What does a frustrated old codger do?

[carhill]

From reading the OP's posts and presuming he lives in Australia from his location, as of 2012 the average male lifespan in Australia was 82.12 years. Hence, if the OP is mid-sixties, appearing to be so from his postings, he has another 15-20 years of life expectancy if he is an average Aussie male. I guess the question is does he want to enjoy the same level of sexual intimacy for the next 15-20 years as he has for the last 15-20 years. It appears his answer is 'no'. He appears to be physically healthy and not demented. IME, not too far behind him, when we start counting down to the average life expectancy and see our friends either dying or getting ill, time gains a different meaning; how we view it, how we spend it, priorities, all that stuff. I was talking with a female friend yesterday who related that her 60 yo father has pancreatic cancer, the same specific kind of it that killed Steve Jobs (Apple Computer). He's only 3-4 years older than me. Steve was my age when he died.

 

IMO, I wouldn't dawdle. If there's no middle ground, well, a lot of older people get divorced too. Just because they're old doesn't mean marriage has to be a life sentence any more than it is for a younger person.

[Liam1]

[quote=carhill;

 

IMO, I wouldn't dawdle. If there's no middle ground, well, a lot of older people get divorced too. Just because they're old doesn't mean marriage has to be a life sentence any more than it is for a younger person.

 

Well, his wife already offered him a trial separation.

 

So, she is giving him an out.

 

Why hasn't he taken it???????

 

Well, maybe because he knows deep down that there is more to life and marriage than an orgasm.

[carhill]

I'd go right for divorce. No sense in messing with separations. As our MC, correctly IMO, opined, people separate to get divorced.

[Liam1]

I'd go right for divorce. No sense in messing with separations. As our MC, correctly IMO, opined, people separate to get divorced.

 

Some countries and US states require a trial separation in order to secure a divorce.

 

I agree, though, when someone asks for a trial separation it means they don't care about a divorce.

 

IMO, his wife may be at her wits end and wants him to be the bad guy who initiates the divorce.

 

Yes, the AVERAGE life span in Australia is PROJECTED to be in the 80s. But averages are.......well averages.

 

An awful lot of people die in their 50s.

 

My grandfather lived to be 98 but my dad died suddenly at 55. He was healthy as a horse and no one saw it coming.

 

My mother died at 52. So much for averages.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Liam1

[carhill]

Yeah, we have something like that here in Cali, called a 'cooling off period', which lasts a minimum of six months. We tried that living apart separation thing, fortunately having enough houses to easily do it, and I found the MC to be spot in in his comments. It's easy to move on and forget about the marital issues when not in the milieu, even meeting weekly for MC and other times as appropriate.

 

Since the OP and his wife have apparently been rug-sweeping this issue for many years, IMO if they separated domiciles, that rug-sweeping would continue and they'd be married living separately. If the OP wants that, and enjoying other relations, that's definitely one solution. I recall a stateside notable funnyman and actor, Jack Klugman, doing just that and he didn't marry his live-in companion until his wife, whom he had separated from decades ago, died. It worked for them.

[elaine567]

He doesn't want a divorce or a trial separation and neither does she.

He just wants sex with his wife and she is now offering 2 nights a week.

See #81

[soleilesquire]

I think if a person has a long history with a spouse and kids and the marriage is good, sex should be at the bottom of the list.

 

With respect, this is not your judgement to make for others. It is actually quite arrogant to presume that anyone who does not feel this way is not "evolved" or is messed up in some way.

 

This man wants to share intimacy with his wife. There is no shame in that. It does not make him a freak. And he is not at death's door.

 

Shaming someone for their needs is almost never helpful.

 

And I suspect you adpoter this attitude as a coping mechanism for your own pre-A sexless issues.

[Gigi2015]

With respect, this is not your judgement to make for others. It is actually quite arrogant to presume that anyone who does not feel this way is not "evolved" or is messed up in some way.

 

This man wants to share intimacy with his wife. There is no shame in that. It does not make him a freak. And he is not at death's door.

 

Shaming someone for their needs is almost never helpful.

 

And I suspect you adpoter this attitude as a coping mechanism for your own pre-A sexless issues.

 

 

Yeah, ok...he mentioned sex not intimacy. Still---many spouses would want for sex to be a particular way. So even if she allows it , it could still be dissatisfying as a result of not enough enthusiasm, not enough variety, not enough of a round booty...whatever. Still..they could both try and maybe , who knows, if given encouragement she could feel sexy again and feel like she can still evoke passion in her mate. Many women give up when they feel as simply a masturbating machine.

