Can I ask what you loveshackers think?

[weeble78]

We are married. For 3 years. Together for 3 years prior.

 

 

It's been a difficult few months - my mum has been diagnosed with cancer and for 2 months it looked like she wasn't going to be treated.

 

 

We have a 1 year old daughter. I started back at work a few months ago working 4 long days to make up full-time.

 

 

H has always said I can sometimes criticise him. Says I sometimes make him feel unappreciated and that I don't love him for who he is, that he misses sex and intimacy (we sleep separately now due to snoring issues which he refuses to try to do anything about). He says he feels nothing he does is good enough.

 

 

I don't deny that I can be hard on people sometimes, as I'm used to being hard on myself expecting things to be perfect. I have a problem with his temper, particularly in front of our daughter. There is a lot of shouting from him and namecalling in front of her. He also doesn't pitch in as much as I'd like.

 

 

So 2 weeks ago I became suspicious something was going on on whatsapp. I confronted him and bluffed that I knew he was messaging this girl from work. He lied at first then admitted it but blamed me and refused to let me read the messages. He then deleted them all.

 

 

Apparently this girl had shown him attention and talked about sex, which he felt he was missing, so he went ahead and messaged her several times. He also confided in her about our relationship and said he'd got to the point where he didn't care about cheating on me any more.

 

 

So that's the backstory. Basically I'm devastated mostly for my baby and our family and am trying to decide whether there's any chance of reconciling (he's said sorry but refuses to let me try and retrieve the messages).

 

 

I would be so grateful for some sensible input here please.

 

 

I have already been to see a solicitor, sorted out the finances and made sure myself and my daughter will be secure.

 

 

Thank you

[Satu]

The cheaters mantra:

 

"I needed xyz, and you weren't giving that to me."

 

BS.

 

He cheated because he wanted to.

 

He chose to have an emotional affair.

 

If you think its worth it, address your issues in couple's counselling.

 

If not, make a life for you and your child that doesn't include a man that shouts, tells lies, and doesn't care about cheating on you.

 

 

Take care.

[weeble78]

Thank you.

 

 

So basically there is no excuse ever for cheating.

 

 

Even though I may have treated him badly prior, the cheating itself shows he doesn't really love or respect me anyway?

 

 

I ask because I feel that I'm going to feel guilty for the rest of my life for not being a good enough spouse to have kept my husband in love with me and happy for the rest of our marriage. Guilty for being part of the reason my baby doesn't have her daddy around.

 

 

can you tell I'm emotionally all over the place at the moment?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree...no one here can tell you whether or not this relationship is worth saving....but i can tell you...that it will be a long ride.

 

and you cannot do it by yourself.

 

So you are going to have to determine if HE evens wants to fix things. The first step is admission....the second is transparency.

 

If he is not willing to give you passwords and e mails....that's the first red flag. He is hiding something.

 

Don't threaten that you will leave if he doesn't comply....let him know you have already been to a lawyer. He will know you mean business.

 

I have hope for you.....you seem like a go getter....best of luck

[weeble78]

Thank you Mrs Adams. Do you know, your comment that I seem like a go getter has put a smile on my face for the first time today, and I hope whatever happens that when my daughter's older and understands what happens, that she'll think the same about me.

 

 

I don't have a lot of hope as he is unwilling to go to the ends of the earth to retrieve the messages. I can ask him if he'll do a polygraph.

 

 

I am trying to give him every opportunity as I don't think he looked any further forward than himself - he doesn't look at our daughter and see how her future has changed forever.

 

 

I don't know if I could R myself, given that every second he is away from me I think he could be emailing her or whatever.

 

 

I do know that we don't have to make a decision straightaway, that I can talk to other people and try and calm my mind to come to a sensible decision.

 

 

Thanks everyone for taking the time with me here, and kudos to everyone else who has been through this or is going through it. This is freaking tough.

[Satu]

You have three choices:

 

 

1. Agree to work together and try to solve your issues in therapy.

 

2. Carry on as you are.

 

3. Part company and build new lives for yourselves.

 

 

I think 1 and 3 are much better than 2.

