Celebrating the end

[Grey Cloud]

Good luck and yeah that sucks when me and mm used to text I'd get that though tbh I don't see why he'd have to say that to you on email surely it's normal to not always be able to reply instantly.

 

Seems strange to me but idk your mm if that's normal behaviour from him. Could he be trying to rub your nose in it?

 

We would always email as "safer" then texting. But we could get emails through on our phones and would be checking our emails constantly during the A so it was almost like texting except you couldn't "see" the message instantly on your phone. What he was trying to say is that by his w being around he was "off the radar" and wouldn't be able to respond to any more emails as she always used to have a go at him for being secretive with his phone and being on it constantly.

Seriously, during the a I would check my phone for new emails about 50 times a night. It was ridiculous.

[RRM321]

Seems strange to me but idk your mm if that's normal behaviour from him. Could he be trying to rub your nose in it?

 

I don't think so. He's merely compartmentalized her. It's an affair - a known discretion, so to him it's like sneaking out for a cigarette after he's declared himself a non-smoker. He's not in love with the cigarette, he simply craves the indulgence.

 

She compartmentalizes him the same way, romanticizing a relationship that ignores the reality of who he truly is - married, with wife, family, and other commitments, etc. She denies his objectification to her own detriment.

 

This is what AP never understands - the delusion that an affair really is. For example, the AP felt good when contact restarted. However, as soon as a wife or marriage reference appears the delusion is shattered and reality intrudes. The delusion fails to recognize the UNAVAILABLE reality of the partner.

 

If people would ponder the reality of UNAVAILABLE at the onset of their flirting they would never get into an affair, and it would sure make going NC a whole lot easier.

 

To the OP - the next time the urge to contact him arises start your email by addressing it to "Dear MM and WIFE." If you really want to move on - then you have to train yourself to see and address him as he really is. He's okay with your blindness, with the affair, and with sneaking outside to smoke you. He's okay with you sacrificing and being half the person you could be. You're the one who has to change.

Edited March 3, 2016 by RRM321

[Adoraxx]

My xMM wouldn't even tell me why he 'couldn't' respond. He would just disappear but the thing is, he also didn't respond at times when I knew very well that he was alone at home!!!! So I think for him it was this 'control issue'. He wanted to be in control and he loved making me feel anxious. I even asked him one time: "Why do you read my emails, yet you don't respond?" (we shared an email account) He always came up with a lie like "the battery was dead" or "someone came into the room" (even when he was alone at home) or something else but those were all lies.

 

Just saying.. sometimes it's a control issue for them to be the first to leave the conversation and I really didn't like that about my xMM. He also always wanted to be the first one to walk away/ leave/ go home. If I tried to leave first, he would prolong the conversation until HE could dismiss me. Sooo stupid!!

[jenkins95]

Hey GC, sorry you've had a tough time with NC issues. All quite normal though in the early stages. With each slip up, I think you've realised how damaging it is and how much more determined you are to now stick to it!

 

Each slip up has caused more stress and upset. Yes, the mention of his wife being around.....and that message that she sent him on the networking site. Wow, that must have been like a slap. But at least it's a demonstration that you need to move on.

 

Also, from what you said, it sounds like he perhaps took a few more risks than you did - checking his mails and writing to you when she was around, etc and you said she was very suspicious. Sounds like me - that's how I first got caught out - careless with my phone, taking liberties! Another good reason to stop right now - eventually he might have gone one step too far and be a little too careless.

 

Day 1 again! But I have a feeling that this is the real deal. Proud of your commitment to start again/keep going! Keep posting!

[Lovetoohard]

Grey, I'm sorry for what you're going through. I had a triggering dream a few nights ago and while I thankfully haven't heard from xMM in approximately close to a couple moths, the dream set off a chain reaction of bad feelings that led to some emotional cutting where I was looking at some pics online and a charity fundraising page we're both listed on and that led to feelings of anger, stress, heartache...all the crazy emotions you go through leading up to and after the break-up. I cannot believe that i had spent so much of my time in that deep, dark abyss of misery and a reminder of that, which thankfully only lasted a couple of days, was a great way recall of how awful it was. I wanted to so badly tell him that he really messed me up, but I didn't because it doesn't change the outcome of anything. Thankfully, the worst of those feelings have passed. I guess it was bound to happen because i'd been going strong consistently for a few months now.