[soleilesquire]

Yeah, ok...he mentioned sex not intimacy. Still---many spouses would want for sex to be a particular way. So even if she allows it , it could still be dissatisfying as a result of not enough enthusiasm, not enough variety, not enough of a round booty...whatever. Still..they could both try and maybe , who knows, if given encouragement she could feel sexy again and feel like she can still evoke passion in her mate. Many women give up when they feel as simply a madturbating machine.

 

Why is sex the only need in marriage that people think a person has to "earn"?

 

Honestly, if a spouse has taken sex off the table, I don't think it;s the starving spouse who should have to broach the topic of divorce. I think the withholding spouse should at least have enough character to set the starving spouse free.

[Gigi2015]

Why is sex the only need in marriage that people think a person has to "earn"?

 

Honestly, if a spouse has taken sex off the table, I don't think it;s the starving spouse who should have to broach the topic of divorce. I think the withholding spouse should at least have enough character to se. Does his business and gets off of her...no intimacy, no kissing, etc. he starving spouse free.

 

 

Yes, true but--why is it no worse that a spouse doesn't engage his partner sexually and uses her as a masturbating machine....no kissing, no foreplay...expects her to simply open her legs and he's done in two minutes. She may feel as a masturbating machine....she may have approached the subject for years...

[xxoo]

Why is sex the only need in marriage that people think a person has to "earn"?

 

Honestly, if a spouse has taken sex off the table, I don't think it;s the starving spouse who should have to broach the topic of divorce. I think the withholding spouse should at least have enough character to set the starving spouse free.

 

Life isn't this simple. Why did sex leave in the first place? What other needs were possibly unmet leading to sex desire disappearing?

 

Sex may be a personal need (it is not a need for the wife in this case), but it is not a marital obligation. Each individual may decide if he or she finds the marriage satisfying or unsatisfying.

 

I am 100% in favor of sexual marriage and hope to be sexually active with my husband until old age, but I do not consider it his obligation to have sex with me. I'd hate him to have sex with me out of obligation, anyway.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Life isn't this simple. Why did sex leave in the first place? What other needs were possibly unmet leading to sex desire disappearing?

 

Sex may be a personal need (it is not a need for the wife in this case), but it is not a marital obligation. Each individual may decide if he or she finds the marriage satisfying or unsatisfying.

 

I am 100% in favor of sexual marriage and hope to be sexually active with my husband until old age, but I do not consider it his obligation to have sex with me. I'd hate him to have sex with me out of obligation, anyway.

 

Good point xxoo. . . why did the sex disappear?

 

Obligatory sex sucks. . . I have zero interest in it. I would rather get turned down (rejected, yes!) for sex most of the time, but when we do have it, we are both into it and wanting to participate, engage, enjoy, etc. I am sure there are many men who might want sex as often as their heart desires - no thanks - NOT IF SHE'S NOT TOTALLY INTO IT! Ideally, its happen often and both parties are really into it.

 

For me, it's highly important that she climax. . . Not quite as important that she's into it, but almost. Not that I need to put undue pressure on her that she must climax - but if (other than perhaps once in a blue moon) there is no desire to climax, or actually a level of disconnection or dis-interest in climax that would concern me.

[Liam1]

Yes, true but--why is it no worse that a spouse doesn't engage his partner sexually and uses her as a masturbating machine....no kissing, no foreplay...expects her to simply open her legs and he's done in two minutes. She may feel as a masturbating machine....she may have approached the subject for years...

 

Exactly Gigi:

 

Any experienced marriage counselor will tell you that when they hear that one partner is avoiding sex, there is typically a reason that has to do with the partner who is complaining about no sex.

 

Obviously Soleil is either presently having a problem being "sex starved" or had one and maybe she bullied her husband into more sex by complaining about it rather than putting in energy to find out WHY he was not interested in sex with her.

 

Well, I predict she will soon learn that this type of fix is a short fix.

 

With men, IMO, who no longer want sex with their wives, IMO, the wife might be too sexually demanding and emasculates the husband eventually.

 

My affair partner's constant focus on sex was a huge turn off to me.

 

To borrow Soleil's words, my affair partner was a "horn dog."

 

It was what initially attracted her to me, but it was quickly a turn off that turned my stomach.

 

It was like eating too much chocolate cake. When it's rationed it tastes good to get a lot of eat, but when you can have all you want 24/7, it quickly turns your stomach.

