Celebrating the end

[minimariah]

Jenkins... you remind me so, so much of my xH -- so i'll try to chime in and offer a different perspective. i apologize if you didn't want comments on your situation... i find this discussion really interesting and i think we can all help each other out by reading different views and opinions.

 

And I am living proof that you can love more than one person at once.

 

the thing is... that was never questionable. of course we can love more than one person at once: we love our spouses, our parents, children, friends... all at once, no? but you're also the living proof that we cannot be IN love with more than one person at once and THAT is what really counts. even when we are in love with more than just one person... there is always someone we love more. always.

 

when i first got on this Forum, i was really surprised. in my culture, in my world... people recognize the difference between romantic love and comfortable, familiar love. it's either ALL IN or nothing with us. passionate love, romantic love where you're absolutely besotted with your partner, where you're attracted emotionally, sexually and intellectually to your partner is the only love that i personally consider LOVE. i don't have the ned to discuss any other kind of love when talking about romantic relationship.

 

the kind of love that comes as a result of knowing someone and spending many years with them, having a LOT in common with them, having a long history with them... that's the kind of love that, in a romantic relationship, simply becomes irrelevant.

 

i noticed on this forum that folks would rather have their limb cut off than straight up admit that they don't love their spouse (not saying that's the case with you, i'm speaking in general) - and it's where the entire "i love you but i'm not in love with you" phenomenon came from. for some reason, it's incredibly hard for them to admit that they don't love their spouse, they have this need to add up a bunch of other feelings... that really aren't love at all. not the kind of love that should be present in a romantic relationship. even when divorcing, they'll STILL insist that they love their spouse.

 

then i realized that, IF folks admit that to themselves... the reconciliation wouldn't be possible. at all. there is this profound fear present... because what WILL happen when you realize that you don't love your spouse? that you maybe never loved your spouse? that you're maybe wasting your time with your spouse for... what? children, comfort, history? those are some earthshattering conclusions... what happens IF or WHEN they cannot be drowned anymore? when you wake up one day and realize the only reason you stayed married was because it was socially acceptable?

 

maybe your AP is the one you should be with. maybe that's the kind of love that will last. and if you were dating... not married, without kids, without history and all of that other stuff... you would absolutely choose to be with your AP. that's the scary truth that you're really afraid of.

 

And of course, when you have that, the more mature, unconditional love that has built up over decades with your spouse can pale into insignificance in the heat of the affair fog.

 

these words really struck a cord with me - they were literally the same words my xH used to describe love he had for me. and back then, he was FURIOUS when i told him straight up that he just described comfort and care to me... not love. because that doesn't sound like love to me. i don't want to be loved that way; i want to be loved the way you described you loved your AP. and back then, he refused to believe me when i told him that unconditional romantic love doesn't exist. this love, that you're describing, is conditioned with TIME spent with your spouse.

 

and now... years later - he can finally admit the truth that he couldn't while there was still chance of reconciliation and when he still wanted our marriage to work out. and the truth is... that's not love. that's care. that's how you love a friend you've spent years living in the same house with. that's how you love someone you have a loooooooooooong history with... but that's not how you love a romantic partner. at all. and now a new question comes along - can you even love your spouse that way, did you ever love your spouse the way you love your AP?

 

As a former OW, I'm mourning the fact that exMM and I never got the chance to try and develop that more mature love. I know this is all part of the grieving process.

 

maybe you did. mature love doesn't have to do much with time, it has everything to do with mature people.

Edited February 18, 2016 by minimariah

[Noideanow]

Minimariah:) couldnt help but write here, you really surpriced me, wow you have thougt it out well, so well witten:)

[jenkins95]

Wow, great posts guys! Fantastic to find so many interesting, varied and well thought-out posts from so many different viewpoints.

 

Just about to start a 14 how night-shift at work ouch! But can't wait to read, re-read and respond to all this very soon. It's a really stimulating and valuable (at least to me!) Conversation we are developing here. Keep them coming guys. Back soon!

[Cymbeline]

't got on this Forum, i was really surprised. in my culture, in my world... people recognize the difference between romantic love and comfortable, familiar love. it's either ALL IN or nothing with us. passionate love, romantic love where you're absolutely besotted with your partner, where you're attracted emotionally, sexually and intellectually to your partner is the only love that i personally consider LOVE. i don't have the ned to discuss any other kind of love when talking about romantic relationship. '

 

But if this definition constitutes marital love, then does it not follow that marriages cannot - or can very rarely - then last beyond a few years?

