In a rut 😔

[Gloria_Smellons]

Hey Pickle,

 

I would suggest the affair I had was in some way 'similar' to yours... in that I knew he wasn't leaving and to his credit he never said he would, and for a time my affair suited me (ethics aside).

 

Until it didn't.

 

Maybe he changed, maybe I did, I'm not sure it even matters, but I knew that I wanted more. I wanted someone I could be with in a fully honest way, not just through the stolen moments and fantasy living, but also the 'real stuff'. Someone to do the routine, boring, every day stuff that makes up real life. Every day with MM felt like a holiday (admittedly I didn't see him as regularly as you see yours), and whilst that was good for a while, maybe I just grew up.

 

I'd always known going into it that this arrangement had a sell by date, I just wasn't sure when it was. Once I realised I had begun to want out... I didn't feel like I could cut the cord either. How could I go from having this person in my life every day to never speaking again? It felt like trying to go from getting up out of my seat to scaling a mountain. It felt impossible.

 

But, I did it. I actually don't know how long it's been since we last spoke (I deliberately don't keep track) but it's been nearly a year I think.

 

I'll tell you what worked for me personally, but really you just have to wait until you know you're ready and then find your own groove. There's no magic bullet and although I am in general a NC advocate, one solution doesn't always fit all.

 

Before I went NC I started withdrawing emotionally... i.e. We spoke (by speak I mean text just FYI) every day and whenever I had news, or amusing anecdotes, he would be the one I wanted to talk to first. I drafted in a friend (bless her) and started just offloading on her - sometimes on an hourly basis - just so I wouldn't text him. I didn't just stop texting him overnight, but I started by not texting him as often. Then I would text him about 'lighter' subjects rather than anything emotional/sex related and gradually got less and less 'personal' with him.

 

Before I knew it I had managed to go an entire night without texting him, Given that we used to text for at least 3-4 hours a night this was a big deal to me. Then one day, I was ready, and I just stopped.

 

That was it. I think because we'd already had the conversation that I knew we were going to end at some point (and I had also told him I had zero intention of being 'friends' with him when it finally did end) he didn't resist. I'm very grateful for that because that helped me immensely.

 

I have a boyfriend now, it's early days but things are going well. It doesn't feel the same... it's better

 

Good luck.

[Maddieandtae]

Pickle I'm not so sure online dating is the way to go. Just my opinion of course but I'm thinking it could conflict you further by bringing another person into the mix while your feelings are so strong for the married man. Have you thought about counselling to see if there are reasons other than married man that are keeping you in a rut? I do believe you love this man but sometimes people just want what they want at the expense of others and I just feel it's unfair to you and of course his wife. Secrets are soul destroying:(

 

When my ex-husband was in his affair his friends knew and they knew me. Nobody told me and it wasn't because they didn't like me, I'm assuming though because his frienships were his first and that's where their loyalties lied plus I think their commitment morals were just like his! Funny how once I knew they knew I thought less of the whole lot of them:)

 

Something also to think about is how many years you will see this go on for,

I have a friend who has been with an married man for ten years and it's eating her up into bitterness which is so sad. Think about you and where you see your future!

[BuddyX]

"He'll never go NC"

Are you sure about that? Once his wife finds out she'll give him an ultimatum Trust me, he'll look her in the eye and say "she means nothing to me. I want my wife and kids" and then he'll go NC.

If you read enough of these forums you'll see a pattern. Yes, they're outliers, but for the most part you're going to get hurt.

[sandylee1]

Dating while you're so stuck on him isn't the best idea ....it'snot fair to the new guy...but you could put yourself out there for a FWB or NSA situation. That way the guy knows the deal upfront and will have no expectations of you or a relationship.

 

You do need to stop seeing the MM while doing this or you won't be any better off..and you won't detach from him. You may get to enjoy feeling single again.

[PickledHead]

And therein lies my problem SandyLee - I can't stop seeing him. Every part of me knows I have to but I know realistically I can't and that's my rut. I think maybe just being more open to dates (casual) then I can get to meet other people and who knows what happens. I think as previously suggested, I just need to be honest that I have feelings elsewhere (without being specific) - it is that side of it that I have felt has been my barrier. I don't want to be lying to someone from the off.

