"I feel sorry for his wife"

[Whoknew30]

Our kids were hurt, not because we let them see what was happening, but because they could sense something was wrong. Even our five year old knew something was up.

 

They didn't see us fight. Heck, my husband was thousands of km away, and we only got to chat through email a few times and talk on the phone one or twice.

 

We all went for fmaily therapy after he got back, and one thing that the therapist said struck home. Kids are far more sensitive than many realize, and they carry the knowledge of hurt with them. It shows up later, in other ways.

 

Just my opinion, but most people who cheat love their kids dearly and would do anything for them. They never, ever want to hurt them, so they convince themselves that what they are doing is harmless.

 

Sometimes, it is harmless, but many times it's not. Is it really worth that risk?

 

Again, sorry if I sound like I am snapping back at all your posts. It's just that I find your point of view interesting and you articulate it well.

 

 

I don't take it as snapping at All! I love hearing different points of veiw & don't get offended at all. It's so interesting to me. I can listen to people all day & have the greatest relationships with people that think differently than I. The same thinking would be so boring!

[ShatteredLady]

whoknew30 it feels like we're reading a completely different forum. "Can you find many post in this section by a BS that didn't have the "perfect" marriage before cheating?".

 

Yes! Most talk of distance, hard time lately, poor sex life, arguements, sick family members, stress, work issues etc. I hear most BS's trying to find something, anything to reason it. It's like you saying that this forum says that 'Only the OW lies'.

 

We read with very different eyes. It's so strange. I agree with some stuff you say. It confuses me that you see these things that I don't. I even clicked on some of the threads running at the moment....

 

One of the very common lines I read is "Nothing justifies infidelity. You were both in the same marriage & you didn't cheat!". Is that what you mean? The bs finds fault but some members give that reply?

[OneLov]

i disagree -- there are clear answers.

 

for example, it is not acceptable to lie in front of the court in order to protect a loved one. that's just ONE example of a very clear line. it's also not acceptable to lie about your affairs while you're having unprotected sex & end up giving your spouse HIV -- that can ALSO land you in jail, in many states.

 

so yeah... there are clear answers. it's just easier to act like there is none and well, EVERYBODY LIES, because it easies our own guilt + removes personal responsibility. we know very well where's the line. we just choose not to see. that's really it.

 

I'm sorry if I was not clear, I was limiting my comment to "white" lies. When does it cross a line? I was not inferring that "everyone lies, so deal with it." OP seemed to want a discussion, so I thought I would add something in an attempt to break up the "BS vs. OW" dynamic that is occuring in this thread. I was not referring to infidelity so I guess that is my bad since it is off topic, but I wanted to clear any misunderstanding that I was condoning or excusing lying in general.

Edited February 16, 2016 by OneLov

[dreamingoftigers]

I get the idea you are a fellow Canadian, so I will respond to you like this...sorry if i offend your politics:lmao:

 

Your post reminds me of the saying about how someone is an NDP supporter when they are young, a liberal supporter in middle age and a con supporter when they are a senior ( I can't speak to the veracity of that, as I'm a Green, but it does illustrate what you say).

 

At any given point, we are the sum total of all of our life's experiences and the knowledge we have gained..

 

LMAO, I'm actually a Green.

Been that way for 15 years, when I reached voting age.

 

So I guess that makes two of us :lmao:

[Whoknew30]

Our kids were hurt, not because we let them see what was happening, but because they could sense something was wrong. Even our five year old knew something was up.

 

They didn't see us fight. Heck, my husband was thousands of km away, and we only got to chat through email a few times and talk on the phone one or twice.

 

We all went for fmaily therapy after he got back, and one thing that the therapist said struck home. Kids are far more sensitive than many realize, and they carry the knowledge of hurt with them. It shows up later, in other ways.

 

Just my opinion, but most people who cheat love their kids dearly and would do anything for them. They never, ever want to hurt them, so they convince themselves that what they are doing is harmless.

 

Sometimes, it is harmless, but many times it's not. Is it really worth that risk?

 

Again, sorry if I sound like I am snapping back at all your posts. It's just that I find your point of view interesting and you articulate it well.

 

 

Is it worth the risk...that depends. I didn't feel risk when I cheated. I was at my wits end, so if my marriage ended, it would not have been devastating to me. My H & I at one point separated for about 6 months & even though my daughter said she was sad, we each talked & saw her daily to tell her no matter what, she came first & we loved her. We set no stipulations on which parent she had to be with at anytime or day. It was all up to her & she was pretty ok & happy through it...we never threw the "we did this to the children" card on each other. It was about us being parents to her & then working on us as a couple. She went to therapy & the therapist told us she was pretty well adjusted. She knew that even if we didn't make it, she was never going to miss out on having a family.