[Liam1]

 

 

the thing is... that was never questionable. of course we can love more than one person at once: we love our spouses, our parents, children, friends... all at once, no? but you're also the living proof that we cannot be IN love with more than one person at once and THAT is what really counts. even when we are in love with more than just one person... there is always someone we love more. always.

 

Good point. That is why breaking our vow to forsake all others and seeking an affair is so dangerous.

 

The thing with an affair though is that it can not compare to true companionate love.

 

Yes, after years of marriage the sex becomes less exciting. But in an affair it is easy to confuse the desire for the new and exciting sex with true love.

 

In reality perhaps one is not in love with the OW but in love with the sexual excitement.

 

i noticed on this forum that folks would rather have their limb cut off than straight up admit that they don't love their spouse (not saying that's the case with you, i'm speaking in general) - and it's where the entire "i love you but i'm not in love with you" phenomenon came from. for some reason, it's incredibly hard for them to admit that they don't love their spouse, they have this need to add up a bunch of other feelings... that really aren't love at all. not the kind of love that should be present in a romantic relationship. even when divorcing, they'll STILL insist that they love their spouse.

 

My marriage counselor opined that a lot of people settle for someone they don't really love in order to marry.

 

I think that is sad and wrong. If you never loved your fiance 'fess up and refuse to marry.

 

Having an affair when you finally meet the person you love, after marrying the wrong person, is a much easier path.

 

But dating while you are married is deceptive. If a person has not found someone they love, then they should not marry until they do.

 

then i realized that, IF folks admit that to themselves... the reconciliation wouldn't be possible. at all. there is this profound fear present... because what WILL happen when you realize that you don't love your spouse? that you maybe never loved your spouse?

 

Again, the issue is to refuse to settle for someone you don't love. Stay single and keep looking.

 

 

maybe your AP is the one you should be with. maybe that's the kind of love that will last. and if you were dating... not married, without kids, without history and all of that other stuff... you would absolutely choose to be with your AP. that's the scary truth that you're really afraid of.

 

IMO, many times a long married person is confusing infatuation and lust with love. That is why very few marriages born of an affair survive, long term.

 

Also, I find that a lot of people who are pining after their affair partner, never really had lived in the real world with the affair partner. It's easy to fall in love.

 

these words really struck a cord with me - they were literally the same words my xH used to describe love he had for me. and back then, he was FURIOUS when i told him straight up that he just described comfort and care to me... not love. because that doesn't sound like love to me. i don't want to be loved that way; i want to be loved the way you described you loved your AP. and back then, he refused to believe me when i told him that unconditional romantic love doesn't exist. this love, that you're describing, is conditioned with TIME spent with your spouse.

 

I guess everyone has a different concept of love. But I do think that a mature person can discern whether or not they love the person they are choosing to marry.

 

and now... years later - he can finally admit the truth that he couldn't while there was still chance of reconciliation and when he still wanted our marriage to work out. and the truth is... that's not love. that's care. that's how you love a friend you've spent years living in the same house with. that's how you love someone you have a loooooooooooong history with... but that's not how you love a romantic partner. at all. and now a new question comes along - can you even love your spouse that way, did you ever love your spouse the way you love your AP?

 

Some people confuse romance with love. Romance in a marriage waxes as wanes with the level of responsibility in the couple's life, IMO.

 

A long term marriage can never be all flower, chocolates and romance 24/7, not if the marriage is in the real world. Responsibilities intrude and can temporarily derail romantic feelings.

 

An affair can never compare to a marriage and comparing your affair partner who is really like a perennial first date, is not mature or fair, IMO.

 

Dr. Joyce Brothers a psychologist from the 50s, wrote a book about the large percentage of her men clients who had affairs, and after they either divorced their spouse or were kicked out. They were almost always within two years into being with the OW, living in the real world with her.

 

She claimed they were back in her office lamenting about the huge mistake they made and hoping for suggestions on how to fix things with their spouse.

 

Even those who told their spouses they loved them but were not in love with them, after a dose or reality living in the real world with their OW realized that they were not in love with the OW, they were in LUST with her.