 

 

The point I am trying to make is this: I wouldn't necessarily think of it as restarting the NC clock and you being at day 1. I would think of it as a minor flashback into what a horrible place that was and a little reminder to keep you on your current path, which you have been going strong on. I would avoid any further contact with him until you get stronger and uphold your boundaries.

 

Wishing you well...

Edited March 3, 2016 by Lovetoohard

[Lovetoohard]

My xMM wouldn't even tell me why he 'couldn't' respond. He would just disappear but the thing is, he also didn't respond at times when I knew very well that he was alone at home!!!! So I think for him it was this 'control issue'. He wanted to be in control and he loved making me feel anxious. I even asked him one time: "Why do you read my emails, yet you don't respond?" (we shared an email account) He always came up with a lie like "the battery was dead" or "someone came into the room" (even when he was alone at home) or something else but those were all lies.

 

Just saying.. sometimes it's a control issue for them to be the first to leave the conversation and I really didn't like that about my xMM. He also always wanted to be the first one to walk away/ leave/ go home. If I tried to leave first, he would prolong the conversation until HE could dismiss me. Sooo stupid!!

 

Ugh. Horrible reminder of how one-sided, controlling, and emotionally abusive MM/MW's can be. In my case, he was like that too but he would act like a wimp as soon as the W demanded something or called or whatever. Even before we started the A and were just friends, he'd often say stuff like "my W will kill me if I don't do x,y, z" or "I get no respect at home." This is my theory - I think they feel they are not in control of their M and so they feel the need to be in control with with their AP to feel like a man. There was a lot of projecting going on. Oddly, when we'd argue about something, he'd often say something totally ridiculous like "you don't control me" or "you're not my boss," and it would be totally out of the blue and irrelevant to the issue we were arguing about. Thankfully I regained that control by breaking up with him and being in control with most of his attempts to reach out (except for the initial ones where I was still blinded by him). It's really sad that it comes down to power and control. Not words that come up in a healthy relationship.

 

Sorry, Grey. Didn't mean to hijack. But yet another reminder for you on their need for control...broken, broken people!

Edited March 3, 2016 by Lovetoohard

[imsosad]

Oh, GC.

This has got to be hard for you.

It does rewind you to day 1,though. You are picking up where you left off, but stronger and more determined than ever.

I can imagine all this wife talk made you feel bad, but you will use this to remind yourself why you never ever want to contact him again.

This is ALL he has to offer and it is not good enough for you.

I hope you dont mind if i ask how you are feeling in your M right now?

I find that shifting the focus back to our REAL partner helps. Not 100%,as you saw from other pists, but it can balance out some of the pain.

Big hug.

[imperfectangel]

Ugh. Horrible reminder of how one-sided, controlling, and emotionally abusive MM/MW's can be. In my case, he was like that too but he would act like a wimp as soon as the W demanded something or called or whatever. Even before we started the A and were just friends, he'd often say stuff like "my W will kill me if I don't do x,y, z" or "I get no respect at home." This is my theory - I think they feel they are not in control of their M and so they feel the need to be in control with with their AP to feel like a man. There was a lot of projecting going on. Oddly, when we'd argue about something, he'd often say something totally ridiculous like "you don't control me" or "you're not my boss," and it would be totally out of the blue and irrelevant to the issue we were arguing about. Thankfully I regained that control by breaking up with him and being in control with most of his attempts to reach out (except for the initial ones where I was still blinded by him). It's really sad that it comes down to power and control. Not words that come up in a healthy relationship.

 

Sorry, Grey. Didn't mean to hijack. But yet another reminder for you on their need for control...broken, broken people!

