"I feel sorry for his wife"

[dreamingoftigers]

You really don't hear this ^^^^^^ said at all.

 

It's usually more of the woe is me. "Why didn't he leave her".".I'm so heartbroken" "he or she used me"

 

I think saying they feel sorry for the BS is really a defence mechanism to hide their hurt of not being chosen. It's human nature when something doesn't go your way to say stuff like that.

 

Not a blind bit of consideration ....that never ceases to amaze me.

 

To be fair, I DO hear sometimes that they regret hurting the wife.

 

It is rare but does happen.

But the usual is self-portrayal of victimhood, which I don't quite get. To me: the guy is married. Duh.

[ShatteredLady]

I like this kind of "Let's just chat about 'stuff' nothing truly specific" kind of threads!

 

I think the oh so common, "The OW doesn't KNOW the MM" comes from the truth that when you fall in love you just don't know someone as well as you do after 20 years of marriage". You haven't seen the bad yet... I believe that you never truly know anyone but most 'normal' relationships you know someone a hell of a lot better after 20 years than you do 20 days!!

 

The thing is there are all kinds of affairs between all kinds of people.

 

For example, growing-up, I was flower girl to my much older cousin. His wife was lovely. Taught little kids. Looked like a princess in her dress. My aunt (LOVE HER!) adored her daughter in law. Everyone predicted loads of kids. Perfect!

 

Less than a year later he met a married woman at the gym. A couple of weeks (at most) later they both filed for divorce.

 

My cousin (to this day) says he desperately wanted children. He knew the OW couldn't have kids. They met, lied that they had sudden business trips, spent a week talking, came 'home' & broke-up their marriages.

 

They have a beautiful, idyllic cottage. They love gardening, it's amazing. They've been together, just the 2 of them for about 40 years now. They've always seemed deeply in love to me.

 

I know people who cheated & 20 years later are mourning the loss of the love of their life for a stupid fling!

 

I've seen my H turn into a completely alien person. We've discussed mental breakdown etc. because he can't even imagine himself tolerating the company of the man he became for those months.

 

I'm a 'normal' English middle class woman of my age. I was raised to be self reliant. I was successful, independent & strong. We went on to earn a LOT of money. At one point we spent a whole year together 24/7, not working, traveling, staying home, just being! Talking. Existing for a year & NEVER got bored or irritated by each-other!!

 

For reasons above & a million others I thought that I knew him. My hippy, geek, gentle, genius, love started calling himself a "Golden God" whilst showing his 6 pack!! Do you know how we laughed at people like that!!

 

He quoted the bible & country music to his OW. He had to google because he's an atheist & English!! He doesn't know country music & HATES it!! His favorite bands include Oasis, Led Zeplin & (his favorite) RUSH!!

Edited February 14, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[sandylee1]

When most couples meet they have jobs & bills...just not together. That's my point, the WS goes back to that person with AP, that's part of the fun of the A. That's the WS escape, so my point is AP is meeting basically the same person the BS did bc "real life" isn't stressed in the A. So if you go back to how your WS when you first met them, that's usually who the AP, so if the BS fell in love with that, why would they think AP couldn't have? I knew exactly why my H OW fell for him, she fell for the same guy I did. I dint understand why a BS wouldn't recognize that, if you fell in love with love with your spouse, why couldn't someone else?

 

The only difference here is when you as the BS fall in love with your spouse...he /she isn't cheating. No matter how lovely their personality is ...The AP knows they are being deceptive and wanting to break their marriage vows.

 

The BS is falling for an individual who up to that point has been honest with them. ......I'd say that's quite a major difference.

[cocorico]

 

The BS is falling for an individual who up to that point has been honest with them. ......I'd say that's quite a major difference.

 

This is true for the OW, too - the MM has always been honest with them, even if he may have been a little less than honest with the BW (and there are often reasons - or rationalisations - to explain that).

[sandylee1]

This is true for the OW, too - the MM has always been honest with them, even if he may have been a little less than honest with the BW (and there are often reasons - or rationalisations - to explain that).

