Celebrating the end

[Popsicle]

OMG, please stop talking about me, lol.

[Noideanow]

Specifically what assumptions have I made about Popsicle, precisely.

 

I am simply quoting her own words and pointed out that THINKING someone does not love their wife is not the same as KNOWING that her ex om does not love his wife.

 

I really wanted to hear Popsicles answer because I enjoy reading her postings.

 

and actually Popsicle did not suggest anything about my wife, she was speaking of her OM.

 

You are the one making suggestions.

 

You said: r

 

 

Nevertheless, even if her OM told her that he does not love his wife, the fact that he is with his wife speaks volumes, that is something a lot of OM say to keep the cake coming.

 

If he stayed for finances, then why would Popsicle even care about a guy that stays with a wife he does not love only for financial concerns or even the kids.

 

Studies show kids are happier if unhappy parents divorce. Bad marriages destroy kids.

 

As for whether or not my wife loves me. I can not speak for her, and I would not make that assumption. I just don't know what really goes on in her head. I am not psychic. Are you?

 

We are still together and things are good. That is all I can tell you, now.

 

Is my wife staying for a business partnership. I seriously doubt that based on her financial status. She earns as much as I do, and we both earn more than we could spend in our lifetimes.

 

So, I don't know the answer for sure, but there would be no plausible reason for her to stay for money. And, there is no business partnership. We work in similar but separate fields.

 

So I am not sure where that assumption came from??????

 

But again, my question was directed to Popsicle, based on her posting.

 

i out of time, but im sure you can find your assumptions yourself;) i wrote the other things to provoke you (and to be honest:confused:), but lets say it isnt business for her, it could be just the friendship and the feeling of security it gives?

[Gigi2015]

i out of time, but im sure you can find your assumptions yourself;) i wrote the other things to provoke you (and to be honest:confused:), but lets say it isnt business for her, it could be just the friendship and the feeling of security it gives?

 

 

Define security in this context.

[Liam1]

i out of time, but im sure you can find your assumptions yourself;) i wrote the other things to provoke you (and to be honest:confused:), but lets say it isnt business for her, it could be just the friendship and the feeling of security it gives?

 

I agree with Gigi. Define security. You can't... because even if you do....it will only be your definition of security. It will be an assumption of what security is.

 

Why are you trying to provoke. That is not productive discussion, that is trolling.

 

My wife is very independent financially, intellectually and emotionally. I doubt she needs security. She is brilliant, wealthy and gorgeous. Far better looking than the OW. The OW, BTW, never worked, not in all her 38 years.

 

My friends are always telling me how beautiful my wife is, both men and women. Even when she met me at my new job the lady assistants were gushing about how gorgeous she is.

 

I think she could find another husband in a flash.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Liam1

[ladydesigner]

You blame popsicle for making assumptions yet i cant help but notice quite a few in your postings;)

and a maybe provoking question from me safely sitting behind a computer;) is your wife in love with you too? or could it be as popsicle suggested that she sees it as a business/friendship-partnership- pardon my wording:o

 

Interesting turn here because I can relate to this as a BS. I am not "in-love" with my WH anymore nor do I want to be. The amount of infidelity, lies, and irresponsibility my WH has shown me over the years makes him not a safe partner to me. The False R I experienced was a devastating blow. I place my friendships, kids, job, me above everything including my WS. This is my choice.

 

Many BS's, IMHO, after an A discovery never go back to the way they felt for their WS. Not all but I'm going to say most and a lot of this has to do with how remorseful their WS is and how much work they put back into the M with no relapses of infidelity of course.

[Gigi2015]

I agree with Gigi. Define security. You can't... because even if you do....it will only be your definition of security. It will be an assumption of what security is.

 

Why are you trying to provoke. That is not productive discussion, that is trolling.

 

My wife is very independent financially, intellectually and emotionally. I doubt she needs security. She is brilliant, wealthy and gorgeous. Far better looking than the OW. The OW, BTW, never worked, not in all her 38 years.

