Spouse repeatedly threatens with the D-word

[Morcenx]

Hello,

 

I've been with my wife about six years and we have a one year old child. She is exhibiting some symptoms of what seems to be postpartum depression, some of which are amplifications of traits she showed prior to when she got pregnant. Now whenever she gets upset with me, she drops the D-word. As she thinks I wouldn't want custody of our child, she adds that she'll leave me with custody, which strongly suggests she isn't serious with her use of the D-word. I am almost 100% sure she would want custody of our child if there were a divorce. She is a stay-at-home mom and works one day a week.

 

Here are some of her traits:

 

1) Phobic of outdoors (e.g. won't even take our baby to the park, which is within walking distance of our house; doesn't want to get out of the car when we go for a "Sunday afternoon drive")

2) Refuses to go to counseling

3) Repeatedly accuses me of being stingy when I've been generous with her

4) Treats me very disrespectfully (e.g. hangs up the phone on me, disregards my constructive suggestions, criticizes me, speaks to me in hostile/impolite tones, etc.)

5) Demands luxury gifts. When I don't give in (because she's been treating me poorly), she points to other couples and says something like "Jack bought Jill a $60,000 BMV"

6) Refuses to go to the doctor for herself or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

7) She'll go on a rant, perhaps even using the D-word, then the following day peacefully ask about some future plan we need to have together for our child.

8) She is insisting on having her mother move in with us, when we have already came to a clear agreement that her mother isn't to live in our house. She now wishes to renege on this agreement.

9) Stays up very late and wakes up late. Refuses to attempt to modify her sleep schedule, saying it's impossible.

10) Lets the baby stay up late (often well beyond midnight)

11) When she won't speak rationally with me about the aforementioned issues, I say I'll talk with her friends. She responds by saying I'm the laughingstock among her friends because I talk to them about my wife.

12) Never says "I'm sorry"

13) Blames me for any problem she causes with respect to housekeeping.

 

Perhaps there's more I could add. Please feel free to ask questions.

 

You may all be wondering why I stick with this marriage in spite of the above. I'm well aware of the pain of divorce and am willing to endure (largely because of our child) if she isn't serious about a divorce.

[central]

Call her bluff and stop her manipulation. Suggest she get a full time job, then once she has (or increased her hours), file for divorce (may as well ask for full custody, then negotiate). To encourage her to work, give her a tight budget for household and family expenses, and no more. Let her use her own money to buy anything else. In the end, you don't have to divorce her, only make her think you will if she does not shape up.

 

 

Search for "the 180," and implement it to focus on your own personal development.

[mightycpa]

I think you need to differentiate between her problems with you and her problems caring for the child. First things first:

 

1) Phobic of outdoors (e.g. won't even take our baby to the park, which is within walking distance of our house; doesn't want to get out of the car when we go for a "Sunday afternoon drive")

6) Refuses to go to the doctor for herself or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

9) Stays up very late and wakes up late. Refuses to attempt to modify her sleep schedule, saying it's impossible.

10) Lets the baby stay up late (often well beyond midnight)

 

Does she refuse to let the baby sleep or does she simply not see to it that the baby sleeps? In a nutshell, that's neglectful on one end of the spectrum and wacko on the other. If it's PPD, then those are some strange symptoms. It sounds more like a mental illness, although I'm no expert.

 

Probably what I would do if I were you would be to arrange well-baby, gyno, primary care and psychological visits and document missed appointments. I would also document the sleep issues, including dates and times. I would video record any erratic behavior. I would also arrange other activities, like going outdoors, and document her refusal to participate as well. I would also have a third party document as much of this is possible. Talk with the mother about any family history of mental illness or strange behavior. All of this would be with an eye toward gaining custody and having her declared unfit as primary guardian.

 

You can't help someone who won't help themselves, and mentally ill people are notorious for not helping themselves. Don't leave it to chance. Get some good legal advice on your side. Get ready. Your child deserves a chance at a reasonably normal childhood.