 

When reality finally broke through, they were filled with regret because typically after leaving for an OW, the marriage was not reparable, sadly.

 

If you can find the book it's an interesting read.

[Popsicle]

That was a great post, mimimariah. The anthropologist Helen Fisher says there are different types of love, which I too believe. The thing is the type of love that you describe in marriage as comfort and caring is enough for some people. It's even ideal for an aromantic. For married partners who have been in affairs, it's just a question of them deciding if they can live the rest of their lives with that type of love. My mind always goes back to this: if they were living with it before the affair, with no complaints (this does not include unexpressed complaints), then with enough time, they will be able to get back to living with it again just fine. The key is how they felt before the affair.

 

I tend to think that people cheat because they are missing something in their marriage, but after the affair, they may decide that what they are missing is not all that important anyway, and that they can live without it (like they were before), or more hopeful, that they can make their marriage improve and get what they are missing from their spouse.

[Popsicle]

I'd also like to add, mimimariah, that if I were in the position you were in, I would have made the same choice you did.

[minimariah]

The thing with an affair though is that it can not compare to true companionate love.(...) But in an affair it is easy to confuse the desire for the new and exciting sex with true love. (...) In reality perhaps one is not in love with the OW but in love with the sexual excitement.

 

oh, absolutely.

 

but this depends on the experience -- if a MM, for example, never really loved or cared for his other woman... in that situation, the affair will be insignificant in his life and something that cannot be compared to a long term relationship or marriage.

 

i commented on Jenkins and his situation - he did fall in love with his other woman and didn't really have a happy or fulfilling marriage prior to the affair (something that was also acknowledged by his wife; if i remember correctly). to him, affair WAS real. with REAL emotions. to him, it was love. will he, in a couple of years, wake up and realize it was all just sexual excitement? that's possible. but what if he doesn't?

 

my point was: for MANY, the affair WAS real. that love was real and it goes beyond just sexual excitement - especially for strong EAs where there was little to no sex.

 

in order to reconcile, i see both MMs and BWs minimizing the importance of the affair and the feelings in it. and i get it because without that... there would be no reconciliation. too many bitter pills to swallow.

 

My marriage counselor opined that a lot of people settle for someone they don't really love in order to marry.

 

i agree. but i don't think a lot of people are aware of that in the moment they decide to marry. most folks marry in their twenties and usually have their affairs in their fourties or later - that's a lot of time that includes growing up and changing.

 

and it can happen that you marry someone in your twenties, for example. and you LOVE them. they're your The One, you're sure about that. and that can change in ten, twenty years. you just... fall out of love. your relationship turns out to be the one with an expiration date but now you're married to that person with a bunch of history and children. and you really don't wanto anyone to hurt because of your actions and something that's, in it's core, uncertain. because now that you know that it is possible to stop loving someone, you're scared to even give it a try with the AP because... what chances does THAT have? if your The One from XY years ago stopped being The One after all.

 

But dating while you are married is deceptive. If a person has not found someone they love, then they should not marry until they do.

 

this sounds great in theory - in practice, people would much rather marry then grow old and alone and possibly childless. years are going, you find yourself at 35 years old and you settle for someone who seems like your best partner. and you think that's really it. no one settles with the thought of finding someone better - people settle because they think, they are convinced that they WON'T find someone better.

 

one thing i think happens REALLY often -- people having affairs and dumping each other while they're still dating and in relationship. around 90% of marriages i know started out while someone was still dating another person. and it makes sense... these days, EVERYONE is dating someone. what are the chances of two people meeting, with electric chemistry and perfect love and they're both single? slim to none., especially if you're all older than 25.

 

But I do think that a mature person can discern whether or not they love the person they are choosing to marry.

 

sure but like i said - that love doesn't need to last. love does die out.

 

A long term marriage can never be all flower, chocolates and romance 24/7, not if the marriage is in the real world. Responsibilities intrude and can temporarily derail romantic feelings.

 

of course but love needs to be a constant. to me, true love is when we LOVE and want to stay together during our real life hard icky moments. when love fades away because life broke us... then it just means we weren't that strong as partners anyway.

 

An affair can never compare to a marriage and comparing your affair partner who is really like a perennial first date, is not mature or fair, IMO.

