In a rut 😔

[Robert]

This thread has been reviewed and cleaned up for the thread jacking and rude posts. From here on out, Moderation expects that the members will remain on topic and stop taking pot shots at each other.

 

Please continue posting.

 

Thank you,

 

~ V

Edited February 10, 2016 by Robert
Moderation statement ~ V

[lftbehind]

The rut she is in is self-induced? Really?

 

How is being independent stricken as false simply because she is in an AR? In your estimation does M make a woman independent? IME a woman's independence has nothing to do with her R status.

 

And a mature woman dates whoever she wants to date regardless if she's in a R or not. Maturity has nothing to do with playing the field or exercising your options. Some immature people try to play, that's for sure, but don't play well. I think PH is typing her thoughts to get clarity; hence the rut, but she's being challenged instead on her morals and maturity which have nothing to do with whom she chooses to date.

 

Communicating your needs to your MM does not mean you are being passive-aggressive PickledHead, but using that to goad him would be but I think you already know the difference. MM and I split up for a while after a Dday and I dated someone else. Once MM came back I didn't tell him for a long time because I thought it would hurt him. Then came the day that he wanted to try working on his M again, something he regrets now but had to try one last time, so I snapped and said great, then I'll go ahead and find another boyfriend like I did the last time we split up. Boy was he surprised! And hurt. And torn. I didn't mean to hurt him but it came out with my shock at his announcement. And he needed to know that there are consequences, natural reactions, to unexpected decisions. He really didn't want me dating others but he had no choice if he wanted to work on his M. I don't want to t/j so I'll stop my story there but in the end my MM is glad to know the truth. It took a couple years but we got beyond it.

 

You have to do what's right for you, and if daring others helps you figure things out then by all means do it. You can tell him now or later, but being true to yourself is the only real option.

 

A woman can't be independent in a A very easily, because the MM mostly controls the A as far as when he can see and communicate with her. She has to accommodate him. He shouldn't mind if she dates, since he won't leave his wife.

Edited February 11, 2016 by lftbehind

[sandylee1]

SandyLee I am happy... Right now!! but I don't want to be someone who wakes up years down the line and wonders what on earth I was doing. I don't want to give him up but I do want to move on at some point as, quite rightly pointed out, this is a dead end.

 

That's why it's a rut and that is why my head is pickled.

 

I think you're right to have those thoughts of waking up one day and realising you've wasted the best years of your life in an affair. Your denying yourself of the things that would normally be second nature...like holidays or walking down the road with your partner and feeling free to kiss or hold hands.

 

The longer you leave it ..as you get older ....The harder it will be to find someone else. You've kind of got age on your side at the moment...that won't always be the case.

 

I find your situation similar to dating a single guy that's no good for you....except ONLY YOU will know when you can't take it anymore.

 

Years back I had a friend dating this useless guy who was just using her. She could not or would not see what was going on.

 

In the end I got fed up of saying anything...then he abandoned her on a weekend trip and just ignored her calls . Then she filed a missing persons report and of course the police found him....they told her he was safe and sound.

 

After putting up with his nonsense..HE dumped HER and she felt so much worse about it. Saying she should have dumped him long ago and imagine the cheek of him.

 

I saw this quote recently......hope you don't mind me sharing..

 

"Never ask a man for the things you know you deserve. The right man will give you those things and much more"

[SweetiePi]

Hi Pickle.

 

 

I just wanted to say that I feel from your posts you are being sincere and genuine with your feeling of your MM. I am in a similar situation in the way we both feel about our MM. We have a wonderful connection on the friendship level and talk about and share ideas about everything. My A is only an EA though. I love him deeply, but there will be nothing further till each of us makes some decisions.

 

 

If you are content in what you have with him, then let it be what it is and enjoy it. I would challenge you though to explore with him if he would ever leave his marriage.

 

 

Happy yes, wouldn't go as far as complacent!

 

The title is because I do feel in a rut. The last line of my opening post summed it up

 

I Won't give up MM yet and can't seem to move on whilst he is on scene! Therefore I feel like I'm in a rut

 

I don't mean to be defensive - I can't express enough how grateful I am for the replies I have had!! If I had wanted to get advice on the A itself I would have come on and gone into a lot more detail. I didn't and therefore i feel like I'm getting told how to proceed with somethjng I haven't really touched on.