 

My point was that the WS has showed the AP he's a cheating liar..that he's unfaithful.....The BS has thus far had a faithful spouse.

 

It's like saying I'm being really honest about doing a really bad thing.....that doesn't make you a good person...however, people in affairs generally justify everything and argue that the grass ain't green if necessary.

[Whoknew30]

My point was that the WS has showed the AP he's a cheating liar..that he's unfaithful.....The BS has thus far had a faithful spouse.

 

It's like saying I'm being really honest about doing a really bad thing.....that doesn't make you a good person...however, people in affairs generally justify everything and argue that the grass ain't green if necessary.

 

He showed the BS he's a cheating liar but usually the BS tries to reconcile. IMO, I personally think BS have a hard time with excepting that AP got same person that they did but they did, the SAME person BS married slept with AP...same person. Then when BS finds out they forgive & reconcile with that same person. The WS is who they are, even through bad decisions.

 

The feeling sorry for the wife is kind of a true statement. When AP get out of the fog they often say, thank god i dodged that bullet & now he's his her problem.

[cocorico]

My point was that the WS has showed the AP he's a cheating liar..that he's unfaithful.....

 

 

Nope. He's shown the AP he is so willing / able to be less than honest with the BW. If someone is less than honest in one area of their lives, it does not necessarily mean they are dishonest in all areas of their life. Someone who invents an excuse to get out of a speeding ticket does not necessarily lead a double life; nor does someone who adopts a fake online persona to post on Internet forums necessarily cheat on their tax return.

 

And, if the MM provides his reasons / rationalisations for his less-than-honesty with the BW to the OW, and she considers them sufficient, she would not consider him "a cheating liar" - just someone stuck in an unfortunate situation where he is unable to be fully honest with a particular individual.

[sandylee1]

It's more than being less than honest..it's being an outright liar and cheat ...but everyone views things differently and was raised with and lives by different moral standards.

 

If a person is capable of basically living a double life by having an AP for months and years.....they will have mastered the art of deception and be able to apply it to other areas of their life without a problem. There's no one size fits all ... but dishonesty is a character trait.

 

No doubt this won't be everyone's view ...but we'll agree to disagree without getting het up about it.

[waterwoman]

I hate that phrase. The ultimate in passive aggressive putdowns. It is a neat way of saying 'I'm pissed off he's staying with her, but if I pretend he's not worth having anyway, I'll feel better'. The right time to feel sorry for his wife is when he is lying and cheating in the first place not when the affair is confessed or discovered and there is a chance that his wife can make some decisions of her own.

 

I felt sorry for me to be honest! But I had a damned good reason to. I had worked my arse off over the years earning money, building a home, raising a family while he flitted in and out of jobs, left most of the housework to me, been a a father of dubious usefulness and felt sorry for himself. AFTER the affair was when he got a major mental kick in the balls and grew up. I'd like to thank his OW for that but I don't think she's appreciate it.....

[Dancewithme]

Nope. He's shown the AP he is so willing / able to be less than honest with the BW. If someone is less than honest in one area of their lives, it does not necessarily mean they are dishonest in all areas of their life. Someone who invents an excuse to get out of a speeding ticket does not necessarily lead a double life; nor does someone who adopts a fake online persona to post on Internet forums necessarily cheat on their tax return.

 

And, if the MM provides his reasons / rationalisations for his less-than-honesty with the BW to the OW, and she considers them sufficient, she would not consider him "a cheating liar" - just someone stuck in an unfortunate situation where he is unable to be fully honest with a particular individual.

 

I think everyone's take on the honesty question is seen through the lens of their own experience. There are OWs who have ended up with their MM, OWs who didn't, BSs who choose to reconcile.... It goes on and on. You can see how things played out for them based on the responses here.

 

I find the above quote intriguing. I feel for a OM or OM to be oK with the deception of the BS from their MM/MW, and to consider it all just an " unfortunate Situation", that rationalization is at play. The MM/ MW is still being dishonest, is still betraying a spouse, that's why it's called cheating. All areas of their lives, or just that one area, it is what it is... Being less than authentic, and betraying one to whom they vowed to "forsake all others" for is a little more impactful, life changing, and heart wrenching than cheating on taxes or lying to avoid a speed ticket.