 

My friends are always telling me how beautiful my wife is, both men and women. Even when she met me at my new job the lady assistants were gushing about how gorgeous she is.

 

I think she could find another husband in a flash.

 

This is all lovely but--would you still love her if she lost a limb, lost her career, or who knows...got fat..why did you cheat on her to begin with?

[Liam1]

This is all lovely but--would you still love her if she lost a limb, lost her career, or who knows...got fat..why did you cheat on her to begin with?

 

Hi Gigi:

 

I have already answered that question.

 

Here it is again. She lost interest in sex. We discussed it numerous times. One time said laughingly that "'I would rather eat chocolate" and said a lot of woman even in their 30s lose interest in sex.

 

That statement is true based on my research.

 

Her reasons for lack of interest in sex...... Demanding work research, long hours, too tired, etc. I had not lost interest in sex, even though I have a demanding career, long hours and was often too tired.

 

I am not sure what losing a limb or a career or got fat would have to do with whether I would still love her. Of course I would.

 

My point in mentioning my wife's attributes was in response to "Noideanow's" question. It was meant to point out that my wife is not likely staying out of insecurities of any kind. My wife can likely get any man she wants.

 

Along with all her other attributes she is an extremely confidant successful professional.

 

Her looks are what attracted me to her, but it was her personality that I fell in love with.

 

I had no intention of leaving her for the affair partner. The AP was just available and willing and even eager to have an affair.

 

I find, and my counselor pointed this out many times, that a larger proportion of women have trouble separating sex from love.

 

To MOST men, however, according to my counselor, men can compartmentalize better.

 

A man can easily have sex with a women without loving her. He can also love a woman without having sex.

[Noideanow]

I agree with Gigi. Define security. You can't... because even if you do....it will only be your definition of security. It will be an assumption of what security is.

 

Why are you trying to provoke. That is not productive discussion, that is trolling.

 

My wife is very independent financially, intellectually and emotionally. I doubt she needs security. She is brilliant, wealthy and gorgeous. Far better looking than the OW. The OW, BTW, never worked, not in all her 38 years.

 

My friends are always telling me how beautiful my wife is, both men and women. Even when she met me at my new job the lady assistants were gushing about how gorgeous she is.

 

I think she could find another husband in a flash.

 

You focus much on her looks, maybe that's because it's all she has to offer you:confused: and the primary reason you stay with her? what does it matter what your friends say about your wife:confused: the things you write makes me wanna provoke you;) i also think she could find another husband in a flash, a lot of men like you out there:p

[Liam1]

You focus much on her looks, maybe that's because it's all she has to offer you:confused: and the primary reason you stay with her? what does it matter what your friends say about your wife:confused: the things you write makes me wanna provoke you;) i also think she could find another husband in a flash, a lot of men like you out there:p

 

Uhm, we are making assumptions again, are we not?

 

Read Post 132 which is my Response to Gigi.

 

I think you are not actually reading the posts I write.

 

Of course she could find another husband in a flash. Thank you for making my point for me, again.

[Noideanow]

Uhm, we are making assumptions again, are we not?

 

Read Post 132 which is my Response to Gigi.

 

I think you are not actually reading the posts I write.

 

Of course she could find another husband in a flash. Thank you for making my point for me, again.

 

132 and 133, look at the clock;)

feel sorry for you that your wife is not interested in sex:( it seems you cannot both have your wife and have sex, what a dilemma:(

[jenkins95]

132 and 133, look at the clock;)

feel sorry for you that your wife is not interested in sex:( it seems you cannot both have your wife and have sex, what a dilemma:(

 

Hey, come on! I do enjoy your challenging and provocative posts Noidenow, but it's very clear that Liam very much loves his wife and bitterly regrets his affair. It also comes across very clearly that she must love him very much too, although he is careful not to sound presumptuous on here. After all, she has forgiven his affair and from Liam's posts that I have read, it sounds like they are doing really well in reconciliation. It is easy to see how marriages can lose their way a little bit with all the stresses and pressures of life, and sex can temporarily become neglected. Many people here have learned that the hard way.