 

Buddy - I know 100% without any shadow of a doubt he won't go NC on me regardless of what happens. End the relationship maybe, LC maybe but definately not NC.

 

His friends are not active supporters of us but see how we are together and see that he is happy and that is why they accept it. He has never strayed in any sense before and that Is a definate, whilst his actions appear to be confident, They are more from a naivety.

 

The suggestion of slowly cutting the amount of contact, context of conversations lighter seems more realistic for me so that may be my way forward

 

Thankyou again for everyone's replies

[Gigi2015]

And therein lies my problem SandyLee - I can't stop seeing him. Every part of me knows I have to but I know realistically I can't and that's my rut. I think maybe just being more open to dates (casual) then I can get to meet other people and who knows what happens. I think as previously suggested, I just need to be honest that I have feelings elsewhere (without being specific) - it is that side of it that I have felt has been my barrier. I don't want to be lying to someone from the off.

 

Buddy - I know 100% without any shadow of a doubt he won't go NC on me regardless of what happens. End the relationship maybe, LC maybe but definately not NC.

 

His friends are not active supporters of us but see how we are together andsee that he is happy and that is why they accept it. He has never strayed in any sense before and that Is a definate, whilst his actions appear to be confident, They are more from a naivety.

 

The suggestion of slowly cutting the amount of contact, context of conversations lighter seems more realistic for me so that may be my way forward

 

Thankyou again for everyone's replies

 

Come D-DAY he will let you go NC!! You're in denial. The man has TOLD you he WONT leave he's wife...so you better pray and hope d-day doesn't come...so you can still get his crumbs....since these are satisfying to you. If being second banana fits you...who can argue with you....and of COURSE you can stop seeing him...you're not soulless..but--I'm sure you won't leave until the pain is unbearable...it'll come.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Gigi2015

[PickledHead]

And when it does then that's something I will have to deal with. I'm not in denial about anything to be fair... He hasn't told me he won't leave because I have never asked him to. I know his circumstances and for that reason I wouldn't want him to leave.

 

This post was never about will he, won't he! It was how to broach dealing with other people whilst I am not willing to give him up and I have had good advice about that.

 

There are many things in this that I say where I could end up eating my words. Me saying he will not go NC is not one of them. If DDay comes, which I hope it never does, then things will change obviously but I have no concerns whatsoever with the NC part.

Edited February 9, 2016 by PickledHead

[imsosad]

1.How do you know he will not go nc?

When you get found out, his wife will insist. He will comply. You have to know that no matter what he says, you may stop talking in a split second. He has already made it clear that ultimately,he is choosing her over you because he will not leave her, so when he is up against the wall,he will drop you. You are so sure he wont,but i thin its wishful thinking on your part

2.he never strayed. Again, you are so sure and again,its wishful thinking.

You have no way of knowing. None.

3.I think you are disempowering yourself by repeating i cant,i cant,i cant.

Why are you drilling in to your own head that you cant end it? Why are you hanging on to this notion that you just cant do it? Why do you see yourself as so helpless?

I think you like the thought of it, because it makes it all seem oh so romantic.

If you want to carry on,you will. It is only up to you.

If you really think you would be better off ending this relationship,then stop.putting yourself down. Start by visualising and telling yourself that whatever you decide to do, the choice and power are yours.

You wil not be the first woman to let go of someone she is in love with.

Its like you are convincing yourself that you just have to continue.

Convince yourself that you can handle whatever comes your way and make your choices from a able stand point-whatever these choices might be.

[Gigi2015]

And when it does then that's something I will have to deal with. I'm not in denial about anything to be fair... He hasn't told me he won't leave because I have never asked him to. I know his circumstances and for that reason I wouldn't want him to leave.

 

This post was never about will he, won't he! It was how to broach dealing with other people whilst I am not willing to give him up and I have had good advice about that.

 

There are many things in this that I say where I could end up eating my words. Me saying he will not go NC is not one of them. If DDay comes, which I hope it never does, then things will change obviously but I have no concerns whatsoever with the NC part.

 

Then ask him to leave and you'll have your answer...everyone is here to HELP you NOT get confused. Don't feel like you'd have to eat your words...everyone here seems to be trying to support you...but remember initially you posted he was upfront about not wanting to leave wife...many AP think it's just a matter of patience and time...but--it's not ! It's actually a rarity if they do. Pay attention to actions, disregard words and make plans with implemented steps(that actually happen)...if not he's cake eating. Good luck love.