 

These types of relationships are definitely complicated all around. The conversations that one must hold with oneself while in the midst of such relationships to get through, I'm sure run the gamut of thoughts and feelings.

 

Definitely thought provoking conversation here.

[wmacbride]

When most couples meet they have jobs & bills...just not together. That's my point, the WS goes back to that person with AP, that's part of the fun of the A. That's the WS escape, so my point is AP is meeting basically the same person the BS did bc "real life" isn't stressed in the A. So if you go back to how your WS when you first met them, that's usually who the AP, so if the BS fell in love with that, why would they think AP couldn't have? I knew exactly why my H OW fell for him, she fell for the same guy I did. I dint understand why a BS wouldn't recognize that, if you fell in love with love with your spouse, why couldn't someone else?

 

Your assumption is flawed though. it makes the assumption that people don;t chnage over time.

 

How can a person have kids, bills, a home, an all the other stressors in life and not have changed, on a fundamental level, from who they were when they first met the bs?

 

For instance, man single people pair up and get married, believing they never want to have children, or are at best, ambivalent about it. Then they have a son or daughter, and then undergo a fundamental shift in their personality.

That same person may suddenly find that their child becomes the centre of their world.

 

A person in that situation who cheats, will not be anything like the carefree person they were when they first met the bs. They are either capable of compartmentalizing, or they are lying to themselves.

[wmacbride]

Nope. He's shown the AP he is so willing / able to be less than honest with the BW. If someone is less than honest in one area of their lives, it does not necessarily mean they are dishonest in all areas of their life. Someone who invents an excuse to get out of a speeding ticket does not necessarily lead a double life; nor does someone who adopts a fake online persona to post on Internet forums necessarily cheat on their tax return.

 

And, if the MM provides his reasons / rationalisations for his less-than-honesty with the BW to the OW, and she considers them sufficient, she would not consider him "a cheating liar" - just someone stuck in an unfortunate situation where he is unable to be fully honest with a particular individual.

 

That's like apples to watermelons.

 

It always amuses me when people make statements like "so he lied to hs bs, haven't you ever told a lie?"

 

btw, there are those of us who don't view lying to get our own way as acceptable. If I get a speeding ticket, I'm honest and accept it as a consequence of my actions, if taxes are set at a certain rate, I pay them. The fact that someone sees the truth as fluid and dependent on what they will get out of it if they are honest vs. if they are lying says something about that person's honesty.

It shows they will lie if and when it suits them.

[sandylee1]

That's like apples to watermelons.

 

It always amuses me when people make statements like "so he lied to hs bs, haven't you ever told a lie?"

 

It shows they will lie if and when it suits them.

 

Very true well said.^^^^^^

 

It just boils down to rationalization and justification.

In order not to view yourself as a bad person .....you convince yourself you have good reason to do the wrong think ... thus making it okay.

 

The saying I feel sorry for his wife....is sour grapes.

I'm sure when the MM scurries out of your bed and rushes of when his wife calls you don't feel sorry for her.......just sorry for yourself at that point.

 

The more common emotion is jealousy and bitterness and I've come across hatred even of the BW.

 

It's like saying I didn't want to go to the party when you weren't invited. It's self preservation that you don't want him...but if he left I'm pretty sure the OW would be delighted....even after saying she feels sorry.

 

That phrase is only said when the A is over or when things aren't going well. It could be that they are thinking with a clearer head it generally comes from a place of self inflicted pain.

[ShatteredLady]

The world is full of all kinds of people living all kinds of lives. When it comes to relationships the view from my ivory tower was a pretty sheltered one.

 

I met my H shorty after my 21 birthday. We grew together. Married at 26. First pregnancy at 36.

 

My only experience of the dating scene was one long term romantic teenage angst & a few dates & shortterm things. I don't know what it's like to be alone. The prospect of dating as a grown-up is terrifying!!

