Can I ask what you loveshackers think?

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow. You must be psychic! He has texted several times offering me the chance of counselling with him. He offered again tonight to my face and I offered a polygraph or checking his phone. He lost it and then went into the kitchen shouting and called me a c**t having a rant by himself. Saying I'm being unreasonable.

 

 

Honestly if it weren't for you all here pretty much predicting this I would be confused as hell and absolutely agree to it. I spoke to a work colleague/friend today and she said I should absolutely go to counselling and work through it. I firmly believe that I would endure months/years of crap if I did that. I still can't believe he's not begging me for forgiveness and am just blown away by his angry entitlement and calling me names, when he's in this position. But the way you explain it makes sense to me. SO thank you x Apparently with this flat he has got til tomorrow to make a decision. So tonight he's cooking dinner for me

 

I would go to counseling but go their with your boundaries.

 

A smart counselor won't play negotiator with his Bullshyte .

 

But you have to get a smart one.

 

I attend weekly counseling with my husband, its been pretty instrumental for improving communication etc between us.

 

I got called a cunt too. You don't need to put up with that crap.

[dreamingoftigers]

The 180 is a tough line to walk.

 

You need it whether you stay in the relationship or leave it.

 

Counseling doesn't violate the 180 nor commit you to anything aside from going to counseling.

 

Don't let him play victim there either. Watch for these three mind[screw] channels from him. He will try all three. Sometimes in five minutes.

 

-charm

-self-pity

-rage

 

And don't fall for some "oh my friends/co-workers/family (whatever) know that you are a blah blah blah. Or they say you are just trying to blah blah blah."

 

That's triangulating. I don't respond well to that frankly. I've said such things as "I'm sure you gave a fair, non-biased account of your actions :rolleyes:"

 

Or simply: "well they must not know the whole truth of what this is really like then."

[BetrayedH]

Quoted from another site...

 

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner-Davis’s Divorce Busting 180 degree list, here it is:

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say “I Love You”.

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold – just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

 

2 things to think about if you do this:

 

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it’s the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done — that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That’s not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it’s a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That’s when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

 

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what’s going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you’re doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.

[merrmeade]

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what’s going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you’re doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.

Huh? Never heard this and do not understand AT ALL - especially part in bold. How can you plan feelings in advance?! What on earth does that mean—"plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity" and why is this necessary for pete's sake?

[weeble78]

Quoted from another site...

 

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner-Davis’s Divorce Busting 180 degree list, here it is:

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say “I Love You”.

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold – just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

 

2 things to think about if you do this:

 

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it’s the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done — that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That’s not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it’s a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That’s when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

 

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what’s going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you’re doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.

 

 

Thanks BetrayedH. I am trying to focus on all the negative things that have been happening and ignore any of the nostalgia I am feeling right now, and will try out the above in little steps and see how it feels. I have planned a trip out tomorrow for me and my little monkey, been thinking about a new haircut and a start on losing this baby weight, and also concentrating on what adventures I can get up to with my baby once the sunshine reappears after a long winter. The toughest part sounds to remain consistent and to keep going, I've felt like a yoyo the last couple of weeks from one extreme to another. Has anyone else experienced trying the 180 and what did it do for you?

[weeble78]

Huh? Never heard this and do not understand AT ALL - especially part in bold. How can you plan feelings in advance?! What on earth does that mean—"plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity" and why is this necessary for pete's sake?

 

 

I'm thinking the #2 was that beware your spouse can also do a 180 which may also strike up feelings of jealousy and curiosity in you, so to be aware that you may feel like this and continue to not act upon it?

[dreamingoftigers]

Huh? Never heard this and do not understand AT ALL - especially part in bold. How can you plan feelings in advance?! What on earth does that mean—"plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity" and why is this necessary for pete's sake?

 

It means that "expect to have these feelings and not be comfortable with them but don't cave because someone is trying their own 180."

 

Essentially, out-stubborn the bastard.

 

I did. It paid off. I was going to have a good life with or without him. Once it kicked-in that I was serious, things got better. He reverted a couple of times (testing).

 

I guess I grew up in a way that was condusive to implementing this.

My brother and sister are both autistic. One of the popular therapies at the times for early intervention was Lovaas. Basically rewarding good behaviour and ignoring poor behaviour.