[Gigi2015]

And forgot to mention...he more than likely will ALWAYS come back to you(for seconds)...for as long as that's good enough for you. If you date he'll be jealous but NOT enough to get a divorce....You see cake eaters don't like competition...they like their harems intact. As long as they're getting what they want..they don't give a crap about your needs....not their wives or their OWs

[imsosad]

Oh,pickle.

Dont worry about eating your words. I know you're getting an earful,but i am sure every single reply was meant to help you,not out you down.

Listen,all of us who were involved in an A know the feeling. I know i have mafe some statements that are...well,seem ridiculous in retrospect. But now is not retrospect. This is how you feel now. I think youd be wise to read up on affair dynamics.it is an eye opener.

You dont have to prove us right or wrong

You must be kind to yourself

What will be,will be

[PickledHead]

1 - I know our relationship, I know their relationship and I know him. It's not wishful thinking, he just wouldn't. We have ways to communicate that would never be known and so there is a number of ways for him to remain in contact (even if reduced). When this ends it will be because I make that decision. A DDay would force my hand to stop it, but it wouldn't stop him.

2 - he has never strayed, I know his entire past down to every kiss. I know the initial shock of every one of his friends that he is doing what he is doing because he is the last person they would have expected it from. I know the type of person he is and how he interacts with women and it a definate he has never put a foot out of place.

3 -maybe I should change the can't to won't. It may be crumbs I am getting but I get more from him then a lot of people i see in open 'happy' relationships. He is there for me whenever I need him for whatever reason. I am very independent and so would never accept any financial gain from him But aside from that he is the first person I would turn to for anything.

 

I'm not trying to convince myself that I have to continue. I am overall happy. I know if I had him full time I would be happier but it's not an option so I don't think about it. I am just conscious that the day will come where this is not enough for me and I do want more and I am trying to prepare myself for that.

[Gigi2015]

1 - I know our relationship, I know their relationship and I know him. It's not wishful thinking, he just wouldn't. We have ways to communicate that would never be known and so there is a number of ways for him to remain in contact (even if reduced). When this ends it will be because I make that decision. A DDay would force my hand to stop it, but it wouldn't stop him.

2 - he has never strayed, I know his entire past down to every kiss. I know the initial shock of every one of his friends that he is doing what he is doing because he is the last person they would have expected it from. I know the type of person he is and how he interacts with women and it a definate he has never put a foot out of place.

3 -maybe I should change the can't to won't. It may be crumbs I am getting but I get more from him then a lot of people i see in open 'happy' relationships. He is there for me whenever I need him for whatever reason. I am very independent and so would never accept any financial gain from him But aside from that he is the first person I would turn to for anything.

 

I'm not trying to convince myself that I have to continue. I am overall happy. I know if I had him full time I would be happier but it's not an option so I don't think about it. I am just conscious that the day will come where this is not enough for me and I do want more and I am trying to prepare myself for that.

 

 

Excellent...happy wonderland to you! I bet you're even able to tell yourself he has to pretend ejaculating with his wife....he won't leave you on d-day(but he's told you he WON'T leave his wife)... I'm not sure where you get your assurances except from your own mind.

[PickledHead]

Gigi I know everyone is trying to offer support in their own way and I'm grateful for it. Like I said on an earlier post, If I get a bashing, maybe I deserve it

 

People are thinking we have had this conversation saying he will never leave. I haven't said that, I just said he won't. That doesn't mean he wants to/ doesn't want to, it just means he won't. I understand that completely, if I asked him too and was serious, would it make a difference?? Who knows but I'm not going to be doing it so it really doesn't matter.

[Gigi2015]

Gigi I know everyone is trying to offer support in their own way and I'm grateful for it. Like I said on an earlier post, If I get a bashing, maybe I deserve it

 

People are thinking we have had this conversation saying he will never leave. I haven't said that, I just said he won't. That doesn't mean he wants to/ doesn't want to, it just means he won't. I understand that completely, if I asked him too and was serious, would it make a difference?? Who knows but I'm not going to be doing it so it really doesn't matter.

