He threw me out

[MissCongeniality]

BTW OP, you have a ace in the hole.

 

Your words here on LS. You wrote long ago about this and you wrote that you grew to love your husband. Your post here could be your letter. And it is hard proof because it is date stamped and anonymous. There was no reason to lie here..

 

It could be your hail mary pass.

You are right you are completely right. I was just really emotional before but my head's more clear now. Thank you.

[66Charger]

Send him the link. Its not all good but it is the unvarnished truth. In a twisted way, it us a confession. It also says that there was no PA. Your husband is male. Thats very important. It may help but it may not.

 

He may even post.

 

Wishing you well.

 

Sincerely

[testmeasure]

He likely hasn't forgotten his family life with you. Likely he is very puzzled and troubled about reconciling who you "seemed to be" with who you "actually were".

 

It is sounds somewhat unknown who he currently thinks you "actually were". Suppose he did hire an investigator. What if this place you worked has a reputation for activities that extend far beyond what you did. (Actual sex and prostitution?) The investigator may have reported that reputation.

 

You, yourself are at a stage where you are ready to question who how to reconcile who you actually are with who you seem to be.

 

His first reaction could be damage control for the sake of the kids. You haven't been very clear about the kids. Whose are they? My impression is you have an older daughter with someone else as the father. Then there are 3 younger kids that you had with him?

 

If he is trying to reconcile who you "seemed to be" with who you "actually were", you want to be absolutely sure to exhibit behavior that confirms you have the potential to be the person you "seemed to be". You want to avoid at all costs any behavior that confirms you were the person that you "actually were". 66Charger covered that point: "Screaming at your husband that he was a loser and that people didn't respect him and were laughing at him, may have been your death blow. In his mind, you are one of those people."

 

Getting therapy is a definite win-win. Yet, I think you, yourself realized it might be a factor in a private investigators report that might have been taken as a sign of an affair. But that's a non-unique problem. If he had an investigator and there is a report, that report could be distorted any number of ways. Getting or continuing therapy should be high on the list of things to do. There should be an upside to it regardless of how things unfold or what direction they take.

 

If the end game here is divorce and it ends up being a high conflict one, then Old_Shirt's advice on getting an attorney as soon as possible is correct. If there is any chance that this doesn't end in divorce, you going to an attorney would fall into the camp of confirming your husband's worst belief about you. It's exactly what the old you from when you first met him would have done.

 

Linking him this thread is a possibility. But I'd think about it carefully. It's almost the opposite of the Old_Shirt advice. If you hand him this, and then there's a divorce with a high conflict custody battle, who knows what you're giving him unless you've had a lawyer evaluate the decision to give him the contents of the thread. It's not clear you're sure he has an investigator, even if he did, who knows how well their report and testimony would stand up. But if in addition to that there is an email from you with a link to this showing that you confirm the stuff the investigator found out, there is no way for that to be a good thing.

 

I see a kind of double bind. The best cards you could play to protect yourself now if this this goes down the divorce path have a danger of making that a self fulfilling prophesy. The best cards you have to play for making it go down the reconciliation path would be potentially very damaging if it ended up in a high conflict divorce. On the one hand, if this is to end in divorce, you need to be in a lawyer's office like Old_Shirt says. But that just helps prove you still are the person you no longer want to be. On the other hand, if you want to put this on a reconciliation path, you've got to come clean. But that could destroy you if things end with a divorce and a high conflict custody battle.

 

Is there any way you can find out if he is willing to work this out, or if he's already contacting lawyers to file for divorce?

 

 

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Edited February 14, 2016 by testmeasure

[MissCongeniality]

He likely hasn't forgotten his family life with you. Likely he is very puzzled and troubled about reconciling who you "seemed to be" with who you "actually were".

 

It is sounds somewhat unknown who he currently thinks you "actually were". Suppose he did hire an investigator. What if this place you worked has a reputation for activities that extend far beyond what you did. (Actual sex and prostitution?) The investigator may have reported that reputation.

 

You, yourself are at a stage where you are ready to question who how to reconcile who you actually are with who you seem to be.

 

His first reaction could be damage control for the sake of the kids. You haven't been very clear about the kids. Whose are they? My impression is you have an older daughter with someone else as the father. Then there are 3 younger kids that you had with him?

 

If he is trying to reconcile who you "seemed to be" with who you "actually were", you want to be absolutely sure to exhibit behavior that confirms you have the potential to be the person you "seemed to be". You want to avoid at all costs any behavior that confirms you were the person that you "actually were". 66Charger covered that point: "Screaming at your husband that he was a loser and that people didn't respect him and were laughing at him, may have been your death blow. In his mind, you are one of those people."