[carhill]

IMO, no need to enable such behaviors/ultimatums. Serve her up and then she'll have to respond. Mean? Maybe. Women have been doing it for ages, which is why they file the most divorce lawsuits, by far.

 

I get that you're scared she'll clean your clock. Well, she can anyway. Why agonize over the guillotine? Do something and get your head off the block.

 

In nearly every legal partnership or interaction, once someone starts threatening a lawsuit everything goes sideways. It's not something that can be 'erased', rather is remembered forever. Being 'whatever' doesn't give her divine absolution from the choices she makes. They have consequences. Enforce them.

[Morcenx]

Call her bluff and stop her manipulation. Suggest she get a full time job, then once she has (or increased her hours), file for divorce (may as well ask for full custody, then negotiate). To encourage her to work, give her a tight budget for household and family expenses, and no more. Let her use her own money to buy anything else. In the end, you don't have to divorce her, only make her think you will if she does not shape up.

 

 

Search for "the 180," and implement it to focus on your own personal development.

 

I read the 180. That is some very good advice. So good, I'm going to post it here:

 

So here, it is without further ado:

 

The 180

 

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

 

2. No frequent phone calls.

 

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

 

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

 

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

 

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

 

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

 

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

 

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

 

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

 

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

 

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

 

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

 

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

 

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

 

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

 

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

 

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

 

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

 

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

 

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

 

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

 

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

 

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

 

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

 

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

 

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

 

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

 

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

 

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

 

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

 

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

 

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.

[central]

The 180 was created to deal with a cheating spouse, but it works just as well with an unreasonable spouse.

[Morcenx]

1) Phobic of outdoors (e.g. won't even take our baby to the park, which is within walking distance of our house; doesn't want to get out of the car when we go for a "Sunday afternoon drive")

6) Refuses to go to the doctor for herself or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

9) Stays up very late and wakes up late. Refuses to attempt to modify her sleep schedule, saying it's impossible.

10) Lets the baby stay up late (often well beyond midnight)

I think you need to differentiate between her problems with you and her problems caring for the child. First things first:

 

 

 

Does she refuse to let the baby sleep or does she simply not see to it that the baby sleeps?

 

The baby typically sleeps through the night, but doesn't begin to sleep until after midnight. Upon asking about getting our baby to bed earlier, she claims it's not possible. I ask her how she knows that and she gives no response. IOW, it's clear she knows it's possible, but has too much pride to admit she's wrong.

 

In a nutshell, that's neglectful on one end of the spectrum and wacko on the other. If it's PPD, then those are some strange symptoms. It sounds more like a mental illness, although I'm no expert.

I'm curious, which of the items I listed would you consider signs of a mental illness? I've been with her long enough to believe she doesn't have a mental illness, but I do believe she's suffering from some kind of depression.

 

Probably what I would do if I were you would be to arrange well-baby, gyno, primary care and psychological visits and document missed appointments. I would also document the sleep issues, including dates and times. I would video record any erratic behavior. I would also arrange other activities, like going outdoors, and document her refusal to participate as well. I would also have a third party document as much of this is possible. Talk with the mother about any family history of mental illness or strange behavior. All of this would be with an eye toward gaining custody and having her declared unfit as primary guardian.

Very good advice. I've already been documenting these things.

 

You can't help someone who won't help themselves, and mentally ill people are notorious for not helping themselves. Don't leave it to chance. Get some good legal advice on your side. Get ready. Your child deserves a chance at a reasonably normal childhood.

I'd ideally like to work things out with my wife than leave my child in a broken family and be single again. When things are good with my wife, it may not be perfect, but it's definitely far better than minimally acceptable.

[Morcenx]

IMO, no need to enable such behaviors/ultimatums. Serve her up and then she'll have to respond. Mean? Maybe. Women have been doing it for ages, which is why they file the most divorce lawsuits, by far.

