UNBELIEVABLE!!!! DISILLUSIONED? Also, found tatic that works......

[tanbark813]

I'm just saying that in my experience, and in reading stories on this board, 9 times out of 10 when a person is feeling "insecure" about a partner's faithfulness, it's because that partner isn't being faithful at all. We process much more information subconsciously than we do consciously. That gives rise to the instinctive feelings.

[sparkle & fade]

Thanks tanbark813..

 

No, I NEVER cheated on him, NEVER. I am not that type. Men make me nervous as it is, and with this one I almost didnt go out with him because I was so shy and he was confident, assertive, etc....You all know the type of guy. Those kind of guys scare me usually.

 

But he kept at it, and here we are, a year later.....

 

And no, he hasnt cheated on me (that I know of) but has shown signs of infedelity from time to time....

 

"You realize that now your jealousy is only going to be worse...you'll be more suspicious and he;s more likely to be decietful to avoid confrontation, regardless of what hes doing." --Miss fortune.

 

You are correct...But the only reason why I was jealous and have been jealous was because he was deceitful in the first place---to avoid confrontation....which caused me to freak out which caused him to lie more which caused me to freak out which caused him to lie more...and so on...that vicious cycle.

 

I didnt start out jealous...he started withholding the truth first. Because he doesnt want me to know what kind of life he really leads.

 

He always called me innocent. I thought he was that way too. But the more I see, the more I realize he is no more innocent than a theif at a bank. It has become increasingly clear that he is really a wolf in sheeps clothing.....

 

 

"True jealousy has no basis. Jealousy that is grounded by confirmed suspicion isn't jealousy at all; it's just having good gut instincts." tanbark813

 

Awesome..completely awesome...

[miss fortune]

I'm just saying that in my experience, and in reading stories on this board, 9 times out of 10 when a person is feeling "insecure" about a partner's faithfulness, it's because that partner isn't being faithful at all. We process much more information subconsciously than we do consciously. That gives rise to the instinctive feelings.

 

Ok that I agree with, I misunderstood what you meant

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by miss fortune

Ok that I agree with, I misunderstood what you meant

 

It's cool.

[joodee]

Originally posted by Female Guest

 

I decided that i would no longer snoop on anyone who i thought was cheating....i just decided to trust my gut and move on wihtout even bothering to tell the person. i know that its a waste to tell a liar and cheater that i want to move on because he will merely try to convince me not to and that like you I won't do my plans like hang out with my friends or meet new men. similar to him telling you to stay at home and work rather go out with your friends.

 

the reason he didn't want you to go with your friends is because he didn't want to take a risk that he might run into you. he also didn't want to risk you 'cheating' on him. he is very controlling and sucks the life out of you.

 

some people here may not advocate what I am about to say and you may not either....but you have to decide that you when you think someone is cheating on you....and your not married...that you WILL actively pursue the time and attention of other men. That is the only way i myself can deal with it and move on. i know that people might not agree and they might say well youshoudl talk about it first....but consider this...he didn't talk to you, did he?

 

I just love what this person wrote, it is so true!!!! It IS a waste of time to try to talk to a liar and cheater, I know. Try to move on. That whole work story just turns my stomach, don't let him do that to you.

[liswil]

I haven't read all the posts so this may have already been said.

 

First of all---don't stay with a liar. Trust me, it WON'T get better.

 

Also, if he lied about going to work, why do you believe him about playing pool with a friend? Guess what? That could be a lie too---and probably IS. Again, take it from someone who's been there. As for the "promise to God" thing---do you think that means anything to a liar??? It doesn't---no matter how "religious" they pretend to be.

 

Go read your post again and really look at this long, involved system you've set up for yourself. In a normal relationship you don't have to do that. It's not a good relationship if you have to come up with these "systems".

 

Don't let the liar (and probably cheater) let you think that it's you and your insecurity. Trust your feelings. I've found out that they're usually accurate. In the meantime, work on improving your self-esteem or you'll repeat this pattern later.

 

Do yourself a big, big favor and ditch this guy now. It's not going to change.

 

Btw, he wanted you to go out and do wash so that he'd know where you'd be and you couldn't run into him. Also that's why he wanted you to call him when you got back. Oh and one last thing, think back to some other incidents......I don't think this is the first time he's done this....and it won't be the last either....

