What does a frustrated old codger do?

[dichotomy]

ummm. I'm in that age group and I beg to differ. If anything I'm more into it than when the kids were young and took up all my time and energy. plus, no more worries about getting pregnant. It is kinda hard for us old gals to find a real stud the same age though (because of ED, as mentioned). I'm so happy I found me one!

 

He worries that I'll leave him if one day he can no longer perform. I'm not sure what I would do. I know he has already shown me he can be really good at other methods of satisfying those needs...

 

 

That's great. Really sounds like you are blessed in your current relationship.

 

I also have a couple of guys I know 50+ divorced, who have had hits and misses in the dating world as far as sex, or even finding a long term stable relationship. Some go through both hot and really dry spells, but the emotional ups and downs of various GF have taken a toll on them. But thats just my small sample of guys I talk to.

 

I encourage OP if he knows of divorced guys his age bracket around him - to ask and talk about what their sex - and love - life is like.

 

Also as you bring up ED and other issues maybe awaiting OP himself.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have not read the full thread yet.

 

However, let's put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say you had erectile dysfunction. Would you be okay with your wife giving up on your marriage.

 

If the OP had ED, he'd be getting almost universal advice to pursue medical, pharmaceutical and/or procedural options to address the issue.

 

Don't think he'd find much support for a position based on "It is what it is".

 

Your analogy doesn't hold up...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soleilesquire]

Deciding to leave a withholding spouse is not really about "just be glad for what you got" or "you'd probably be sleeping alone anyway."

 

It is about the person who promised to love, honor, and cherish you CHOOSING to look at your legitimate intimate needs and say, "eh, nah, tough luck."

 

It is about deciding whether or not to continue to live with the most intimate of rejections and neglect.

 

I would wager that anyone who tells a sex-starved man or woman to "be glad they are nice" or "You'd probably not have sex single either" hasn't experienced years of starvation.

 

Starving because I'm in a desert is one thing. Starving in a kitchen where the pantry is stocked but someone has just chosen to lock the door is another animal altogether.

[basil67]

I too say it's time to lay the cards on the table.

 

Menopause doesn't lat 20 years. This is pure neglect.

 

You can't be serious! Symptoms such as moodiness and hot flashes may not last 20 years, but menopause is permanent. Yes, we can help matters with HRT, lube and sheer determination but our hormones won't magically start up again once menopause hits.

[BettyDraper]

I have not read the full thread yet.

 

However, let's put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say you had erectile dysfunction. Would you be okay with your wife giving up on your marriage.

 

I had an affair because my wife had gone off sex. It was a disaster. I also realized that okay, so I could attract a woman 21 years younger, but my wife is a much better person. She is my partner and mate.

 

You say no one ever said they had too much sex on the deathbed. Well, I am willing to wager that there are lot of people on their deathbed who left a loyal wife, later regretted it and finally realized that there was more to a marriage than SEX.

 

Also you talk about having to deal with a holy terror child. If you divorce your wife to marry a younger woman to have more sex. What if she gets pregnant.

 

What if YOU get erectile dysfunction and she divorces you or cheats on you and throws your own words about sex back into your face.

 

Personally, after my affair, I now realize that I put far to much emphasis on sex in my marriage and never focused on all the other positives.

 

I also now realize that I would NEVER want to be married to someone like my OW. She gave me all sorts of personal physical details about her husband and had already had three affairs before I took the bait, and one after we broke up.

 

Her husband was the same age as she, but she was NOT interested in him sexually and was always on the prowl for someone better looking and wealthier than he.

 

Personally, I am now glad that my wife is not so sexually focused.

 

We live in a sex obsessed society. That does make things challenging. But really, when push comes to shove, I am glad my wife is not always thinking about sex and other men.

 

Think about it.

 

There is more to a marriage than sex. However, when there is no sex it becomes a barometer for the rest of the marriage. Nobody gets married to be celibate. A wife who thinks about sex often isn't automatically a woman who will be unfaithful either. I say this because of your "I'm glad my wife is not always thinking about sex" comment.