 

Some of my friends that I grew-up with are still single, serial dating in their 40's. Sometimes it's fun, others brutal. We've discussed this & I get how bloody hard it must be when most of your friends get married & start families. My friends, mostly, want that.

 

People I never imagined doing things like that have dated married people. None of them have fallen for it & become long term OW/OM.

 

Basically I don't know what I'm talking about!!

 

From my innocent ivory tower it's easy for me to say "How on earth can anyone think being with someone else's partner can ever be justified?". I know that some are conned, told he's separated or single...wouldn't you dump them the moment you found out?

 

I've got some lovely single friends, male & female. Why not date people like that?

 

Logically, we know that being with a person whose married to someone else is wrong! We know it will cause incredible pain to other human beings. How can anyone be complicit in that cruelty?

 

Good people are!!

 

The conversation "Who knows the married person best?" seems a bit bizarre to me. What does it matter?? Who gets the 'real' him? Who cares when the 'real him' is someone who is willing to inflict the worst kind of pain & destruction on BOTH women!

 

I feel sorry for the bs. It's the most terrible thing to be betrayed & deceived by 'Your love. Your person'. I feel sorry for the 'other' it must be lonely, the jealousy, the wanting & needing. Imagining what he's saying & doing with his wife. Ugh!! I even feel sorry for some WS.

 

I believe in most situations no-one who truly grasped the brutal cruelty could even imagine being involved in all the crap. REALLY? I know that each individual justifies their actions. That's human nature.

 

I imagined what it could be like to be a bs. I was WRONG! It's by far the worst thing I've ever experienced because it shatters every aspect of everything. It made we pine for death, peace. NOTHING has done that to me. My brother would still be alive if his W hadn't cheated.

 

I can imagine what it must be like to be the OW. I'm probably wrong!! It's likely way worse than I think.

 

All I know is...after experiencing what I have I could NEVER cheat. I could NEVER knowingly be the OW. Don't say "You never know!". I DO KNOW!! I know the agony. I would have to HATE, truly despise all involved to even think about it. I could never inflict that on a person.

 

Who ever you are. Whatever role you're playing in this farce. Get out!! We can debate the semantics until the cows come home. At the end of the day I will not be complicit in making another wish for death, sobbing through the night. There isn't a justification!

 

Bad day! Ranting really. I want me back. I mourn all of it.

[Whoknew30]

Your assumption is flawed though. it makes the assumption that people don;t chnage over time.

 

How can a person have kids, bills, a home, an all the other stressors in life and not have changed, on a fundamental level, from who they were when they first met the bs?

 

For instance, man single people pair up and get married, believing they never want to have children, or are at best, ambivalent about it. Then they have a son or daughter, and then undergo a fundamental shift in their personality.

That same person may suddenly find that their child becomes the centre of their world.

 

A person in that situation who cheats, will not be anything like the carefree person they were when they first met the bs. They are either capable of compartmentalizing, or they are lying to themselves.

 

People do change...in a way. You get older, your body doesn't hang as much as when younger, you have more responsibility BUT that carefree person is still inside. My kids changed me in a way but I'm still very much partly who I was.

 

That's why during in A (in a lot of cases, not all) people aren't lying to themselves, they just see that person they used to be before or they get to be who they really are without any of conflict from their spouse. I see that a lot! People having fun & being themselves then the spouse comes & it's like they have to put more on an act for their spouse vs their friends & family. Same thing with AP.

[Whoknew30]

The world is full of all kinds of people living all kinds of lives. When it comes to relationships the view from my ivory tower was a pretty sheltered one.

 

I met my H shorty after my 21 birthday. We grew together. Married at 26. First pregnancy at 36.

 

My only experience of the dating scene was one long term romantic teenage angst & a few dates & shortterm things. I don't know what it's like to be alone. The prospect of dating as a grown-up is terrifying!!

 

Some of my friends that I grew-up with are still single, serial dating in their 40's. Sometimes it's fun, others brutal. We've discussed this & I get how bloody hard it must be when most of your friends get married & start families. My friends, mostly, want that.

 

People I never imagined doing things like that have dated married people. None of them have fallen for it & become long term OW/OM.