[guest]

I think theres a lot to this story. One...you are over jealous and controlling. I mean, if the guy really did go to play pool with a friend why does he feel he has to lie about it. Ask him if or maybe yourself if this is really part of your relationship. If so, you really need to work on a lot of areas. I mean, you have to look at this from all sides. Im not saying he should be telling lies. No doubt, him telling lies all the time, even if they are small ones to just cover going to play pool with a friend is feeding into your insecurities. The only thing I can think is that if you actually have to use that advice tactic all the time......grilling him with the same question until he breaks.....then perhaps your asking the wrong question. Is this really the kind of relationship you want to invest in?

[sparkle & fade]

*******UPDATE***********

 

For those of you that care!!!

 

I stayed mad at him, and wrote him a letter, asking him what else he has lied to me about.....he basically said that I am ridiculous, completely ridiculous....he tried to brush it off....he asked me what reason he would have to go after another woman...I told him, I dont know, maybe boredom.

 

He told me:

 

I was crazy.

 

He loves me.

 

There is only one woman for him.

 

He isnt bored.

 

Somehow I was able to forgive him. Partly because what the last poster (guest) said was most likely somewhat correct and had somewhat relieved my fears...I guess....

 

I AM JEALOUS...Though JEALOUS is not the exact word for me.

 

More like:

 

EXTREMELY INSECURE...

 

He told me I have a bad complex and this is not his fault. He thinks I need to see a therapist.

 

BUT......I KNOW:

 

That his lying IS feeding into my security issues...and complex...I doubt myself alot...

 

"No doubt, him telling lies all the time, even if they are small ones to just cover going to play pool with a friend is feeding into your insecurities"....guest

 

So I think I will turn this into a new post because this is NOW what I need help with...

[liswil]

You can work on your insecurity--and should--for YOU. But that won't make him an honest person.

No one MADE him become a liar. You didn't CAUSE that.

 

So---work on becoming less insecure but don't expect him to suddenly not be a liar.

[greenhorn]

Originally posted by guest I mean, if the guy really did go to play pool with a friend why does he feel he has to lie about it.

 

Guest, how did you assume that he did go to play pool with his friend. Why would he lie about the playing thing? There is more than meets the eye, and for a moment if we assume that he did go to play pool then a person who speaks lie for such small things is a pathological liar. He has the potential to do wrong things lie about them as well.

 

The Original poster's fault of being insecure is not her fault, but something which has to do with his lying , for now she has assumed that he was telling truth, but this is just out of love that she is believing him.Deep inside her gut she must be knowing that he is not to be trusted.

 

I am more than sure that he is again going to lie and then the hurt and pain would be more than this time. A liar can never be trusted, not in a whole life time and if there is no trust then there is no relationship, when there is no trust one can't be blamed for being jealous, insecure or anything like that.

[sparkle & fade]

and if there is no trust then there is no relationship, when there is no trust one can't be blamed for being jealous, insecure or anything like that.

 

WOW........I guess I never thought of it like that before.....so, if he is sparing my feelings, does this still make him a bad person?? Will he change when he sees that I am capable of handling things?????

[liswil]

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

WOW........I guess I never thought of it like that before.....so, if he is sparing my feelings, does this still make him a bad person?? Will he change when he sees that I am capable of handling things?????

 

'Fraid not. You didn't cause him to lie.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

WOW........I guess I never thought of it like that before.....so, if he is sparing my feelings, does this still make him a bad person?? Will he change when he sees that I am capable of handling things?????

 

 

How has he spared your feelings? It sounds like you're pretty upset to me.

[greenhorn]

Originally posted by liswil

'Fraid not. You didn't cause him to lie.

 

I am with 'Liswil' on this, why are you stressing yourself for his lying? Tell me was there some past incident where you rebuked him for playing pool with his friends or spending some time with his friends ? If not then why he did lie to you ? He could have said that he is going to play pool and in that case you would neither have been jealous or insecure.

 

Trust is a major issue in any relationship, if you trust your bf then he might spend a night partying with his friends( girls or boy) and you won't be jealous or insecure. Trust is never one sided, trust has to be built up.

 

There is a reason why ppl don't commit on the first date, they meet again, spend few time together and then they realise that both can trust each other and then they become official bf-gf.

 

It has become a cliche to denounce " Jealousy" & "Insecurity", we should dig further to find out the exact reason for this. If one person is insecure then his/her partner is equally responsible for this.

 

Why on earth someone will become jealous or insecure for no reason ??

[sparkle & fade]

greenhorn:

 

No, I have never "rebuked" him for going out with his friends. However, because I never knew the people he was taking up with, I did ask a lot of questions, and was a bit insecure from time to time....

 

I believe that he didnt tell me because he didnt want me to come with him. He probably thought that as soon as he told me he was going to play pool, I was going to say "Me too, right?" and he didnt want to say "no" because then:

 

I would start to become uneasy.