 

I won't live in a sexless marriage because I know that I didn't get married just to have a roommate.

[Liam1]

If the OP had ED, he'd be getting almost universal advice to pursue medical, pharmaceutical and/or procedural options to address the issue.

 

Don't think he'd find much support for a position based on "It is what it is".

 

Your analogy doesn't hold up...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Erectile dysfunction drugs do not work on everyone. Also, not everyone is physically healthy enough to take them.

 

I know many men who have it and their wives do not complain or ask the men to seek treatment.

 

Women, at least the marrying kind, are more evolved than men.

[Liam1]

There is more to life than food. But if you never have anything to eat then food becomes pretty important.....

 

Food is required for survival.

 

Sex is not.

 

In fact being promiscuous can lead to various STDs some of which cause cancers and others that can kill you.

[Mr. Lucky]

Erectile dysfunction drugs do not work on everyone. Also, not everyone is physically healthy enough to take them.

 

I know many men who have it and their wives do not complain or ask the men to seek treatment.

 

Women, at least the marrying kind, are more evolved than men.

 

One finds out whether or not ED drugs work by trying them. Some effort is involved, one shows some validation for a partner's concerns by starting the process. The OP's wife has done nothing except tell him 'forget it'.

 

Presupposing a negative outcome rarely solves a problem. Her indifference is as much an issue for him as the lack of sex.

 

Maybe we have different understandings of "evolved". To me, it's not minimizing something important to my spouse...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Liam1]

One finds out whether or not ED drugs work by trying them. Some effort is involved, one shows some validation for a partner's concerns by starting the process. The OP's wife has done nothing except tell him 'forget it'.

 

Presupposing a negative outcome rarely solves a problem. Her indifference is as much an issue for him as the lack of sex.

 

Maybe we have different understandings of "evolved". To me, it's not minimizing something important to my spouse...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

As mentioned, not all men are healthy enough to get a legal prescription for ED drugs. They have many side effects. So trying it may not even be an option for some men.

 

Many women may have issues with pain or dryness. Many are embarrassed to discuss it. Also, maybe a woman has no desire for sex because her hormones are out of whack.

 

Sometimes those issues can be fixed. Sometimes not.

 

Then, too, women are often not interested in sex because the man does not take the time to engage in foreplay that can lubricate as well as enable her to orgasm.

 

Yes, these things should be discussed, but maybe some women do not want to insult their husband's ego by saying: "Honey, I never have an orgasm because you are a wham bam sort of guy and that's why I avoid sex."

 

So they fake orgasms to please their man.

 

Without an orgasm why would anyone be interested in sex. They can just cuddle.

 

As for women being more evolved. I do think the higher percentage of women are less sex focused and more focused on the marriage as whole.

 

Personally, I find that a much higher percentage of woman are willing to endure sexless marriage, if the husband is ill and has many other merits that make him a keeper.

 

But maybe we are different in our thinking and that is okay.

 

One thing my affair taught me, personally, is that I would rather be married to my wife without sex, than married to my OW with lots of sex.

 

The sex in the affair was good, but there were and are so many other negative things about the OW's personality that the sex quickly became less enjoyable.

 

The bottom line, though is this guy needs to get a counselor to help her communicate better with him and he with her.

 

Anyway my point is that if sex is that important to him, and it outweighs the other merits of an honest loyal relationship with his wife, than perhaps he should divorce rather than have affair. I am not even sure he is thinking of having an affair, but some of the things he wrote have red flags in it.

 

If he divorces both people can find someone who better suits their temperament and desires with far less damage than nuking their marriage with lies and deception.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Liam1

[soleilesquire]

Food is required for survival.

 

Sex is not.

 

In fact being promiscuous can lead to various STDs some of which cause cancers and others that can kill you.