 

My mm is the same. Always disappearing never a explanation for it and if I questioned him he acted like it was no big deal. I agree I think it's because they have no control in their "real" life/m and so control us. Even down to when we saw each other it was always mm calling it a day on our time together. It's all for control. He even told me that once but I wasn't sure I could believe it though now I've read this I'm sure it's true

[Popsicle]

My mm is the same. Always disappearing never a explanation for it and if I questioned him he acted like it was no big deal. I agree I think it's because they have no control in their "real" life/m and so control us. Even down to when we saw each other it was always mm calling it a day on our time together. It's all for control. He even told me that once but I wasn't sure I could believe it though now I've read this I'm sure it's true

 

All true! I once made a thread about how I thought xMM felt that he had little control over his wife and his life, yet it was so contrasting that he was so controlling with me. It was like day and night. I guess it was fun having a little fantasy with me.

[Popsicle]

I bet if his wife were completely submissive and accommodating, he would have had fantasies about having a controlling woman/mistress! Some married people are just bored and restless.

[imperfectangel]

All true! I once made a thread about how I thought xMM felt that he had little control over his wife and his life, yet it was so contrasting that he was so controlling with me. It was like day and night. I guess it was fun having a little fantasy with me.

 

 

It's crazy though I'm not sure I'd use the term abuse. I think it's more them trying to manage everything. It's quite sad really poor little things lol

[Grey Cloud]

Oh, GC.

This has got to be hard for you.

It does rewind you to day 1,though. You are picking up where you left off, but stronger and more determined than ever.

I can imagine all this wife talk made you feel bad, but you will use this to remind yourself why you never ever want to contact him again.

This is ALL he has to offer and it is not good enough for you.

I hope you dont mind if i ask how you are feeling in your M right now?

I find that shifting the focus back to our REAL partner helps. Not 100%,as you saw from other pists, but it can balance out some of the pain.

Big hug.

 

I think that is why I'm so annoyed Imsosad because I got sucked back in a bit to the whole thing (totally my fault) when I should have been focusing on my h. Things are better obviously now I'm out of the A but I'm aware of the reasons why I got into the email in the first place (lack of communication, lack of intimacy) so I know it's not going to be suddenly "fixed" overnight but I do love him and I know we can get there. We have just booked a getaway for the two of us (no kids) in June. I can't remember the last time we went away on holiday just the two of us.

[Lovetoohard]

Grey, don't be too hard on yourself for feeling like you got sucked back in a bit. Those temporary spikes in happy feelings from MM's are so addictive and it's especially hard to resist another potential hit when things are a little blah in the real world. That said, at least you recognize the need to keep heading down the path you're on right now, and it definitely won't be an overnight process but it sounds like you and your H are taking the necessary steps to get back to that happy place. So glad you booked a getaway!

[Grey Cloud]

Grey, don't be too hard on yourself for feeling like you got sucked back in a bit. Those temporary spikes in happy feelings from MM's are so addictive and it's especially hard to resist another potential hit when things are a little blah in the real world. That said, at least you recognize the need to keep heading down the path you're on right now, and it definitely won't be an overnight process but it sounds like you and your H are taking the necessary steps to get back to that happy place. So glad you booked a getaway!

 

Thank you SO MUCH Lovetoohard!! I am feeling better and just know deep down this is finally it. I have put in my calendar dates for when I hit NC day 30, 60 and 100. Kind of like a goal to work towards. I have gone through phases over the last couple of weeks where I have been feeling sad, reminiscing over the 'good' times etc. kind of lost my focus a bit about how toxic the whole thing was. Now I want to get my focus back on moving forwards. Thank you for your support, it means a lot

[imsosad]

GC, so glad you're going on holiday with your H, just the two of you.

With time and care, your M will be a thousand times more fullfilling, nurturing and fun than an A can ever be.

Keep going,you are right back on track.

[Grey Cloud]

Seems strange to me but idk your mm if that's normal behaviour from him. Could he be trying to rub your nose in it?

 

 

I have been thinking about this question. I don't think he was trying to rub my nose in it. I think he would genuinely believe that things were better at home for him. Before the A ended he was also in quite a bit of conflict, turmoil and stress. His w was closing in on him. Confronted him about whether he was having an A.