 

So apologies if it seems that way - it's not intended

[Gigi2015]

Sweetiepi :

 

I think the OP is genuine in her feelings towards MM. However, She is conflicted about accepting the terms of the relationship. The name of the thread being, "In a rut." Feeling as if you're in a rut generally means you feel stuck and want change.

[PickledHead]

A woman can't be independent in a A very easily, because the MM mostly controls the A as far as when he can see and communicate with her. She has to accommodate him. He shouldn't mind if she dates, since he won't leave his wife.

 

I have a lot of control in it but when I said I was independent I meant more on a higher level as in I don't rely on anyone for things in my life (money, my child, my bills ect)

 

He does mind if I date, he just wouldn't tell me so exactly for the reason of hypocrisy.

 

SweetiePi - there isn't anything to explore. It really isn't an option. It does make me a bit sad at times but I have never had any other expectation and so tend to not let it bother me.

 

SandyLee - I actually do hate that we can't holiday. All other parts we tend to do.

 

Gigi - I'm not conflicted in accepting the terms. I fully accept them! You are right though, I do feel stuck. So frustrating to be stuck in something I am happy being in. Just know from here how this ends for me! And I feel that would be me finally doing the right thing when I have let my life pass me by. Yes I would have been happy to that point but I can imagine that would be a pretty dark place to find myself

[rainbowsandkittens]

I have a lot of control in it but when I said I was independent I meant more on a higher level as in I don't rely on anyone for things in my life (money, my child, my bills ect)

 

He does mind if I date, he just wouldn't tell me so exactly for the reason of hypocrisy.

 

SweetiePi - there isn't anything to explore. It really isn't an option. It does make me a bit sad at times but I have never had any other expectation and so tend to not let it bother me.

 

SandyLee - I actually do hate that we can't holiday. All other parts we tend to do.

 

Gigi - I'm not conflicted in accepting the terms. I fully accept them! You are right though, I do feel stuck. So frustrating to be stuck in something I am happy being in. Just know from here how this ends for me! And I feel that would be me finally doing the right thing when I have let my life pass me by. Yes I would have been happy to that point but I can imagine that would be a pretty dark place to find myself

 

But the reality is that if you're feeling stuck- you're not that happy. Maybe you're a majority happy. Maybe he's filling your needs now. But if you're already thinking about the end and how it will effect you, how you will feel, what you'll potentially miss out on- then you're not 100% happy. It means there is doubt rolling around in there. There's something that you know you'll want that you can't have with him (you did say in your OP that you are starting to feel like you want a real relationship.) It may just be a twinge right now. Like that first sharp pain before the cavity really starts to form, kwim? The reality is that it might never turn into a cavity. But it also depends on how much sugar you eat and how you take care of it.

[PickledHead]

Yeah that's about right.

 

I'm feeling stuck though because I will struggle to move on and I don't even want to move on but know I will come to a point I have to.

 

I'm still not ready for a real relationship, with him or without him but I can feel some pangs that inhavent had since becoming single so I know it's coming

[BuddyX]

PH are you afraid of being all alone? Trust it's awesome and therapeutic.

"In silence you'll find strength"

[PickledHead]

I'm not afraid of being alone at this stage of my life but the thought of being alone later in life is a daunting prospect

[Gigi2015]

I have a lot of control in it but when I said I was independent I meant more on a higher level as in I don't rely on anyone for things in my life (money, my child, my bills ect)

 

He does mind if I date, he just wouldn't tell me so exactly for the reason of hypocrisy.

 

SweetiePi - there isn't anything to explore. It really isn't an option. It does make me a bit sad at times but I have never had any other expectation and so tend to not let it bother me.

 

SandyLee - I actually do hate that we can't holiday. All other parts we tend to do.

 

Gigi - I'm not conflicted in accepting the terms. I fully accept them! You are right though, I do feel stuck. So frustrating to be stuck in something I am happy being in. Just know from here how this ends for me! And I feel that would be me finally doing the right thing when I have let my life pass me by. Yes I would have been happy to that point but I can imagine that would be a pretty dark place to find myself

 

[]You are happy but concerned in the future you may not be. If you're so happy now....and it suits you so well why might it not be ok in the future?

Edited February 11, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[Clockwatching]

Hi Pickled,

 

I've managed to read through, well, most of the thread! I have to say reading some of your replies was a little like looking in the mirror for me a little, not in a bad way, but just interesting to see.