When you say "why", do you mean why women are the ones who file more often than men? Why do you suppose women don't wish to try to work things out in counseling. And does an unwillingness to go to counseling work against one if it goes to court or an arbitrator?

 

I get that you're scared she'll clean your clock. Well, she can anyway. Why agonize over the guillotine? Do something and get your head off the block.

I'm prepared for that. But I know she's concerned she won't get custody. She thinks I don't want custody, so when I hear her threats that she'll dump custody on me (when I know she wants custody), it clearly tells me she's just trying to rattle my chain.

 

In nearly every legal partnership or interaction, once someone starts threatening a lawsuit everything goes sideways. It's not something that can be 'erased', rather is remembered forever. Being 'whatever' doesn't give her divine absolution from the choices she makes. They have consequences. Enforce them.

Good points.

[Redhead14]

Hello,

 

I've been with my wife about six years and we have a one year old child. She is exhibiting some symptoms of what seems to be postpartum depression, some of which are amplifications of traits she showed prior to when she got pregnant. Now whenever she gets upset with me, she drops the D-word. As she thinks I wouldn't want custody of our child, she adds that she'll leave me with custody, which strongly suggests she isn't serious with her use of the D-word. I am almost 100% sure she would want custody of our child if there were a divorce. She is a stay-at-home mom and works one day a week.

 

Here are some of her traits:

 

1) Phobic of outdoors (e.g. won't even take our baby to the park, which is within walking distance of our house; doesn't want to get out of the car when we go for a "Sunday afternoon drive")

2) Refuses to go to counseling

3) Repeatedly accuses me of being stingy when I've been generous with her

4) Treats me very disrespectfully (e.g. hangs up the phone on me, disregards my constructive suggestions, criticizes me, speaks to me in hostile/impolite tones, etc.)

5) Demands luxury gifts. When I don't give in (because she's been treating me poorly), she points to other couples and says something like "Jack bought Jill a $60,000 BMV"

6) Refuses to go to the doctor for herself or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

7) She'll go on a rant, perhaps even using the D-word, then the following day peacefully ask about some future plan we need to have together for our child.

8) She is insisting on having her mother move in with us, when we have already came to a clear agreement that her mother isn't to live in our house. She now wishes to renege on this agreement.

9) Stays up very late and wakes up late. Refuses to attempt to modify her sleep schedule, saying it's impossible.

10) Lets the baby stay up late (often well beyond midnight)

11) When she won't speak rationally with me about the aforementioned issues, I say I'll talk with her friends. She responds by saying I'm the laughingstock among her friends because I talk to them about my wife.

12) Never says "I'm sorry"

13) Blames me for any problem she causes with respect to housekeeping.

 

Perhaps there's more I could add. Please feel free to ask questions.

 

You may all be wondering why I stick with this marriage in spite of the above. I'm well aware of the pain of divorce and am willing to endure (largely because of our child) if she isn't serious about a divorce.

 

or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

Lets the baby stay up late

Stays up very late and wakes up late. -- If she's waking up late, what's going on with the child until she does wake up? Neglected until then?

 

Nothing else you've said is more important than the 3 statements highlighted above.

 

'm well aware of the pain of divorce and am willing to endure (largely because of our child)

 

This is the very reason you should seek a divorce. She is not a good mother to your child and the environment in the home cannot be good for a young child -- even a baby. Your number 1 priority is the child.

 

There is a saying: "Children would rather be FROM a broken home than BE in one". This situation will get worse and that child will suffer.

 

You opting not to divorce because you are afraid of dealing with the pain is selfish. Think of the child.

 

Beyond this, she is clearly emotionally unstable. Since she refused to seek counseling, that is the secondary reason for divorcing.

[carhill]

When you say "why", do you mean why women are the ones who file more often than men? Why do you suppose women don't wish to try to work things out in counseling. And does an unwillingness to go to counseling work against one if it goes to court or an arbitrator?