 

If you give no fuel to the crappy behaviour your spouse doles out because cheater-pants generally views this as a "power-struggle" it tends to extinguish the stupid a little quicker.

 

You can't even get within ten miles of working on reconciliation so long as cheater-pants is so heavily on the defensive and only sees you as critical.

 

Some great resources for me were: Divorce Remedy, Divorce Busters coaches, Gottman's information about the Four Horsemen. And frankly the Infidelity Support Group's advice not to "take the bait." Often they try to draw you into conflict and arguments. They feel like crap and try to project that on you. Often when it doesn't work (I.e. you don't "take the bait") they start to notice that they can't pin it on you as much. Then they stop trying to....as much.

 

It often takes a 3 rd party to go " whoa whoa whoa, so what's your responsibility here?"

[BetrayedH]

Huh? Never heard this and do not understand AT ALL - especially part in bold. How can you plan feelings in advance?! What on earth does that mean—"plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity" and why is this necessary for pete's sake?

 

I don't know. Quoted from affaircare. Most of it was sound advice so I just copied and pasted.

[weeble78]

It means that "expect to have these feelings and not be comfortable with them but don't cave because someone is trying their own 180."

 

Essentially, out-stubborn the bastard.

 

I did. It paid off. I was going to have a good life with or without him. Once it kicked-in that I was serious, things got better. He reverted a couple of times (testing).

 

I guess I grew up in a way that was condusive to implementing this.

My brother and sister are both autistic. One of the popular therapies at the times for early intervention was Lovaas. Basically rewarding good behaviour and ignoring poor behaviour.

 

If you give no fuel to the crappy behaviour your spouse doles out because cheater-pants generally views this as a "power-struggle" it tends to extinguish the stupid a little quicker.

 

You can't even get within ten miles of working on reconciliation so long as cheater-pants is so heavily on the defensive and only sees you as critical.

 

Some great resources for me were: Divorce Remedy, Divorce Busters coaches, Gottman's information about the Four Horsemen. And frankly the Infidelity Support Group's advice not to "take the bait." Often they try to draw you into conflict and arguments. They feel like crap and try to project that on you. Often when it doesn't work (I.e. you don't "take the bait") they start to notice that they can't pin it on you as much. Then they stop trying to....as much.

 

It often takes a 3 rd party to go " whoa whoa whoa, so what's your responsibility here?"

 

 

Thanks for the further resources. Anything extra may help me get through this and to have a way of making sense out of all this is everything to me at the moment.

 

 

And I'd just like to express how much I am LOLing at 'cheaterpants', one of my close friends went through this 3 years ago (with a new baby and a 4 year old) and I named the OW 'yogapants'. This has stuck all these years and makes us both laugh. From hereonin this will be his new name and will make me laugh if he is kicking off about something.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thanks for the further resources. Anything extra may help me get through this and to have a way of making sense out of all this is everything to me at the moment.

 

 

And I'd just like to express how much I am LOLing at 'cheaterpants', one of my close friends went through this 3 years ago (with a new baby and a 4 year old) and I named the OW 'yogapants'. This has stuck all these years and makes us both laugh. From hereonin this will be his new name and will make me laugh if he is kicking off about something.

 

Now, now this is the spouse you viwed to love, honour and cherish.

 

Don't restrict him to just ONE nickname.

[merrmeade]

I think once you call them on this behavior and you yourself are convinced and see it as manipulative, the game's over. Funny thing was when I called my husband on these tactics he did not argue or say he didn't know what I was talking about - mainly because he also realized the days of gaslighting were also over. He knew exactly and, I think, was relieved that I called his freakin' bluff.

 

See, the thing is it takes two to tango - not that I'm responsible for his exploitation - but that because it worked he kept doing it. Your confusion is what he's taking advantage of and has learned how to exploit to keep you from figuring out his game. Because it worked he got better at it and at the same time - to put it simply - made it harder and harder to redeem himself as a human being.

 

Also possible is once they're cornered—no more ploys, no more excuses, no more lies, no more twisting the blame and focus onto you - and there's nothing left but admitting the truth, well, then begins the shame game with its own guardrails and hidden agenda. The shame game is the victim or self-pity phase. I try to give lip-service to whatever is true and then move on. The self-pity particularly annoys me maybe because I picked up on it first. But like the anger bullshyte, because I don't get sucked in any more, he stopped doing it.