 

I suppose because we have a similar way of dealing with things - I have been hurt in the past and have been afraid of intimacy, and when I had my affair, it did tick those boxes - great connection, great intimacy, a great connection which grew into love, with no demands made on either side. Initially, it's a great contract for those who are afraid of having a real relationship.

 

He was similar, no future faking, said that he would probably never leave his wife and children, I was fully aware of the situation and made no demands on him, really, because at my core the fear of a real relationship was probably one of the major drivers for the affair aside from our connection and true friendship (who knows which was stronger). The contrasting fear and yearning for intimacy is a great recipe for affairs when you find someone you connect with and fall in love with.

 

The reason I ended it (I went NC, which was very difficult as we had a great friendship and I could foresee myself staying friends with him for years) was because our circumstances changed. We had far less quality time, before he was in my life on an almost daily basis and then it turned into daily contact wherever possible and meeting once a month.

 

Whilst I could see him every day and he was a part of my life in a real way, it felt very much like a real relationship, and really, it didn't effect my self value as I saw daily how much he cared, and could see that he was falling for me too.

 

When that contact couldn't happen any more, I saw how little of me he was willing to settle for, and how little he could give. I may have had a huge fear of intimacy but I wasn't prepared for my self value to drop as a result, and it wasn't something I was prepared to sacrifice.

 

At it's core, you have quite the dichotomy - it fulfils your needs because you have less than the average bear as ultimately, you're independent, live your own life but like every person want to be loved, and in the future, to not be abandoned by someone that you love so much or be stuck in a situation that ultimately can't give you much and can't evolve or grow with you as there's just not any room for manouvre when someone is married to someone else, it is ultimately restricted.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is that for now, you may be alright and able to do this, but ultimately you may have to make a choice between your emotional freedom and evolution as a person and as a woman, or to live with this restriction under the bounds of this 'contract' that you agreed to that gives no room for change.

 

I feel that there is substance behind what posters have said about your not having your needs met and of a general feeling of fear and sadness in your words.

 

My feeling is that you've restricted your needs and desires probably to get along, avoid conflict and remain as self contained, and independent emotionally as possible in order to avoid being hurt and confront your fear of intimacy.

 

This is a method of self protection but it's worth noting that this in itself puts you in a vulnerable position with potential partners as they won't hide their needs and wants, and when they don't you will feel bulldozed because you don't put yourself out there or treat yourself as important and their needs will ultimately overwhelm yours.

 

You instead manipulate and repress yourself and create distance (emotionally or physically, or a combination of both) in accordance to your circumstances in order to cope, which I think is where is a sense of sadness in your writing and probably why some have tried to jostle you to react emotionally on this thread so that you acknowledge your fears and your dreams.

 

I hope, whatever outcome does happen for you that you do try to open your heart, not to or for anyone else, but to yourself - I hope that you rediscover that connection and find your own path, with whoever has the priviledge to walk it with you. Just make sure that it's a priviledge for both them and for you.

 

At it's source you are the only person that you need to consider - his path is his own as are his choices, but whilst you're jousting with both his emotions and your own and trying to find that sweet middle ground you'll always experience some kind of turmoil and anxiety simply because it's a very thin line to tread, and should you grow or change in one way or another the circumstances will have to change to accommodate it, and affairs aren't set up for that without a great deal of sacrifice on either side. Emotions change, people change - this is the nature of life, we are meant to experience and grow from those experiences. Expecting to go on in an affair on it's original terms like that is 'fair' is denying your essence as a human being.

 

You sound like an intelligent, open minded individual and I suspect that you can be enriched by this experience even though it has it's own element of risk. That will only happen when you are ready for it, and no one can predict when that will happen or how, or who will still be around when that happens. I do wish you the best of luck and I really hope that you learn to trust yourself and break down that wall, and move forward with renewed hope and joy in your life, and faith in your dreams.

 

Sorry, I do get quite soppy when something moves me! lol Hope it's helped somewhat xx

[PickledHead]

When have I said zero pain! The fact I feel frustrated at times, the fact I worry about hurting him, the fact I'm here should show that it's not zero pain!! Just because He makes me happy and I am happy with the way this relationship (playing second fiddle) currently works does not mean there is never a downside. I could pop over to the dating section, or the marriage section and find handfuls of people with problems even though they are happy!! I have never been in, nor known anyone to be in, any kind of relationship where there is never or has never been any amount of pain for one reason or another!!