 

Good to see this thread still going strong guys!

[OneLov]

I spoke too soon. This thread totally went to poop. ??????????

[William]

Yeah, 130-something posts in and the last page or two is appearing markedly departed from the topic, which is this:

 

Would love to hear what other people are looking forward to burying from the past and what they are excited about moving to a new future if your affair has ended

 

Hence, let's get back to that, celebrating the end and moving on, not a rehash and/or forensic analysis of one or sundry affairs. Thanks!

[Noideanow]

A little fresh air and then it can go back on track;)

[SolG]

Hi Gigi:

 

I have already answered that question.

 

Here it is again. She lost interest in sex. We discussed it numerous times. One time said laughingly that "'I would rather eat chocolate" and said a lot of woman even in their 30s lose interest in sex.

 

That statement is true based on my research.

 

Her reasons for lack of interest in sex...... Demanding work research, long hours, too tired, etc. I had not lost interest in sex, even though I have a demanding career, long hours and was often too tired.

 

Liam, if your counsellor is worth their salt there is NO WAY they will let you get away with that explanation! Attributing our actions as a mere response to someone else's is abrogation of responsibility, and other than in cases of duress virtually never reveals the true causal factor. That is because true causal factors for our own actions reside within ourselves.

 

Your W not wanting sex did not cause you to cheat. That was a contextual push factor that increased your propensity to seek sex elsewhere; the choice to translate that propensity into action is about you, not your W. (This is no way absolves her of her responsibility for her actions that contributed to the marital context, but she ultimately has no responsibility for your actions in response.)

 

Nor does the cause lay with your OW who was so willing to accommodate your choice. She was merely the vehicle for you to exercise it. YOUR choice, YOUR actions.

 

You need to dig deeper than that. You need to ask why you gave yourself permission to make the choice. Why was your response to lack of sex with a wonderful woman you love to seek it elsewhere? What was it about not having sex with your W that disturbed you to this extent? Why did the surety of never getting caught--which indicates that you knew that this was not behaviour you endorse--so comforting to you at the time? Why were you not vulnerable enough to reveal whatever depths of whatever you were going through; and why was it is a more palatable choice for you to assuage that vulnerability with easy sex elsewhere?

 

Where were your emotions at, where was your head at in response? How did these things about YOU coalesce into a choice to behave the way you did? What does this reveal about YOU?

 

I don't think you should answer these questions here: they are merely food for thought to hopefully provide some motivation to go beyond the extremely surfacey analysis you've presented here. Below the surface and within yourself is where the real answers lay that can precipitate great understanding and growth.

 

To all of you ending As--whether you're a BS, OW/M or WS--I say don't merely celebrate the end of the A. Celebrate the impetus this can be to learn and grow. And that doesn't happen through blaming or fixating on other people's behaviour, it happens first and foremost through seeking to understand yourself.

 

All the best to you all :-)

Edited February 24, 2016 by SolG

[imperfectangel]

OMG, please stop talking about me, lol.

 

I think he likes you ?

[Doublegold]

"Some OMs and OWs do fall in love with their affair partners. It is rare, but it happens".

 

 

Wrong. It is not rare. What's rare is MM/MW leaving the BS, and BS leaving the M. But you know that

[Doublegold]

Liam, if your counsellor is worth their salt there is NO WAY they will let you get away with that explanation! Attributing our actions as a mere response to someone else's is abrogation of responsibility, and other than in cases of duress virtually never reveals the true causal factor. That is because true causal factors for our own actions reside within ourselves.