 

But there's another side. Just as I said it takes two to tango, once one of you stops dancing, well, the other doesn't get much out of dancing alone and - soon stops. Everything changes — sometimes for the better.

Edited February 12, 2016 by merrmeade

[BetrayedH]

I think once you call them on this behavior and you yourself are convinced and see it as manipulative, the game's over. Funny thing was when I called my husband on these tactics he did not argue or say he didn't know what I was talking about - mainly because he also realized the days of gaslighting were also over. He knew exactly and, I think, was relieved that I called his freakin' bluff.

 

See, the thing is it takes two to tango - not that I'm responsible for his exploitation - but that because it worked he kept doing it. Your confusion is what he's taking advantage of and has learned how to exploit to keep you from figuring out his game. Because it worked he got better at it and at the same time - to put it simply - made it harder and harder to redeem himself as a human being.

 

Also possible is once they're cornered—no more ploys, no more excuses, no more lies, no more twisting the blame and focus onto you - and there's nothing left but admitting the truth, well, then begins the shame game with its own guardrails and hidden agenda. The shame game is the victim or self-pity phase. I try to give lip-service to whatever is true and then move on. The self-pity particularly annoys me maybe because I picked up on it first. But like the anger bullshyte, because I don't get sucked in any more, he stopped doing it.

 

But there's another side. Just as I said it takes two to tango, once one of you stops dancing, well, the other doesn't get much out of dancing alone and - soon stops. Everything changes — sometimes for the better.

 

It is rather amazing that waywards are so skilled at making themselves into the victim. We should feel awful for what we've put them through.

 

On a few occasions, I asked my wife straight to her face if she really thought she was the victim here. I mean, it sounds kinda ridiculous, doesn't it? That usually left her with her mouth hanging open - no response. Every once in a while, even they can see that what they're saying is a bullsh*t defense.

[dreamingoftigers]

It is rather amazing that waywards are so skilled at making themselves into the victim. We should feel awful for what we've put them through.

 

On a few occasions, I asked my wife straight to her face if she really thought she was the victim here. I mean, it sounds kinda ridiculous, doesn't it? That usually left her with her mouth hanging open - no response. Every once in a while, even they can see that what they're saying is a bullsh*t defense.

 

Blah ha. I think my husband would have said yes.

 

And then countered with how I wasn't one.

 

As well as saying "well you aren't, you aren't happy? Then leave."

 

One time he got to the "that's it I want a divorce!" So having been so fed up with his garbage (we had more issues than adultery. Sorry....HE had more issues than adultery) I just said, "fine, go get one then. You know where my stance is so you'll have to go and do it. Quit wasting my time."

 

He never tried that one again. I could tell that registered a lot of shock.

 

They will push you to the line and beyond to get a reaction from you. When they are this self-destructive there's no stopping them. I swear my husband would have cut off his nose to spite his face and called it a "miracle of modern cosmetic surgery."

 

It's like you wake up one morning and some Alien took control of your spouse.

 

Don't think I don't have compassion for him or don't love him deeply.

 

Frankly, two kids with our backgrounds had not much of a hope in Hell of having a healthy relationship (in hindsight). But I think we've arrived at a place of stability I honestly hadn't thought we would get to for awhile.

 

But for you, now I'd the time to know that you aren't crazy and to not fall for the game-playing. That doesn't mean stuff will work out or he will smarten up. But either way, this should NOT shatter you, and YOU and your child will be okay. He can act like a clown all he wants, but that doesn't mean you have to join his circus.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It is rather amazing that waywards are so skilled at making themselves into the victim. We should feel awful for what we've put them through.

 

On a few occasions, I asked my wife straight to her face if she really thought she was the victim here. I mean, it sounds kinda ridiculous, doesn't it? That usually left her with her mouth hanging open - no response. Every once in a while, even they can see that what they're saying is a bullsh*t defense.

 

Some waywards make themselves into the victim. Some don't.

[BetrayedH]

Some waywards make themselves into the victim. Some don't.

 

Well said. I stand corrected.

 

Every once in a while, I do end up on a bit of a rant. I am generally pretty good about putting in qualifiers but fall short sometimes.

 

There are truly remorseful waywards. And for them, I do actually feel a great deal of sympathy because they feel such regret for the pain they brought to the table. I know some of that regret myself.