 

Of coarse it would make a difference if he'd say he'd leave...because then you could stick to a plan with steps...,and if he didn't come through you'd know he was lying to you TOO(as many cake eaters do). But--you're to afraid to ask for a resolution? I'd that it? In the meantime he's making love to his wife! Not being inking here...simply realistic...

[imsosad]

Do you really think all the ow on this thread,single or married, thought that their affair partners were serial cheaters? Or that they would drop.them on dday?

There was a thread here about a month ago about ap just dissapearing. So many painful posts.

Do you think that a typical.affair begins with-hey,so ive done this a couple of times before,its really cool,do you want to be my side dish?

No.

Affairs begin with a promise. This is love. It has never happened to me before. Never! But i just cant get you off my mind. I think im falling in love with you. I wish id met you first. This is real. Im really serious about you. I may be married,but you are my real partner.im with her because i have to be. Its on paper. Youre my soul bride.

He may really care for you. Sometimes people do fall in love. But ay leadt take in to account that your affair is not the unicorn you think.it is.

People here speak from experience. My guess is,we all thought a bit like you at some point.

You know what, i hope for your sake you are the odd one out. The rules dont apply in affairs, you are playing with fire and most of us got burned

[PickledHead]

It's not that I'm not asking him for a resolution. we were friends first therefore I knew his situation before this ever went anywhere.

 

As much as a cow as it makes me, it was possibly part of why it started. I have been a BW - I have been on the other side and know it sucks. I was in a position where the last thing in the world I wanted was to be in a serious relationship and so when this started I felt safe. He was someone who couldn't expect anything from me as his circumstances would never allow for it. Had I known then it would have grown into what it has become I would quite possibly have ran but I didn't know and therefore find myself where I am

 

i am in no way proud of what I am caught up in and maybe that's what has led me here! I don't get off finding happiness (what makes me happy may not be for everyone, I get that) in this but he does make me happy!

 

If I seriously seriously asked him to leave, I don't know how he would react! If he left then From a completely selfish point of view of get him but at what cost?? I would have ruined him. I know you can't appreciate that without me providing details

 

i have specifically not mentioned sex as I don't want to fall foul to the 'that old chestnut' lines that would inadvertently come my way. As I keep trying to emphasise this post is not about me and him, it's about me trying to make some attempt to move on whilst he is still part of my life

 

Maybe that's not possible - that's what I came here to find out

[Be_Strong]

It's probably not possible for you to move on while keeping him a part of your life. When there's no outside pressure forcing you to stay apart (such as a spouse after d-day), you'd have to rely completely on your own will-power to move on. What's likely to happen if you went LC or decided to just be friends, is that you would both miss each other terribly and go running back into each other's arms. That would further reinforce your feelings for each other and make any subsequent attempts to separate even harder.

 

Typically, a woman who feels stuck in a situation because of her feelings will simply wait out her feelings. You, for example, could simply keep the status quo and hope that over time the flame dims and it becomes possible for you to escape. The problem, though, is that an affair setting greatly increases the time it takes for feelings to fade (if it ever fades at all). There's something about never completely having the other person to yourself that stokes the flames of desire for a lot longer than in a traditional relationship.

 

If I had to predict your situation, it seems highly likely that you will be a very long term affair for this man (15+) years. The fact that he is generally not paranoid about keeping you secret in all respects (for example not hiding you from his friends) when splitting with his wife would ruin his life (as you claim) tells me that his marriage with his wife is more of a business arrangement that is mutually beneficial to them both (think Bill and Hillary Clinton) where his wife would be angry if she found out but would never leave him.

[PickledHead]

BeStrong that is exactly what happened. I convinced myself that I would be bored in a month and then the next month came and went and it got stronger as opposed to dimming as I thought it would and then the months past and I set myself dates to call it a day but they past too.

 

I agree we could go on for years and how I feel now that doesn't actually bother me. From reading here and knowing how it just keeps getting stronger j don't want to find myself 15 years down the line looking back wondering what I was thinking and that is why I know as hard as it will be, I have to at least attempt moving on even if in a halfhearted attempt

[Be_Strong]

Be careful about making life decisions based on what society has decided is the preferred path in life. Many people will tell you, "you don't want to spend the nex 15 years as the OW and then find yourself regretting that you wasted away your life." The thing is, nobody knows what will happen in your life if you take any particular path. You could do the "right thing" and end the affair and start a traditional relationship, and 15 years in the future you could find yourself depressed and regretting that relationship.