 

depends on the experience. to many, affair was absolutely stronger than anything marriage ever offered - i don't think it's fair to belittle affair to just some kind of passing moment of passion... i think for most, it's really much more than that.

 

She claimed they were back in her office lamenting about the huge mistake they made and hoping for suggestions on how to fix things with their spouse.

 

my experiences are different -- i work with a lot of MMs -- those who left their spouses, rarely come back. they either stick it out with the OW or they move on to someone new. when they DO come back... the issue of them not loving their spouse remains because they rarely come back for love.

 

But if this definition constitutes marital love, then does it not follow that marriages cannot - or can very rarely - then last beyond a few years?

 

not at all -- marriages last for MANY reasons; comfortable life, children, an entire life built with the spouse... just because a marriage lasts, it does not mean that it's full of love.

 

not sure if i answered your question.

[Cymbeline]

not sure if i answered your question.

 

Well partly - you seem to be suggesting that marriages which endure, do so for reasons other than love?

[minimariah]

Well partly - you seem to be suggesting that marriages which endure, do so for reasons other than love?

 

no, not at all. i was suggesting that long marriage doesn't necessarily mean long lasting love. sure, some marriages endure for love but others endure for XY other reasons.

 

how long a relationship or a marriage lasts, to me, won't tell anything about LOVE -- i won't see a couple who's been together for 25 years and conclude that their love must be magnificent. that's what i meant; people stay married for a lot of reasons, how can we (as outsiders) know if LOVE is one of them?

[Doublegold]

mimimirah and popsicle just want to say your posts are so well thought out, honest and wise.

 

Thank you.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Doublegold

[minimariah]

For married partners who have been in affairs, it's just a question of them deciding if they can live the rest of their lives with that type of love. My mind always goes back to this: if they were living with it before the affair, with no complaints (this does not include unexpressed complaints), then with enough time, they will be able to get back to living with it again just fine.

 

depends -- the catch is... once you had a taste of that other love, can you really go back and be satisfied? when you know what's out there? when you've experienced that other love you've been missing? maybe you had it with your spouse and you're excited to have it again with someone. maybe you never had it with your spouse. who knows?

 

but can you really go back to something that wasn't enough for you in the first place? in order to do that and actually live a good life... i think a lot of denial and fake it until you make it is needed.

 

I tend to think that people cheat because they are missing something in their marriage, but after the affair, they may decide that what they are missing is not all that important anyway, and that they can live without it (like they were before), or more hopeful, that they can make their marriage improve and get what they are missing from their spouse.

 

i agree, Pop. i also think that most people cheat because there's something missing in their marriage - and that's not a shot at the BS. it doesn't need to be anyone's fault, some relationships simply have an expiration date and they come to an end.

 

BUT that's only my opinion based on my limited experiences. i can be totally wrong.

Edited February 18, 2016 by minimariah

[OneLov]

Wow. I must say this is by far the most interesting thread I've read on LS. This is a fabulous discussion about such complex emotions. Most threads at this point devolve into mind-numbing bickering and insults. As others have said, the posts are very well written and complete. I love when mature people can discuss their ideas, feelings, and experiences in a non-hostile or threatening manner. Thank you all for giving me something fresh and inspiring to read.

[Liam1]

depends on the experience. to many, affair was absolutely stronger than anything marriage ever offered - i don't think it's fair to belittle affair to just some kind of passing moment of passion... i think for most, it's really much more than that.

 

Well, perhaps for some. But my point is that how can they know if they love the OW or OM when they do not live in the real world with them?

 

Maybe it's just infatuation, limerance and lust. An affair is not even akin to a real dating situation because it is largely hidden from the real world, if one or both are married to others.

 

I think that some THINK their affair is unique, special and "much more than that" and then find out too late that it was just lust in the dust.

 

Once a man Leaves for an OW the marriage would be almost impossible to repair.

 

Yes, they move onto someone new because they realize the affair partner when seen in the light of real life, is not who they want to spend their entire lives with.

 

How can a person in an affair that does not exist out in the open possibly judge whether or not the OW/OM would be suitable marriage material?

 

when they DO come back... the issue of them not loving their spouse remains because they rarely come back for love.

I don't believe anyone in their right mind who left their spouse after an affair and was happily out on their own would come back if they did not love their spouse.