 

I said on my last post that i know in the future I am going to want a real relationship so that's why i don't think it will be ok in the future

[PickledHead]

Hi clock watching

 

Thanks for that / it was a really interesting read. I feel that, like you, should the contact I have dwindle I would be gone. Currently I have more contact with him then I would have should I be in a standard relationship so it's a big plus - if that went it would affect the A massively!

 

I don't know whether it's a actual fear of intimacy i have - it's just not my thing. Iv always been like it, even as a child. Through all my relationships (including my marriage) it's just not something I do. Also I have hurt people I love in past relationships (no big dramas) and I HATE it and came to the conclusion that whilst I am ok loving someone, I'd rather no one love me - then I can't hurt them. Maybe that's part of how I ended up in an A who knows? However I have grown up since then and view things differently now X

[William]

I'll bump up this posting so there's no ambiguity why member posting privileges are removed. When one of our moderators places a steering statement or directive, we follow up on that and, generally, violations may result in cessation of privileges for various lengths of time.

 

This thread has been reviewed and cleaned up for the thread jacking and rude posts. From here on out, Moderation expects that the members will remain on topic and stop taking pot shots at each other.

 

Please continue posting.

 

Thank you,

 

~ V

[Clockwatching]

Hi clock watching

 

Thanks for that / it was a really interesting read. I feel that, like you, should the contact I have dwindle I would be gone. Currently I have more contact with him then I would have should I be in a standard relationship so it's a big plus - if that went it would affect the A massively!

 

I don't know whether it's a actual fear of intimacy i have - it's just not my thing. Iv always been like it, even as a child. Through all my relationships (including my marriage) it's just not something I do. Also I have hurt people I love in past relationships (no big dramas) and I HATE it and came to the conclusion that whilst I am ok loving someone, I'd rather no one love me - then I can't hurt them. Maybe that's part of how I ended up in an A who knows? However I have grown up since then and view things differently now X

 

Hey Pickle,

 

I understand why it's so hard to let go when they're a part of your daily life, and to be honest, you just don't sound like you're at a stage where you want that right now.

 

I do get where you're coming from, it was never my thing either! I was very withdrawn and independent as a child due to circumstances and that's how I continued into adulthood, it can be a coping mechanism depending on the person obviously. Sometimes when you've grown up with something it doesn't feel like a 'fear' as in, a quaking fear - it's a habit, a method of communication, it's in your body language, the way you relate, the things you choose - so saying 'fear' is a bit misleading I suppose. But, it's something to reflect on.

 

In my affair, I found it easier to open but I think that was a combination of the connection that I had with him and also the fact that it wasn't emotionally risky to me in terms of having to offer commitment and such.

 

For me, coming out of it there are realisations on the way - through my own self examination and through feedback from friends, and a new perspective I've realised well, a lot. I don't communicate and share like other people, now don't get me wrong I'm very much a people person and I do share and I'm not cut off - I have a good social life and friends and a good network but I am selective and emotionally rational and measured and I don't habitually communicate my needs, desires and dreams and this is the true person inside that I've kept hidden and maleable to circumstance as appropriate. I've realised that this has affected my choices and my relationships - some good, some bad and some neutral but it's spurred me to want to change things.

 

I suppose, what I'm saying is that there are perspectives on what you're going through that you may not see right now, but that's ok because that's life, that's human and that's the point.

 

I'm sure some of what I've said you may be able to relate to, some will be irrelevant and you will also make completely different discoveries, but from what you've written you seem to be a deep thinking person but also one who wants to be free.

 

It sound hugely cliched to say that freedom is within but I know that you know this as it is after all how you operate so I know that's active within you! The restrictions of affairs that I mentioned and the impact on the navigation of this emotionally is why no one can give you much of a direction on a way to make this work, because whichever way you look at it the situation doesn't lead to freedom emotionally, physically or spiritually - so in the meantime the only choice you really have is to tread the line, make a few tweaks and hope that he can alter his course emotionally to compensate (ie, with dating others etc). If this isn't possible, you're at a stalemate where the situation can either be accepted or not.

 

Ultimately it'll probably come down to how you feel, pretty much that's what makes us change anything - you can have all the money you want, all the friends that you want, the career that you want, but if you feel like sh$t, you're exhausted and feel like it all means nothing somethings got to be changed because we want a life with meaning and good feelings.