 

But for those that persist in this gamesmanship, I've got no qualms about betrayed partners calling it like it is and severing ties. I hate to see waywards disrespect them so much, only to have the betrayed partners further disrespect themselves by settling for scraps while the wayward watches it all happen.

 

I'm an advocate for pulling a 180 and filing for divorce. If the wayward demonstrates sufficient actions that show true remorse such that the BS feels that they might be able to forgive, they can always pause the proceedings. And if the wayward doesn't, then the BS is on the way to the divorce they need. There shouldn't be any entertaining of bullcrap notions in the interim.

 

For what it's worth, please accept my apologies for the slight, Mrs Adams. I consider you a "former" wayward anyway. You've earned your "f" in fWW.

[merrmeade]

Not putting myself as any kind of example. Just the opposite. It's embarrassing to look back at emails I wrote him then. It was so far from the 180. I was confused for a long time. In my case, it took a slow peeling off of layers of reality through painstaking rereading of his emails (one thing he was a champ about was transparency) plus my own therapy. What came out the other end was a version of the 180. Seeing how his weaknesses, problems and choices had taken away my choices made me mad but clear-eyed. I became more resistant to manipulation and confident. Not completely and not all the time — just better sometimes.

 

But I wish I'd known about the 180 earlier. I mean, I do my version of it now. But I think it works similar to behavior therapy: Doing the actions, practicing the behavior eventually you also adopt the attitude and impulses that go with it. That is, doing that list makes you act with decisive confidence, calm centeredness and focused clarity and can begin to make you confident, clear and independent from the inside out, not just on the outside.

[dreamingoftigers]

Not putting myself as any kind of example. Just the opposite. It's embarrassing to look back at emails I wrote him then. It was so far from the 180. I was confused for a long time. In my case, it took a slow peeling off of layers of reality through painstaking rereading of his emails (one thing he was a champ about was transparency) plus my own therapy. What came out the other end was a version of the 180. Seeing how his weaknesses, problems and choices had taken away my choices made me mad but clear-eyed. I became more resistant to manipulation and confident. Not completely and not all the time — just better sometimes.

 

But I wish I'd known about the 180 earlier. I mean, I do my version of it now. But I think it works similar to behavior therapy: Doing the actions, practicing the behavior eventually you also adopt the attitude and impulses that go with it. That is, doing that list makes you act with decisive confidence, calm centeredness and focused clarity and can begin to make you confident, clear and independent from the inside out, not just on the outside.

 

Oh jeepers. We all doormatted ourselves before we 180ed.

 

We all did the "whys" etc. Or we freaked out or broke down.

 

It awoke that whole primal nightmare within us.

 

No quelling that easily.

 

180 is what we ended up getting to after we found out about it, easy way or the hard way.

[weeble78]

I think once you call them on this behavior and you yourself are convinced and see it as manipulative, the game's over. Funny thing was when I called my husband on these tactics he did not argue or say he didn't know what I was talking about - mainly because he also realized the days of gaslighting were also over. He knew exactly and, I think, was relieved that I called his freakin' bluff.

 

See, the thing is it takes two to tango - not that I'm responsible for his exploitation - but that because it worked he kept doing it. Your confusion is what he's taking advantage of and has learned how to exploit to keep you from figuring out his game. Because it worked he got better at it and at the same time - to put it simply - made it harder and harder to redeem himself as a human being.

 

Also possible is once they're cornered—no more ploys, no more excuses, no more lies, no more twisting the blame and focus onto you - and there's nothing left but admitting the truth, well, then begins the shame game with its own guardrails and hidden agenda. The shame game is the victim or self-pity phase. I try to give lip-service to whatever is true and then move on. The self-pity particularly annoys me maybe because I picked up on it first. But like the anger bullshyte, because I don't get sucked in any more, he stopped doing it.

 

But there's another side. Just as I said it takes two to tango, once one of you stops dancing, well, the other doesn't get much out of dancing alone and - soon stops. Everything changes — sometimes for the better.

 

 

It is funny that last night when he kicked off about me sticking to my guns about wanting to see the messaging or polygraphing, when I simply said fine there's nothing more to talk about, he kicked off some more and then made my dinner and cleared up afterwards and asked if I'd watch a tv show with him. Not to say I think he's being nice, rather more that he calmed down quite quickly for somebody being so indignant and angry that I'm 'putting stupid obstacles in our way' and 'deliberately controlling him'.