 

Having said that, there is some general wisdom in being able to have a partner completely to yourself that you can grow old with. You are pretty much giving that up by staying in an affair. There are women who have been in very long term affairs that find themselves in a tough spot when it ends. They realize they are past their prime to find another suitable partner and it can be very depressing. Of course, the same thing can happen if a person's spouse dies and the surviving spouse is now left in the world as single person.

 

I think the main mistake you are making right now is not having very frank, open discussions about all things affair with your MM. It seems that you are generally avoiding some conversations with MM because you'd rather not think about certain things. A lot of OW torture themselves because they think things like, "I knew this guy was married when I began this relationship with him, so how can I ask him to leave his wife." You have every right to ask that question, just like he has every right to tell you he isn't leaving, and then both of you have the right to stay or go.

 

If you're afraid of upsetting the apple cart and are fine with the status quo, then continue on. But let me tell you this, a person truly in love with another would eagerly give up all the fame and fortune in the world in order to be with the one they love. If not, that person is more in love with money and fame than they are in love with the other person. That's why the "his life would be ruined" excuse simply doesn't fly. Losing my job, my career, my reputation, my wealth is all secondary to being with who I love. To me, my life is "ruined" if I can't be with the person I love the most and give them everything they want.

[Mascara]

I doubt you're that far from a dday if she's had suspicions. You don't confront or make accusations on suspicions, you wait until you have something to show. Because on a suspicion, he can deny deny deny.

 

So she's watching and waiting, meanwhile he thinks he's soothed her suspicions because she's let it drop. But if there's one thing that married men never ever learn, it's that once a woman is suspicious, it's never forgotten about until she's established proof one way or another.

[Hip Pocket]

I for one enjoy the discretion. Nobody at work bothers me about my guy whereas all the M ladies are in each other's business about what their H's are doing all of the time. I wonder what these people would be doing if they didn't have a M partner in their lives to talk about, lol. I just get my work done and smile knowing that I get to see my guy after work and nobody questions me about it and I'm keeping it that way.

 

how is he your "guy"?

 

I'm sure you're quite aware that commitments come from the heart before they come from documents, and my guy is mine as long as he wants to be mine and I'm his as long as I want to be his. I'm sorry if that offends you. We are together 11 years strong, going on 12, and so far this type of R (R as in relationship, not used to all the acronyms yet) has worked for us.

 

What we have is amazing and more than what I had when I was M. Though we are long distance (a long drive) we make it happen twice a week, so that's two dates and sex twice a week. Most M couples don't have that but we do and we are quite satisfied. I've seen the expression "crumbs" here a couple of times and I gotta tell ya, I'm getting 7-course meals! In fact, sometimes I break dates with him just to get a breather. I hope this isn't TMI, I'm not used to this site.

[Gigi2015]

At the end of the day:

 

You determine what you're ok with. Some people are ok with:

 

A seven course meal 2x/week

Having a man betray his family

Never being first for nights, weekends, holidays, vacations .

Being a side piece(no matter how special you feel when you're together)

 

It's up to you what you think you're worth and in which way you're fulfilled. Nobody can convince you of the opposite if you're dead set on being what you want to be

[Gigi2015]

Also--life is too short too have small expectations. Dream big..,,50% men don't ever cheat.

[sandylee1]

And when it does then that's something I will have to deal with. I'm not in denial about anything to be fair... He hasn't told me he won't leave because I have never asked him to. I know his circumstances and for that reason I wouldn't want him to leave.

 

This post was never about will he, won't he! It was how to broach dealing with other people whilst I am not willing to give him up and I have had good advice about that.

 

There are many things in this that I say where I could end up eating my words. Me saying he will not go NC is not one of them. If DDay comes, which I hope it never does, then things will change obviously but I have no concerns whatsoever with the NC part.

 

You don't have to tell other guys you have feelings for someone else..just say you only want casual dating. They'll be okay with that. The guy who agrees to casual dating isn't going to want anything serious.

 

I was thinking if you got to the point of having really great sex with another guy. ...it would go a long way to detach from the MM.

 

So from what you're saying in this post ...If his wife says NC or divorce (if there was a dday)....his options are get divorced or tell her he'll go NC and carry on lying....is that a fair summary?