 

 

And no, there is no excuse for cheating. Its something people do just because they want to do it.

 

 

Having said that, forgiveness is possible in some cases.

 

 

Take care.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Satu

[Mrs. John Adams]

Weeble

 

My first clue about you....you are searching. That means you are a woman who can take charge if she has to. You are a fighter....you are willing to TRY to do the right thing.

 

Your daughter....will always know...that your first thought was for her and about her. Do not fear that she will think less of you....

 

Reconciliation is hard....even when all the stars align the right way. But it is possible.....it depends on how badly the both of you want it.

 

Get yourself into therapy...work on you....you want to be the best you can be.

 

You got this...I can feel it in my bones. Keep searching....decipher the information that applies to you....and ignore the rest.

[BetrayedH]

There is no excuse for cheating.

 

If there were marital problems (is there a marriage without them?), he had two options that were logical, ethical, respectful, healthy, and moral. He could: (1) Fix the marriage or (2) leave it.

 

An affair isn't a logical choice. It doesn't fix the marriage at all. It's also not an ethical choice to keep you married and faithful while he plays single. Nor is it respectful to lie and deceive his partner for all things in life. It's not healthy as it brings destruction to the marriage and family. And I'd bet he says that being an adulterer goes against his own beliefs, which makes it immoral for him.

 

Interestingly enough, if the poor marriage was the cause of his cheating, it's curious that you were in the same poor marriage but didn't cheat.

 

The reality is that this is all about HIM. He had logical, ethical, respectful, healthy, and moral choices available to him. But instead, he chose door number 3. Why would he make such a disastrous choice? Because something is broken within him. In my experience, such people have either an excessive need for external validation, are severely conflict-avoidant, or have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. And those things likely developed during childhood via his family of origin. Notice that none of that has anything to do with you.

 

The reality is that you didn't get a vote in this situation. In fact, he went to great lengths to make sure you were kept in the dark and unable to make informed choices about how to move forward with your life.

 

That's on him. It's not on you. Don't let him blame you. And don't blame yourself. He had choices. You were denied choices.

 

I would write more but I have to run. At minimum, I wanted to express that you should not allow any of this to be blameshifted onto you. Period. He owns his crap behavior and decisions.

[dichotomy]

There is a number of things going wrong in your post - some from your side too, but the one that kind of sticks with me out of all that's happening - is the shouting and anger in front of your daughter. If that's a regular occurrence then its mandatory time for couples work ....or considering (just considering) if divorce would be a better option for your child's sake.

 

An emotional affair, or other issues, just seem to pale if there is an unhealthy home for your child.

 

 

 

 

P.S.

 

If he is snoring that bad - he could have apena and sleep issues and that can cause all sorts of issues form emotional and physical distress to early death.

[Liam1]

We are married. For 3 years. Together for 3 years prior.

 

H has always said I can sometimes criticise him. Says I sometimes make him feel unappreciated and that I don't love him for who he is, that he misses sex and intimacy (we sleep separately now due to snoring issues which he refuses to try to do anything about). He says he feels nothing he does is good enough.

 

 

I don't deny that I can be hard on people sometimes, as I'm used to being hard on myself expecting things to be perfect. I have a problem with his temper, particularly in front of our daughter. There is a lot of shouting from him and namecalling in front of her. He also doesn't pitch in as much as I'd like.

 

 

So 2 weeks ago I became suspicious something was going on on whatsapp. I confronted him and bluffed that I knew he was messaging this girl from work. He lied at first then admitted it but blamed me and refused to let me read the messages. He then deleted them all.

 

 

Apparently this girl had shown him attention and talked about sex, which he felt he was missing, so he went ahead and messaged her several times. He also confided in her about our relationship and said he'd got to the point where he didn't care about cheating on me any more.

 

 

So that's the backstory. Basically I'm devastated mostly for my baby and our family and am trying to decide whether there's any chance of reconciling (he's said sorry but refuses to let me try and retrieve the messages).