[dreamingoftigers]

It is funny that last night when he kicked off about me sticking to my guns about wanting to see the messaging or polygraphing, when I simply said fine there's nothing more to talk about, he kicked off some more and then made my dinner and cleared up afterwards and asked if I'd watch a tv show with him. Not to say I think he's being nice, rather more that he calmed down quite quickly for somebody being so indignant and angry that I'm 'putting stupid obstacles in our way' and 'deliberately controlling him'.

 

That's it. Who cloned my husband?

 

Especially the watching TV.

 

And you did, right?

[weeble78]

In a way I'm grateful I went through this in my last long relationship. I went through months of crazy-making behaviour blaming myself, I lost 3 stone in about 2 months and actually felt detached from real life. I can see all this for what it is now, and all your comments and advise are helping keep me grounded in reality and what is really happening here.

 

 

He has had so many outbursts blaming the demise of our relationship on me, blaming me not wanting to go straight to counselling and taking a 3 month trial to get back to a happy marriage. In the past I'd have jumped at that, now I'm thinking he'd like a 3 month trial because he's wanting to keep the status quo here while trying things out with new woman.

 

 

Did I tell you about OW? She is a few years older than him, nearly 10 years older than me, with a 7 year old daughter. She lives with a partner in a house she has bought and works on WH team. He manages her. I first met this girl about 2 years ago when I was pregnant - and she started giving me unsolicited advice. She was quite in my face. She started coming over the house and bringing baby stuff for us, giving advice on how to handle things every day, messaging me on facebook to see how I was doing. She's an overfriendly type, I thought she was trying to score brownie points with the boss and she's also funny, loud and somebody you could have a good time with. This continued until we'd had our daughter, and then it stepped up a few notches with her constantly messaging both me and my husband (he didn't hide it then). She'd ask me to go out for drinks with her, message me in the early hours of the morning if I was up with the baby, send over little gifts for me and the baby. It felt weird. But I told myself I was being ungrateful. Lastly, WH had her babysit for us. Twice. Twice she held my daughter while she was crying and wouldn't go to sleep. Twice she came in our house while we were out. Twice WH fell over himself to give her a lift home, get nice wine for her to drink etc etc.

 

 

I think there is a little more backstory to them than just a few texts. Although maybe more from her than him.

 

 

I confronted her via messaging. Very nicely. Just to judge her reaction more than find anything out. She sent a long email saying she understood why, they are just good friends, don't let it come between us as a family. Unfortunately for her WH had already admitted to the messaging, so she did end up looking a bit silly and showed herself to be a liar.

 

 

Back to WH. He found a flat yesterday and is supposed to be deciding on it by today. He keeps desperately going back to if we can go for counselling, but I'm not moving from wanting transparency. So hopefully he will take up the flat today and not keep flip flopping around and getting angry.

 

 

Might be a strange day. Also not going away for the day now as little one has been up this morning with a temperature and little holdy uppy arms wanting cuddles bless. Another day of CBeebies and reading books to her!

 

 

Thanks for all keeping me sane right now. It is amazing to find a community where you can all share your thoughts and offer invaluable advice, it all helps make so much sense.

[weeble78]

That's it. Who cloned my husband?

 

Especially the watching TV.

 

And you did, right?

 

 

Ha ha, I did while I was eating my beautifully prepared homecooked meal. But then I went upstairs to what is now my room, as I had other things to do in preference to listening to him shouting about obstacles and how I'm making things difficult for him.

[weeble78]

So looks like I have a STBXH. He's moving out 4th March and has signed his new contract.

 

 

Utterly devastated. Only married 2.5 years. Have a daughter of 1 year.

 

 

I can't survive this. I can't.

 

 

Tellingly I asked him for OW not to be around our daughter, and he kicked off saying he'll do what he wants and if she happens to be around he's not going to stop it. I threatened to take him to court if he wants to get nasty.

 

 

After calming down he remembered to deny they've ever had a relationship anyway.

 

 

Anyone agree this sounds suspicious?

[dreamingoftigers]

So looks like I have a STBXH. He's moving out 4th March and has signed his new contract.