 

Basically I don't know what I'm talking about!!

 

From my innocent ivory tower it's easy for me to say "How on earth can anyone think being with someone else's partner can ever be justified?". I know that some are conned, told he's separated or single...wouldn't you dump them the moment you found out?

 

I've got some lovely single friends, male & female. Why not date people like that?

 

Logically, we know that being with a person whose married to someone else is wrong! We know it will cause incredible pain to other human beings. How can anyone be complicit in that cruelty?

 

Good people are!!

 

The conversation "Who knows the married person best?" seems a bit bizarre to me. What does it matter?? Who gets the 'real' him? Who cares when the 'real him' is someone who is willing to inflict the worst kind of pain & destruction on BOTH women!

 

I feel sorry for the bs. It's the most terrible thing to be betrayed & deceived by 'Your love. Your person'. I feel sorry for the 'other' it must be lonely, the jealousy, the wanting & needing. Imagining what he's saying & doing with his wife. Ugh!! I even feel sorry for some WS.

 

I believe in most situations no-one who truly grasped the brutal cruelty could even imagine being involved in all the crap. REALLY? I know that each individual justifies their actions. That's human nature.

 

I imagined what it could be like to be a bs. I was WRONG! It's by far the worst thing I've ever experienced because it shatters every aspect of everything. It made we pine for death, peace. NOTHING has done that to me. My brother would still be alive if his W hadn't cheated.

 

I can imagine what it must be like to be the OW. I'm probably wrong!! It's likely way worse than I think.

 

All I know is...after experiencing what I have I could NEVER cheat. I could NEVER knowingly be the OW. Don't say "You never know!". I DO KNOW!! I know the agony. I would have to HATE, truly despise all involved to even think about it. I could never inflict that on a person.

 

Who ever you are. Whatever role you're playing in this farce. Get out!! We can debate the semantics until the cows come home. At the end of the day I will not be complicit in making another wish for death, sobbing through the night. There isn't a justification!

 

Bad day! Ranting really. I want me back. I mourn all of it.

 

I'm sorry you felt like that. I watched my mom feel like that but I never understood it. I never understood how (man or woman) anyone can allow another person (including a spouse) can make you feel like you want to die.

 

I'm not cutting you down at all! It just really baffles me. I could never feel that way. I almost did die & let me tell you, NOTHING is worth that, no person or situation is worth your life bc something in your life didn't work out the way you thought. I think it goes deeper than just the cheating though, my mother had an extremely tough up bringing & I think problems with my dad didn't help after years of childhood abuse. My H brother & Uncle both took their lives after their wives cheated...I don't think cheating causes that, I personally think their are underlying issues somewhere else that the cheating brings out, I don't think cheating itself puts a mentally healthy person in that state of mind...they'll get sad of course but not wishing for death.

 

I'm sure people will disagree but I know too many people that have been cheated on & were mentally healthy...their minds never went to that point.

[merrmeade]

I still get pulled down, visualizing what he did, the way he changed for someone else and became a person I never knew. In fact, I worked very hard gathering emails, phone records, text messages and bank statements to piece together the fantasy he created with her. Yes, he became someone I never knew, and made her and her children practically worship him. It was actually quite amazing how much he changed—became a gourmet cook, attentive listener, confidante and adviser for her and her two boys ... and more.

 

Most of it my husband acknowledges and has sincerely repudiated. The most poignant example of this was when I asked him if we actually did try to reconcile with my sister-in-law, the OW, for the sake of the children on both sides, would he be willing? He got quiet, looked down and said, no, because he didn't ever want to go back to thinking in lies.

 

That's when I knew it would be okay, in spite of all the trickle truth, posturing and hiding. He showed from a deep place inside himself that he's acknowledged and rejected the self-deception he'd practiced and the way he'd used people.

 

I try to focus on this redemptive behavior and his transparency, for example, telling me things I would never have found out any other way.

[SolG]

I despair sometimes for us all :-( We spend so much time in the A situation analysing how well we know someone else... when the real questions should revolve around how much do I know me, and how much is he/she prepared to be known?