 

 

I would be so grateful for some sensible input here please.

 

 

I have already been to see a solicitor, sorted out the finances and made sure myself and my daughter will be secure.

 

 

Thank you

 

Weeble:

 

I am glad you saw an attorney. Now you have the facts, if you need to divorce, and you are working from a position of knowledge and strength.

 

With that said, I am an ex cheating husband.

 

I regret it.

 

I did not blame my wife, but I am older than your husband and a tad wiser, not much 'cause I cheated, too, but some.

 

IMO, a younger man might be grasping at straws. Hence blame shifting seems logical.

 

It is wrong, but desperate people do desperate things. He may say other nonsensical things, too, or rewrite your marital history. It is his way of coping with his own self-loathing, perhaps.

 

Get yourselves to an experienced infidelity counselor for about six sessions at least.

 

If you both want to save your marriage, you will. It is not easy, but it can be done.

[RecentChange]

I know cheaters are pretty universally villifed here in LS.

 

I have been a cheater. So has my partner.

 

Truth is, there are reasons beyond "horrible person" that cause people to cheat.

 

Yes, not the best choice, but often its out of desperation, unhappiness, longing.... Natural human emotions that are difficult to grapple with.

 

It's easy to say "just leave, don't cheat!" But life is more complicated than that, and not so black and white.

 

Now... My advice? First, you two have to decide if you still love each other, and are in love with each other, and BOTH are willing to take responsibility for your own actions and fix things.

 

It's a hard road. Cheating is an escape, and avoidance of the hard work, and a chance to "run away" - facing harsh realities is harder.

 

He has to own up to his wrong doings, recognize the pain he has caused you, and own up to his actions.

 

You can't be demanding perfection, we need to be our spouses cheer leaders, not tear them down.

 

Can you have a real sit down conversation, that isn't about blame, but love? About what each of you want, and if you are willing to work to achieve that?

[weeble78]

Thanks for each and every one of your messages, I really appreciate the time you're taking to listen and give advice.

 

 

I understand he made the choice to cheat, and in a marriage,it isn’t a viable choice. I can see that it is all about him, his reactions since have tended to be still about him. BetrayedH I like your explanation whyit is something within him, the reasons why he may have made such achoice. That’s given me a new perspective on things. He did have a disastrous childhood, and relationships haven’t been easy for him. No I didn’t cheat, I have never looked at somebody else since meeting him. I always felt like he made my life better, regardless of our issues. I felt like he made me a better person andthe person I was always meant to be. This is why he is important to me. I am sad though, that he seems to never have felt that way about me,that I made his life miserable.

 

 

The shouting and anger are something which have definitely toned down of late but something we were going to address with counselling. I said the aggression must be a priority with our little girl. He has attended anger management before and it was useful. He does, however, blame the shouting on frustration from some of the things I say to him or the way I talk to him.

 

 

I believe the marriage rewriting is to absolve himself of guilt and to make him seem like not such a bad person. There are a million ways he could have gone about it but never to bring another person into our marriage. He knows that’s a sore point with me as I was cheated on in my last relationship.

 

 

Thank you for the counselling advice. For our daughter’s sake, and also for the fact we’ve always been happy and managed to get over issues, I am tempted to go to a counselling session and see what happens. If I never went I’d never know. Although tonight we’ve been texting while he’s working late and I’m not sure. I texted him to ask if he was giving a final no to me trying to get the messaging retrieved and basically hefinally admitted he’d downloaded a file manager and wiped everything from the phone. He knew that if I could see the messages and it was just inappropriate chat then I might be able to reconcile going to counselling and working through it.

 

 

He’s said if I can’t take his word for what happened then fine, he’s not being held to ransom for the rest of his life for something he can’t change. If I want to try and workit out he’ll give it a go otherwise he’s found a flat. I congratulated on him throwing away his family and he replied that I don’t love him. He seems obsessed with thinking I don’t love him and regularly keeps bringing it up, which I find strange. I’ve never once in my life said that. Then he suggested we have a 3 month trial of trying to rebuild our marriage. I said without seeing the messages I can’t just trust what he’s told me so our marriage is over.