 

Women consider their feelings, and the facts, and execute, by the numbers, far more often than men. Of course, numbers don't explain everything but, push come to shove, down at the old courthouse it's guys getting served with lawsuits far more often than women. That part is undeniable.

 

Specifics vary by jurisdiction. In ours, they could care less about anything other than child custody and apportioning assets and debts. The tat for tat of the marriage is irrelevant. Sure, there are plenty of politics and power plays outside the courtroom but that's interpersonal relationship stuff having nothing to do with any legal proceedings.

 

If things aren't working, make the appropriate motions in a filing, serve her and suggest mediation and/or counseling. In order for any suit to proceed it needs to be prosecuted in a timely manner as outlined by the jurisdiction. It's not inevitable. As example, she can not respond in the proscribed period and that doesn't mean it has to go to default, rather means it can. However, as the petitioner, you have more control in that regard, at least in my jurisdiction.

 

I did all this stuff awhile back, yeah including a bunch of MC, and, save for the child custody part, got to know the process in intimate detail, enough that I won't be going there again.

 

It takes two, a team, to make a marriage work. If you aren't two, a team, fuggetaboutit and move on. If you think she's upside down because of some postpartum thing, OK, get her to the doc and work it. If she's uncooperative, hey that's her problem.

 

Getting bogged down in the details will chew you up. Keep it simple. Clarify.

[Morcenx]

or make doctor appointments for herself or our child.

Lets the baby stay up late

Stays up very late and wakes up late. -- If she's waking up late, what's going on with the child until she does wake up? Neglected until then?

Other than not taking the baby outdoors, letting the baby stay up late and refusing to make doctor appointments, she is very attentive and protective of the baby. She's thorough and regular with feeding him and changing his diaper - albeit messy sometimes.

 

Nothing else you've said is more important than the 3 statements highlighted above.

 

'm well aware of the pain of divorce and am willing to endure (largely because of our child)

 

This is the very reason you should seek a divorce. She is not a good mother to your child and the environment in the home cannot be good for a young child -- even a baby. Your number 1 priority is the child.

I think I'd prefer a legal separation initially. I don't know what the law says, but I've heard that if we're living in the same house, but in separate bedrooms, that qualifies as being separated from the perspective of the law. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.

 

There is a saying: "Children would rather be FROM a broken home than BE in one". This situation will get worse and that child will suffer.

But the suffering won't be so much from the aforementioned items, but from not being in a household where both parents are loving. My wife has been verbally abusive to me in front of our child.

 

You opting not to divorce because you are afraid of dealing with the pain is selfish. Think of the child.

If my wife doesn't want a divorce enough that she's willing to either file herself or have a rational & respectful conversation with me about it, then I'm not inclined to file for divorce myself. But if that's the case, the boundaries I set are going to be even more rigid - unless she seeks counseling and cleans up her act.

 

Beyond this, she is clearly emotionally unstable. Since she refused to seek counseling, that is the secondary reason for divorcing.

How do the courts/arbitrators look at it when one party won't seek counseling and the other does?

[Redhead14]

How do the courts/arbitrators look at it when one party won't seek counseling and the other does?-- I'd say that varies from state to state -- location. But, if you document behaviors specifically with dates, etc. and they see enough, they would court order counseling. I think they wouldn't need much beyond the fact that she does let the baby stay up late and won't get medical attention for the child, that by itself would be a flag to them. It sure is for me.

 

My wife has been verbally abusive to me in front of our child. -- Additional fodder for demonstrating poor mothering.

 

Blames me for any problem she causes with respect to housekeeping. -- I mean't to ask about this statement. Does this mean she doesn't keep a clean home and blames you for that? Is more evidence of poor mothering. Just because a mother feeds and cleans/changes diapers doesn't mean she does it because she's being attentive -- some do it because they want quiet . . . baby cries because it's hungry or diaper full, do what needs to be done to get them to be quiet.