 

I had an affair, but the OW was not in my mind in any way comparable to my wife, ever. She was just eager and available and she swore up and down that she never wanted to leave her marriage. That change when I ended things.

 

I am presently in a situation where my ex OW is stalking my wife and attempting to rekindle with me, three years after I ended the affair.

 

The words you wrote that I quoted are words my ex Ow has told my wife. She has claimed to my wife that I only broke off the affair because of money.

 

Believe me, if I did not love my wife, no amount of money would allow me to continue the marriage.

 

Your mileage may vary, but In my situation my OW is projecting her own feelings. She is not in love with her husband and only staying with him because none of the OM she had affairs with wanted to leave their marriage to marry her.

 

I am not the only affair partner she stalked. She stalked at least one prior AP until he became very nasty toward her, according to her. She also constantly complained about his wife and wanted to know what the wife had that she did not?

 

She stays in her marriage because she is financially dependent on her husband.

 

She refuses to believe that I stayed with my wife for love. Hence the continuous attempts to rekindle with me and to hurt my wife by manufacturing things in her own mind.

 

For some reason she needs to believe she was more to me than an affair partner and someone I lusted after but did not love.

 

With that said, I can see how someone can think they are in love with an affair partner.

 

My affair was all about sex and fun. We never talked about work or bills or real world stuff.

 

Now, that I broke it off, I am only now finally seeing the real personality of the OW.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Liam1
typo

[minimariah]

But my point is that how can they know if they love the OW or OM when they do not live in the real world with them?

 

depends what living in the real world means to you -- you have to take into consideration that affairs are rarely totally hidden. usually, someone else knows about them - someone from MM's or OW's friends & family. the only component of the real world that's missing is living together, dealing with bills and your usual every day ups and downs. and that's the component that many other normal relationships are missing, too.

 

i think that, most of the time, affairs are stuck... somewhere in between. not completely in the real world and not completely in the fantasy. they're sometimes permanently stuck in the 1st stage of our usual dating and the flaw in those kind of relationships is that they rarely grow or develop. you either have high ups and lows OR they stagnate in one supermegahappy phase. that's why the passion in many affairs is able to last that long; keep in mind that the entire taboo of an affair is an actual turn on for many. add a little Romeo and Juliet flavour and there you have it! when you remove all of the drama and exotic part - the relationship can simply be slowly killed by bills and pressures and boredom of your day to day life.

 

BUT folks never really drastically change - the dynamic of their relationship and their circumstances do. i'll take your OW as an example - she didn't change because of an affair. she was always like that - it just took you some time to notice. and even if it weren't for an affair - if you dated her casually as a single lad - the same thing would have happened. affairs are not special in that sense - we start dating as single people and we spend some time and we think how perfect they are for us... the more time we spend with them, we truly get to know them. and from there - we either love them MORE or LESS. in that sense, affairs are very much real. you spend time and get to know your AP - that relationship may survive in the real world... or not. just like every other relationship, it doesn't have anything to do with it being an affair. the only difference - it takes longer in the affair. and you'd probably see your OW's true face earlier if your relationship allowed you to spend more time with her.

 

so during the affair - you see your AP as real as they are. those moments you spend with them are as real as they were if you spent time with your AP dating in that beginning phase when you're really busy with life, when you don't have much time for anything more than an hour of hot sex and conversation a day.

 

affairs are a very complicated phenomenon. people know it's wrong. yet, they do it. it's the biggest taboo when it comes to love in general and folks shy away from talking about it. i also think the percentage of those who leave for their APs is higher than official statistic - remember, folks who had an affair won't really talk about it. especially those who are still happy with their APs and established a family with them... trust me, they won't tell a word about an affair. ESPECIALLY if the affair managed to stay in the dark. so take those statistics with a huge grain of salt.

 

How can a person in an affair that does not exist out in the open possibly judge whether or not the OW/OM would be suitable marriage material?

 

why couldn't they? like i said before, the only component of real life that's missing is life together. being out in the open doesn't necessarily mean in real life. you don't have to be out in the open to know if someone is a suitable match for you - that means that you need approval of the outside world, no?

 

not to mention that many affairs ARE out in the open. APs know each other's family and friends and hang around them often. some folks even live together, those who work in different cities and countries. i mean... will your uncle and grandma and you being present at your family's BBQ really make your relationship any more REAL? no, it will just make it more socially acceptable.