 

I understand why you have chosen this view, but desiring sex with your spouse is NOT promiscuous. Shaming people who need physical intimacy and implying we are not "evolved" is rude and unproductive. The OP's frustration over TWENTY YEARS of refusal is valid.

[BettyDraper]

Food is required for survival.

 

Sex is not.

 

In fact being promiscuous can lead to various STDs some of which cause cancers and others that can kill you.

 

So wanting sex within marriage makes someone promiscuous? You do know that it only takes ONE partner to contract an STI right?

 

Some of your ideas about sexuality are quite limiting and strange.

[soleilesquire]

So wanting sex within marriage makes someone promiscuous? You do know that it only takes ONE partner to contract an STI right?

 

Some of your ideas about sexuality are quite limiting and strange.

 

Sometimes minimizing and shaming the need for sexual intimacy is the only way to cope in a sexless marriage. Unfortunately, it rarely works long term.

[Liam1]

So wanting sex within marriage makes someone promiscuous? You do know that it only takes ONE partner to contract an STI right?

 

Some of your ideas about sexuality are quite limiting and strange.

 

No sex in a marriage is not promiscuous. I think you know what I meant and are choosing to be facetious. having an affair is promiscuous.

 

My point is this guy sounds as if he is going down that path. Maybe I am wrong.

 

But if he is my advice is to try counseling first to see if he can fix the sex issue and if not he needs to ask for a divorce rather than cheat to get sex.

 

Lastly, Since my affair, sex is at the bottom of my list for what makes for a good marriage.

 

I am grateful that my wife is loyal and loving and her low sex drive, is the least of my concerns at this point. Companionate love is more valuable to me.

 

I saw how the OW was emasculating her husband complaining about how she was no longer physically attracted to him and only stayed with him because he earned a lot of money.

 

I felt sorry for her husband and was glad I was not married to her.

 

As people age, the majority both male and female find that their sex drive diminishes. Not all, but a large percentage.

 

I am just trying to warn this guy that an affair is not the answer. A divorce, if he truly feels his wife has no merit other than for sex, is the honorable option.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Liam1
typo

[William]

Promiscuous:

 

having or characterized by many transient sexual relationships.

"she's a wild, promiscuous girl"

 

 

I went back and read the starting post, as moderation always encourages members to do when responding to threads, and saw no evidence of any extra-marital sexual activities, much less numerous ones, so let's consider the promiscuous issue resolved and get back to the marriage at hand and what a frustrated old codger should do. Thanks!

[soleilesquire]

A divorce, if he truly feels his wife has no merit other than for sex, is the honorable option.

 

That you do not see the judgmental and shaming aspect of a remark like this is disturbing.

 

A marriage is a complex relationship, and one of THE things that sets a marriage apart from every other relationship is the intimacy. It is one thing that NO ONE except your spouse can morally do. If your wife is a slob, you can hire a maid. If your spouse is not conversational, you can have same sex friends to chat with.

 

To withhold from your spouse the most intimate act and an act that only YOU can provide is cruel and selfish. Someone who feels great pain over that is NOT viewing their spouse as only good for sex.

[Just a Guy]

Those who are saying that menopause affects a woman's libido are right but there is a possible remedy in HRT treatment. Even a simple thing such as a vaginal gel containing a derivative of estrogen results in eliminating vaginal dryness and increasing a woman's libido. I guess where there's a will there's a way. Just my bit to add to the discussion.

[dichotomy]

About hormones, ED, Menapause, health, etc... my view is that sex is much more than PIV.

 

My personal view (and its just me) if I was married to a woman who had sexual needs - and I say got prostate cancer and lost my ability to be erect - or even if I got confined to a wheel chair - well my hands, mouth, toys, mind, and heart would be made available to my wife if she wanted to have some sexual intimacy. Again for me - I like to please my partners and its not always about me getting off. Not everyone feels this way. Some can't engage in sex if they themselves are not in the mood to enjoy it for their own body.