 

albeit messy sometimes. -- says to me that she does it hurriedly to get it over with . . .

 

She threatened to divorce you, I'd call her bluff and beat her to the punch. Go to a lawyer and lay out the concerns and get a professional opinion on all this. It's worth the cost of a consultation at least.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Redhead14

[carhill]

 

 

I think I'd prefer a legal separation initially. I don't know what the law says, but I've heard that if we're living in the same house, but in separate bedrooms, that qualifies as being separated from the perspective of the law. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.

Look into that. In my jurisdiction, the only difference between the two, both lawsuits, is that one can remarry if divorced and cannot remarry if legally separated. Both are lawsuits and, generally, settle all issues of the partnership dissolution save for those which can be and/or are agreed upon to bifurcate.

 

 

But the suffering won't be so much from the aforementioned items, but from not being in a household where both parents are loving. My wife has been verbally abusive to me in front of our child.

Stuff happens. Family health is important. As long as you and your spouse are at loggerheads and in the same space, expect what's happening now to continue. That doesn't mean it will, but expect and accept it.

 

 

If my wife doesn't want a divorce enough that she's willing to either file herself or have a rational & respectful conversation with me about it, then I'm not inclined to file for divorce myself. But if that's the case, the boundaries I set are going to be even more rigid - unless she seeks counseling and cleans up her act.

That's a customary male perspective and part of why women file for divorce so much. Up to you whether you want to follow custom or buck it. Any agreements or actions to seek counseling or mediation can precede any filings or take place after any filings. Generally, ultimatums only work if they are enforced. Once deemed impotent, they're worthless. Hence, go to counseling because that's a wise move, not because either of you is under threat of lawsuit if you don't. Right reasons and wrong reasons.

 

 

How do the courts/arbitrators look at it when one party won't seek counseling and the other does?

Around here, they could care less. However, people who learn from counseling *may* be more inclined to divorce amicably, decreasing workload on mediators and lawyers and judges and their own wallets. Up to you.

[Morcenx]

How do the courts/arbitrators look at it when one party won't seek counseling and the other does?-- I'd say that varies from state to state -- location. But, if you document behaviors specifically with dates, etc. and they see enough, they would court order counseling. I think they wouldn't need much beyond the fact that she does let the baby stay up late and won't get medical attention for the child, that by itself would be a flag to them. It sure is for me.

 

My wife has been verbally abusive to me in front of our child. -- Additional fodder for demonstrating poor mothering.

 

Blames me for any problem she causes with respect to housekeeping. -- I mean't to ask about this statement. Does this mean she doesn't keep a clean home and blames you for that? Is more evidence of poor mothering. Just because a mother feeds and cleans/changes diapers doesn't mean she does it because she's being attentive -- some do it because they want quiet . . . baby cries because it's hungry or diaper full, do what needs to be done to get them to be quiet.

 

albeit messy sometimes. -- says to me that she does it hurriedly to get it over with . . .

 

She threatened to divorce you, I'd call her bluff and beat her to the punch. Go to a lawyer and lay out the concerns and get a professional opinion on all this. It's worth the cost of a consultation at least.

When I speak of blaming me for poor housekeeping, there are several things. But the best example is when she eats food in the living room area, she constantly spills food, which falls onto the carpet or into the crevasses of the couch (she's even worse about this in her car). I've repeatedly reminded her to be more careful (which she ignores) and even went to far as to put up a sign saying no food in that area and/or demand that she never eat food in that area. I'll point out to her that the food can create bacteria which can lead to illness. She still doesn't improve.

[Morcenx]

Another thing I forgot to mention is when she has a spat/tizzy and won't speak rationally or respectfully with me about important matters, I have no choice but to go to her friends with the hope that maybe she'll speak rationally & respectfully with them. However, when I do this, she throws a big tizzy and says that I'm the laughingstock among her friends.