 

I don't believe anyone in their right mind who left their spouse after an affair and was happily out on their own would come back if they did not love their spouse.

 

that's the key -- those folks are usually NOT happily out on their own. they're alone, single and missing their family and the life they had before the affair -- they're usually full of shame and resentment because it turned out they left their married life for nothing, they lost the game. postaffair relationships are under extreme pressure - folks who survive that inital stage usually last. those who don't, fall apart soon after they're out in the open. MANY times they fall apart due to family problems (children not adapting well and not accepting the AP) - even though the love is very real and present.

 

you're married, right? so your wife comes to you and she tells you - Liam... i met Joe and me and Joe are about to be together, i love him and this marriage is done. so she moves out and in about two years, she comes back - claiming she loves you, after all. you're stuck with a doubt: did she come back because it's better to be with someone you at least like than alone OR because she suddenly realized she loved YOU all along? how can you know that for sure?

 

I had an affair, but the OW was not in my mind...

 

in that case, your situation is different than Jenkins. you weren't in love with your OW and never wanted to be with her outside of your marriage. you have to take into consideration that we're all writing from our own perspectives: if you were in love with the other woman, your own would've probably been a lot different.

 

She refuses to believe that I stayed with my wife for love.

 

can you blame her?

 

this will come out super harsh but please, bare with me - i wish you no harm. i apologize in advance. it looks like this from where i'm standing: you cheated on your wife. you lied to her and brought her great pain, damaged your marriage. and for what? it looks like, for some meaningless sex. so from the OW's point of view - how can you possibly LOVE someone you are able to hurt so much for... basically no reason at all? shouldn't your love for your wife be stronger than that? that's how it probably looks from the OW's perspective.

 

it's very hard to make "peace" between those two: adultery and love for the one you're cheating on. and lastly... how do you know that you're staying for your wife out of love? at the end of the day, you're married and have kids. those are strong factors that, without a doubt, influence your decisions. the only way to know for sure is to totally remove those factors - which is pretty much impossible.

Edited February 18, 2016 by minimariah

[Noideanow]

Minimariah, didnt think it could get any better but you just rock it:cool: i just clap my hands and Shake my head in avement, if Im making myself clear:) you just speak the truth and its so beautiful:)

Edited February 18, 2016 by Noideanow

[Grey Cloud]

Do you really feel like your affair was a mistake? What would you do different if you could go back in time, was the affair partner a person you loved or just a distraction:o? (Jenk, greyc)

 

My affair will always be a mistake because it was the wrong thing to do. I was not in love with my AP even though I cared for him and valued his friendship. I was in a major rut with my H when the affair started. I resented him and we weren't having sex. I thought that I loved him but was no longer in love with him. My affair was primarily emotional and I was getting the emotional validation I needed during the affair. When it turned more physical my AP and I both realised we were getting into deep and we had to stop for the sake of our marriages If I could go back in time I would have worked on the issues with my H rather then turning to someone else. Because it's just a temporary escape! The issues are still going to remain unless you deal with them in the first place.

[Grey Cloud]

I tend to think that people cheat because they are missing something in their marriage, but after the affair, they may decide that what they are missing is not all that important anyway, and that they can live without it (like they were before), or more hopeful, that they can make their marriage improve and get what they are missing from their spouse.

 

This ^^^.

 

This sums it up for my situation perfectly. I decided as a result of the affair to improve my marriage and get what was missing from my spouse.

[Grey Cloud]

Jenkins - you are awesome! So perceptive and caring. Thank you for thinking I am one of the ones that will fully recover. I believe it deep down too on my good days

 

"Parallel universes" is another great term to describe it. It's a universe that is intoxicating, exciting and makes you feel alive. However it is not real and before long the parallel universes start colliding and you are inevitably faced with reality again. I don't long for my AP as much as I do the escape of the high of the bubble. However it is not sustainable.

 

I wouldn't say I am strong for recognising the need to end the affair. I didn't want to! I wanted to cling on to it for dear life and not let go. If my AP hadn't of been wanting to repair his marriage also, I would have likely remained weak. But I also didn't like the person I had become - needy, obsessive, jealous, desperate. I knew I wanted to step away from that person and work on getting back to my normal self. I also realised that I had to face the issues in my marriage and not run away. I didn't want to throw it away and knew I wanted to work on it. This couldn't happen if I stayed in the affair.