 

Cheating & or any life's "real" problems of course are difficult for kids, it's how a parent teaches them how to get through hard/trying times is what counts. We can't realistically promise anything more to kids, than our love as parents. Nothing is guaranteed, not even our marriages, which is evident by the 50% divorce rate.

[minimariah]

If you read (not in every situation, which I get but a lot) most BS state the marriage was absolutely fine & if they hear anything the WS about themselves it's usually, "you cheated & that's the only thing that matters".

 

i honestly don't see that.

 

many BSs are in shock when they 1st come here. when someone JUST finds out about the affair -- they aren't really able to objectively analyze themselves and their marriages. because - SHOCK. after some time and communication with their WH, they usually detect the problems.

 

at the end of the day - how are the affairs detected? by BS snooping. and why do the BS snoop? because they know something is wrong. so they clearly know that their marriage was far from happy. i opened up a thread about cruelty in the marriage during the affair and a lot of people wrote about cruelty PRIOR to the affair -- which means that the distance was there and they were aware of it but the WH didn't cooperate in solving it.

 

other thing - WH rarely communicates their needs before the affair, giving the impression that they really are happy with the marriage to the BS. so if the BS was told that the marriage was super & they're all happy - how can you expect them to know what was wrong? that's not to say that they had perfect marriages but a marriage can't be perfect either way -- it just means that the BS thought they had a good, happy marriage. because they weren't told otherwise + had a WS who acted that way.

 

i mean, there is a long way from "not perfect marriage" to "i had an affair".

Edited February 16, 2016 by minimariah

[Miss Clavel]

IMO, completely different things.

 

If you read (not in every situation, which I get but a lot) most BS state the marriage was absolutely fine & if they hear anything the WS about themselves it's usually, "you cheated & that's the only thing that matters". Now it is true that cheating is wrong but it's also true that cheating is a symptom of a bigger problem with in the person or the marriage. Can you find many post in this section by a BS that didn't have the "perfect" marriage before cheating? Which means there are a lot of of "perfect" BS out there...99.9% of all BS on here are the perfect spouse & had the perfect marriage? All I'm saying is yes a BS has the right to be upset & vent but be realistic about it. No one is perfect, no marriage is perfect & to state that even in a rant is just unrealistic to me.

 

 

and left to their own devices they may soldier on or they may have called it quits. in their own time. with the focus on what is best for them, their children, their family, their property and their finances.

 

get out before you get it in.

[Red123]

IMO, completely different things.

 

If you read (not in every situation, which I get but a lot) most BS state the marriage was absolutely fine & if they hear anything the WS about themselves it's usually, "you cheated & that's the only thing that matters". Now it is true that cheating is wrong but it's also true that cheating is a symptom of a bigger problem with in the person or the marriage. Can you find many post in this section by a BS that didn't have the "perfect" marriage before cheating? Which means there are a lot of of "perfect" BS out there...99.9% of all BS on here are the perfect spouse & had the perfect marriage? All I'm saying is yes a BS has the right to be upset & vent but be realistic about it. No one is perfect, no marriage is perfect & to state that even in a rant is just unrealistic to me.

 

You have obviously not read any of my threads. I did not have a perfect M before the A and I certainly never portray myself as perfect. Some people on here really were great spouses and had great marriages prior to their spouses A, and their posts are them being realistic about their situation. None of us on here can claim to know what others have experienced in their relationships.

[sandylee1]

I also believe that people in affairs harm their kids, they just don't want to admit it because it's too ugly to accept. My husband claimed they weren't affected until he couldn't deny it any more and they realized what he had risked. And being self centred little buggers that kids are, they unleashed on him. The mental abuse of their mother most definitely affected them. The tension was horrid.

 

I agree with this at times. When an A gets exposed ..The BS is usually devastated ....that devastation (especially for a BW) can in turn affect your interaction and caregiving. You aren't focused and your in a terrible way.

 

To the point that one BW had an accident on the school run after she found out about her H's affair. Others become ill and go on medication.. that affects the kids as well. Mom in a depressed state....too tired or distressed to do the normal stuff.

 

It's so much easier to say it doesn't affect the kids. Sometimes it actually does and many remorseful WSs recognise and admit that they didn't prioritise the kids during their A.

[elaine567]

I agree with this at times. When an A gets exposed ..The BS is usually devastated ....that devastation (especially for a BW) can in turn affect your interaction and caregiving. You aren't focused and your in a terrible way.