[mightycpa]

• Going outside phobia
  
• Doesn't speak rationally
  
• Refuses to go to doctor
  
• Refuses to take baby to doctor
  

 

All that stuff points to a mental imbalance. Irrational distrust is what it all boils down to, and that leads to strange behavior. It might be PPD, but it might not.

 

As for your desire to stay married rather than not, all I'm saying is to prepare for the possibility that this desire won't be your final option. The best way to prepare is to seek legal counsel, because fair or not, they'll know what you should do and what you shouldn't do.

[GorillaTheater]

When I speak of blaming me for poor housekeeping, there are several things. But the best example is when she eats food in the living room area, she constantly spills food, which falls onto the carpet or into the crevasses of the couch (she's even worse about this in her car). I've repeatedly reminded her to be more careful (which she ignores) and even went to far as to put up a sign saying no food in that area and/or demand that she never eat food in that area. I'll point out to her that the food can create bacteria which can lead to illness. She still doesn't improve.

 

 

Strikes me as a little controlling, OP.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is when she has a spat/tizzy and won't speak rationally or respectfully with me about important matters, I have no choice but to go to her friends with the hope that maybe she'll speak rationally & respectfully with them. However, when I do this, she throws a big tizzy and says that I'm the laughingstock among her friends.

 

 

And this strikes me as pretty odd. I'd consider stopping that, were I you.

 

 

A lot of behaviors you described on the part of your wife are pretty troubling. What I want to suggest to you is that it may not be entirely one-sided.

 

 

When you say she has refused counseling, does that include marriage counseling for both of you?

[Morcenx]

When I speak of blaming me for poor housekeeping, there are several things. But the best example is when she eats food in the living room area, she constantly spills food, which falls onto the carpet or into the crevasses of the couch (she's even worse about this in her car). I've repeatedly reminded her to be more careful (which she ignores) and even went to far as to put up a sign saying no food in that area and/or demand that she never eat food in that area. I'll point out to her that the food can create bacteria which can lead to illness. She still doesn't improve.

 

Strikes me as a little controlling, OP.

I'd agree. I'd like to think that an adult I'm living with wouldn't put me in a situation in which I have to treat her like a child.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is when she has a spat/tizzy and won't speak rationally or respectfully with me about important matters, I have no choice but to go to her friends with the hope that maybe she'll speak rationally & respectfully with them. However, when I do this, she throws a big tizzy and says that I'm the laughingstock among her friends.

 

And this strikes me as pretty odd. I'd consider stopping that, were I you.

Let's say you need to communicate with Johnny about something important. But for whatever reason, Johnny doesn't wish to communicate with you. However, Johnny is on good terms with Jimmy and so are you. Why would it not make sense to use Jimmy as a conduit through which you could communicate with Johnny?

 

A lot of behaviors you described on the part of your wife are pretty troubling. What I want to suggest to you is that it may not be entirely one-sided.

While I might not be the most perfect person in the world, this thread is about her behavior.

 

When you say she has refused counseling, does that include marriage counseling for both of you?

Yes. I've been to counseling. She refuses to go. She won't even go to counseling at her church. I've always seen refusal to go to counseling as sort of an admission that the refusing person knows they have a problem. If not, what would they be afraid of by going to counseling?

[266696687]

Strikes me as a little controlling, OP.

 

 

 

 

And this strikes me as pretty odd. I'd consider stopping that, were I you.

 

 

A lot of behaviors you described on the part of your wife are pretty troubling. What I want to suggest to you is that it may not be entirely one-sided.

 

 

When you say she has refused counseling, does that include marriage counseling for both of you?

 

Yeah I've noticed a few things through OP's posts that suggest perhaps this is not as one sided as it appears on the surface.

 

OP the issue you have with her eating in the living room even going as far as putting up a sign in an attempt to prevent her eating in that area is beyond controlling. It's absurd.