 

Getting therapy is a definite win-win. Yet, I think you, yourself realized it might be a factor in a private investigators report that might have been taken as a sign of an affair. But that's a non-unique problem. If he had an investigator and there is a report, that report could be distorted any number of ways. Getting or continuing therapy should be high on the list of things to do. There should be an upside to it regardless of how things unfold or what direction they take.

 

If the end game here is divorce and it ends up being a high conflict one, then Old_Shirt's advice on getting an attorney as soon as possible is correct. If there is any chance that this doesn't end in divorce, you going to an attorney would fall into the camp of confirming your husband's worst belief about you. It's exactly what the old you from when you first met him would have done.

 

Linking him this thread is a possibility. But I'd think about it carefully. It's almost the opposite of the Old_Shirt advice. If you hand him this, and then there's a divorce with a high conflict custody battle, who knows what you're giving him unless you've had a lawyer evaluate the decision to give him the contents of the thread. It's not clear you're sure he has an investigator, even if he did, who knows how well their report and testimony would stand up. But if in addition to that there is an email from you with a link to this showing that you confirm the stuff the investigator found out, there is no way for that to be a good thing.

 

I see a kind of double bind. The best cards you could play to protect yourself now if this this goes down the divorce path have a danger of making that a self fulfilling prophesy. The best cards you have to play for making it go down the reconciliation path would be potentially very damaging if it ended up in a high conflict divorce. On the one hand, if this is to end in divorce, you need to be in a lawyer's office like Old_Shirt says. But that just helps prove you still are the person you no longer want to be. On the other hand, if you want to put this on a reconciliation path, you've got to come clean. But that could destroy you if things end with a divorce and a high conflict custody battle.

 

Is there any way you can find out if he is willing to work this out, or if he's already contacting lawyers to file for divorce?

 

 

.

Honestly I feel like there's nothing I can do I keep calling, texting but nothing. I want to just go home or to his job and see if I can catch him but I worry if I do that it will seem like I'm forcing things. I am afraid to do anything because like you said if I get a lawyer it might make things worse and let's be real if it goes to court I'm going to lose because I am the bad guy in this situation.

 

No judge is going to see my side. The truth is I don't even know who I am. If I can say I've learned anything from this it's that I have no identity. I just be what people expect of me. The worst part is part of me feels like I should just go and never go near my kids again.

 

I'm just going to go home and see if he's willing to talk. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[Satu]

Snip

 

I don't know why I am the way I am.

 

"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate."

 

— C. G. Jung

[66Charger]

This may be tough on you, but so what. Now you will find out who you really are. You have lost everything, now what will you do? Quit because its too tough? Abandon the kids? Fight with him some more? Wake up!!

 

Now, you will find out if you really love your husband. You did dirt, so accept your punishment, but control your destiny as best that you can. Better pray that he is in the camp where no PA is salvageable. BTW destiny doesnt happen today or tomorrow. It is a minute by minute, day by day, year by year journey.

 

He will talk to you soon enough. You had better be ready. Have you scheduled IC?

 

Your life is really messed up now, but who you are, will now come thru. You are damaged in so many ways, but deep inside who do you reallly want to be? How hard are you willing to fight for that? The course of your life just took a drastic turn, will you do whatever it takes to change your direction? If you truly love him, not as just a husband, provider and father, but as man, then dont give up until the divorce papers are signed.

 

Honestly, by your comments to him on DDay, I am not sure that you do.

 

The shot has hit the fan. Which way will you go?

[testmeasure]

Honestly I feel like there's nothing I can do I keep calling, texting but nothing. I want to just go home or to his job and see if I can catch him but I worry if I do that it will seem like I'm forcing things. I am afraid to do anything because like you said if I get a lawyer it might make things worse and let's be real if it goes to court I'm going to lose because I am the bad guy in this situation.

 

No judge is going to see my side. The truth is I don't even know who I am. If I can say I've learned anything from this it's that I have no identity. I just be what people expect of me. The worst part is part of me feels like I should just go and never go near my kids again.

 

I'm just going to go home and see if he's willing to talk. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

 

Be careful not to do anything that confirms his worst fears about you. Don't do anything remotely like stalking him.

 

It has to look like you're just trying to open a channel of communication. He may not be ready for that, but it should be understandable that you would try. But, you're right if you try and force things, that will cross over into confirming his worst fears.

 

"let's be real if it goes to court I'm going to lose because I am the bad guy in this situation. No judge is going to see my side."