 

 

The months of November and December was when xMM and I were at our "worst" - in terms of physically and becoming more emotionally dependent on each other. We had a lot of work functions on, were hanging out a lot more and self imposed "boundaries" were flying out of the window. We were then heading into a 5 week break over Xmas, New Year and the holiday period. I said we should use this time to break our attachment. He was reluctant. He said he wanted to pick up where we left off when we would see each other again in January. We were both dreading the break and not being able to see each other.

 

 

During the break we kept in LC. I think it is during this period he slowly started to come out of the A fog. He got in touch with me at one stage and said he was trying to relax over the break but couldn't. He felt stressed and his w kept saying he was really grumpy at her all the time. I think the guilt was getting to him. Meanwhile I am just counting down the days until I see him again whereas I think he really started to see everything in a different light. That things couldn't keep continuing the way they were. He started applying for other jobs (which was on the cards anyway), and got one pretty much straight away once we returned to work after the break. We always said when he found another job we would end it.

 

 

As I said before in an earlier post he said that once we made that final decision to end he felt like a weight was lifted off his shoulders. He re-focused back on his w and m and I think she would have subconsciously sensed that he had "come back" to her and wasn't as distracted anymore. He was no longer getting grief from her and suddenly things were all rosy back in his world again. Which led to his statement that "things were better then ever at home". Not necessarily to be cruel but reflective of the full circle he had taken.

 

 

In hindsight, I wish I had used that 5 week break to start NC which I had originally intended. In the end, he used that time to reflect and reassess and realise that what had started off as fun was now becoming all too much to manage. Trying to please two women, trying to live a double life when his w was becoming aware of "something" through her own intuition.

 

 

Sorry for the long explanation, but it also helps me by writing it all down. I think we are always left with a lot of unanswered questions and also question ourselves continually as to why it all happened and why we allowed it to happen. I don't know if we ever feel comfortable with the answers and the explanations which is why we analyze everything so much!!!

[Adoraxx]

Ugh. Horrible reminder of how one-sided, controlling, and emotionally abusive MM/MW's can be. In my case, he was like that too but he would act like a wimp as soon as the W demanded something or called or whatever. Even before we started the A and were just friends, he'd often say stuff like "my W will kill me if I don't do x,y, z" or "I get no respect at home." This is my theory - I think they feel they are not in control of their M and so they feel the need to be in control with with their AP to feel like a man. There was a lot of projecting going on. Oddly, when we'd argue about something, he'd often say something totally ridiculous like "you don't control me" or "you're not my boss," and it would be totally out of the blue and irrelevant to the issue we were arguing about. Thankfully I regained that control by breaking up with him and being in control with most of his attempts to reach out (except for the initial ones where I was still blinded by him). It's really sad that it comes down to power and control. Not words that come up in a healthy relationship.

 

Sorry, Grey. Didn't mean to hijack. But yet another reminder for you on their need for control...broken, broken people!

 

Wow, yes, I totally feel that way too : that they don't feel in control of their M and that they need to feel in control with their AP to feel like a man! xMM's W is very controlling and my xMM made those kind of comments too (to me) that you mentioned, like: "You can't claim me" or "I'm not your dog". Totally out of the blue and irrelevant!

Edited March 4, 2016 by Adoraxx

[jenkins95]

I have been thinking about this question. I don't think he was trying to rub my nose in it. I think he would genuinely believe that things were better at home for him. Before the A ended he was also in quite a bit of conflict, turmoil and stress. His w was closing in on him. Confronted him about whether he was having an A.

 

 

The months of November and December was when xMM and I were at our "worst" - in terms of physically and becoming more emotionally dependent on each other. We had a lot of work functions on, were hanging out a lot more and self imposed "boundaries" were flying out of the window. We were then heading into a 5 week break over Xmas, New Year and the holiday period. I said we should use this time to break our attachment. He was reluctant. He said he wanted to pick up where we left off when we would see each other again in January. We were both dreading the break and not being able to see each other.