 

as in:

 

"well, why not, are you hiding something, are you meeting up with girls, what is the deal"?

 

and his response naturally would be no, there are no girls, but how he approaches situations is:

 

If I make a big deal about something, he wont go. He must of really wanted to go and didnt want to be dissuaded.

 

AND NO,

 

I dont throw fits to get what I want. Not at all. But if I start becoming panicky and insecure, he will immediately call off plans. I HATE it when he does that. I dont ask him to do that. I just want him to reassure me. Give me a break, throw me a bone here, I am stuck in the house all the time cleaning and toiling my best years away, tell me its not all for nothing, you know???????

 

As in:

 

I dont mind doing small things to aid in a brighter future, such as cleaning the house, doing laundry, etc...wifey type things IF i know that we are BOTH working towards a future....TOGETHER. But I find out he was out playing around while I am cleaning.....AGAIN.....I want to go out too, sometimes. He knows this...

 

 

I think he wanted to have a guys night out, and didnt want me to come along, knowing I would ask, and he would have to say no, and then I would become suspicious, which would lead him to say forget the whole thing and rather than do that, he lied.

 

I dont admonish him for going out with his friends. But when I ask to go out, there is always a reason for why I have to stay home. ALWAYS. I have no friends, but I have a clean house!! This is not to say that he doesnt stay with me. He is always with me. Except for that night. We are always together. It could be possible he was itching to get out, away from me. I feel like a girl in a glass snowglobe forever hopelessly suspended.

 

I have learned a couple of things:

 

It is best to keep your feelings to yourself. The minute you start blabbing about how you feel, it comes back to bite you in the ...you know....

 

Along with feelings, keep your opinions to yourself.

 

If you feel like crying, DONT. Bite your cheek. Crying only makes him feel you are weaker, and need to be lied to.

[greenhorn]

Sparkle,

I can understand what you are saying, but I think you are making your self for being at fault for nothing. What is so difficult on his part if he tells you about his friends, who they are and when he meets them.

 

If he would have said that he is going to play pool and didn't want you to come, and had he never been lied to you then you would have not thought anything else. The fact that he hid this fact from you and then lied to you, strengthened the disbelief and insecurity issue in you. I once again will say that no one becomes inescure for nothing.

 

I think he needs to care about your feeling and your needs as well, relationships can't be just take, it has to be both ways.

 

I would like to give you one suggestion, don't make your whole life dependant on any single person, don't make a single person your entire source of happiness. Go out and have a life of your own, this will be good for you and good for your relationships. This way he will also feel that he has not always to think of your happiness. They always say that "don't put all the eggs in one basket ".

 

cheers

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

It is best to keep your feelings to yourself. The minute you start blabbing about how you feel, it comes back to bite you in the ...you know....

 

Along with feelings, keep your opinions to yourself.

 

If you feel like crying, DONT. Bite your cheek. Crying only makes him feel you are weaker, and need to be lied to.

 

Yes, relationships are most healthy when you keep all feelings and opinions to yourself. Communication and trust can only lead to disaster.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by tanbark813

Yes, relationships are most healthy when you keep all feelings and opinions to yourself. Communication and trust can only lead to disaster.

 

 

It's amazing how wonderful a relationship becomes when both parties learn to communicate openly and honestly.

[sparkle & fade]

tanbark813:

 

I just meant that I dont want to pester and pressure him...I am not that girl, you know???

 

case and point..

 

 

On sunday, I recieved some fish as a gift. I dont have a tank, so they have been sitting in a stew pot. I was going to go to the pet store, but bf told me to wait, that a friend of his has a tank and food I could have. Why not.

 

Well, we went over that friends house and they told us to come back today. I get off at 5, my bf gets off at 4. Originally he told me that he and another friend are going to the guys house to get the tank when he leaves work. I asked if I could go, and it was a "no" type of thing, ie we are leaving after work, etc...blah blah...sort of insisting that I dont go. Interesting because there was a daughter there at the house yesterday that was dressed very provocative....

 

but why does he need his other friend to pick up a fish tank? I may never know. It is a very small, light fish tank that I could pick up with one pinky.

 

So I ask him today when he is going. He says when his friend gets off of work, at 6, but yesterday he said that he was going when HE got off at work which is at 4. I say, well, I get off at 5, so I will be home....Kind of hesitant for me to go....not sure why, but I ask him when he will be back home and he says I dont know...I say, what, 7, 8, 9 at nite, when? He says "i dont know"

 

SO i ask him if he understands why I thought that was strange and he says no. I told him, going out with your friend for 5 hours to pick up one little fish tank from a house that is only 15 mins away is strange...

