!! let others decide for themselves, if one is so secure, there is no need to impose one's view on others, like insisting people judge others like one does !!

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

when did i ever say i care what the society thinks?? just for your info, I have never slept with a mm...!! there is nothing for me to be defensive about...but I do not look down on those OW that slept with mm, you know why, because I am NOT them, I do not know their reasons or how they feel !! There fore I would NOT judge if they are right or wrong...who knows, maybe if I were in their positions, I may sleep with a mm too...or if I were so madly in love, i may not care either...!

 

I just think if you were so secure, you would not keep telling people what they are thinking? you would not say others are insecure ...etc ! you are NOT them, you don't even know them? what right you have to judge them ???

and please stop telling us what the society can accept or not, it is only your opinion !!!! let others decide for themselves, if one is so secure, there is no need to impose one's view on others, like insisting people judge others like one does !!

 

Again, it not about you. This whole conversation is about how society views infidelity. Nothing I said, was directed at you.

 

My quotes were taken from my converstion with newbby.

 

That's fine that you do not look down upon OW/OM. That is not what I talking about.

 

You are insecure because its very important to you that everyone (society) knows that you do not judge people (even though, we all do).

 

If you were secure, you could careless when people say you judge.

 

Here's the thing, if you want to change the way society thinks, don't let the judges (society) make you insecure.

 

BTW it's not my opinion what society thinks because, remember what the original question on this thread was about.

[newbby]

Hmm, all good points, I am being sincere when I say that.

 

You answered the posters question about the stigma that the OW gets in the media, as well as, in the general public.

 

But is it right to say the OW/OM has "something wrong with them"? Should it really be a stigma?

 

My answer is yes. I also believe that the MM/MW involved in the affair should be and are to some extent included, as well.

 

Your right, ink on paper and a ring does not change a person. But this goes both ways. A marriage can't keep a person faithfull but it also doesn't make a person want to have more then one partner.

 

Your view is that it's human nature so it's "OK" or "it can't be helped, it's the nature of the beast so don't put me down" or say something is "wrong" with them.

 

 

sorry to interrupt this very entertaining arguement but bronzepen i think you will see that THIS is where you made it YOUR view, right at the beggining. You then proceeded with "society thinks..."

therefore you gave both myself and jj the very strong impression that this was indeed your opinion

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by newbby

sorry to interrupt this very entertaining arguement but bronzepen i think you will see that THIS is where you made it YOUR view, right at the beggining. You then proceeded with "society thinks..."

therefore you gave both myself and jj the very strong impression that this was indeed your opinion

 

 

Don't see how.

 

 

My view was that human nature is what causes a person to have an affair. Along the same lines as Lucrezia. Except Lucrezia believes that since it's human nature we should forgive and accept.

 

I then went on to explain how society cannot forgive and forget because it stigmatizes this "bad" human trait.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

 

 

You are insecure because its very important to you that everyone (society) knows that you do not judge people (even though, we all do).

 

If you were secure, you could careless when people say you judge.

 

Here's the thing, if you want to change the way society thinks, don't let the judges (society) make you insecure.

 

BTW it's not my opinion what society thinks because, remember what the original question on this thread was about.

 

you know what???? I am sick and tired that there are people like you keep insisting that what other people is or is not, that I am in secure because I do not agree with you that what a judge is !!! that you cannot accept other may not think like you !!!! that if they disagree with you, that make them insecure !!!!

what kind of person that makes you ?????????

It has nothing to do with one being secure or not !!

It has something to do with what one think is Just or fair? a person denies that he is a thief is being insecure????

A person denies that he lied about something because he really did not lie is insecure??

You seem to live in a world that no one can have rights to defend themselves or their belief if they are unjustly blamed

because if they do, they are insecure!!

we are all a judge is YOUR belief, NOT mine?

I have again and again replied that you may think different than me and it's ok that we do not think alike...

But you must insist that your way is the only way= we are all judges

why do I need to agree with you?

and by not agreeing with you, I am insecure???

I wonder what kind of world you live in?

ASK YOURSELF THIS before you impose your ideas on others any further!!

[jj003]

Originally posted by newbby

sorry to interrupt this very entertaining arguement but bronzepen i think you will see that THIS is where you made it YOUR view, right at the beggining. You then proceeded with "society thinks..."

therefore you gave both myself and jj the very strong impression that this was indeed your opinion

I should quote this here, newbby

 

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to pound through some thick skulls here. And I mean they're THICK!!!! Not much room for brains, just the parts that control eating and pooping.

 

 

One had better be beyond reproach in their own relationship if they wish to express dissaproval of someone elses. The bit about glass houses and rocks.

don't you agree????????

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Don't see how.

 

 

My view was that human nature is what causes a person to have an affair. Along the same lines as Lucrezia. Except Lucrezia believes that since it's human nature we should forgive and accept.

 

I then went on to explain how society cannot forgive and forget because it stigmatizes this "bad" human trait.

This is purely your view of the society !!!!

see, this is my point !!!!!

Since you are so secure, Please, there is really NO need to convince us of your view of the society any further !!!

or are you being insecure?

[Bronzepen]

People like me? For a person that says you never judge, well you just did.

 

I never insisted on anything. I never said my way of thinking is the only way or the right way.

 

But your insecurity has taken you for a loop and you are interpreting what I say as a negative. You have assumed (negatively) that I believe my point of view is just and right. But if you read what I said, I never mention it. To further add to your insecurity, you add the superior and inferior factor to your way of thinking.

 

If you were a secure person then right from the beginning you would have just said, "Well, I have a diffrent definition of judging and we will just have to agree to disagree." Simple.