 

 

During the break we kept in LC. I think it is during this period he slowly started to come out of the A fog. He got in touch with me at one stage and said he was trying to relax over the break but couldn't. He felt stressed and his w kept saying he was really grumpy at her all the time. I think the guilt was getting to him. Meanwhile I am just counting down the days until I see him again whereas I think he really started to see everything in a different light. That things couldn't keep continuing the way they were. He started applying for other jobs (which was on the cards anyway), and got one pretty much straight away once we returned to work after the break. We always said when he found another job we would end it.

 

 

As I said before in an earlier post he said that once we made that final decision to end he felt like a weight was lifted off his shoulders. He re-focused back on his w and m and I think she would have subconsciously sensed that he had "come back" to her and wasn't as distracted anymore. He was no longer getting grief from her and suddenly things were all rosy back in his world again. Which led to his statement that "things were better then ever at home". Not necessarily to be cruel but reflective of the full circle he had taken.

 

 

In hindsight, I wish I had used that 5 week break to start NC which I had originally intended. In the end, he used that time to reflect and reassess and realise that what had started off as fun was now becoming all too much to manage. Trying to please two women, trying to live a double life when his w was becoming aware of "something" through her own intuition.

 

 

Sorry for the long explanation, but it also helps me by writing it all down. I think we are always left with a lot of unanswered questions and also question ourselves continually as to why it all happened and why we allowed it to happen. I don't know if we ever feel comfortable with the answers and the explanations which is why we analyze everything so much!!!

 

Hi Grey Cloud, how are you feeling today?

 

It's really interesting to read this post and I definitely see myself and my own thoughts and actions in many of the thoughts and actions that both you and your MM had. Once again, I can't help remarking to myself how similar our situations can often be and how many affairs follow the same basic path in terms of key events/timescales.

 

Things start of as great fun and eventually are replaced by neediness, stress, doubts, guilt, regret, frustration and more......and we wonder how on earth we ever got to that point! We also find it is very hard to break free from it all.

 

Proud of you GC - well done for setting those targets on your calendar - great idea. I will be having a 100 day NC party next week - I hope you can make it. By party, I mean launching a thread! I wish we could have a real party!

[Popsicle]

He could tell me that things "are better then ever at home" but his w would be destroyed if she knew the reasons why he was suddenly committed to the m again.

 

And what reasons are those?

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Grey Cloud, how are you feeling today?

 

It's really interesting to read this post and I definitely see myself and my own thoughts and actions in many of the thoughts and actions that both you and your MM had. Once again, I can't help remarking to myself how similar our situations can often be and how many affairs follow the same basic path in terms of key events/timescales.

 

Things start of as great fun and eventually are replaced by neediness, stress, doubts, guilt, regret, frustration and more......and we wonder how on earth we ever got to that point! We also find it is very hard to break free from it all.

 

Proud of you GC - well done for setting those targets on your calendar - great idea. I will be having a 100 day NC party next week - I hope you can make it. By party, I mean launching a thread! I wish we could have a real party!

 

I'll definitely be there in spirit at your 100 day NC party next week! That's a great milestone. Then on June 10 we can have my 100 day NC party which will be almost halfway before we have our massive Christmas LS party!! The party to end all parties

 

I feel so much better today. I think I had to go through the whole relapsing NC thing to get to the 'genuine NC' phase.

 

Can I ask if your W got suspicious at all prior to D-day? Did she ever question you being more secretive, on your phone more, being distracted etc? My H never got suspicious but I think women generally are more intuitive and instinctively know when something is 'different'.

[Grey Cloud]

And what reasons are those?

 

The fact that he cheated and was unfaithful. In the end whether it was guilt or him getting too confused about the whole situation made him pull his head in and recommit to the M. From his w's perspective she is maybe thinking he is more attentive, more loving etc without knowing the real reasons as to what caused him to suddenly change (from being grumpy, distant and distracted when in the A). Does that make sense?