 

You say your wife sleeps in late? What time does she get up? She must wake up when the baby wakes up? I'm wondering what you consider to be late?

 

I know plenty of parents that keep their babies up later (for a certain period) as it encourages them to sleep through the night - this is not a long term solution but usually used for a while so that the mother can sleep without interruption.

 

I'm not surprised she gets in a tizzy when you talk to her friends about your problems. I wouldn't tolerate this behaviour. This comes off as controlling as well and would be a deal breaker for me. I'm surprised she has allowed this behaviour to continue. It's beyond disrespectful.

 

I think there is problems on both sides and I'm wondering if your (obscenely) high standards particularly relating to housekeeping etc are due to an issue you have regarding bacteria? Or OCD? If a few crumbs on the couch and in the car are your best examples of poor housekeeping it's pretty obvious this issue isn't hers.

 

This also makes me start to have doubts regarding your other issues?

 

Why is she scared to go outside?

[266696687]

I'd agree. I'd like to think that an adult I'm living with wouldn't put me in a situation in which I have to treat her like a child.

 

 

Let's say you need to communicate with Johnny about something important. But for whatever reason, Johnny doesn't wish to communicate with you. However, Johnny is on good terms with Jimmy and so are you. Why would it not make sense to use Jimmy as a conduit through which you could communicate with Johnny?

 

 

While I might not be the most perfect person in the world, this thread is about her behavior.

 

 

Yes. I've been to counseling. She refuses to go. She won't even go to counseling at her church. I've always seen refusal to go to counseling as sort of an admission that the refusing person knows they have a problem. If not, what would they be afraid of by going to counseling?

 

Why are you diverting attention away from your behaviour? Some of which you have clearly stated above is unacceptable? If you can't deal with and address your own issues that you bring to the relationship how are you going to help and assist your wife in dealing with hers. How will you compromise to bring a solution you can both live with?

 

 

I'm afraid you are part of the equation. A relationship is 50/50.

[carhill]

In every marriage each party is solely responsible for their own choices and behavior.

 

Here, the spouse repeatedly threatens with the D-word, meaning threatening divorce, as part of interaction. She's responsible for that, along with whatever other behaviors are displayed. The OP is responsible for his behaviors. He apparently has not threatened divorce in their interactions. She also has apparently stated she'll leave him with custody of their one year old child, one she is currently the stay at home mother of. Strong statements.

 

I'd take them, form up a filing with those aspects included and, essentially, agree with her threats and statements. OK, you want this and this, let's go.

 

What I usually do in these cases is something our MC used to do, flipping the roles and 'putting one into the other persons shoes'. If his spouse were here with the same litany of complaints and seeking advice regarding threats her husband made to divorce her, how would things go? It's often interesting to examine bias in such matters.

[266696687]

In every marriage each party is solely responsible for their own choices and behavior.

 

Here, the spouse repeatedly threatens with the D-word, meaning threatening divorce, as part of interaction. She's responsible for that, along with whatever other behaviors are displayed. The OP is responsible for his behaviors. He apparently has not threatened divorce in their interactions. She also has apparently stated she'll leave him with custody of their one year old child, one she is currently the stay at home mother of. Strong statements.

 

I'd take them, form up a filing with those aspects included and, essentially, agree with her threats and statements. OK, you want this and this, let's go.

 

What I usually do in these cases is something our MC used to do, flipping the roles and 'putting one into the other persons shoes'. If his spouse were here with the same litany of complaints and seeking advice regarding threats her husband made to divorce her, how would things go? It's often interesting to examine bias in such matters.

 

He might not have threatened divorce but he puts up signs in the living room to prevent her eating in there because she drops a few crumbs!

 

It's not a bias. The problems in the relationship above are clearly not one sided. There are issues on both sides.

 

If he only wants to focus on his wife's behaviour (he clearly believes he doesn't have any issues) and not both parties then there is nothing to save. It takes two people to destroy a relationship (in most cases).