 

To the point that one BW had an accident on the school run after she found out about her H's affair. Others become ill and go on medication.. that affects the kids as well. Mom in a depressed state....too tired or distressed to do the normal stuff.

 

It's so much easier to say it doesn't affect the kids. Sometimes it actually does and many remorseful WSs recognise and admit that they didn't prioritise the kids during their A.

 

I agree, the state some BSs are in after d-day, depressed, devastated, even suicidal, and the lengths they go to to "save" their marriage, or the resentment they build up, for weeks, months, years afterwards... I guess leaves little room for "good" parenting.

[RRM321]

I think it is just as often the case that there are marriages which are perfectly fine, and that the affair is about the person who has one - not the state of the marriage.

 

A lot of cheating spouses have everything they want so, they simply move the goal post to include a paramour. It's not unusual to hear a cheater give nothing more for an excuse than: "because I could" or even the vain: "because I deserve to."

 

We tell ourselves that everyone has a right to be happy but, we take that to the extreme and even when we are happy - we think we deserve to be even happier. In a society motivated by scarcity, having it all no matter what the risk or cost now includes people as well.

[gettingstronger]

I agree, the state some BSs are in after d-day, depressed, devastated, even suicidal, and the lengths they go to to "save" their marriage, or the resentment they build up, for weeks, months, years afterwards... I guess leaves little room for "good" parenting.

 

 

 

Why concentrate on the behavior of the BS? As an educator for years- I can tell you divorce for any reason is hard on kids. Turmoil in the home even if it does not lead to divorce is picked up on easily by kids and shows up at school.

 

In our case, it was more my husband that showed the signs of our stress than I did. I think its a personality thing- although I wear my heart on my sleeve in most cases, when it comes to my kids, I am more in tune with what they pick up on. We have boys, so of course, the fact that their "hero and role model" fell from grace was a big deal. Couple that with Mom being a little boys first love and you have a real mess on their hands.

 

Do they know the details? No- Did we loop them in on our conversations-No

Did the air in the house change- you bet. Did they instinctively know it was Dad- you bet!

[ShatteredLady]

The hardest thing I've had to do is pretend to not be loosing my mind around my kids. I suddenly developed allergies to explain my watery swollen eyes. In hindsight I overcompensated with 'perky'.

 

My son is a highly sensitive my gifted 9 year old. I can pretend that his fathers A didn't effect him but it's clear that it did. He became incredibly protective of me. Wanting to carry things & open doors for me.

 

My little girl has become a 'Velcro baby'. Both are fighting over my attention & who can be most physically connected to me. The drama between them has increased ten fold. My son strikes out at anyone (dad, sister) who hurts me in the slightest. Even when I think I deserve an Oscar for my happy-go-lucky mummy performance.

 

Kids instinctively can feel the difference in the house.

 

Maybe if my H had been a better actor & given no indication that anything was going on...stayed completely 'normal' & I never imagined that he could possibly be having an A AND I NEVER found out...everything was hunky-dory it wouldn't of effected the kids.

 

All I know is the atmosphere in our home changed. I experienced slamming doors & grunting (no communication) for the first time. Unexplained tummy upsets. Being woken in the night for cuddles. Behavior issues at school etc.

 

It's nice to believe that children can exist in this lovely safe bubble but the insanity of adultery DOES effect them, it subtle ways, no matter how hard you try I believe.

[Cloudcuckoo]

Why concentrate on the behavior of the BS? As an educator for years- I can tell you divorce for any reason is hard on kids. Turmoil in the home even if it does not lead to divorce is picked up on easily by kids and shows up at school.

 

In our case, it was more my husband that showed the signs of our stress than I did. I think its a personality thing- although I wear my heart on my sleeve in most cases, when it comes to my kids, I am more in tune with what they pick up on. We have boys, so of course, the fact that their "hero and role model" fell from grace was a big deal. Couple that with Mom being a little boys first love and you have a real mess on their hands.

 

Do they know the details? No- Did we loop them in on our conversations-No

Did the air in the house change- you bet. Did they instinctively know it was Dad- you bet!

 

This is something in associate and identify with gettingstronger. All four of our children have been affected. All adults living away from home leaving us 'empty nesters' now, but at that time long ago our son was devastated, and told his Father he had no business 'shagging some cheap tart' as he so eloquently put it, behind his Mothers back, and that he had always thought him a hero, wanted to be like him, respected him as a Father and as a man, and looked up to him as as someone he aspired to.

 

I will never forget his words, and this was many moons ago:

 

"Now I see that I don't ever want to be like you. You were always a proud serviceman, wore your uniform with honour. Now look what you've done. Dishonoured yourself, your family and your integrity."