 

The whole 'authenticity ' disusscussion is a crock. If authenticity is behaviour as truth, then we are all authentic because our behavior is. We behaved that way so therefore we are. There is no question of authenticity because it just is.

 

A better standard would be congruence; is your behaviour congruent with the deapseated values that you hold? Or does your behaviour make you anxious, or fearful, or sick because it is in opposition to what you truly believe?

 

A WS is themselves in every context. They are a liar when they lie to the BS, because that is who they have chosen to be. And so too with he AP. (And lying is only one possibility, behaviour runs the gamut of possibilities.) Just as you or I choose how and what facets of ourselves we choose to be at work, or at school, etc. I'm not saying it is entirely conscious... but it is a chosen revelation of part of our 'authentic' self. The degree of congruence with values is variable.

 

To get to the original question... about feeling sorry for the BS. As an OW coming up to six years in an A... I don't feel 'sorry' for the BS. But I do feel great sorrow. For a WS and a BS who have had, and still have a great struggle to be known to each other and all the courage and vulnerability that entails. And for me who is as yet too weak to disentangle.

[merrmeade]

The whole 'authenticity ' disusscussion is a crock. If authenticity is behaviour as truth, then we are all authentic because our behavior is. We behaved that way so therefore we are. There is no question of authenticity because it just is.

Why can't it be the other way around? The behavior is different from how the person is and intended to fool someone else into thinking you're a certain way.

[elaine567]

That phrase is only said when the A is over or when things aren't going well. It could be that they are thinking with a clearer head it generally comes from a place of self inflicted pain.

 

Or it can be said, by an OW who is not that invested in the A.

"We have great fun, but I do feel a bit sorry for his wife... poor thing!"

[SolG]

Why can't it be the other way around? The behavior is different from how the person is and intended to fool someone else into thinking you're a certain way.

 

But it is still behaviour. It still is. This brings to mind those few serial serial cheaters who have dared to tread these boards. Those who say I cheat... repeatedly. . then if I gst caught I deny and minimise and deflect to make the peace. So I can do it all over again.

 

These WSs have no incongruence at alll. They knowingly and calculatedly do what they do. And they are who they are. They are authentic. It's just that are totally unwilling to be wholly known --by anyone --for who they authenically are.

[Midwestmissy]

My wh wasn't finding his true free younger self by cheating, he was only lying to himself and everyone. And it was all done to justify his actions. Some of the lies were "this is a meaningless victimless fling. No one will ever find out, therefore no one gets hurt. The mow agrees on the loose terms of this arrangement and will not renege, I'm sleeping with her so I know her well. My wife doesn't care what I do. I'm entitled to this. The mow gets me and doesn't judge me. I'm a financial rock star to my mow's trailer park life." I think he felt sorry for himself. He was demeaning everyone and considered himself the prize everyone was fighting over. It was all crap. None of his excuses were remotely true. He was sleeping with someone he didn't even like because she enabled him to not look at himself at a time when he should have put on his big boy pants and manned up. He was in and out of the dr office because he had excruciating stress neck pain - she was literally a pain in his neck, her role as pleasure escape didn't completely happen because it was wrong and he knew it, no matter the spin he put on it nor the demonization of me.

 

As for not understanding how someone can hurt so deeply after a betrayal, some people just don't feel deeply. They're often the same ones who can cheat and blow it off. My wh was taught that deep feelings, truly feeling, was a sign of weakness. He missed out on the real highs and lows as a result. So he became someone who was either working or angry - any other emotions, specifically fear, insecurity and neediness, were tamped down. He never told me what he feared or what support he needed from me. He refused to express them, and it manifested itself into getting the wrong kind of validation from his affair. Being free and cheating isn't youthful evolved, it's weak. Young people can be impetuous and idiotic in their actions, it's what we learn from as we age. I'm who I was was when I was younger, but there's more depth to me because of my experiences and responsibilities. Partying at a frat house wouldn't make me cool and youthful right now, it would be pretty sad and gross. Sleeping in until noon and letting kids fend for themselves is not fun loving, it's irresponsible. Risking my children's future stability doesn't make me hip and fun loving, it makes me unfit. Doing whatever I want and never denying a whim, or sexual urge because I fancy myself entitled and special, plus my betrayed partner will pick up the slack, is idiocy. Continuing to grow as a person into a mature, feeling adult is not denying your true young free self, it's growing the eff up. And it's very sexy.