[jenkins95]

Wow, yes, I totally feel that way too : that they don't feel in control of their M and that they need to feel in control with their AP to feel like a man! xMM's W is very controlling and my xMM made those kind of comments too (to me) that you mentioned, like: "You can't claim me" or "I'm not your dog". Totally out of the blue and irrelevant!

 

It's a really interesting conversation that you guys have been having about this issue of control. I read all the posts with interest and thought about it from my perspective as an MM. Instinctively, I said to myself that no, that's not me - nothing about my affair was about control. But wait a minute.........

 

Definitely one of the key issues that made me discontented in my marriage was feeling that I had been the one who made nearly all of the compromises and that we are living "her" dream, not "my" dream, or "our" dream. I often felt that I was just a passenger in a marriage that was planned, orchestrated and organised by her. No blame here - that discussion is for another thread.

 

Then I think of my A. Whilst I am not at all a typical kind of control freak and am actually quite passive and a conflict avoider, when I think about it, I did control the A to dome degree. It was usually me who dictated more than her when we could/couldn't meet and I expected her to just understand and accept it if I suddenly had to go or couldn't make an arrangement we made. Also, at the end when I tried to end, I knew that it wouldn't be nice or pretty and that it would be heartbreaking for both of us, but I think I probably expected the AP to just "lay down" and accept that the game was up, understand the reasons why and just move on. This sounds so cold and horrible and I didn't literally think that...or act in that way, but I think it was my subconscious expectation.

 

So, on reflection, yes! You are probably right, and I DO fit into that pattern you describe. It's amazing what you can learn here. You are helping me understand aspects my own affair that I hadn't really considered and I really appreciate it!

 

One word of defence on behalf of the MM in all of the above. Yes, it's horrible how the balance of power is and that the MM seems to have most control, and even as the MM I was very uncomfortable with it myself. But, having said that, any OW signing up to an affair with a MM must surely expect a certain degree of this and that he is not going to be available at the click of a finger - is that fair?

 

This all demonstrates how things can get difficult after the first few months of the "honeymoon period" of the affair. It is light and fun a dreamy at first and demands and expectations placed on each partner by the other are low, but bonds and dependencies develop, expectations set in, we want more from each other......and it becomes a stressful, frustrating mess. Why do we do it, guys!?!

 

Have a good day all, and keep this discussion going - it's interesting!

[Popsicle]

The fact that he cheated and was unfaithful. In the end whether it was guilt or him getting too confused about the whole situation made him pull his head in and recommit to the M. From his w's perspective she is maybe thinking he is more attentive, more loving etc without knowing the real reasons as to what caused him to suddenly change (from being grumpy, distant and distracted when in the A). Does that make sense?

 

Ahh, yes, it makes sense.

 

You mentioned that your MM was grumpy with his wife. Mine was too. And he was grumpy with me too sometimes. I never understood that, but I think it was the sense of feeling out of control and frustrated that he could not have everything he wanted and could not reconcile the situation in a most optimal way for him, made him grumpy.

[Grey Cloud]

Ahh, yes, it makes sense.

 

You mentioned that your MM was grumpy with his wife. Mine was too. And he was grumpy with me too sometimes. I never understood that, but I think it was the sense of feeling out of control and frustrated that he could not have everything he wanted and could not reconcile the situation in a most optimal way for him, made him grumpy.

 

Yeah, I don't know how many times my xMM said to be "I'm just tired" or "I'm just stressed". He didn't know how to deal with the sense of feeling out of control so they were his fallback reasons. I have no doubt he told his w the same things in answer to her questions about his grumpiness! Of course this wasn't an issue in the first 3 months! He was upbeat, energized and seemed excited. Bloody limerance!! After then the stress set in....

[Popsicle]

Yeah, I don't know how many times my xMM said to be "I'm just tired" or "I'm just stressed". He didn't know how to deal with the sense of feeling out of control so they were his fallback reasons. I have no doubt he told his w the same things in answer to her questions about his grumpiness! Of course this wasn't an issue in the first 3 months! He was upbeat, energized and seemed excited. Bloody limerance!! After then the stress set in....

 

Right and that's when it's even more bizarre when they come back....