 

As far as I understand it, nothing you did would effect the financial outcome of a divorce.

 

The reasons for entering the relationship and original attitude you had toward it seem fraudulent. But that's probably more on a moral and ethical level. So it makes sense that you'd feel guilty and expect to be punished in the outcome. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, the court isn't even going to look at that. If it's a no-fault, community property state the stuff will be divided 50/50.

 

As far as the kids go, there is a very strong belief that both parents are important. The court is very reluctant to remove parental rights. You have to have abandon them and be unreachable, be in jail or totally unavailable, doing drugs to the point that you can't take care of yourself, or some kind of danger or threat to them.

 

I've seen a lot of stories where a parent suspects the other parent has a mental illness and is doing harm to the children. But this is very hard to prove. Some people tell stories of spending years documenting harmful behavior toward the kid before they can finally get a court to reduce the other parents parenting time, or in extreme situations involving clearly abusive behavior, possibly even require some kind of supervision.

 

It sounds like even if you have a complicated history and held a job that was outside social norms. You isolated your family from this by lying. But, still you isolated your family from it. Lying to your husband isn't great. But you didn't abuse him emotionally, physically, or financially. It didn't sound like there were any drugs, neglect or harmful behavior. I didn't hear anything where you were a bad mom.

 

That he found out some stuff about you that he doesn't like and now he doesn't want to be with you, doesn't give him any kind of legal upper hand at all. It's up to him to prove you harmed him or were a danger to him. It's up to him to prove what harm you've done or what danger you are to the kids that makes it not in the kids best interest to have equal time, access and an equal relationship with their mother. If you were a good wife and mother, that's going to be very hard to do.

 

From what you've said, there's no drugs, no physical abuse, no emotional abuse, no bad financial behavior*, no neglect, no history of fighting, no criminal activity, no dangerous or harmful behavior... Why on earth would you automatically lose in court?

 

I'm not saying you would automatically win or that there's no chance of losing.

 

*by "no bad financial behavior", I'm talking about wasting money needlessly, being addicted to shopping, concealing financial information, hiding that you bought things, having a gambling addition, and things along those lines. You entered the relationship with bad intentions that you never acted on. That doesn't count as actually exhibiting any financially irresponsible behavior.

 

I'm not an attorney, this isn't legal advice, it's just opinion. Think of it as something you read on the internet, which actually is what it is.

 

.

[MissCongeniality]

Be careful not to do anything that confirms his worst fears about you. Don't do anything remotely like stalking him.

 

It has to look like you're just trying to open a channel of communication. He may not be ready for that, but it should be understandable that you would try. But, you're right if you try and force things, that will cross over into confirming his worst fears.

 

"let's be real if it goes to court I'm going to lose because I am the bad guy in this situation. No judge is going to see my side."

 

As far as I understand it, nothing you did would effect the financial outcome of a divorce.

 

I'm not conscerned with the financial outcome. That's the farthest thing from my mind.

 

The reasons for entering the relationship and original attitude you had toward it seem fraudulent. But that's probably more on a moral and ethical level. So it makes sense that you'd feel guilty and expect to be punished in the outcome. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, the court isn't even going to look at that. If it's a no-fault, community property state the stuff will be divided 50/50.

 

As far as the kids go, there is a very strong belief that both parents are important. The court is very reluctant to remove parental rights. You have to have abandon them and be unreachable, be in jail or totally unavailable, doing drugs to the point that you can't take care of yourself, or some kind of danger or threat to them.

 

I've seen a lot of stories where a parent suspects the other parent has a mental illness and is doing harm to the children. But this is very hard to prove. Some people tell stories of spending years documenting harmful behavior toward the kid before they can finally get a court to reduce the other parents parenting time, or in extreme situations involving clearly abusive behavior, possibly even require some kind of supervision.

 

It sounds like even if you have a complicated history and held a job that was outside social norms. You isolated your family from this by lying. But, still you isolated your family from it. Lying to your husband isn't great. But you didn't abuse him emotionally, physically, or financially. It didn't sound like there were any drugs, neglect or harmful behavior. I didn't hear anything where you were a bad mom.

 

That he found out some stuff about you that he doesn't like and now he doesn't want to be with you, doesn't give him any kind of legal upper hand at all. It's up to him to prove you harmed him or were a danger to him. It's up to him to prove what harm you've done or what danger you are to the kids that makes it not in the kids best interest to have equal time, access and an equal relationship with their mother. If you were a good wife and mother, that's going to be very hard to do.