 

 

Then he lost his temper and said I’d use it to score points anyway and it would be a **** marriage, that he wants someone normal and loving and that’s not me.

 

 

So that’s the jist of it so far. Sorry it’s so long and complicated, I’m not particularly good at condensing when I’m emotional.

 

 

So now I’m left with a choice of perhaps going for a counselling session, or sticking to my guns about the messages and letting him leave, perhaps finishing our marriage permanently. This is pretty scary. I feel way out of my depth.

Edited February 11, 2016 by weeble78

[Satu]

I know cheaters are pretty universally villifed here in LS.

 

I have been a cheater. So has my partner.

 

I don't think cheaters are horrible people.

 

They are just people who made a particular choice.

 

They should take responsibility for that choice, just as we all should for whatever choices we make.

 

We all live under the same sky.

[sandylee1]

Thank you.

 

 

So basically there is no excuse ever for cheating.

 

 

Even though I may have treated him badly prior, the cheating itself shows he doesn't really love or respect me anyway?

 

 

I ask because I feel that I'm going to feel guilty for the rest of my life for not being a good enough spouse to have kept my husband in love with me and happy for the rest of our marriage. Guilty for being part of the reason my baby doesn't have her daddy around.

 

 

can you tell I'm emotionally all over the place at the moment?

 

Sometimes problems in a relationship can be a factor in infidelity...however your situation need not have been one. Even with the snoring. You could get together to have sex then sleep seperately. So really it's not the sleeping apart that did this.

 

You can work on your issues of being too hard ...but I don't seeing as though your H resorts to name calling in front of your daughter..He's no angel.

 

Is he apologetic or remorseful? If he isn't you should detach and take it from there. You need honesty....I'm sure he has very explicit messages with her or he's badmouthed you hence he does not want you to see the messages.

 

Decide what you can and can't tolerate. Don't put up with his nonsensical behaviour.

[weeble78]

So he's said he'll go to counselling but when I asked if he'd do a polygraph he started calling me a psycho and said I'm not normal, and he's going to sign for the flat tomorrow if I don't agree to counselling and a 3 month trial.

 

 

Wow.

 

 

He is so difficult to deal with.

 

 

I think I've tried my hardest remaining calm and trying to communicate honestly.

 

 

I don't think he can value me much at all if he's reacting like this.

 

 

He is apologetic but gets annoyed if I keep talking about it and gets angry. He hasn't really asked to hear it from my point of view or asked about me at all. All talk has been about him so far.

[merrmeade]

So he's said he'll go to counselling but when I asked if he'd do a polygraph he started calling me a psycho and said I'm not normal, and he's going to sign for the flat tomorrow if I don't agree to counselling and a 3 month trial.

 

Wow.

 

He is so difficult to deal with.

 

I think I've tried my hardest remaining calm and trying to communicate honestly.

 

I don't think he can value me much at all if he's reacting like this.

 

He is apologetic but gets annoyed if I keep talking about it and gets angry. He hasn't really asked to hear it from my point of view or asked about me at all. All talk has been about him so far.

He gives the same response to showing the messages as to taking the polygraph. Shouting, anger, aggression, name-calling. It's intimidation and puts you on the defensive. He gets the upper hand means enough to derail the interrogation long enough to erase traces of the deleted messages. Why would he need to do all this, weeble? His actions and words have told you everything.

 

If you hesitate, you lend credence and dignity to his denial, and he can keep lying.

[BetrayedH]

He gives the same response to showing the messages as to taking the polygraph. Shouting, anger, aggression, name-calling. It's intimidation and puts you on the defensive. He gets the upper hand means enough to derail the interrogation long enough to erase traces of the deleted messages. Why would he need to do all this, weeble? His actions and words have told you everything.

 

If you hesitate, you lend credence and dignity to his denial, and he can keep lying.