 

Children most certainly do suffer in the aftermath, and I was no different from so many. Completely broken, brought to my knees and incapable of functioning in a normal way with my children for a period.

 

With gentleness, loving support and frightening honesty, we all recovered, but the price for my husband's poor choices was almost too high to pay.

[waterwoman]

Young children are affected by anything that changes the parental relationship. That relationship is the air that they breathe. I am not sure that children care if it's deliriously happy or not but they need it to be stable and not hostile.

 

H's affair (and the run up to and aftermath of DDay) affected me and my relationship with H massively. I was unhappy and tearful for a long while. There were rows (never in front of the children but they must have heard) It also made him pretty unpleasant to the children for a while.

 

No-one told them details, no-one asked them to pick sides, but unless they were more emotionally unintelligent than I give them credit for, they knew and were affected.

 

Affairs hurt everyone - children are not exempt.

[Miss Clavel]

Since your post is directed for BS, my apology first, as I am not a BS; I am xOW.

 

I would only like to respond about the above.

 

As the OW, this was my first time in love--head over heels. Completely blinded, completely paralyzed by all senses. First time believing in something words couldn't explain or express. First time being touched, held, kissed and loved. First time seeing a man right in front of me, naked, open, and looking right back at me. First time seeing a man's eyes, and seeing an entire universe behind those eyes.

 

First time experiencing what my mind couldn't fathom. First time finding myself feeling there was something about this person I loved more than everything else in the world combined, yet I couldn't understand why. I did try to question what I felt, but I failed to make sense.

It was my first time realizing there's something about this person that made me see the secret woman inside me that I didn't know existed my whole life.

 

So NO I was not quite able to rationally and logically analyze his actions to think clearly.

It's very easy in retrospect to look back and critique my actions, but at the time ...

 

it was the first time I experienced LOVE. A total state of hypnosis, intoxication, and trance.

I'm not excusing my actions, but only trying to say sometimes our judgement is impaired by intense emotions, and yes then we do things that we regret and question for the rest of our lives.

 

don't look back, you are not going that way.

[Furious]

I agree, the state some BSs are in after d-day, depressed, devastated, even suicidal, and the lengths they go to to "save" their marriage, or the resentment they build up, for weeks, months, years afterwards... I guess leaves little room for "good" parenting.

 

 

I disagree, the majority of the BS's here at LS have made their parenting a priority, despite the heartache they are going through. There are hundreds of threads here that can attest to the effort to protect and care for their children's well being.

[Sub]

I disagree, the majority of the BS's here at LS have made their parenting a priority, despite the heartache they are going through. There are hundreds of threads here that can attest to the effort to protect and care for their children's well being.

 

Only speaking my for myself, but good parenting and time with our son was probably the thing that kept me from going off the deep end after D-Day.

[Midwestmissy]

Furious, it's true that bs try, but it's hard to pretend to be whole and strong when you are shattered. I tried, but my kids were confused. I glossed over and defended their dads absence, the untouched plate at the table, but we all knew it was a sham. It's really painful to remember that. I thought I was protecting them but it was just delaying the inevitable. We knew we were all being duped, it was just survivor mode kicking in. None of us knew where the hell he was for 6 mos and that was a first for us. I tried, but my mental state was shot, so I doubt I did a great job.

[Furious]

Furious, it's true that bs try, but it's hard to pretend to be whole and strong when you are shattered. I tried, but my kids were confused. I glossed over and defended their dads absence, the untouched plate at the table, but we all knew it was a sham. It's really painful to remember that. I thought I was protecting them but it was just delaying the inevitable. We knew we were all being duped, it was just survivor mode kicking in. None of us knew where the hell he was for 6 mos and that was a first for us. I tried, but my mental state was shot, so I doubt I did a great job.

 

 

But you were there, and the husband's empty place at the table spoke volumes to your children. You were there, you were not an empty place setting. Children are aware, children understand and see more than given credit for.

 

You did the best you could under the circumstances and you discredit your survivor mode and trying to keep it together for your kids sake.

 

I doubt your kids see you as not doing a great job, I imagine they see you as the constant parent, through the good and the bad.

[Whoknew30]

i honestly don't see that.

 

many BSs are in shock when they 1st come here. when someone JUST finds out about the affair -- they aren't really able to objectively analyze themselves and their marriages. because - SHOCK. after some time and communication with their WH, they usually detect the problems.

 

at the end of the day - how are the affairs detected? by BS snooping. and why do the BS snoop? because they know something is wrong. so they clearly know that their marriage was far from happy. i opened up a thread about cruelty in the marriage during the affair and a lot of people wrote about cruelty PRIOR to the affair -- which means that the distance was there and they were aware of it but the WH didn't cooperate in solving it.