[Furious]

I have read this more than once and I am wondering how other BS in or out of reconciliation feel about this statement-

 

Its usually uttered "after the fact". When the A is exposed or ended otherwise. I guess what I don't get is- when involved with a married person you know they are a liar and a deceiver, you know what they are doing and yet people fall in love with this version of the married person-

 

As soon as I found out about the A-my demand was pretty clear- end it or end the marriage- I was not going to be involved with that version of my husband-

 

The man I wanted to be involved with would not be the one that is lying and betraying- serious steps to becoming better than that was necessary for me to be with that person-

 

What is there to feel sorry for- I don't understand, I am not settling for that version of my husband- I am with the one that works towards honesty and integrity-

 

BS- do you get confused on how anyone could be "in love" with that "other" version of your spouse-

 

Thinking out loud and rambling here, so I hope this makes sense-

 

 

It's a double edged remark to say "I feel sorry for his wife". It's usually said when the affair ends, very rarely said during the affair. It's a convoluted layered reasoning and behind the statement, it is often more about the OW's perspective than it is actually about the betrayed spouse.

 

I can understand how an ow may see the betrayed spouse as someone who is weak to reconcile, or if there's no d-day they may see the betrayed spouse as someone blind to not see that their spouse stepped out on her.

 

I guess ow are just as confused by why a spouse can try to reconcile with a cheater, and it's just as confusing for a betrayed spouse to understand why someone would have an affair with a cheater.

[gettingstronger]

Great conversation, thank you all- lots of different ways of looking at the same statement-

 

I guess some of it comes down to "do you believe in redemption"- do I believe my husband can regain who he once was- I think he can, otherwise I wouldn't be in reconciliation- I am not excusing his behavior, I am not saying it was a "mistake"- it was a calculated act and he changed who he was to be able to do it- why he did that is still up for debate-a simplified version is he became someone that associated power with what I consider the wrong things-

 

I suppose when the xAP says they feel sorry for the BS, it could be that the xAP doesn't think the WS is capable of change or the reconciliation is false-what puzzles me is, then why would they want to be with someone like that, why pine over a person that will never be remorseful, never want to change-

 

In the end, just as many xAPs can not understand my mind, I can not understand theirs either- but I do so appreciate those that engage in the conversation because I think it helps us all grow-even just a little-

[merrmeade]

I despair sometimes for us all :-( We spend so much time in the A situation analysing how well we know someone else... when the real questions should revolve around how much do I know me, and how much is he/she prepared to be known?

 

The whole 'authenticity ' disusscussion is a crock. If authenticity is behaviour as truth, then we are all authentic because our behavior is. We behaved that way so therefore we are. There is no question of authenticity because it just is.

 

A better standard would be congruence; is your behaviour congruent with the deapseated values that you hold? Or does your behaviour make you anxious, or fearful, or sick because it is in opposition to what you truly believe?

 

A WS is themselves in every context. They are a liar when they lie to the BS, because that is who they have chosen to be. And so too with he AP. (And lying is only one possibility, behaviour runs the gamut of possibilities.) Just as you or I choose how and what facets of ourselves we choose to be at work, or at school, etc. I'm not saying it is entirely conscious... but it is a chosen revelation of part of our 'authentic' self. The degree of congruence with values is variable.

 

To get to the original question... about feeling sorry for the BS. As an OW coming up to six years in an A... I don't feel 'sorry' for the BS. But I do feel great sorrow. For a WS and a BS who have had, and still have a great struggle to be known to each other and all the courage and vulnerability that entails. And for me who is as yet too weak to disentangle.

I don't understand the point of most of this and can't figure out if it's a philosophy designed to outwit free will or what, but the last paragraph does finally become human and ring true.