[elaine567]

Those who are saying that menopause affects a woman's libido are right but there is a possible remedy in HRT treatment. Even a simple thing such as a vaginal gel containing a derivative of estrogen results in eliminating vaginal dryness and increasing a woman's libido. I guess where there's a will there's a way. Just my bit to add to the discussion.

 

Thing is, I am sure the OPs wife is also in her 60's and is now 10-15 years past the menopause, so I doubt you could find a doctor willing to prescribe HRT starting now.

But yes cream and lubricants would help the pain that is often associated with post menopausal sex* but they would not help her libido.

 

*A survey suggests that 84% of menopausal women find sex painful. In the survey, nearly 70% said their relationships had suffered as a result.

Sex after the menopause - Live Well - NHS Choices

[Liam1]

 

To withhold from your spouse the most intimate act and an act that only YOU can provide is cruel and selfish. Someone who feels great pain over that is NOT viewing their spouse as only good for sex.

 

You are ASSUMING, she is withholding.

 

Perhaps she has a physical reason, or as mentioned in my other post, perhaps she never orgasms.

 

That is why I suggested counseling so the two can communicate the real issues with guidance.

[Mr. Lucky]

Perhaps she has a physical reason, or as mentioned in my other post, perhaps she never orgasms.

 

Clearly the path you've taken has led you to a point where you love your wife .

 

If you never orgasmed and yet she had clearly expressed sexual wants and needs, would you give up on sex and deny her that connection?

 

If PIV sex was painful for you, same question - would you give up on sex and deny her that connection?

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

Unfortunately, for some women of the OP's generation, PIV sex *is* sex and, if not interested/unable, then there is no alternative.

 

Getting older, I've imagined penis not working and, heck, that's one tool in a big toolbox of expressing sexual love and connection; however, that occurs because of lack of inhibitions about expressing love through sex.

 

Such of course presumes one's partner does love one and traditionally expressed love through sexual contact.

 

IMO, if the love is gone, I'd get out. Life is short. If it's there, plenty of middle ground in the affection and sex areas, respecting both spouses and their personal milieu.

[soleilesquire]

You are ASSUMING, she is withholding.

 

Perhaps she has a physical reason, or as mentioned in my other post, perhaps she never orgasms.

 

That is why I suggested counseling so the two can communicate the real issues with guidance.

 

No, if one reads the posts, she has not had sex with her husband in 20 years. Even if she had a horrible rare condition where her lady parts disappeared, she could STILL meet his needs through other means, and she will not do so.

 

I didn't have an orgasm the first dozen years of my marriage. That has nothing to do with being willing to have sex.

 

Again, I understand that you have chosen to deal with your lack of sex in marriage by sort of...demonizing the need for sex. But that is not the path this man wants to take.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting intimacy with your spouse, and there is no excuse for not meeting that need for 20 years.

[basil67]

Those who are saying that menopause affects a woman's libido are right but there is a possible remedy in HRT treatment. Even a simple thing such as a vaginal gel containing a derivative of estrogen results in eliminating vaginal dryness and increasing a woman's libido. I guess where there's a will there's a way. Just my bit to add to the discussion.

 

You make it sound so simple. But let this menopausal woman tell you that it's far from simple. And yes, I've spent lots of time working with my Dr to try and boost my libido.

[soleilesquire]

Actually, so years without sex is not a libido problem.

 

There are things I am often not inspired and in the mood to do, but because I care about someone, I do them. A woman who cares about her husband's needs will reach out and touch him. If intercourse hurts, she will offer other forms of intimacy.

 

When a woman says, "I'm in menopause, I have no drive, tough luck," she IS being selfish.

[Just a Guy]

Basil thanks for your response to my post. Quite frankly I thought you were a gent. My mistake. Actually I wrote that because I and my wife were advised to use it after my wife complained of vaginal dryness and also a lot of discomfort during and after sex. It worked for us but apart from my personal experience I don't really know much about the problems faced by menopausal women. I just thought I would add my bit to the discussion to keep things going. Take my post lightly.