 

Yep, this is a classic technique to keep the focus on you, instead of it being on him where it belongs. "You don't love me. You're not normal. You'll hold this over my head forever. You don't trust me. You're ruining the marriage." Blah, blah, freakin' blah.

 

This is a manipulation tactic. It's part blameshifting and part gaslighting (a good term to look up if you're not familiar).

 

Do not buy into this nonsense. It is designed to make you question yourself.

 

He's an unremorseful ass as far as I can tell. If this marriage falls apart, it sure as hell won't have been your fault.

 

He hid and deleted those messages for one reason: to cover his lies.

 

Find a better partner than this one. But if you want this relationship to have any hope, the last thing you should do is do it his way (because the relationship will never get repaired).

[weeble78]

Thank you loveshackers, whoever you are. I feel like you're helping make sense of a confusing scenario. So so sad I can't breathe, he must hate me so much he doesn't care. I came across old cards yesterday he sent me years ago, filled with more love than you could ever imagine. How can that be gone?

He was always the best thing to have walked into my life no matter what, he brought me back to life after being cheated on before, he was the proverbial sunshine in my footsteps. I just don't see how I can do this. My head says I can, my heart is crying no I don't want to

[MJJean]

As a lot of the regulars may remember, I was a cheating wife in my first marriage. I am not going to needlessly vilify your H.

 

That said, the man got a program and scrubbed his phone. Most people just delete. He scrubbed. I'm betting the affair was physical as well as emotional. You might want to consider an STD check, just in case.

 

No, he doesn't value you. Well, let me rephrase. He may value you, but he doesn't value you enough to remain faithful to you. He values himself and whatever he is getting from his OW more.

 

If he wanted sincerely to repair the damage he caused, he'd be showing signs of remorse. Apologies, offers to do whatever necessary, etc. He's not.

 

I know it hurts, but without him being willing to do whatever you need him to do in order to work on the marriage, I don't see reconciliation being viable unless you'd be willing to rug sweep this and turn a blind eye in the future.

 

I almost always advocate exposure of the affair and ending the relationship with a cheater who isn't showing extreme remorse. The reason is simple. I was a cheater and I have watched friends and family cheat or be cheated on over the years. In the cases where there were little to no consequences for the cheater, the cheater almost always kept cheating either with the same AP or new ones.

Edited February 12, 2016 by MJJean

[dreamingoftigers]

So he's said he'll go to counselling but when I asked if he'd do a polygraph he started calling me a psycho and said I'm not normal, and he's going to sign for the flat tomorrow if I don't agree to counselling and a 3 month trial.

 

 

Wow.

 

 

He is so difficult to deal with.

 

 

I think I've tried my hardest remaining calm and trying to communicate honestly.

 

 

I don't think he can value me much at all if he's reacting like this.

 

 

He is apologetic but gets annoyed if I keep talking about it and gets angry. He hasn't really asked to hear it from my point of view or asked about me at all. All talk has been about him so far.

 

Oh boy.

 

I'll be completely honest here.

 

He sounds like my husband's clobe when I caught him.

 

There isn't anything you've put up that my husband didn't do or say.

 

We battled in out for YEARS because he didn't seem to think that he needed to do anything for me to "just trust" him again. Any steps I suggested were "controlling or psycho" and were trying to be "his mother."

 

Get it? When called to account for any of his actions, he would impune my character. Constantly. Threaten to leave, tell me that I'm the problem over and over. Create really weak reasons, The Whole Enchilada.

 

If you really want this marriage, 180. Now. 180 and he will freak the F out. He'll be pissed right off. Act like everything is just fine that you are going away and then try to "nice" you back. Contact a Divorce Buster's coach of you want some really good supports. They get it, they are excellent.

 

Don't fall for any of it. Wait until he breaks. He won't smarten up until he takes at least one iota of responsibility. And he can't (because he's an idiot right now) until you aren't there trying to "work with him and reason with him."

 

He's the psycho right now. Make no mistake about that.