 

Your W not wanting sex did not cause you to cheat. That was a contextual push factor that increased your propensity to seek sex elsewhere; the choice to translate that propensity into action is about you, not your W. (This is no way absolves her of her responsibility for her actions that contributed to the marital context, but she ultimately has no responsibility for your actions in response.)

 

Nor does the cause lay with your OW who was so willing to accommodate your choice. She was merely the vehicle for you to exercise it. YOUR choice, YOUR actions.

 

You need to dig deeper than that. You need to ask why you gave yourself permission to make the choice. Why was your response to lack of sex with a wonderful woman you love to seek it elsewhere? What was it about not having sex with your W that disturbed you to this extent? Why did the surety of never getting caught--which indicates that you knew that this was not behaviour you endorse--so comforting to you at the time? Why were you not vulnerable enough to reveal whatever depths of whatever you were going through; and why was it is a more palatable choice for you to assuage that vulnerability with easy sex elsewhere?

 

Where were your emotions at, where was your head at in response? How did these things about YOU coalesce into a choice to behave the way you did? What does this reveal about YOU?

 

I don't think you should answer these questions here: they are merely food for thought to hopefully provide some motivation to go beyond the extremely surfacey analysis you've presented here. Below the surface and within yourself is where the real answers lay that can precipitate great understanding and growth.

 

To all of you ending As--whether you're a BS, OW/M or WS--I say don't merely celebrate the end of the A. Celebrate the impetus this can be to learn and grow. And that doesn't happen through blaming or fixating on other people's behaviour, it happens first and foremost through seeking to understand yourself.

 

All the best to you all :-)

 

 

 

Excellent, insightful and unbiased post SoIG--Thank You.

[lftbehind]

Hey, come on! I do enjoy your challenging and provocative posts Noidenow, but it's very clear that Liam very much loves his wife and bitterly regrets his affair. It also comes across very clearly that she must love him very much too, although he is careful not to sound presumptuous on here. After all, she has forgiven his affair and from Liam's posts that I have read, it sounds like they are doing really well in reconciliation. It is easy to see how marriages can lose their way a little bit with all the stresses and pressures of life, and sex can temporarily become neglected. Many people here have learned that the hard way.

 

Good to see this thread still going strong guys!

 

What people are reacting to is the attitude that the OP has towards his former MOW. He talks about her terribly and it rubs people the wrong way. He makes these posts all of the time. I guess it's good that he's trying to work on his M and his W is willing.

[Liam1]

Hi Soig:

 

William, a moderator, has declared that this thread has gotten off topic.

 

So, as to not diss a moderator, I will not be posting in this thread further.

 

If however you want intelligent discourse about your opinions, please re-post your post in the infidelity section or the marriage section.

 

I thought this was a place for OM and OW to vent about the issues surrounding their affair, and to confront their misconceptions, but I see that it is more a support forum for people who do not want to ask themselves the hard questions you ask.

 

I don't mind answering your questions. Just not here.

 

I agree with most of what you said. However I am not sure you realize that I was responding to a question by GiGi about what precipitated the affair.

 

In affairs their are reasons and excuses. I gave Gigi a reason, that does not mean I accept it as an excuse.

 

But again this forum does not appear to be for people who want to dig deeper and confront themselves or to hear the truth of how and OM or OW may feel about the affair partner once they wake up to reality.

 

 

 

Liam, if your counsellor is worth their salt there is NO WAY they will let you get away with that explanation! Attributing our actions as a mere response to someone else's is abrogation of responsibility, and other than in cases of duress virtually never reveals the true causal factor. That is because true causal factors for our own actions reside within ourselves.

 

Your W not wanting sex did not cause you to cheat. That was a contextual push factor that increased your propensity to seek sex elsewhere; the choice to translate that propensity into action is about you, not your W. (This is no way absolves her of her responsibility for her actions that contributed to the marital context, but she ultimately has no responsibility for your actions in response.)

 

Nor does the cause lay with your OW who was so willing to accommodate your choice. She was merely the vehicle for you to exercise it. YOUR choice, YOUR actions.