 

 

Utterly devastated. Only married 2.5 years. Have a daughter of 1 year.

 

 

I can't survive this. I can't.

 

 

Tellingly I asked him for OW not to be around our daughter, and he kicked off saying he'll do what he wants and if she happens to be around he's not going to stop it. I threatened to take him to court if he wants to get nasty.

 

 

After calming down he remembered to deny they've ever had a relationship anyway.

 

 

Anyone agree this sounds suspicious?

 

Maybe just a TAD!

[BetrayedH]

So looks like I have a STBXH. He's moving out 4th March and has signed his new contract.

 

 

Utterly devastated. Only married 2.5 years. Have a daughter of 1 year.

 

 

I can't survive this. I can't.

 

 

Tellingly I asked him for OW not to be around our daughter, and he kicked off saying he'll do what he wants and if she happens to be around he's not going to stop it. I threatened to take him to court if he wants to get nasty.

 

 

After calming down he remembered to deny they've ever had a relationship anyway.

 

 

Anyone agree this sounds suspicious?

 

Considering that he made such efforts to deny you access to his messages, yeah, it's suspicious.

 

If those messages would have confirmed that he'd just had a bit of an emotional fling with this girl, he would have been dying for you to read them.

 

Instead, he went to great efforts and has thrown several temper tantrums to ensure that you never read them. He doesn't want you to read what he wrote to her because he knows you'll find out much more incriminating crap than you know already.

 

So far, he's been following the cheater's handbook to the letter: lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and lie some more. They will only tell you what you already know, and sometimes one bit more to make you think that now you know it all. If you discover another falsehood, they'll say that they didn't want to hurt you, that they wanted to protect you. It's called, trickle truth.

 

His refusal to share messages that would show this to have been nothing more than an innocent flirting relationship is very telling.

 

I think his decision to move out just shows that he's going to double-down on his lies and pressure. He figures that you'll never really "know" what happened unless he makes the mistake of admitting it (or letting you dig into that phone).

 

I think he's been into this affair much longer than you'd ever suspect. Before he ever admits it to you, he'll go ahead with plan B: the OW.

 

Don't fight for him. He is not the prize. YOU are the prize.

[weeble78]

Considering that he made such efforts to deny you access to his messages, yeah, it's suspicious.

 

If those messages would have confirmed that he'd just had a bit of an emotional fling with this girl, he would have been dying for you to read them.

 

Instead, he went to great efforts and has thrown several temper tantrums to ensure that you never read them. He doesn't want you to read what he wrote to her because he knows you'll find out much more incriminating crap than you know already.

 

So far, he's been following the cheater's handbook to the letter: lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and lie some more. They will only tell you what you already know, and sometimes one bit more to make you think that now you know it all. If you discover another falsehood, they'll say that they didn't want to hurt you, that they wanted to protect you. It's called, trickle truth.

 

His refusal to share messages that would show this to have been nothing more than an innocent flirting relationship is very telling.

 

I think his decision to move out just shows that he's going to double-down on his lies and pressure. He figures that you'll never really "know" what happened unless he makes the mistake of admitting it (or letting you dig into that phone).

 

I think he's been into this affair much longer than you'd ever suspect. Before he ever admits it to you, he'll go ahead with plan B: the OW.

 

Don't fight for him. He is not the prize. YOU are the prize.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your response BetrayedH. I've been crying all day and had a panic attack. My poor daughter is really confused. I feel like I've been hit by a bus.

 

 

Just a few weeks ago he wanted to book a holiday abroad for us all, to make up for my birthday last year. I'd started emailing him at work saying how much I was missing him and asking for snuggles, other romantic stuff. Why would he be doing that? He said he'd missed me too and he loves me, started trying to hug me more spontaneously and do other things we've missed out on the last few months since my mum's been poorly.

 

 

I'd been cold the last few months as I was angry he'd been trying to make my mum's illness about him and he seemed annoyed the attention was on my mum and my daughter, that there was none for him. I had pushed him away. Could he not be realising that now and just have had a text thing with this girl and now be wanting to come back to me? He's right, I do have a history of bringing up the past and holding things over him for longer than I perhaps should.

 

 

Can it be possible it's really been going on for a while now and he wants to keep carrying on in secret (he says it was an attention and sex thing). She has a partner at home, the father of her child. What is he thinking?