 

He said he didnt know why I said "5 hours"...I told him because he said he didnt know when he would be home.....

 

He said alright, if you like, come with. But he seemed upset by this prospect. So i said, I dont care if you go, I just want to know when you'll be back, or if you will be home when I get home, thats it.

 

He said

Never mind now, its too late. You always have problems with things. I am not going, you are just going to have to give the fish away as a gift. You always make a big deal about everything. I am not going now.

 

At which point I said:

Look, I dont care if you go, I just wanted to know when you are coming back is all

 

him

well its too late now....

 

me

Those are my fish, I dont want to give them away!!

 

 

Him

Oh well, I tried to do something nice for you, but you always have a problem....

 

 

I dont understand. Was this me???? Why didnt he want me to go to begin with? Why the vagueness,, is it REALLY me??? Maybe it is...

 

---------- confused...

[sparkle & fade]

tanbark813 & ConfusedInOC :

 

Yes Yes I get it....I think....VERY SARCASTIC, Thank you!

 

I just dont want to pester and be overbearing....but I try to break away and become independent and he doesnt like that either....

 

How to win?!!!! (rhetorical of course)

[sparkle & fade]

and besides, those fish are my ONLY friends, dammit!!!

[crazy_grl]

Sparkle, it's obvious that you have some major insecurities. But this guy is working you over, feeding those insecurities, and giving you horrible impressions of relationships.

 

Before you read the rest of what I have to say, I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to be belittling or make you feel bad, but you sound a lot like I used to be. I know how thick-headed I was about this kind of thing, and you seem to be just as bad or worse. So if anything seems harsh, it's because it seems like you need that to see reality.

 

Originally posted by liswil

Don't let the liar (and probably cheater) let you think that it's you and your insecurity. Trust your feelings. I've found out that they're usually accurate. In the meantime, work on improving your self-esteem or you'll repeat this pattern later.

 

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

He told me I have a bad complex and this is not his fault. He thinks I need to see a therapist.

 

You let him do exactly what someone warned you that he would try to do: convince you it's all your fault and your own insecurities.

 

You decided to take the guest's advice not because it was the best or most accurate. It's because it spoke to you. Why did it speak to you? Because it fits best into your system that will allow you to justify this guy's behavior and keep him in your life, because right now, you feel like you need him. You don't have any other friends, and you'd be lost and lonely without him.

 

Yes, maybe you should see a therapist, but not because this guy says you need one. You have insecurities you need to work out *alone*, without some guy who's only going to make those insecurites worse and tell you that there's something wrong with you.

 

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

I dont throw fits to get what I want. Not at all. But if I start becoming panicky and insecure, he will immediately call off plans. I HATE it when he does that. I dont ask him to do that. I just want him to reassure me. Give me a break, throw me a bone here

 

Do you really believe that it's so much work for him to throw you that bone? Is it really too much to ask him to be honest with you, have some balls, and say that he just wants to go out with his friends (if that's what he's really doing)? You don't yell at him, you don't make him feel bad, so he should have no problem with it.

 

I think he wanted to have a guys night out, and didnt want me to come along, knowing I would ask, and he would have to say no, and then I would become suspicious, which would lead him to say forget the whole thing and rather than do that, he lied.

 

So, he's a liar and he's gutless? Instead of telling you the truth and having to explain himself, he lies? I think you're just coming up with justifications for his behavior.

 

 

It is best to keep your feelings to yourself. The minute you start blabbing about how you feel, it comes back to bite you in the ...you know....

 

Along with feelings, keep your opinions to yourself.

 

If you feel like crying, DONT. Bite your cheek. Crying only makes him feel you are weaker, and need to be lied to.

 

The fact that he had you thinking this is the only sign you really need to know this is a bad relationship. Since you seem determined to hold onto this guy, you should seek out couples counseling, and if he's unwilling to go, get out of the relationship. This is NOT all your fault. You are NOT making him lie. If he isn't willing to admit that, then you should not be with him. Leave him if he won't go. It's going to be very hard, but in the long run, it will save you a lot of heart-ache. Leave this guy, get yourself some counseling, concentrate on making some friends, and you'll find yourself able to develop a relationship with a loving man who doesn't make you feel this insecure.

 

I don't personally think you should give him the option of the couples therapy. I think you should just leave, but you seem to be buying into his ridiculous lies, so it will be very hard for you to just end it.