 

You need to dig deeper than that. You need to ask why you gave yourself permission to make the choice. Why was your response to lack of sex with a wonderful woman you love to seek it elsewhere? What was it about not having sex with your W that disturbed you to this extent? Why did the surety of never getting caught--which indicates that you knew that this was not behaviour you endorse--so comforting to you at the time? Why were you not vulnerable enough to reveal whatever depths of whatever you were going through; and why was it is a more palatable choice for you to assuage that vulnerability with easy sex elsewhere?

 

Where were your emotions at, where was your head at in response? How did these things about YOU coalesce into a choice to behave the way you did? What does this reveal about YOU?

 

I don't think you should answer these questions here: they are merely food for thought to hopefully provide some motivation to go beyond the extremely surfacey analysis you've presented here. Below the surface and within yourself is where the real answers lay that can precipitate great understanding and growth.

 

To all of you ending As--whether you're a BS, OW/M or WS--I say don't merely celebrate the end of the A. Celebrate the impetus this can be to learn and grow. And that doesn't happen through blaming or fixating on other people's behaviour, it happens first and foremost through seeking to understand yourself.

 

All the best to you all :-)

[Bittersweetie]

To all of you ending As--whether you're a BS, OW/M or WS--I say don't merely celebrate the end of the A. Celebrate the impetus this can be to learn and grow. And that doesn't happen through blaming or fixating on other people's behaviour, it happens first and foremost through seeking to understand yourself.

 

My A was a huge impetus to change myself. I don't know if I would call it a celebration though. Because when the dust settled all that remained was just a huge amount of pain, nothing worth celebrating at all. While I am proud of the person I now am, it was not easy to get to here, I do wish I could've gotten to this place without all the selfish and hurtful choices I made.

[Lovetoohard]

I think the use of the word "celebrate" is being misinterpreted here (and OP, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think it's to commemorate something with the celebratory happiness , as defined in a traditional festive sense. Nothing about an affair, including the aftermath, is happy. It's more of a public acknowledgment of the emancipation from a phase in her life that was emotionally draining and poisonous and after a long, painful process, the resultant re-discovery of herself, her values, and her future.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Lovetoohard

[SolG]

I thought this was a place for OM and OW to vent about the issues surrounding their affair, and to confront their misconceptions, but I see that it is more a support forum for people who do not want to ask themselves the hard questions you ask...

 

...But again this forum does not appear to be for people who want to dig deeper and confront themselves or to hear the truth of how and OM or OW may feel about the affair partner once they wake up to reality.

 

Liam this forum is both! Some posters want support, some want confrontation.... and others the myriad of possibilities in between. So I don't think you should stop posting in this thread because you obviously have value to add from your experience; things that you 'celebrate' related to no longer being in an A.

 

But bear in mind that your lived experience is yours. The OW here are not your OW; in fact very few entered an A with the kind of perspective your's did. So when you broad brush all As with your reality, you in a sense invalidate theirs. And for some on this board their reality is pain and confusion. And it is very very real.

 

That doesn't mean you should flinch or not be confrontational. But a bit of empathy goes a long way.

Edited February 25, 2016 by SolG

[OneLov]

Let's celebrate that we are no longer actively causing and/or contributing to the pain inflicted upon others and ourselves. .

Edited February 25, 2016 by OneLov

[Grey Cloud]

I think the use of the word "celebrate" is being misinterpreted here (and OP, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think it's to commemorate something with the celebratory happiness , as defined in a traditional festive sense. Nothing about an affair, including the aftermath, is happy. It's more of a public acknowledgment of the emancipation from a phase in her life that was emotionally draining and poisonous and after a long, painful process, the resultant re-discovery of herself, her values, and her future.

 

Yep, this is EXACTLY what I meant ^^^

 

Thanks Lovetoohard for summing it up so perfectly.