 

From what you've said, there's no drugs, no physical abuse, no emotional abuse, no bad financial behavior*, no neglect, no history of fighting, no criminal activity, no dangerous or harmful behavior... Why on earth would you automatically lose in court?

I'm afraid that things I did in my past would cause a judge to lean in favor of my husband. I never did anything bad to my kids but I haven't always made good choices. I'm afraid I'll be judged for who I was and not who I am.

[testmeasure]

I'm not conscerned with the financial outcome. That's the farthest thing from my mind.

Great. One problem solved. This can be a big thing. For some people, practical things rely on financial answers to things. The less this is in your case, even from your single side, the better. These things only make themselves what they are.

 

 

I'm afraid that things I did in my past would cause a judge to lean in favor of my husband. I never did anything bad to my kids but I haven't always made good choices. I'm afraid I'll be judged for who I was and not who I am.

 

 

It's not impossible that your fears on this matter are correct. It is neither inevitable. The more you can reach out to the kids in the current separation situation, the better.

 

 

There may be no communication channel with him about him. But is there some way you can get the kids and be their mom. Document it and demonstrate it. Document everything. Normally I'm telling guys to do this against the girls. This is going to be a combat thing but seize what ever you can. Outside of that if someone is able to present themselves as the best you could hope for, but the worst you'd fail for, hopefully that knocks you out of this destructive cycle.

[MissCongeniality]

Just giving everyone an update the situation with my husband is improving he's not letting me move back in but we are working things out. Does anyone have any advice on how I can explain this to my kids? I'm not really sure what they know but I don't want them worrying.

[testmeasure]

I'm divorced. My daughter is young enough I haven't had to explain anything about divorce yet.

 

From what I've read, it sounds like you let them ask you. Particularly individual reports on the internet seem to indicate they're going to ask you about this less than you expect.

 

If they do ask about it, then if you need it, ask for some time to think about it (you want to get this right). The advice always seems to be answer it on a level they can understand it.

 

Hopefully yours isn't a divorce situation. But The same reasoning could apply. In your case, if you're trying to work things out, find some way to try to say that so they will understand it at their age. But, don't get them involved in it. The message ends at the two of you are trying to work things out.

 

If they want to know what you did or why daddy did this or that, I think I've seen one possible recommended answer being to tell them they are kids and they are responsible for kid things. They don't need to worry about adult things and need to let you and their dad work out the adult stuff. Again, you would have to scale it to their age.

 

A 17 year old, for example, you might have scale that up to telling them exactly why it's not in their own interest to worry about it. You might have to straight up tell them that it's not fair to them to get them involved in your issues because they might feel like they need to take a side or choose between the two of you, and that's not fair to them. As distracting as it is without even knowing what's going on, they need to be focused on school, not even more involved in and distracted by personal stuff between you and their dad.

 

If your husband talks bad about you to the kids, and they come to you about it, take a deep breath and focus on the kid. If I recall correctly, the best reaction is to ask the kid how that made them feel. Listen to what they say. Put yourself in their shoes. If it seems like a plausible emotional reaction, validate it. Then, say something like: I don't know why he would have done something like that, followed by launching into the you're a kid, it's your job to be focused on kid stuff. That's an adult thing its adult's job to take care of adult stuff.

 

For example, if it's the opposite of a 17 year old, you scale that down. That must have been very confusing and upsetting because that's a grownup thing. Your job right now is to play and eat your vegetables. Or, pick the thing they have the most fun doing and the thing you're currently trying teach them. The message to a much younger child is, your world is the thing you have the most fun doing, and the thing I'm trying to teach you right now. Wow, how confusing and upsetting that you suddenly were taken from that world and made to deal with a grownup thing. I'm sorry to hear that happened. Let me give you a hug.

 

Most coparenting books are going to have sections on what to tell the kids. Those sections will have stuff like this. In my case I'm giving it from memory without ever having had to use any of it, and with some highly improvised guesses about how you would scale up or down the recommended messages. What ever you do, at best take anything I've said as a rough idea. Hopefully someone can post who has more experience. Or if you're near a bookstore, browse a couple coparenting books.

 

Edit: Forgot to say, I'm glad to hear you're able to work on it. First thing I thought, and I think first thing I said here was he didn't forget all the time together. Likely he's struggling to reconcile that with what he now thinks he knows which at the same time it seemed somewhat unclear whether his current information could actually be worse than the truth. So, it's absolutely great if he let you have some input into how to figure all that out from his side as opposed to totally shutting you out.

 

 

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Edited February 19, 2016 by testmeasure