 

Do you want a love you can invest in, grow in and expand your experiences with, or something that is great for now but has no future potential and restrictions? Only when you get to the end of your tether with either one of those scenarios will you really be able to answer that question and be able to make a change but you may be a few paces off of that right now.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to be true to yourself. xx

[LivingWaterPlease]

And I feel that would be me finally doing the right thing when I have let my life pass me by. Yes I would have been happy to that point but I can imagine that would be a pretty dark place to find myself

 

PickledHead, there is nothing quite as satisfying as living life knowing you're doing the right things, especially when there are delectable alternatives available.

 

When you know you could take money that isn't yours and no one would ever know, but choose not to, the simplest necessities of life become sweeter.

 

When you know you could hurt someone who hurt you badly and choose not to, you experience a peace that transcends revenge.

 

When you know you could enjoy someone else's spouse intimately and choose not to, you walk in freedom and love.

 

Why waste your life tangled up in chains of selfishness? When you are old and look back on this time of your life do you want it to be shrouded in deceit you can never scrub away? Why not limit the amount of time that's affected by it?

[Poppy47]

I'm not afraid of being alone at this stage of my life but the thought of being alone later in life is a daunting prospect

 

I am 69 this year Pickle.

 

Please do give your very long term future some serious thought.

 

Unfortunate circumstances have taken my family from me and apart from my only child , her son and husband, I have no other family. There is nothing at all I can do about that. I just wish is weren't so.

 

Recently I had a surgery and it was very difficult for the family to be with me as they live a long way from me. It gave me a wake up call.

 

On the other hand, I am independent, financially secure and happy alone while things are going well.

 

For me there is no question of a live in relationship again. It wouldn't work for me as I have been alone for 8 years.

 

You are much younger and have time to find a new relationship.

 

Poppy.

[SweetiePi]

I guess that is where our situations differ. There is a possibility of both of us with a future together years down the road in the open should each of us explore leaving our relationships. Don't know if it will happen, but I'd never push this as I respect him and it is something we both need to resolve on our own.

 

 

I wish you well and hope you are able to enjoy each other's friendship as it sounds like you and him have a good bond. It must be very hard to have that connection and yet have the resolve that he will never be able to offer you a future down the road.

 

 

 

SweetiePi - there isn't anything to explore. It really isn't an option. It does make me a bit sad at times but I have never had any other expectation and so tend to not let it bother me.

 

[sandylee1]

I am 69 this year Pickle.

 

Please do give your very long term future some serious thought.

 

Unfortunate circumstances have taken my family from me and apart from my only child , her son and husband, I have no other family. There is nothing at all I can do about that. I just wish is weren't so.

 

Recently I had a surgery and it was very difficult for the family to be with me as they live a long way from me. It gave me a wake up call.

 

On the other hand, I am independent, financially secure and happy alone while things are going well.

 

For me there is no question of a live in relationship again. It wouldn't work for me as I have been alone for 8 years.

 

You are much younger and have time to find a new relationship.

 

Poppy.

 

This is a really good point from Poppy. It brought another memory up for me.

 

One of the very sad things about affairs is the ability to be there for each other in times of sickness /hospitalization. You have all this love for someone..yet when their ill ...you can't be there to nurse or look after them.

 

Not to be morbid..but one BH I support said how difficult it was when his OW passed away (breast cancer) he had to grieve in silence and it was extremely difficult and gut wrenching for him. He couldn't tell anyone about it....he couldn't go to the funeral and he was on the verge of a breakdown.

 

It's something he never thought about going into the A .... and it's the reason he says he'll never have another A.

 

It's ok for the here and now..as you have said..but you'll loose out on the companionship he has in later life with his wife and possibly grandchildren. The scales are tipped in his favour every which way you look at it.

[Hip Pocket]

A woman can't be independent in a A very easily, because the MM mostly controls the A as far as when he can see and communicate with her. She has to accommodate him. He shouldn't mind if she dates, since he won't leave his wife.

 

That would depend on the MM and the OW. My MM sees me when I'm free and according to my schedule so I don't feel that I am dependent on anything. He accommodates me and if I'm available I accommodate him. It's a give and take just as in any M.

 

No, he shouldn't mind but feelings are what they are so "shoulds" don't often take hold.