 

But you took by interpretation as an attack (superior/inferior) and started to defend yourself by questioning my opinion. If your going to question my opions and beliefs then I will try my best to answer you so that you understand my POV. I am not trying to convince you to change your POV but you keep thinking I am because your insecure instead of understanding my POV.

 

You can understand another persons POV without having to agree with their POV.

 

As for society's views on infidelity, again look at the original question on this thread.

 

How the media views the OW/OM. Just in general. It is a stigma.

 

Remember, I am talking about the majority view.

 

I just don't see how you can say society does not look down on infidelity and say that is just my opinion.

 

 

Please, don't take everything with a grain of salt.

 

Learn to differentiat between a person that is just expressing a view and onother who is actually trying to cause you harm.

 

Learn to be more secure about yourself.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

People like me? For a person that says you never judge, well you just did.

 

I never insisted on anything. I never said my way of thinking is the only way or the right way.

 

But your insecurity has taken you for a loop and you are interpreting what I say as a negative. You have assumed (negatively) that I believe my point of view is just and right. But if you read what I said, I never mention it. To further add to your insecurity, you add the superior and inferior factor to your way of thinking.

 

If you were a secure person then right from the beginning you would have just said, "Well, I have a diffrent definition of judging and we will just have to agree to disagree." Simple.

 

But you took by interpretation as an attack (superior/inferior) and started to defend yourself by questioning my opinion. If your going to question my opions and beliefs then I will try my best to answer you so that you understand my POV. I am not trying to convince you to change your POV but you keep thinking I am because your insecure instead of understanding my POV.

 

You can understand another persons POV without having to agree with their POV.

 

As for society's views on infidelity, again look at the original question on this thread.

 

How the media views the OW/OM. Just in general. It is a stigma.

 

Remember, I am talking about the majority view.

 

I just don't see how you can say society does not look down on infidelity and say that is just my opinion.

 

 

Please, don't take everything with a grain of salt.

 

Learn to differentiat between a person that is just expressing a view and onother who is actually trying to cause you harm.

 

Learn to be more secure about yourself.

 

 

I will not comment further, cause you think you are always right, it is a waste of my time.....!!!you should take a look at this thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t64595/

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

I will not comment further, cause you think you are always right, it is a waste of my time.....!!!you should take a look at this thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t64595/

 

 

Then we agree to disagree.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Learn to be more secure about how you think about yourself and others.

[jj003]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Then we agree to disagree.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Learn to be more secure about how you think about yourself and others.

trust me, I never want to learn to be like you keep imposing your views on another !

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

trust me, I never want to learn to be like you keep imposing your views on another !

 

That's your misinterpretation and judgement.

 

The fault lies in your insecurities.

 

bubbye

[jj003]

we can all see, who like to judge others? insist that the other is a certain way?

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

we can all see, who like to judge others? insist that the other is a certain way?

 

I did say we ALL judge. Even you.

[whichwayisup]

Originally posted by jj003

we can all see, who like to judge others? insist that the other is a certain way?

 

We ALL judge, can't help it, the mind just does it and forms a real quick opinion. It's the logical thinking beyond that which counts.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

We ALL judge, can't help it, the mind just does it and forms a real quick opinion. It's the logical thinking beyond that which counts.

 

Agree.

[jj003]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

We ALL judge, can't help it, the mind just does it and forms a real quick opinion. It's the logical thinking beyond that which counts.

again, this is purely your opinion !!! don't expect others to agree with you !

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by jj003

again, this is purely your opinion !!! don't expect others to agree with you !

 

 

Not an opinion but a fact. It's human nature same as infidelity and all the other "bad" traits.

 

I challenge you to find someone that has never judged another human being or themselves.

 

People that say "I never judge." Have actually just judged themselves.

[newbby]

i think this has become an arguement over semantics,

i think jj means the word judge, as in dissaprove or look down on, whereas bp means the word as evaluate.

perhaps this may help you clear up your arguement

[jj003]

Originally posted by newbby

i think this has become an arguement over semantics,

i think jj means the word judge, as in dissaprove or look down on, whereas bp means the word as evaluate.

perhaps this may help you clear up your argument

 

thanks newbby, I mean the word judge = I make a decision on if you are good, bad, right, wrong, etc. But I think we are not the other person, we do not know all their stories, or how they really feel, or why they did what they did, so i prefer not to say they are right or wrong, good or bad...rather, i would like to think they do whatever they do for a reason, a reason I may not understand, but I would reserve my "judgment on if it is good or bad, right or wrong...etc

just like some BS like to think that the love of OW are not as deep...etc, my question is always, how do they know? they are not the OW?

I think we should accept that people are different, that's what make us individual

I guess it is a different interpretation of the word"judge"

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by newbby

i think this has become an arguement over semantics,

i think jj means the word judge, as in dissaprove or look down on, whereas bp means the word as evaluate.

perhaps this may help you clear up your arguement

 

Semantics to a degree. How we define a word is based on how we look at ourselves and life in general.

 

The word "judge" is a perfect example.

 

People that are insecure view the word "judge" as dissaproving and implying right and wrong when they are being judged.

 

Where as people that are secure and accept who they are, can care less what people think of them and will call a spade a spade.

 

The concept of right and wrong is a human invention. We made it up. Self interest.

 

Buttom line, there is no right or wrong, only difference of opinion.

 

So let the BS think that the love of OW are not as deep, that's just their opinion.

 

Whether we agree or disagree is irrelevent.

 

Everyone has an opinion, so let them judge.