 

I didn't feel as much guilt as I should have during the affair. The guilt hit me like a ton of bricks once the affair was over and I was thinking more clearly. But I am glad I feel like this so I will always protect my marriage and not get myself into the same situation again.

 

Thank you for your hug!

Edited February 19, 2016 by Grey Cloud

[Grey Cloud]

depends -- the catch is... once you had a taste of that other love, can you really go back and be satisfied? when you know what's out there? when you've experienced that other love you've been missing? maybe you had it with your spouse and you're excited to have it again with someone. maybe you never had it with your spouse. who knows?

 

but can you really go back to something that wasn't enough for you in the first place? in order to do that and actually live a good life... i think a lot of denial and fake it until you make it is needed.

 

 

 

i agree, Pop. i also think that most people cheat because there's something missing in their marriage - and that's not a shot at the BS. it doesn't need to be anyone's fault, some relationships simply have an expiration date and they come to an end.

 

BUT that's only my opinion based on my limited experiences. i can be totally wrong.

 

How it worked for me, is that yes I experienced a taste of what was out there during my affair but I didn't fall madly in love with my AP. I did however fall madly in love with my H when we met over 10 years ago. So for me I think I can re capture that again knowing the grass is not greener. I don't think my M was fundamentally flawed, we got stuck in a rut. And I am prepared to give it my best shot before walking away from it all. If anything the affair opened my eyes and made me realise I was still IN love with my H. I realise some affairs have the opposite effect though.

[couchcushion]

This is a great thread.

 

I just ended an affair for the...20th time? (I've lost count), but I feel like this time is the last time. We were on and off for about 1.5 years.

 

Some very mature and rational discussion here. Thanks.

[JacksBack]

But I also didn't like the person I had become - needy, obsessive, jealous, desperate.

 

Like this line, you articulated something I had felt but not fully appreciated. Adding it to my list of positives things about ending the A to help me move on.

[JessicaInGeorgia]

But I also didn't like the person I had become - needy, obsessive, jealous, desperate.

 

This is so true for my situation. I could look at it objectively and see the way I was acting was totally out of character for me but I couldn't step back far enough to actually stop it. I even told my exMM this near the end, I just didn't recognize myself and wanted to just go back to normal.

[jenkins95]

Do you really feel like your affair was a mistake? What would you do different if you could go back in time, was the affair partner a person you loved or just a distraction:o? (Jenk, greyc)

 

Hi Noideanow, thanks again for your great contributions and your awkward questions ;-) Just what we need!

 

If I went back to the very first time I spoke to my AP, I would be pleasant, friendly and have the nice, long, polite, stimulating, agreeable, conversation just like we actually had that time, because it was really nice - and harmless. The difference is that I wouldn't engineer an opportunity to meet again and include it suggestively in the conversation. I would simply say goodbye, wish her all the very best and then do a 180 and keep on walking in the opposite direction.

 

Worst mistake I ever made - never to be repeated! If I could undo it, I 100% would.

[jenkins95]

I just wanted to say how fascinating the contributions to this thread have been since I visited yesterday - minimariah, Liam, Popsicle, Lemondrop, GC and many more - that is great stuff you have written there and I hope it has been as therapeutic to you in writing it as it has been for me in reading it. The debate is really fascinating and you all come across as such intelligent, experienced people who know what you are talking about, both through observation and (often painful) personal experience. This thread is one of the best I've ever read.....and I've read a lot ;-)

 

I'm also very touched that minimariah clearly actually remembers me from last summer when I was at pretty much the lowest point in my life, and first joined here. Some of the things you say show me that you remember details of my earliest, most desperate posts, which I remember you contributing to at the time. This touches me immensely, and really means a lot to me and shows the value of this place as a community. In fact minimariah, I think you are about the fifth person on this thread who has had me in tears! All very welcome tears, which are really helping me!

 

Lets keep this thread going. I will have a lot to say soon about some of the great stuff that has been written about the very nature of love itself - absolutely fascinating stuff! It is a bit difficult to write long posts now as I am doing several long shifts over the next few days, but I will return to these issues! I hope we keep this amazing debate going.

 

Keep them coming guys!

 

I hope you are well today GC, another day survived!