 

other thing - WH rarely communicates their needs before the affair, giving the impression that they really are happy with the marriage to the BS. so if the BS was told that the marriage was super & they're all happy - how can you expect them to know what was wrong? that's not to say that they had perfect marriages but a marriage can't be perfect either way -- it just means that the BS thought they had a good, happy marriage. because they weren't told otherwise + had a WS who acted that way.

 

i mean, there is a long way from "not perfect marriage" to "i had an affair".

 

I think I'm being misunderstood...yes when it great to the point of weird behavior of course the BS knows something at that point or it could be told to them. There are always different circumstances which I understand. It's when I read that they had a "happy" marriage & then go to MC & find out there were years of problems (or WS had things going on with in themselves) & BS still thought things were happy, IMO that's a disconnect. My WH didn't want to talk about certain things but I knew there was a problem & tries my hardest to fix it. It finally took me havin am A for things to change but never was a so disconnected from my marriage not to see that there was a problem.

 

So I guess my point is, how can BS think their marriage was happy & not see the problems that came out in MC? One has to be told in a relationship something is off & I mean more than the cheating itself. Like I said m, that's a symptom of a bigger problem.

[Whoknew30]

You have obviously not read any of my threads. I did not have a perfect M before the A and I certainly never portray myself as perfect. Some people on here really were great spouses and had great marriages prior to their spouses A, and their posts are them being realistic about their situation. None of us on here can claim to know what others have experienced in their relationships.

 

Who said specifically you or when did I once say every situation is the same?

 

Also are most being realistic?

[Whoknew30]

Who said specifically you or when did I once say every situation is the same?

 

Also are most being realistic?

 

My meaning is, an A isn't the only "problem". To say everything was great besides A, is my point of a BS being realistic. If things were so great & wonderful with the marriage or the WS then why did the cheating happen? That's my point, the cheating itself isn't the only problem, always more to it & to say that to one's self, isn't that not getting to what the real issues of cheating was about?

[Whoknew30]

The hardest thing I've had to do is pretend to not be loosing my mind around my kids. I suddenly developed allergies to explain my watery swollen eyes. In hindsight I overcompensated with 'perky'.

 

My son is a highly sensitive my gifted 9 year old. I can pretend that his fathers A didn't effect him but it's clear that it did. He became incredibly protective of me. Wanting to carry things & open doors for me.

 

My little girl has become a 'Velcro baby'. Both are fighting over my attention & who can be most physically connected to me. The drama between them has increased ten fold. My son strikes out at anyone (dad, sister) who hurts me in the slightest. Even when I think I deserve an Oscar for my happy-go-lucky mummy performance.

 

Kids instinctively can feel the difference in the house.

 

Maybe if my H had been a better actor & given no indication that anything was going on...stayed completely 'normal' & I never imagined that he could possibly be having an A AND I NEVER found out...everything was hunky-dory it wouldn't of effected the kids.

 

All I know is the atmosphere in our home changed. I experienced slamming doors & grunting (no communication) for the first time. Unexplained tummy upsets. Being woken in the night for cuddles. Behavior issues at school etc.

 

It's nice to believe that children can exist in this lovely safe bubble but the insanity of adultery DOES effect them, it subtle ways, no matter how hard you try I believe.

 

 

I never had my child in a bubble. It's just it was told everyday even when she would say stop, that she's loved & bad things will & do happen but there are healthy & unhealthy ways of dealing with things. I don't know how other's deal with things but even through couple hell, we put her needs first. Was she sad at times, of course but her dad & I both would sit down & talk it through & she was not much older than 9. We took her to therapy, we let her own her feelings but in a healthy way for her. Will there be hard days, absolutely but you get through that day in the best way possible.

[Whoknew30]

I agree with this at times. When an A gets exposed ..The BS is usually devastated ....that devastation (especially for a BW) can in turn affect your interaction and caregiving. You aren't focused and your in a terrible way.

 

To the point that one BW had an accident on the school run after she found out about her H's affair. Others become ill and go on medication.. that affects the kids as well. Mom in a depressed state....too tired or distressed to do the normal stuff.

 

It's so much easier to say it doesn't affect the kids. Sometimes it actually does and many remorseful WSs recognise and admit that they didn't prioritise the kids during their A.

 

 

You hit it right on the head. I saw this from my mom & that's why I made a promise I wouldn't be that way infront of my kids & even used it as a teaching opportunity. Bad things are going to happen (non me of us get out of life without something bad) but how you handle it, is such an the most important part of any problem.