 

My wife an I are back on track sexually, but truly, I am glad she is not like Soleil. Although I am sure their are some men who might like Soleil's focus on sex

[soleilesquire]

Yes, true but--why is it no worse that a spouse doesn't engage his partner sexually and uses her as a masturbating machine....no kissing, no foreplay...expects her to simply open her legs and he's done in two minutes. She may feel as a masturbating machine....she may have approached the subject for years...

 

Has the OP indicated that he just wants his wife to open her legs, or are we just hypothesizing?

[Gigi2015]

Has the OP indicated that he just wants his wife to open her legs, or are we just hypothesizing?

 

 

We'll have to let him respond to that. A lady that's having a good time,feels sexy and loved hardly ever turns her man down. Usually the issue is hormonal or psychological....(apparently usually psychological). If hormonal, many ladies look for help...if not they don't bother if they've tried time and time again to explain what they need. It's usually not plain selfishness. I'd have to ask the OP what he did to entice his lady, to repair the damage, to re-connect....etc. none easy answers. Most importantly the OP must be true to himself.

[carhill]

The OP wrote in the opening post:

 

She acknowledges the problem but all I get is a shrug of the shoulders & a statement that "It is what it is. The rest of it makes up for that."

 

She apparently didn't outline a litany of complaints, rather, by his account, seems rather satisfied with the rest of the marriage, so not connecting any marital strife to the lack of sexual involvement.

 

In a later post, he quotes her as stating:

 

Her: That's obvious. My libido fell off a cliff & I've gone off having sex.

 

Again, no complaints about the marriage or him not meeting her needs or wants.

 

In the same post, she introduces the idea of a trial separation:

 

Her: OK, how about a trial separation.

 

Still no complaints about the marriage. Is OP a perfect husband? Nah, I doubt it. None of us are perfect. Whatever is going on, it's sufficient for his spouse to suggest a trial separation. This is one situation where IMO it's less ambiguous and healthier to get both of them in front of a counselor and get both sides out in the open since we're only reading one perspective here and we generally bias content to suit our own agenda.

[Liam1]

The Whatever is going on, it's sufficient for his spouse to suggest a trial separation. This is one situation where IMO it's less ambiguous and healthier to get both of them in front of a counselor and get both sides out in the open since we're only reading one perspective here and we generally bias content to suit our own agenda.

 

Yes. I agree. They need a counselor to facilitate discussion. OP's wife seems to be A-Okay with a separation.

 

The fact that she has not blamed him for why her libido has gone off the cliff does not prove she has no complaints about him. Maybe she is too shy to talk about her specific complaints.

 

The OP does not seem to want a separation.

 

So, I think he is skating on thin ice here by issuing ultimatums

[Dolfin80]

From reading the OP's posts and presuming he lives in Australia from his location, as of 2012 the average male lifespan in Australia was 82.12 years. Hence, if the OP is mid-sixties, appearing to be so from his postings, he has another 15-20 years of life expectancy if he is an average Aussie male. I guess the question is does he want to enjoy the same level of sexual intimacy for the next 15-20 years as he has for the last 15-20 years. It appears his answer is 'no'. He appears to be physically healthy and not demented. IME, not too far behind him, when we start counting down to the average life expectancy and see our friends either dying or getting ill, time gains a different meaning; how we view it, how we spend it, priorities, all that stuff. I was talking with a female friend yesterday who related that her 60 yo father has pancreatic cancer, the same specific kind of it that killed Steve Jobs (Apple Computer). He's only 3-4 years older than me. Steve was my age when he died.

 

IMO, I wouldn't dawdle. If there's no middle ground, well, a lot of older people get divorced too. Just because they're old doesn't mean marriage has to be a life sentence any more than it is for a younger person.

 

I'm Australian. I don't know anyone here who has lived to 82. They usually die off in there 60s, esp blue collar workers as their bodies are stuffed from working in 40 degree heat. My dad is in his 60s, he doesn't have many of his life long friends left as they have all died.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dolfin80

[waterwoman]

The op has found a promising compromise. He seems hopeful. His wife sounds willing. Why are you all carrying on the argument about who's the most selfish and unreasonable? Why does it all have to be all the fault of one side or the other? More projection than a multi-screen cinema!!

[Gigi2015]

The op has found a promising compromise. He seems hopeful. His wife sounds willing. Why are you all carrying on the argument about who's the most selfish and unreasonable? Why does it all have to be all the fault of one side or the other? More projection than a multi-screen cinema!!

 

I think the contemplation doesn't lie into blame shifting or projection. I think it's merely a flip side contemplation. Since the squeaky wheel always gets the oil...it might be interesting to contemplate why the wheel is squeaking to begin with....