 

I used to have a lot of insecurites (still have some), and I've had relationships with guys that fed them and guys that didn't. None of them ever fed my insecurities as much this guy is doing to you though. You need to find a guy who will not only throw you a bone, but will gladly give you assurances. They do exist. And you need to work on getting some confidence and security so that when you meet a guy who will treat you right, you can treat him right without letting those insecurities drive him away. And to reitterate: your lying guy is NOT one of these guys.

[crazy_grl]

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

tanbark813 & ConfusedInOC :

 

I just dont want to pester and be overbearing....but I try to break away and become independent and he doesnt like that either....

 

So you try to find ways to make yourself happy and he doesn't like it? He doesn't want you to have friends or a life outside of him? Meanwhile, he's out having fun with his friends, lying about where he's been, and all the while making you feel like it's your fault that he's a lying jerk?

 

I can see why you'd want to hold on to him.

 

How to win?!!!! (rhetorical of course)

 

Maybe rhetorical, but the answer is easy: Get rid of the guy who's making you miserable.

 

Even if it *is* all your fault, this relationship is making you miserable. The trust is almost completely gone in the relationship. And he's the one who destroyed it with his lying. You may have "caused him to feel like he had to lie", but it was his choice to do the lying. I repeat, HE destroyed the trust of his own free will.

 

Once trust is gone from a relationship, it's very difficult to get it back. It's going to take a lot more work to 'fix' yourself, him, *and* the relationship than it would just to overcome your insecurities on your own.

[liswil]

Originally posted by sparkle & fade

 

I dont understand. Was this me???? Why didnt he want me to go to begin with? Why the vagueness,, is it REALLY me??? Maybe it is...

 

---------- confused...

 

No, it's not you but you're becoming worse because of how he is. It is snowballing. And soon, it will end up with you looking like the problem completely.

 

Go ahead and follow him and sees if it's like he says it is. If you need to, do this on several occasions. I'm not advocating spying on someone but sometimes it takes that for a person to really see what's right in front of their face.

 

You're going to realize--and accept---that you're with a liar. There is no hope with liars.

 

You don't want to hear this but this relationship is already over. You could choose to see it now or choose to see it later--but you will see it. I've been there---and it took me awhile to REALLY see it.

[sparkle & fade]

"You don't want to hear this but this relationship is already over. You could choose to see it now or choose to see it later--but you will see it. I've been there---and it took me awhile to REALLY see it." ---- liswil

 

What did you mean by this?? Tell me how you have been there....How can I see it??? I like you and crazy_grl 's advice alot. You both have more there that I seem to grasp alot easier than the rest...

 

 

"So, he's a liar and he's gutless? Instead of telling you the truth and having to explain himself, he lies?" --- crazy_grl

 

 

What else, can I say, this pretty much sums it up.....

 

Another thing. Sometimes I feel like he ENJOYS feeding into my insecurities.

He could easily stop it.

He KNOWS where my insecurities are, what makes me feel jealous.

Sometimes I think he creates situations in which he knows I will react strongly to it and DELIBERATELY not explaining himself.

 

All of his friends and family think I am crazy and jealous...only they dont know the FULL story. And sadly, I have only figured out that this type of thing was going on recently, where everyone thinks I am crazy and jealous, so they have already aligned themselves with him tightly, and he doesnt have any qualms about randomly announcing how crazy and jealous I am to everyone around us.

 

 

Question:

 

Tonite, when I get home, I will tell him to go for the tank. I know he knows I will insist he goes alone with his friend. He will insist I go.

 

If I go, I think he will be sending those signals to everyone ie "I brought her along because she is jealous and crazy" as I heard his friend say yesterday.

 

If I dont go, he could be doing things that arent right and taking advantage of the situation.

 

as was stated:

 

"Is it really too much to ask him to be honest with you, have some balls, and say that he just wants to go out with his friends (if that's what he's really doing)?"

---- crazy_grl

 

This is EXACTLY my sentiments.....I am not sure what he is doing to me here, I dont know if this is his way of setting up the relationship for failure, or not. By Telling family and friends how crazy I am WITHOUT hearing my side of the story automatically allows him to behave in ANY fashion without reprimand from those who would normally warm up to me, you know??

 

Such as, they would be more likely to condone his cheating, even hooking him up with a chick because the one he has at home is a "crazy jealous nitemare" and he needs a new one,

 

or encouragement to leave me. She's too crazy etc...

 

or all of them active participents in lying to me about where he is going etc "oh she cant handle the truth"

 

or when he finally does leave me, everyone can understand why. If they really knew me, and not the title he gives me, they would really like me. Not that they dont now, they are just really cautious when talking to me, as if I might freak out at any moment.....