 

Don't negotiate with his demons or accept his excuses.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yep, this is a classic technique to keep the focus on you, instead of it being on him where it belongs. "You don't love me. You're not normal. You'll hold this over my head forever. You don't trust me. You're ruining the marriage." Blah, blah, freakin' blah.

 

This is a manipulation tactic. It's part blameshifting and part gaslighting (a good term to look up if you're not familiar).

 

Do not buy into this nonsense. It is designed to make you question yourself.

 

He's an unremorseful ass as far as I can tell. If this marriage falls apart, it sure as hell won't have been your fault.

 

He hid and deleted those messages for one reason: to cover his lies.

 

Find a better partner than this one. But if you want this relationship to have any hope, the last thing you should do is do it his way (because the relationship will never get repaired).

 

The Verbally Abusive Relationship helped me boil this sh*t down to quantifiable variables.

 

As soon as I was able to really get a handle on the mindfu*k, it lost all power over me.

 

Your posting reminds me a lot of myself in the earlier days. This whole thing is so traumatic, I truly empathize with you. I know you don't want to present as uncaring or cold to him. But every time you offer him an olive branch, he's going to beat you with it. It's part of how he handles conflict.

 

Until he sees tangible motion our the door and his tactics stop working, he won't do anything differently.

 

And trust me, he's protesting far too much to be as comfortable as he claims with losing the marriage.

 

It's pretty amazing how much they claim "you will crumble" and then five minutes before they do.

 

I swear the 180 was the only thing keeping me afloat.

 

Plus hiking. BTW, the male coach was the best at Divorce Busters.

 

My husband and I are still together, but frankly (I'm sure he would 110% agree) he needed his arse kicked, which you never think you need to do with a spouse. But he really actually kicked his own arse.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you loveshackers, whoever you are. I feel like you're helping make sense of a confusing scenario. So so sad I can't breathe, he must hate me so much he doesn't care. I came across old cards yesterday he sent me years ago, filled with more love than you could ever imagine. How can that be gone?

He was always the best thing to have walked into my life no matter what, he brought me back to life after being cheated on before, he was the proverbial sunshine in my footsteps. I just don't see how I can do this. My head says I can, my heart is crying no I don't want to

 

Yes. It takes the breath out of you.

 

I absolutely adored my husband. It was actually the most devastating things I've ever been through. You expect a lot of other things that are bad to happen in life. We don't generally expect our spouses to rip our hearts out and act like they weren't even godd enough as things to trample on.

[BetrayedH]

Your best bet in this situation is to take a tough stance. Dreamingoftigers mentioned "the 180." Be sure to look it up. I'll find a link for you if I have to.

 

You need to detach from this man. Primarily, that's for you. Is it tough? Hell yeah. Right now you're emotionally beaten down and probably want nothing other than to be held. And your H is supposed to be the one to do that. But it turns out that he's the source of your betrayal and feelings of rejection. It's an absolutely crappy position to be in.

 

But if you want to save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it. You must have a line that he doesn't cross or he loses you. He's already crossed one big line. And now he's looking to see if you enforce a healthy boundary for yourself or not. If you don't, he's certainly not going to do it for you. If you seem like you're going to bend to his demands, he's going to bend you. You are being tested. If he can push you and you just come running back to cling to him, he will never feel a need to come to you.

 

But if you show him that you are not kidding around, that you EXPECT complete transparency if he's to have even 5 minutes more of your time, if you allow the natural consequences of his action to come to bear, then you might start to see some real remorse from this guy.

 

Enable him to set the terms, and that's what he'll do. He knows you're hurting and vulnerable right now. And he's going to count on you needing him to an extent that you'll meet his demands or you'll lose him.

 

Look, I'm not here to bash cheaters. Some of them have found themselves making a horrible mistake and express true remorse for it, including a willingness to do whatever it takes to make up for it. And in those cases, I'm a huge cheerleader for forgiveness and reconciliation.

 

But that's not what you're dealing with here. You're being played. And I'm here to tell you how to play the game. Do not accept unacceptable treatment. Demand the respect that you deserve and you MIGHT just get it. And if you don't, it is his loss and and his alone to own.