[carhill]

Sure it's biased. I'm biased, you're biased. He's biased. We all write our own narratives to benefit ourselves.

 

 

This kind of focus on minutiae will only serve to take away from the big picture, the one where they're not getting along and each apparently perceives the other in a negative light, so much that the wife is threatening divorce.

 

OP, good question - do you still love your wife? Why?

[266696687]

Sure it's biased. I'm biased, you're biased. He's biased. We all write our own narratives to benefit ourselves.

 

 

This kind of focus on minutiae will only serve to take away from the big picture, the one where they're not getting along and each apparently perceives the other in a negative light, so much that the wife is threatening divorce.

 

OP, good question - do you still love your wife? Why?

 

Yes and that's what is being pointed out to the OP. He cannot place blame on his wife completely. He must accept he owns 50 percent of the responsibility.

 

You cannot save a marriage (which he clearly stated he wants) without first looking at both parties issues. It's not all his wife's fault and it's not all his faults. They have both brought issues into their relationship.

 

Saving a marriage takes compromise from both people. The OP at this point only wants to focus on his wife's behaviour. Hasn't taken any responsibility for any issues that he has contributed too even though he professes that he wants to save his marriage. Solely blaming his wife is not going to save his marriage. - this is the bigger picture.

Edited February 12, 2016 by 266696687

[Morcenx]

Yeah I've noticed a few things through OP's posts that suggest perhaps this is not as one sided as it appears on the surface.

 

OP the issue you have with her eating in the living room even going as far as putting up a sign in an attempt to prevent her eating in that area is beyond controlling. It's absurd.

Correct, it's absurd that one should have to resort to those kinds of measures. It's not like she did this once and I asked once to be more careful about it. It's happened well over a dozen times. I ask politely and get either no cooperation or she throws a tizzy-fit.

 

You say your wife sleeps in late? What time does she get up? She must wake up when the baby wakes up? I'm wondering what you consider to be late?

My personal feeling is it shouldn't matter what the clock says when someone - or a child - goes to bed and wakes up, as long as they get the appropriate amount of sleep. She'll go to bed well beyond midnight and the baby is up typically beyond midnight. I've asked her to adjust her sleep hours, but she insists it's impossible to do.

 

I know plenty of parents that keep their babies up later (for a certain period) as it encourages them to sleep through the night - this is not a long term solution but usually used for a while so that the mother can sleep without interruption.

Not an issue, as our baby typically sleeps through the night.

 

I'm not surprised she gets in a tizzy when you talk to her friends about your problems. I wouldn't tolerate this behaviour. This comes off as controlling as well and would be a deal breaker for me. I'm surprised she has allowed this behaviour to continue. It's beyond disrespectful.

If you didn't like it if your SO went around you and spoke with your friends any time you refused to discuss important issues with your SO, would you continue to let your SO go to your friends or would you change your MO so that you would discuss important issues?

 

Let's say you need to communicate with Johnny about something important. But for whatever reason, Johnny doesn't wish to communicate with you. However, Johnny is on good terms with Jimmy and so are you. Why would it not make sense to use Jimmy as a conduit through which you could communicate with Johnny?

 

I think there is problems on both sides and I'm wondering if your (obscenely) high standards particularly relating to housekeeping etc are due to an issue you have regarding bacteria? Or OCD? If a few crumbs on the couch and in the car are your best examples of poor housekeeping it's pretty obvious this issue isn't hers.

I think if you saw what she does - both in the living room and in her car - you wouldn't think it to be unreasonable for one who shares house and car with her to ask her to be a little more careful.

 

Why is she scared to go outside?

That's a very good question. I've asked her and she doesn't give a clear answer or gives a different answer each time I ask. I suspect it's a combination of a couple things or more: 1) she's overly self conscious; 2) she doesn't like being out unless with her friends; 3) she's suffering from depression which is manifested in extreme laziness.