[weeble78]

Oh boy.

 

I'll be completely honest here.

 

He sounds like my husband's clobe when I caught him.

 

There isn't anything you've put up that my husband didn't do or say.

 

We battled in out for YEARS because he didn't seem to think that he needed to do anything for me to "just trust" him again. Any steps I suggested were "controlling or psycho" and were trying to be "his mother."

 

Get it? When called to account for any of his actions, he would impune my character. Constantly. Threaten to leave, tell me that I'm the problem over and over. Create really weak reasons, The Whole Enchilada.

 

If you really want this marriage, 180. Now. 180 and he will freak the F out. He'll be pissed right off. Act like everything is just fine that you are going away and then try to "nice" you back. Contact a Divorce Buster's coach of you want some really good supports. They get it, they are excellent.

 

Don't fall for any of it. Wait until he breaks. He won't smarten up until he takes at least one iota of responsibility. And he can't (because he's an idiot right now) until you aren't there trying to "work with him and reason with him."

 

He's the psycho right now. Make no mistake about that.

 

Don't negotiate with his demons or accept his excuses.

 

 

Wow. You must be psychic! He has texted several times offering me the chance of counselling with him. He offered again tonight to my face and I offered a polygraph or checking his phone. He lost it and then went into the kitchen shouting and called me a c**t having a rant by himself. Saying I'm being unreasonable.

 

 

Honestly if it weren't for you all here pretty much predicting this I would be confused as hell and absolutely agree to it. I spoke to a work colleague/friend today and she said I should absolutely go to counselling and work through it. I firmly believe that I would endure months/years of crap if I did that. I still can't believe he's not begging me for forgiveness and am just blown away by his angry entitlement and calling me names, when he's in this position. But the way you explain it makes sense to me. SO thank you x Apparently with this flat he has got til tomorrow to make a decision. So tonight he's cooking dinner for me

[weeble78]

Your best bet in this situation is to take a tough stance. Dreamingoftigers mentioned "the 180." Be sure to look it up. I'll find a link for you if I have to.

 

You need to detach from this man. Primarily, that's for you. Is it tough? Hell yeah. Right now you're emotionally beaten down and probably want nothing other than to be held. And your H is supposed to be the one to do that. But it turns out that he's the source of your betrayal and feelings of rejection. It's an absolutely crappy position to be in.

 

But if you want to save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it. You must have a line that he doesn't cross or he loses you. He's already crossed one big line. And now he's looking to see if you enforce a healthy boundary for yourself or not. If you don't, he's certainly not going to do it for you. If you seem like you're going to bend to his demands, he's going to bend you. You are being tested. If he can push you and you just come running back to cling to him, he will never feel a need to come to you.

 

But if you show him that you are not kidding around, that you EXPECT complete transparency if he's to have even 5 minutes more of your time, if you allow the natural consequences of his action to come to bear, then you might start to see some real remorse from this guy.

 

Enable him to set the terms, and that's what he'll do. He knows you're hurting and vulnerable right now. And he's going to count on you needing him to an extent that you'll meet his demands or you'll lose him.

 

Look, I'm not here to bash cheaters. Some of them have found themselves making a horrible mistake and express true remorse for it, including a willingness to do whatever it takes to make up for it. And in those cases, I'm a huge cheerleader for forgiveness and reconciliation.

 

But that's not what you're dealing with here. You're being played. And I'm here to tell you how to play the game. Do not accept unacceptable treatment. Demand the respect that you deserve and you MIGHT just get it. And if you don't, it is his loss and and his alone to own.

 

 

Thank you. This is what I feel like I've always missed in relationships - respect. And it feels like this is a time I'll be able to gain some back finally - even if just from myself. It is definitely time I read the 180, and I will do that tonight.

 

 

My daughter has just started walking and I'm taking her down to visit my parents tomorrow. Mum has had a rough week with chemo and other various appointments, so this will really cheer them up